IS IT TOO LATE?

[NC]

This is certainly the best move that the TTFF has made in almost two decades (although Simones was good, he still had an inept administration) as it relates to WC preparation.  Considering the fact that Mr. Warner is paying from his pocket, should this have been done at least three months before the first game.  One immediate after just the announcement of the changes, is the fact that a REAL FRIENDLY have already been scheduled against England in Miami and training camp in europe (people with vision).  Although one might are argue that the camp should be in South America.

IS IT TOO LATE?

[rocwell]

Of course it's too late.  It's been said many times by many people, ideally to qualify you want to have your technical staff set two years before qualifying begins.  Here we are trying to find a new head coach to 'rescue' us from our current and recurring sef-inflicted predicament.

The camp should be in Europe as that's where most of our best foreign based players are.

[Jahyouth]

It is not too late.  Strategially speaking, you may put goals into three classes: short, medium and long-term.  Right now our short term goal is to qualify for the World Cup 2006.  With seven games to go, a tight table and three and a half spots available it is not out of reach.  So for the short term goals it is late yes, but not too late.

Meduim term goals are to get some type of system whereby the football is more organized and and players and administrators are better prepared, among other things.  Is this move too late for that?  No.  In the event that God forbid we do not qualify I would expect Leo to be relieved of his duties (and big salary) and Latapy take over the reins.

Long term goals are many in number.  Again this move is not too late for those either.

So when you say it is too late, I do not think this is entirely correct.  Actually I do not think it is correct at all.

[rocwell]

Well Jahyouth let's discuss this.  You've identified:

• Medium Term goals as getting our football infrastructure together
• You haven't stated what long term goals are, really it's quite similar to the above

with our Long term goals achieved, we'd at least be able to qualify for the World Cup every time out.  So I agree with you that these moves (if they materialise) are very good for the long term, and so you're absolutely right, it's never to late for long term.

Our short term goals (2006 WC) however are dependent on a few things.  The first of which is a good long term plan.  We haven't had this in the past, and as a result, the Trinidadian player has not been the benficiary of being in an organized programme, with a well prepared, as you put it, administration.

Secondly, our opposition is better prepared than we are .  That will count for something.  The US isn't startng over, Guatemala isn't starting over.  Panaman isn't...

Everyone expects Beenhakker (if he's coming at all) to work a miracle, but alot depends on the players, and alot depends on putting a proper system in place and giving our coaches ample time to accomplish something.  We seem to have a problem doing this in T&T.

I'll be just as happy if we make it to germany next year, but they way things have been organized in the past, I'm not holding my breath.

[NC]

I would argue that if this was done at least three months before the first we would have had at least six (6/) points.  We would have beaten both the USA and CR and would have tied /loss against Guatemala.

[rocwell]

Can you elaborate on why you chose the 3 month time frame?

[Jahyouth]

cyah "argue" football results bossman.  the games have to be played.  ridiculous

[NC]

Only because the TTFF is not getting money from the gov't and Mr. Warner is paying from his pocket and these guys do not come cheap.  I do realize at least to yeras would have been ideal.

[NC]

cyah "argue" football results bossman. the games have to be played. ridiculous

Relax Jahyouth we are talking Hypotheticals at this point, everyone understand the game must be played.  Just in case you do not see what I am saying, all I am saying is that if we has a more qualified coach as Don Leo, then our results might have been different.

[rocwell]

cyah "argue" football results bossman. the games have to be played. ridiculous

The games have to be played true, but a team's preparations are indicative of said team's quality and likelihood of success.   Thus one can easily argue that a poorly prepared team will lose aginst a well prepared one

[Jahyouth]

[The games have to be played true, but a team's preparations are indicative of said team's quality and likelihood of success.   Thus one can easily argue that a poorly prepared team will lose aginst a well prepared one

And this automatically translates to Wins?  Come on fellas, let's just let Bertille go in peace and allow Leo to come in and do his thing.  Those types of hypotheses make little if any sense. 

[rocwell]

[The games have to be played true, but a team's preparations are indicative of said team's quality and likelihood of success.   Thus one can easily argue that a poorly prepared team will lose aginst a well prepared one

And this automatically translates to Wins? Come on fellas, let's just let Bertille go in peace and allow Leo to come in and do his thing. Those types of hypotheses make little if any sense.

What does this have to do with Bertille?  You were the one speaking about long term and short term goals, and why T&T can still make it to the WC.  I told you why it's very unlikely that we will.  You'll have to explain yourself, as you're making little sense.

[NC]

And this automatically translates to Wins? Come on fellas, let's just let Bertille go in peace and allow Leo to come in and do his thing. Those types of hypotheses make little if any sense.

This has nothing to do with BSC ability, this only relates to BSC in the sense that he would have been released earlier.  But if you juxtapose the two men CV, you would draw the conclusion that we should be in better hands now.  Now, I sense that you are a fan of BSC, but please do not take this personal.

[Jahyouth]

So I am a fan of BSC because I say that if Leo was there from the start we cannot just ups and say that we would have had 6 points now?  What kinda unintelligent, warped reasoning is that?  I too feel like we are in better hands now, but one cannot venture to say how many points we WOULD HAVE HAD if Leo was there from the start.

[NC]

So I am a fan of BSC because I say that if Leo was there from the start we cannot just ups and say that we would have had 6 points now? What kinda unintelligent, warped reasoning is that? I too feel like we are in better hands now, but one cannot venture to say how many points we WOULD HAVE HAD if Leo was there from the start.

Would you have been happy if I siad we would hav had no points.  The truth is, I do not care who the coach was, we should have beaten the unprepared USA and CR.  We failed miserably.  I hear a lot of people celebrating the fact that we earned a point yesterday, are you one of them.  As a country we should only be concern with the USA in the United States and Mexico anywhere.  Do you disagree?

[dcs]

Bertille did make some improvements to this team that I don't think more qualified foreign coaches would have achieved with certainity...at least not short term.  That discipline thing is no small accomplishment....players seem to have their heart into the game...imagine Dwight Yorke putting out the most effort on the field..who would have thought that possible while in a T&T uniform.  The concept of team has never been stronger in the recent past....just my opinion.  So I don't see BSC as a failure...just not able to move forward further.

Given that those things are in place it gives this new coach the chance to deal with just the technical and tactical aspects of the game and less with the motivational/professional issues we have had in the past.  I don't know what to expect but the main challenge the new coach will face is getting the quality/quantity of games/training he needs to ingrain his ideas.

Another challenge would be for him to figure out what he is dealing with....
who is this team, who are the players, who is he up against. 
All the history and relevant information....that will have to come from people like Lincoln, Corneal, and yes Bertille...if he not stubborn. If this coach is good enough he will figure us out fast and know what the scene is, figure out what he wants to do then work on implementation.

Having laid out all that what is the time line?  Seems like alot of work to me so can't blame people who are skeptical or think no way it is possible.

I don't think he has to start over or the team has to start over.  The team has been playing together for a while now....they are still a fairly cohesive unit and making changes might not be too difficult.  We will see....I am hoping that by the time the Gold Cup comes around we have a T&T squad that looks like they are a team that can play well consistently and have a set plan on how to take points off of people.

I don't like the idea of him just coming short term though...Simoes came short term and we saw what "could" have been developed....anyone know if we followed through with anything...is the youth program that is now being funded an offshoot of that?

[NC]

If the WCQ came to an end today, we would not be going to the WC, we are last.  Wasn't Bertille job to get us the the WC?  At the rate we were going the future did not look very good.  This is a result oriented business.  It's like being in sales, if you do not produce on a monthly basis you will be replaced.  It happens everyday all around the world.  Whay we need to realize in T&T is that football is a business.  If we get that concept that will be a step in the right direction.  Look at the condition of our professional league, some of the teams do not even have a website or front office - and the attendence is very poor.  All I am saying is that we have a lot of work to do.

[Socafan]

If the WCQ came to an end today, we would not be going to the WC, we are last.  Wasn't Bertille job to get us the the WC?  At the rate we were going the future did not look very good.  This is a result oriented business.  It's like being in sales, if you do not produce on a monthly basis you will be replaced.  It happens everyday all around the world.  Whay we need to realize in T&T is that football is a business.  If we get that concept that will be a step in the right direction.  Look at the condition of our professional league, some of the teams do not even have a website or front office - and the attendence is very poor.  All I am saying is that we have a lot of work to do.

No pardnuhs we cyar run the head coach position like if is a salesman. That position needs more than 1 year to get results, especially if is Tnt that has very little proper player development and continuing programs.Is like starting from scratch with 10 yr olds every time ah head coach take over.

Imagine Bertille had to instill discipline and professionalism in the senior national team. That should be a given. If as a coach that is what you have to start with, then find players, and then make that team compete for the worldcup in less than a year well.......initial results against teams that start 3 years before will not be very encouraging.

But yuh suppose to know this going in and be prepared to suck the loses and ride it out with the program if is only 1 year of preparation yuh have with added constraints.

But we want to be results driven without adequate preparation. So now, like the last time, and the time before that, being results driven of course, we find ourselves starting over again with even less time. For me, we shoulda bite de bullet and stick with the program. Evaluate where we went wrong after that, and start the next program early o clock.

[dcs]

For me, we shoulda bite de bullet and stick with the program.

I doh think that program had more to give.  And is not just results that was the determining factor.  Yuh think the players don't agree...what about other football knowledgeable people in T&T?
If there was some indication that improvement was forthcoming maybe things would be different but you can only wait and see so long and what we was seeing was not encouraging at all.

I get your point about sticking it through but yuh hadda be half crazy to leave things the way they were going...ask de Costa Ricans.

[maxg]

ah might be wrong, eh
But ah dream or distintcly remember, Bertille job was to get we too 2010.
I think the Germany thing started when we made the Hex....Linc. had given a speech bout shooting for 2010, and changing the face of the societ etc....buh ah could be wrong, or mis-understood..
"dah is not dey business"

[dcs]

ah might be wrong, eh
But ah dream or distintcly remember, Bertille job was to get we too 2010.
I think the Germany thing started when we made the Hex....Linc. had given a speech bout shooting for 2010, and changing the face of the societ etc....buh ah could be wrong, or mis-understood..
"dah is not dey business"

No you are right.
But people not too confident that he is the man for that either.
His tactics at this level are not up to par and that not going to change.

[StoreBayLimer]

This is certainly the best move that the TTFF has made in almost two decades (although Simones was good, he still had an inept administration) as it relates to WC preparation. 

What!!   This is the same ``move'' the TTFF has been making in every WCQ campaing with the same results.  One would have though that this time they would have made a different move.

[AB.Trini]

If ah knew how to do the hyperlink thing  ah would take allyuh tuh meh posting on "SHOW  ME THE PLAN"
Basically these concerns raised here by socafan are the ones I have raised in that post. I have even mapped out a plan fuh dem men.

[StoreBayLimer]

I would argue that if this was done at least three months before the first we would have had at least six (6/) points.  We would have beaten both the USA and CR and would have tied /loss against Guatemala.

NC my friend, I don't know where your optimism comes from.  I cannot think of a technical basis for the statements above and especially since they are based on the identity of the coach.  Remember that T&T has never beaten the US in any WCQ, and look at the ranking of CR and T&T.   Not only that, look at whom CR has beaten consistently and whom T&T has had trouble with : for example Guatemala. T&T lost 4-0 to GUa last year. True, different squads and all that ....  .  Anyway in the US-TT game, the TT squad played an excellent match. The only T&T player who was having a hard time was unfortunately Stern John, who is usually an excellent striker. On three occasions balls were delivered to Stern: one to his chest, one to his foot and one alongside the goal and he was not able to produce. Is that the fault of St.Clair? Would it be different under another coach.  Why the faith in a new savior  ?

[StoreBayLimer]

  But if you juxtapose the two men CV, you would draw the conclusion that we should be in better hands now. 

Have you forgotten the experience  of the past with ``big time'' coaches. If you think the T&T experience is unusual, look at the recent experience of the reggaeboyz

http://www.thereggaeboyz.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/014075.html

[StoreBayLimer]

It would not have been too late with Bertille: the vibes seem to be good and the team was really playing hard. The team does not have a lot of depth and so if a striker is not performing, or the defense is loose on a particlular day then ti is difficult to compensate for that.

The new situation reminds one of our past experience and the recent experience of others.

[NC]

I would argue that if this was done at least three months before the first we would have had at least six (6/) points. We would have beaten both the USA and CR and would have tied /loss against Guatemala.

NC my friend, I don't know where your optimism comes from. I cannot think of a technical basis for the statements above and especially since they are based on the identity of the coach. Remember that T&T has never beaten the US in any WCQ, and look at the ranking of CR and T&T. Not only that, look at whom CR has beaten consistently and whom T&T has had trouble with : for example Guatemala. T&T lost 4-0 to GUa last year. True, different squads and all that .... . Anyway in the US-TT game, the TT squad played an excellent match. The only T&T player who was having a hard time was unfortunately Stern John, who is usually an excellent striker. On three occasions balls were delivered to Stern: one to his chest, one to his foot and one alongside the goal and he was not able to produce. Is that the fault of St.Clair? Would it be different under another coach. Why the faith in a new savior ?

Storebayliner, there is a lot of widom in optimism - whatever you go looking for is exactly what you will find.  As far as the technical basis for my analysis, in my opinion over the years we have taken an arragont approch to the game at all levels.  It seems as though we have no respect for the opponent (or do not scout them since BSC said after the USA game that he had never seen them play).Therefore we approach every game attempting to play straight up football as though we are unstoppable.  I have seen Jamaal do it with the women team and got nine from Carolina.  It was done recently in the U23 torneo against the USA and we got six and now the national team seems to be doing the same thing.  One would hope that the new coach would assess the talent of this team and implement a system that that best suits the talent, character and culture etc. of the players.  Hopefully he would also study our opponents strengths and weakenesses and ajust his game to exploit their weaknesses and minimize their ability to use their strength aginst us effectively.  We failed to control Ruiz in our game against Guatemala and the rsult was 5-1.  The USA did a great job against him (must be because they respect him) and they won 2-0.  I see a direct relationship in dealing with all aspects of the game and not just our approach.  There is a lot more that we can go into, but I hope you get the point.  One last thing, if one were to ask me, I would recommend that the team play a containing game because I think it best suits our culture, attitude etc.  We do not play with heart first like some of out opponents do, so trying to high pressure your opponents (which requires a lot of running, which requires a lot of bad mind - I would say that does not suit us.  That looks more like the USA.