Shabazz looks for travel help to the US.

[congo]

Nelson Mandela was also considered a terrorist at one time.

Now you comparing Shabazz to Nelson Mandela.  I could refer to you by all kinds of applicable terms... but I'll just let your own foolish words speak for themselves.

It is all a matter of perspective.

[congo]

Congo, no disrespect bredda, but the start of your second sentence said it all...and while we respect (at least some of us do) all viewpoints and opinions (until yuh prove yuhself to be ah damn ass i.e) on we lil forum, bredda yuh don't know what de ass yuh talking bout. And that's fine, you'll continue to grow and build character and it'll make you a better person.

In the mean time, stick to what yuh know bout...ah fedup putting Solomon Mcleod (et al) name on here, yeah de one dey shoot and drive over and bun-up at Police HQ, so ah wouldn't mention him again...so yeah bredda continue to laugh at we who consider them terrorist.

And ah know dis unfair eh, but save yuh responses for somebody else cause it will be (as was your other posts) wasted on me.

Well f**king said 

It is clear this yute doh know what de ass he talking about and with each passing utterance he reveals himself to be more of a fool.  He doesn't understand the difference between peaceful resistance and violent rebellion and seeks to conflate the two as cover for his lack of understanding, education or both.  It is not my responsibility to educate him, so like you I will leave him to his blissful ignorance.  The only thing I will caution is that he should guard when and where he chooses to make these pronouncements in person, because there are others out there who may not be as understanding or receptive of his misinformed opinion.

You saying that as if they are not connected. Most revolutions started off peacefully and evolved into something more violent. Again you all coming at my throat for just voicing an opinion. I am neither for or against the action that was taken. I still don't know much about the situation after all these years to make an informed judgement. There is not much credible information out there regarding this. You all may know more about it than I do and so would have your opinion as well and I could respect that. All I am saying is that it is very hard for me to look out from the outside and see people who have taken this sort of action walking around freely and seem to thrive in our society. Something just doesn't add up there and I can't understand that. You all are so passionate about this then go and protest outside the red house and demand that Shabazz is removed from the national setup. Why don't you all go and protest for Abu to be arrested and tried for this and new laws implemented for his swift trial and possible execution. One setta of internet bullies. You claim that I am a fool then educate me.

You may have grown tired of calling the police officer's name but I don't know it. He wasn't ingrained in my memory as child as a fallen hero or anything. I barely even know he existed. That is the system for you. Shabazz is national coach but I can't recall this police officer's name by heart. I had to google this person and I still didn't find much about him. This person is all but forgotten. The ones with the power to keep his memory alive, they don't care about him. These are the same ppl rubbing shoulders with the "terrorist". So while me and you may brand others terrorists etc, that really doesn't matter because we are powerless to prosecute or enforce the law to punish such activity etc. The ones in power don't care. That is the system and country that we live in.

[Football supporter]

The fact that this football thread has been dominated by political events 20 years ago really explains itself. Whatever the ability of Mr Shabazz, these same discussions will take place outside T&T when this situation goes global at the Gold Cup, which it certainly will.

I have no sympathy with terrorists. Growing up in the UK when it was at war with the IRA etc was no fun. For a decade you were on alert every time you went to the capital. Of course, there were atrocities on both sides. And I wondered if the people of Boston, the IRA's biggest source of fundraising, remembered the "freedom fighters" they supported in the 70's when that bomb went off a few months ago?

I always believe that a man deserves a second chance. If you look at the decisions you made as a teenager, from the clothes you wore, your haircuts, music, even your political beliefs, many times you would shudder. I'm not comparing wearing flares to revolution, but young people are easily led.

Mr Shabazz appears to be a fairly upright member of the community who seems to want to help youths. The fact he got Guerra out of the gang lifestyle that many of his family were involved with is commendable.

So, here's the rub. In my opinion, Shabazz's past criminal record should be remembered but not mentioned when we're talking local football. However, it is a very real and present factor when we're appointing a national coach. I'm sorry to say it, but that ghost will follow him around for ever and when it's mentioned outside T&T it does not promote a positive image.

Mr Shabazz has had a very good coaching record recently, both locally and with Guyana. I feel it was a bad decision by him to accept a position with the national team. I don't know him well, but he's ok to deal with on a day to day basis and he could have, and no doubt still will, continue to win trophies locally. I don't like to see the personal attacks made against him on this site, but I can understand why they happen.

Which is why it's better not to be so public when you have skeletons in your closet.

[MEP]

Maybe I don't...I am young but at the same time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter right....Why would I call this one and that one a terrorist while the politicians cosy up to these people and reward them with contracts etc. Alluh men coming at my throat but we are calling a man who took up arms against the state a terrorist whilst at the same time this man is our national team coach. Alluh could call him a terrorist all you all want but that doesn't change the fact that he is the national team coach. So what exactly does that say about our system?

Lissen padnah ..and lissen well being young doesn't entitle you to stupidity......
How many people died in the coup?

[dinho]

Congo, no disrespect bredda, but the start of your second sentence said it all...and while we respect (at least some of us do) all viewpoints and opinions (until yuh prove yuhself to be ah damn ass i.e) on we lil forum, bredda yuh don't know what de ass yuh talking bout. And that's fine, you'll continue to grow and build character and it'll make you a better person.

In the mean time, stick to what yuh know bout...ah fedup putting Solomon Mcleod (et al) name on here, yeah de one dey shoot and drive over and bun-up at Police HQ, so ah wouldn't mention him again...so yeah bredda continue to laugh at we who consider them terrorist.

And ah know dis unfair eh, but save yuh responses for somebody else cause it will be (as was your other posts) wasted on me.

Well f**king said 

It is clear this yute doh know what de ass he talking about and with each passing utterance he reveals himself to be more of a fool.  He doesn't understand the difference between peaceful resistance and violent rebellion and seeks to conflate the two as cover for his lack of understanding, education or both.  It is not my responsibility to educate him, so like you I will leave him to his blissful ignorance.  The only thing I will caution is that he should guard when and where he chooses to make these pronouncements in person, because there are others out there who may not be as understanding or receptive of his misinformed opinion.

You saying that as if they are not connected. Most revolutions started off peacefully and evolved into something more violent. Again you all coming at my throat for just voicing an opinion. I am neither for or against the action that was taken. I still don't know much about the situation after all these years to make an informed judgement. There is not much credible information out there regarding this. You all may know more about it than I do and so would have your opinion as well and I could respect that. All I am saying is that it is very hard for me to look out from the outside and see people who have taken this sort of action walking around freely and seem to thrive in our society. Something just doesn't add up there and I can't understand that. You all are so passionate about this then go and protest outside the red house and demand that Shabazz is removed from the national setup. Why don't you all go and protest for Abu to be arrested and tried for this and new laws implemented for his swift trial and possible execution. One setta of internet bullies. You claim that I am a fool then educate me.

Youth man, better you stay quiet and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt... Look there is some info here in this thread:

http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=52564.msg844730#msg844730

There is also a book by Raoul Pantin that gives his account on the insurrection while he was a hostage, i would definitely recommend it as a good place to start. Innocent people lost their lives, a sitting prime minister was shot and a minister murdered by these terrorists, there is absolutely no justification for what took place. It is a stain on our nation's history that I believe damaged our psyche in a profound way.

As for Shabazz and that second chance talk, how can we talk about giving a man a chance when he has shown no remorse for his actions? Has he ever acknowledged his role? Has he ever asked for forgiveness from the families of the victims and of the nation as a whole or maybe I just missed it?

Outside with dem.
 

[Bourbon]

Yuh know a Shabazz was at a lime and he said that he wouldnt be interested in being national team coach cuz this would be hanging over his head. That was like 2003 or so....look at the difference time makes.


Anyhow....as you were.

[congo]

The fact is that my generation and the ones who come after me would probably never really know the full facts of this situation because not enough was done to educate us about this incident. There is still alot of gossip involved in it. Everybody saying that he shouldn't be near the national team but he has been for years in various capacities. It is shocking to see people being so passionate against Shabazz inclusion in the national setup. I really didn't expect to see this. I thought of all persons involved, he was the one forgiven. You can call them terrorists all you want but that doesn't change the fact that quite a number of them have gone on to sit on state boards and gain national prominence which brings me back to my question how can "terrorists" achieve these sort of things in a "democratic" country. I really don't understand it. You talking to somebody who normally hears from ppl a generation up that one of the best things about the coup was the curfew parties and ducking the police etc. Howcome ppl don't feel so strongly towards those involved in the 1970 movement though?

[congo]

Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?

[vb]

Shabazz was an accomplice to premeditated murder.
Fok he visa.

VB

[D.H.W]

Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?

Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.

Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.

[vb]

----------

Listening to you talk, you'd swear is only black people ever struggle and work hard in TT.

You black, bitter, read a few books and think you know it all.

Only black ppl work for a few shillings, only black people get paid less than white people and of course only black  ketch ass in TT.
Is ppl like you Abu Bakr is prey on.

VB

[vb]

VB the jackasshole, how this talk swing to ah black ting?? not bc i didn't mention your ppl means that i exclude them. i  was mainlytalking bout what took place in "PORT OF SPAIN" yuh backsidehole!!

Yuh didn't mention them but you didn't exclude them.

Got it.

[Sam]

Let him go nah, this time Jack eh they to bail him out.

[congo]

Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?

Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.

Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.

I not defending anything all I am saying is that I can't rationalise a system whereby a person can be classified as a terrorist is given such prominence and responsibility on the national scene. I am not familiar with what happen as I am sure my generation and the ones coming up below will not be either. That is not our fault. It is the responsibility of the generations before to have this part of our history clear and defined so that the ones coming after have a clear picture and idea of what take place. You all fail to realise that we went to school with these people's children, some of us are even friends etc. They sat next to our parents at teachers days and sports days.. What I know a terrorist to be is someone on the run and someone who is a declared enemy of the state etc. So until the time that these people become fugitive, I will not use that term..Criminal maybe.

[D.H.W]

Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?

Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.

Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.

I not defending anything all I am saying is that I can't rationalise a system whereby a person can be classified as a terrorist is given such prominence and responsibility on the national scene. I am not familiar with what happen as I am sure my generation and the ones coming up below will not be either. That is not our fault. It is the responsibility of the generations before to have this part of our history clear and defined so that the ones coming after have a clear picture and idea of what take place. You all fail to realise that we went to school with these people's children, some of us are even friends etc. They sat next to our parents at teachers days and sports days.. What I know a terrorist to be is someone on the run and someone who is a declared enemy of the state etc. So until the time that these people become fugitive, I will not use that term..Criminal maybe.

Sound like you letting personal feelings cloud yuh judgement. If it was your family who was affected, you wouldn't be talking like that. At least they have family. Some people lost that.

Regardless of what the government do or ain't do. Doesn't change what he did. Take that up with the authorities. Anyway I done talk.

[congo]

Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?

Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.

Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.

I not defending anything all I am saying is that I can't rationalise a system whereby a person can be classified as a terrorist is given such prominence and responsibility on the national scene. I am not familiar with what happen as I am sure my generation and the ones coming up below will not be either. That is not our fault. It is the responsibility of the generations before to have this part of our history clear and defined so that the ones coming after have a clear picture and idea of what take place. You all fail to realise that we went to school with these people's children, some of us are even friends etc. They sat next to our parents at teachers days and sports days.. What I know a terrorist to be is someone on the run and someone who is a declared enemy of the state etc. So until the time that these people become fugitive, I will not use that term..Criminal maybe.

Sound like you letting personal feelings cloud yuh judgement. If it was your family who was affected, you wouldn't be talking like that. At least they have family. Some people lost that.

Regardless of what the government do or ain't do. Doesn't change what he did. Take that up with the authorities. Anyway I done talk.

So where does the closure come from? What is stopping the people who were really affected by this from walking up to them with a gun and blowing their brains out etc...If the authorities not looking for closure or justice for the victims where is it going to come from? Just calling a man a terrorists doesn't say much..There needs to be accountability obviously and the lack of it scares me.

[vb]

VB the jackasshole, how this talk swing to ah black ting?? not bc i didn't mention your ppl means that i exclude them. i  was mainlytalking bout what took place in "PORT OF SPAIN" yuh backsidehole!!

Yuh didn't mention them but you didn't exclude them.

Got it.

Go fack yuhself kakhole, so what if i didn't mention them, do i have too??!!

this is about jamal shabbaz and what took place in 1990, not about indian and black accomplishments or suffering, stay in context yuh dunce ass! now fack off and leave me be yuh fackin half whit!!

and is ppl like you who sat maraj and kamla does prey on too, [  ]!

You bray on and on about black people and Butler and telling us you not talking about black people's accomplishments.

If you don't understand the concept of what a terrorist is, there is no need to exhibit your ignorance, simply use a dictionary.

Allow me to assist..

Terrorist:  a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weapon.

....please note "as a political weapon," is especially not soley or always.
In no part does it mention being "on the run."

VB

[giggsy11]

Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!

[toonmili]

Some people just like to talk. If they thought Abu and co. were fighting for freedom (from what, I am not sure) or for them they are misinformed. They just used the general feeling of discontent to justify what they were doing.

They were a bunch of bad johns, using religion as a guise to hide under-cover nefarious activities and had been threatening the government for years as a means to get what they want. When they didn't get their Mocorapo lands (I think that was the land they wanted) they decided to show them who is boss.

If you really feel that is about working hard and a struggle then something is wrong with you. I know people in my family worked hard, saved money to buy they land they wanted. They didn't decide to start a coup. The money they used to go America and buy a trailer load of guns at a gun show (yeah they did that) could have been used to help purchase the land. But no... they felt they had the right to it.

Lets get some things straight: They weren't no freedom fighters.
And they weren't representing any black struggle... to say that is an insult to people who actually did. The black power movement in Trinidad was for both black races in Trinidad... not something bound by ethnicity. Abu them not even worthy to clean Butler shoe.

And not every revolution has to be violent. The whole idea of a state is that they state has the monopoly on violence... that is the state can use violence to maintain peace but they do so responsibly. Correct me if I'm wrong but did state use unjust violence and the Jamaat to warrant a violent retaliation. If you support citizens using violence as a negotiation tactic that you wish is to live in a failed state... because that is what a failed state is... when the state looses the monopoly on violence over certain geographical areas. You my man should move to Haiti... where you can live in a country with a violent revolution every 10 years.

[sammy]

while i was young back then, it seemed to me that a lot of ppl was having a good time looting, having limes and curfew parties etc..

- I know the upstanding citizens here were not a part of that but they were rather pissed off and looking to run down town and jostle Abu and them.

PS i not defending what those guys did, but just to note that Black Muslims included indians too.

Just another question, if a guy is hired to kill someone, does the killer alone get jailed or does the hirer pay the price as well?

[asylumseeker]

What are the chances allyuh feel of USA giving de ole Shabazz ah visa?

I say he doh have a chance...I could be wrong though, we shall see.

Time doesn't permit me to make an energetic contribution on this thread, but I wanted to share this much: the Jamaat al-Muslimeen is not on the FTO list.

Background

Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).


Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended:

1. It must be a foreign organization.

2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)), or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.

3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.


Guidance.

[coache]

Lock up Sbazz wid Granger and Bakr for treason...

[sjahrain]

Lasalle, Shah. and Barzie,how much time they did for thier participation in the 1970 uprising,so president was set
In no way am I condoning his participation in that time of infamy
I cannot accept his involvement in our natoonal teams at any level,a very sour taste still exists...

[vb]

Lasalle, Shah. and Barzie,how much time they did for thier participation in the 1970 uprising,so president was set
In no way am I condoning his participation in that time of infamy
I cannot accept his involvement in our natoonal teams at any level,a very sour taste still exists...

I don't remember those three killing anybody.

[Bakes]

Lasalle, Shah. and Barzie,how much time they did for thier participation in the 1970 uprising,so president was set
In no way am I condoning his participation in that time of infamy
I cannot accept his involvement in our natoonal teams at any level,a very sour taste still exists...

LaSalle and Shah did time for their attempted mutiny, until they were freed by an appellate court.  Abu Bakr and them secured a negotiated amnesty at the point of the gun.  Under duress, and with ANR Robinson bleeding to death inside Parliament it was decided to grant the amnesty, which somehow the Privy Council upheld.  I don't know who "Barzie" is or what "president" was set.  All of this information is publicly available for anybody with a shred of intellectual curiousity... available right here on this very website as well.  It is nothing but sheer laziness, that people claiming there's no "reliable" information about what went on out in the public domain.

[vb]

Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!

Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post 

[sammy]

well it look like shabazz might not need that visa after all

[weary1969]

well it look like shabazz might not need that visa after all

ENT

[asylumseeker]

Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!

Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post 

SMH!

[Bakes]

Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!

Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post 

SMH!

Shake harder...