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Author Topic: Petition against an Angostura ad  (Read 3046 times)

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Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Petition against an Angostura ad
« on: November 28, 2012, 02:30:15 PM »
Please sign the petition against this ad by Angostura Limited:

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/angostura-limited-trinidad-tobago-remove-offensive-ad

I would also appreciate it if you copied and pasted this to your friends.

thank you,
QM

Offline Andre

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 03:29:56 PM »
me eh see nothing wrong with the ad.

i find de fella look like a bulla.

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 03:36:55 PM »
Help me out, what wrong with the ad?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 03:45:20 PM by D.H.W »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 03:58:13 PM »
I really don't see anything wrong with the ad either... to say that he is 'menacing' is subject to debate, and I can't see what he's doing in the lower image to say that he's "pulling" on her arm, or certainly doing so in a manner that is suggestive of date rape.

Offline dinho

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 04:00:00 PM »
Queen... You need to post the proper picture of the ad..

The title of the ad reads - "Avoid the Friend zone.. Buy her a real drink"

Better it had read, "Angostura Single Barrel... The Rapist's blend"

         

Offline Bakes

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 04:40:33 PM »
Even if that is the caption of the ad, nothing in that is suggestive of date rape... all it's saying is "don't buy her a drink that might communicate to her that yuh's ah sorf man".  It says nothing about the potential effect of the drink on her or it's usefulness in overcoming her will.

Offline Toppa

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 05:11:51 PM »
I need to see the full ad...
www.westindiantube.com

Check it out - it real bad!

Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 06:24:04 PM »
Angostura contacted me directly this evening and also put a note on their facebook page.
They are pulling the ad.
Thank you for your time on this!

https://www.facebook.com/AngosturaLimited
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:37:22 PM by Queen Macoomeh »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 07:46:14 PM »
Dahis quick work ... the apparent problem here (especially now that my curiosity has been stimulated) is that reproducing the thing thought to be offensive would defeat QM's purpose of shutting down the ad.

I guess folks keep on moving ... nothing to see here?!
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 08:07:55 PM »
what just happen here?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 11:55:04 AM by D.H.W »
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 08:46:02 PM »
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2012, 08:59:56 PM »
Dahis quick work ... the apparent problem here (especially now that my curiosity has been stimulated) is that reproducing the thing thought to be offensive would defeat QM's purpose of shutting down the ad.

I guess folks keep on moving ... nothing to see here?!

Perhaps, but part of the calculation is that folks need to be aware of what they signing up in support of.  In principle I'm supportive of any efforts to reduce the incident of date/rape and to spread awareness of the issue... just didn't have enough in this instance to say.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2012, 10:37:29 PM »
Yeah, agreed.

So, QM how did you pull it off for the ones that didn't see it?

Word has it that that Robert Wong fella is a decent bloke ... so I doubt it took much hand-wrangling at Angostura.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 06:41:34 AM »
Good morning gentlemen,
Briefly: Yesterday, someone on my facebook newsfeed, posted an image of a newspaper ad promoting one of Angostura's new products.
I had no previous truck with Angostura. I have been merry a time or two with their offerings. Not being in T&T, I seldom see their ads so I do not know what went before.
This ad however, sent my mother/wife/woman hackles up but I cannot take credit for their decision. Others have written to/in the T&T newspapers and on blogs. I also think they too got some sense of the lack of judgment their ad revealed.
The ad implied that if "she" puts you in the "friend zone", offer her this single barrel drink and you can avoid the "friend zone" altogether. The verbiage was wrong, the image/posture of the young man was wrong.
I wrote to Mr. Wong and the Angostura Limited senior executive and I started a petition. The signatures were adding up but before we even hit 50, I got an email from a Ricardo Bideshi, saying that given the response to this particular ad, they have decided to remove it.
That remains to be seen.

I agree with Bakes that you should never sign or join anything without first knowing the whys and whos and whats. Your actions must be predicated on your beliefs and purposes. In the petition, I provided the image and an explanation and asked for a weigh in - or not.
Not everyone agrees of course. I can't argue with them.
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Offline Dutty

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 07:01:22 AM »
what just happened here?

ah tink I jus learn if macomeh jump on she horse and come ridin fuh yuh, is bess yuh jus lie dong and hog tie yuhself
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Offline Rastaman

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 07:06:11 AM »
what just happened here?

ah tink I jus learn if macomeh jump on she horse and come ridin fuh yuh, is bess yuh jus lie dong and hog tie yuhself
And put up a sign saying "Look me here"  :rotfl:

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 07:25:03 AM »

Offline Dutty

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 07:33:21 AM »
lard!!!!....if it was a shot of couple on the billboard only,,, the whole ad would be different
whoever approve the ominous giant rapist tusty-man glare, go lorse dey wukk.

moreover, the male model go get pong from he pardners for life
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2012, 07:36:45 AM »
Angostura contacted me directly this evening and also put a note on their facebook page.
They are pulling the ad.
Thank you for your time on this!

https://www.facebook.com/AngosturaLimited

You see what happens when you reach celebrity status. Power to the Queenie!!!!! ;D ;D

Offline soccerman

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 09:54:10 AM »
what just happened here?

ah tink I jus learn if macomeh jump on she horse and come ridin fuh yuh, is bess yuh jus lie dong and hog tie yuhself
And put up a sign saying "Look me here"  :rotfl:
:rotfl:

Offline ProudTrinbagonian

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »
Guess next time, let her buy her own drink.

I feel this ad would have been better if the caption read:
"Avoid the Friend Zone,
Offer him a real drink"

because in the small bottom picture, he's looking giddy and she's the one in control.
whey boy!

Offline Bakes

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 03:12:35 PM »
I at a loss... me eh see him pulling she, both ah dem holding de glass, she caressing de back ah he head  ???  Woman does put man in friend zone when they doh see them as romance material... the ad kinda saying to me "this is a macho drink, offer she ah macho drink and avoid the friend zone".  Others apparently seeing "ply she wid liquor and yuh could score".


Ah well, what's done is done... lesson learned fuh Angostura hopefully.  Agree that the larger image seems superfluous at best.  Not sure what it really adds to the message.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 03:14:09 PM »
Its a shitty ad but I don't think it encourages rape.

Offline ProudTrinbagonian

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2012, 03:16:12 PM »
I agree.

Just goes to show Perception is Reality
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 07:57:22 PM »
Well when yuh in Angostura position that certainly is true and sometimes yuh have to err on the side of caution.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2012, 09:10:41 PM »
Well when yuh in Angostura position that certainly is true and sometimes yuh have to err on the side of caution.
When it comes down to the bottom line I can agree with you that Angostura needs to protect their interests. Just as observer though I could see that the Angostura marketing people have some problems. What's their communication strategy ,what was creative brief for this ,which  brand values informed it and what message did they want to send ? The fact that all it took for them to pull the ad was an online petition means that they're jumpy and don't even have confidence in their message and how their target market perceives it.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 09:13:27 PM by Jah Gol »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2012, 09:18:13 PM »
Yeah I was surprised by how quickly they acquiesced.  Seems to me most have issue with the "menacing" look on the fella face... I can only imagine how much issues of race and class informing that discussion, maybe even on a subconscious level.  The photographic effects in that larger image don't help either, the way it darkens his face.  But still, that aside.. looking at the interaction between the two (and I can't see it quite too clearly) he's smiling, she's smiling back receptively... hand each on the glass, his other hand around her waist(?)  I just don't see the coercive or even subversive aspect that others are seeing.

Offline pecan

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2012, 09:21:56 PM »
I asked my daughter to comment on the ad.

Some background: this daughter traveled to rural India when she was 18 and spent a 10 months there. Two of those months were spent traveling through all of India (bus, train, jeep and camel - well for two hours anyway on the camel). She saw first hand the plight of the less fortunate, especially women in the lower castes. That changed her world view dramatically. When she returned to Canada, she changed her area of study from Music to Equity and Gender Studies. So she is now immersed in what many consider a left wing ideology at the University of Toronto. You can imagine the discussions we have when we get together. Nevertheless, she had caused me to reflect on my values, beliefs and she has challenged my traditional views on male/female relationships. And for that, I thank her. While we may disagree on many things, I value her perspective on issues such as the reasons that prompted Queen to start a petition.

Here are her thoughts that she dispatched in an e-mail to me. Based on the grammar and sentence structure, I think she wrote this rapidly off the top of her head. Some sentences do not flow or make complete sense. But overall, I think you can get the gist of her argument.


This is a problematic ad I think.  It's doing a number of things

1. It's basically suggesting that if you buy her a drink and get her drunk she won't be able to say "no", thus making a sexual encounter that may not have 100% consent for the female party - which is date rape.  Many people believe that it's only non consensual when someone says "No" and even then, people still believe that "no" means "yes".  I came across a rapist confidential once and a lot of these people didn't even know they were raping at the time.

2. Then there's the use of "friendzone", a term that perpetuates sexism.    The use of it in the ad makes it so that the "Nice Guy who always finishes last" and always finds himself in the friendzone has an excuse to have potentially non consensual sex.  Like, since it's him, the "Nice Guy" getting her drunk so she can't really give honest consent it can't be rape.   Because - a Nice Guy would never rape someone.  That's just impossible.  So the ad perpetuates that "nice guys don't rape", and I assure you, they can.

3. Plus, any time the "friendzone" is uttered,  it's perpetuating the idea that females should feel obligated to have sex with a male who is nice to her. Plus, devalues any sort of male-female platonic relationship.

Not a good ad, but most alcohol ads are almost the worst to perpetuate extremely harmful sexism.



whether you agree or disagree with her perspective, I thinks she attempts to explain a situation that many of us (men and women) do not see as harmful or demeaning to women.  Without being overly politically correct, perhaps we should be doing some navel gazing when it comes to gender studies.

I think Angostura recognized this and acted appropriately by pulling the ad.

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2012, 09:25:02 PM »
Yeah I was surprised by how quickly they acquiesced.  Seems to me most have issue with the "menacing" look on the fella face... I can only imagine how much issues of race and class informing that discussion, maybe even on a subconscious level.  The photographic effects in that larger image don't help either, the way it darkens his face.  But still, that aside.. looking at the interaction between the two (and I can't see it quite too clearly) he's smiling, she's smiling back receptively... hand each on the glass, his other hand around her waist(?)  I just don't see the coercive or even subversive aspect that others are seeing.
Yes that background picture is awful for all the reasons you mentioned.

Offline dinho

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Re: Petition against an Angostura ad
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2012, 10:30:40 PM »
The online petition was not the reason why they pulled the ad... That was just one response, in general the ad was plastered all over my Facebook feed with people commenting, criticising, ketching kicks and expressing opinions about that poorly construed ad...

No need to split hairs or go into a setta detailed analysis... If at first glance the ad gives the impression of some kinda raper-man vibes to the casual viewer then the ad is a complete failure. That is marketing 101, unless the latent intention was to drive awareness by stoking controversy.

They do good to nip it in the bud.