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Author Topic: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!  (Read 5164 times)

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Offline Socapro

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Everything that has happened in soca music since the 2000's has just been a series of rebranding and marketing exercises besides for the speeding up and total computerisation of the music (with the removal of live musicians playing real brass, steelpan and other instruments from the recording studio sessions to save on recording costs). 

This has been my observation about soca music since the 2000’s; everything that could have been done with the music fusion wise, beat wise, etc has been done between the 70's and the 90's which is the point at which soca music was already 20 to 25 years old.

So since Soca started in the early to mid 70’s we have seen great musicians like:

Shorty (the Father of Soca) - fusing Calypso music with East Indian rhythms (later to be rebranded as Chutney-Soca), funk and soul in the early 70’s (1971 to 1974) and changing the rhythmic and bassline structure of the music as a result.

Ed Watson (who worked closely with Shorty in the early 70's) - fusing the then young soca music with cadence, rumba, mambo, meringue & highlife in the late 70’s to early 80’s.

Shadow – doing his own disctinctive calypso style with his heavy haunting basslines from 1974 onwards that was eventually fused with the popular soca style introduced by Shorty.

Wellington – doing his own new calypso style with his funky basslines for a period from 1974 to 1977 that was eventually fused with the popular soca style introduced by Shorty.
NB: Apparently Wellington is still a bit bitter about this because he was racing against Shorty to introduce a new more modern style of calypso in the early 70's and Shorty's Soca style hit the jackpot and won out in the popularity race.

Maestro & Pelham Goddard - speeding up soca music and fusing it with blues and soul and tackling some urgent issues before he tragically died in August 1977.

Kalyan - fusing the then young soca music with American funk, disco and soul and successfully crossing over to the international North American market in the late 70’s.
NB: The general sound of Kalyan's music was leaning so much towards the North American market that it was eventually branded more as North American than Caribbean music. Kalyan also influenced and was influenced by big American funk/soul bands like Brass Construction and Kool & The Gang.

Shorty - fusing gospel and reggae influences with soca to develop Jamoo Soca in late 70’s onwards.

Lord Laro, Andre Tanker, Becket and others also start to occasionally or regularly fuse elements of reggae with calypso and soca from the late 70’s onwards.

Rapso also becomes properly established in Trinidad in the late 70’s courtesy of Bro. Resistance and his Network Riddim Band Rapso Movement who were mainly inspired by Afro-centric artist Lancelot Layne and the Black Power Movement of the early 70’s. Rapso music usually contains Soca with strong elements of African drumming, Steelpan and Orisha influences.

Crazy did the first Parang Soca fusion song in December 1978 that started the annual Christmas parang soca craze of fusing traditional Trini parang music with soca.

The first Jab-Jab soca, "Look De Devil Dey", was recorded by late calypsonian Penguin in late 1979 and was a major hit and Road March contender for T&T carnival in early 1980.
 
Penguin was beaten to the 1980 Road March title by Blue Boy with one of the first Soca and Baptist chanting musical fusions aptly entitled "Soca Baptist".
NB: Both Penguin's and Blue Boy's popular 1980 road songs were arranged by Pelham Goddard.

In 1980 we also saw Lord Nelson do a fresh new trend setting fusion of soca with disco music in his big hit called "Disco Daddy" with Clive Bradley as arranger.

In the 80’s we saw Soca spreading from T&T to most of the other Caribbean islands and worldwide starting with the international hit “Sugar Bum Bum” by Kitchener in 1978 followed by “Lorraine” from Explainer in 1982 and then “Hot Hot Hot” and “Long Time” by Arrow in 1983 and 1984 respectively.

Chutney Soca also got coined by Drupatee (1987) and became a very popular sub genre of soca during the 80’s in Trinidad, Guyana and Suriname (all Caribbean countries with large East Indian populations).

Also in the 80’s with the popular rise of zouk, we saw artists like Prince Unique from T&T and others from St Lucia, Dominica, Antigua and other islands regularly fusing zouk with soca.

Soca started to be very strongly influenced by the popularity of Jamaican dancehall in late 80’s early 90’s leading to the birth of Ragga Soca, a term coined by producer & arranger Kenny Philips during the 1993 T&T Carnival season.

Computerisation of soca beats also started happening during the 80's amongst certain producers & arrangers like Leston Paul and Frankie McIntosh but it was Burning Flames and Seventeen Plus from the Northern Caribbean Small Islands who were two of the first soca bands and producers to computerise all their instruments in their soca music minus the singer's voice.
 
Computerisation of soca beats and the hectic speeding up of soca music led to jam & wine, jump & wave, ringbang, Bouyon soca, Jab-Jab soca and other uptempo styles being firmly established as soca sub-genres by the 90’s.

Pop, rock, r&b, Latino, African and other international music styles were also regularly added to soca music during the 80's and 90’s by artists like Burning Flames, Machel Montano & Xtatik, David Rudder and others eventually leading to what we are currently branding today as Island Pop, Island Fusion, Socaton, Afrobeat-Soca and other Pop/Dance/R&B Soca styles.

Late 90's (1999 to be exact) the first Soca Riddim album is launched by Chinese Laundry "Pigtail Riddim" that has since led to the current Soca Riddims craze that has been dominating soca music in recent years leading to much less creativity in soca music than was the case before the 2000's.
So there is a very strong argument that the popularity and reliance on Soca Riddims today has damaged the previous creativity within the soca music genre that we regularly saw between the 70's and the 90's.

So basically since the 90’s nothing new has really happened in soca music other than various rebranding and marketing exercises with labels like Groovy Soca, Power Soca, Bashment Soca, Island Pop, Socaton, etc which are all just labels given to the music for stuff that was happening many many years before in the music before we came up with the labels.

So there you have it. I officially submit the very strong argument that everything else that has happened in soca music since the 2000’s is nothing new and all we have been doing since then is carrying out clever rebranding and marketing exercises with all the recent soca labelling and re-labelling.

I challenge anyone who believes otherwise and is not on BS to prove me wrong regards my observation.
If you are a proper soca music fan from the 70's till now or do proper research then I believe you will have little choice but to agree with my observation.

Who agrees or disagrees with me, please speak up now in this thread or forever hold your piece! :beermug:
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 03:22:59 PM by Socapro »
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Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 05:29:08 PM »
Interesting take. All we have now are more labels to distinguish the different types of Soca.. Music has always been about borrowing from the past and evolution. So its not really surprising. Rap and Reggae continues to go down the same road too.


Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 05:32:57 PM »
Interesting take. All we have now are more labels to distinguish the different types of Soca.. Music has always been about borrowing from the past and evolution. So its not really surprising. Rap and Reggae continues to go down the same road too.


:beermug:
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 06:25:02 PM »
Jump and wine wave yuh flag. That is soca now. Gone are the days of Square one, Krosfyah etc. Music is shit and not good enough to be exported.

Kes sounds decent. I see he doing the Official Caribbean premiere league song with a next fella. Other than that nobody catches my eye. I fed-up with Machel also.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Pc9PgLjf9Ks&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Pc9PgLjf9Ks&amp;</a>
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 06:34:02 PM by Socapro »
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 06:35:04 PM »
Jump and wine wave yuh flag. That is soca now. Gone are the days of Square one, Krosfyah etc. Music is shit and not good enough to be exported.

Kes sounds decent. I see he doing the Official Caribbean premiere league song with a next fella. Other than that nobody catches my eye. I fed-up with Machel also.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Pc9PgLjf9Ks&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Pc9PgLjf9Ks&amp;</a>
:beermug:
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Offline mal jeux

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 07:19:53 PM »
Jump and wine wave yuh flag. That is soca now. Gone are the days of Square one, Krosfyah etc. Music is shit and not good enough to be exported.

Kes sounds decent. I see he doing the Official Caribbean premiere league song with a next fella. Other than that nobody catches my eye. I fed-up with Machel also.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Pc9PgLjf9Ks&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Pc9PgLjf9Ks&amp;</a>


could we not say that the music is just going through another transition? speak to some of the older heads and they will say when shorty was emerging with the soca beats they too thought it was shit and a poor representation of our music. Look where it is now.


the jump and wave is in demand, even though some may not think it's 'good' music or worth exporting. on the road carnival time or at any good fete and the same jump and wave music does elevate you. the same can be said when you hear popular djs around the world doing remixes and when you hit a club and (name a city) you hear the same jump and wave, a sense of pride does overwhelm you 9and the young people embrace it).

jump and wave is not for everyone, but like or not it's carving out it's own fan base and I don't think we'll see the end of it anytime soon.


i am mal jeaux and I love jump and wave (not all though)

btw bunji tabanca is boss!
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 07:24:39 PM »
It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 07:26:31 PM by D.H.W »
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Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 07:37:50 PM »
It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.

Everything that has happened in soca music since the 2000's has just been a series of rebranding and marketing exercises besides for the speeding up and total computerisation of the music (with the removal of live musicians playing real brass, steelpan and other instruments from the recording studio sessions to save on recording costs). 

This has been my observation about soca music since the 2000’s; everything that could have been done with the music fusion wise, beat wise, etc has been done between the 70's and the 90's which is the point at which soca music was already 20 to 25 years old.

So since Soca started in the mid 70’s we saw great musicians like:-

Shorty (the Father of Soca) - fusing the music with East Indian rhythms (later to be rebranded as Chutney-Soca), funk and soul in the early 70’s (1971 to 1974);

Ed Watson - fusing the then young soca music with cadence, rumba, mambo, meringue & high-life late 70’s to early 80’s.

Shadow – doing his own thing with his heavy haunting calypso basslines from 1974 onwards.

Wellington – doing his own thing with his funky calypso basslines from 1974 onwards.

Maestro & Pelham Goddard - speeding up soca music and fusing it with blues and soul and tackling some urgent issues before he tragically died in August 1977.

Kalyan - fusing the then young soca music with American funk, disco and soul and successfully crossing over to the international North American market in the late 70’s.

Lord Laro, Andre Tanker  and others fusing reggae with calypso and soca from the late 70’s onwards.

Shorty - fusing gospel and reggae influences with soca to develop Jamoo soca in late 70’s onwards.

Rapso also becomes properly established in Trinidad in the late 70’s courtesy of Bro. Resistance and his Network Riddim Band Rapso Movement who were mainly inspired by Afro-centric artist Lancelot Layne and the Black Power Movement of the early 70’s.

Crazy did the first Parang Soca fusion song in December 1978 that started the annual Christmas parang soca craze of fusing traditional Trini parang music with soca.

The first Jab-Jab soca was recorded by late calypsonian Penguin in late 1979 and was a major hit and Road March contender for T&T carnival in early 1980.
 
Penguin was beaten to the 1980 Road March title by Blue Boy with one of the first Soca and Baptist chanting musical fusions aptly entitled "Soca Baptist".

In 1980 we also saw Lord Nelson do a fresh new trend setting fusion of soca with disco music in his big hit called "Disco Daddy" with Clive Bradley as arranger.

In the 80’s we saw Soca spreading from T&T to most of the other Caribbean islands and worldwide starting with the international hit “Sugar Bum Bum” in 1978 followed by “Lorraine” from Explainer in 1982 and then “Hot Hot Hot” and “Long Time” by Arrow in 1983 and 1984 respectively.

Chutney soca also got coined by Drupatee (1987) and became a very popular sub genre of soca during the 80’s in Trinidad, Guyana and Suriname (all Caribbean countries with large East Indian populations).

Also in the 80’s with the popular rise of zouk, we saw artists like Prince Unique from T&T and others from St Lucia, Dominica, Antigua and other islands regularly fusing zouk with soca.

Soca started to be very strongly influenced by the popularity of Jamaican dancehall in late 80’s early 90’s leading to the birth of Ragga Soca, a term coined by producer & arranger Kenny Philips during the 1993 T&T Carnival season.

Computerisation of soca beats also started happening during the 80's amongst certain producers & arrangers like Leston Paul and Frankie McIntosh but it was Burning Flames and Seventeen Plus from the Northern Caribbean Small Islands who were two of the first soca bands and producers to computerise all their instruments in their soca music minus the singer's voice.
 
Computerisation of soca beats and the hectic speeding up of soca music led to jump & wave, ringbang, Bouyon soca, Jab-Jab soca and other uptempo styles being firmly established as soca sub-genres by the 90’s.

Pop, rock, r&b and other international music styles were also regularly added to soca music during the 80's and 90’s by artists like Burning Flames, Machel Montano & Xtatik and others eventually leading to what we are currently branding today as Island Pop, Island Fusion and other pop soca styles.

Late 90's (1999 to be exact) the first soca riddim album is launched by Chinese Laundry "Pigtail Riddim" that has since led to the current Soca Riddims craze that has been dominating soca music in recent years leading to much less creativity in soca music than was the case before the 2000's.
So there is a very strong argument that the popularity and reliance on Soca Riddims today has damaged the previous creativity within the soca music genre that we regularly saw between the 70's and the 90's.

So basically since the 90’s nothing new has really happen in soca music other than various rebranding and marketing exercises with labels like Groovy Soca, Power Soca, Bashment Soca, Island Pop, etc which are all just labels given to the music for stuff that was happening many many years before in the music before we came up with the labels.

So there you have it. I officially submit the very strong argument that everything else that has happened in soca music since the 2000’s is nothing new and all we have been doing since then is carrying out clever rebranding and marketing exercises with all the recent soca labelling and re-labelling.

I challenge anyone who believes otherwise and is not on BS to prove me wrong regards my observation.
If you are a proper soca music fan from the 70's till now or do proper research then I believe you will have little choice but to agree with my observation.

Who agrees or disagrees with me, please speak up now in this thread or forever hold your piece! :beermug:

Interesting take, but I also think that Soca and calypso continue to change and have always struggled for their own identity, since we as Trinidadians still do not wholly embrace it as ours. We seem to be still looking for affirmation and acceptance from outsiders towards our own music. I find it ironic that the song that seems to have the most "international appeal" (Differentology) is just good music.....done without having to run left, right or helterskelter for a foreign collaboration to give it "international appeal."

One factoid I always found interesting is that Clive Bradley arranged Disco Daddy by Nelson. For me it is still one of the best musical intros to a soca song.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 07:59:13 PM by Socapro »
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 08:04:14 PM »
Notice the sounds that make it internationally is not jump and wave eh. Dat is what I saying.

Pump me up still mashing up.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 08:04:32 PM »
It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.

I hope you realise that what Shorty and those other soca pioneers were doing in the 70's is exactly what we would describe as Groovy Soca today pace wise.
So in reality the formula for international success with soca music was laid out by Shorty and other soca pioneers from the very beginning but our obsession with gearing the music towards Carnival has blinded us to that obvious reality.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 08:06:46 PM by Socapro »
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Offline D.H.W

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It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.

I hope you realise that what Shorty and those other soca pioneers were doing in the 70's is exactly what we would describe as Groovy Soca today pace wise.
So in reality the formula for international success with soca music was laid out by Shorty and other soca pioneers from the very beginning but our obsession with gearing the music towards Carnival has blinded us to that obvious reality.

Yes
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 08:53:54 AM »

One factoid I always found interesting is that Clive Bradley arranged Disco Daddy by Nelson. For me it is still one of the best musical intros to a soca song.

 :beermug: :beermug: love that song....underappreciated in my opinion
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 09:12:51 AM »
It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.

I hope you realise that what Shorty and those other soca pioneers were doing in the 70's is exactly what we would describe as Groovy Soca today pace wise.
So in reality the formula for international success with soca music was laid out by Shorty and other soca pioneers from the very beginning but our obsession with gearing the music towards Carnival has blinded us to that obvious reality.

that is old news, is years now that people saying that. maybe somebody could take wine and rag style worldwide. but consistent international success requires a bit more creativity and a marked departure from the typical wave yuh rag formula. 

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Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 09:38:07 AM »
It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.

I hope you realise that what Shorty and those other soca pioneers were doing in the 70's is exactly what we would describe as Groovy Soca today pace wise.
So in reality the formula for international success with soca music was laid out by Shorty and other soca pioneers from the very beginning but our obsession with gearing the music towards Carnival has blinded us to that obvious reality.

that is old news, is years now that people saying that. maybe somebody could take wine and rag style worldwide. but consistent international success requires a bit more creativity and a marked departure from the typical wave yuh rag formula. 


Shorty was telling these blind young soca singers that while he was a live and they called him old fashioned.
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Offline fari

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 11:45:26 AM »
2 thoughts:

1. some would argue that as the business evolved so that non-singers entered the arena in order to "eat a food" creativity and lyrical content. i went pres with kes and them and them fellas is not srictly soca artistes...i remember guitarist jon with a list of songs he had to learn to play and was all kind of genres of music and as i listen to their recent output i think no wonder them fellas so creative, their musical tastes are wide and varied.  ask any artiste in any genre what he listens to and chances are his tastes run across genres and timespans

2. wellington cyah be mad that shorty style "won" the popularity race...the tempo of this track almost make me take an afternoon nap...lorddd

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dkHTfUrnayM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/dkHTfUrnayM</a>

Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2013, 02:23:03 PM »
2 thoughts:

1. some would argue that as the business evolved so that non-singers entered the arena in order to "eat a food" creativity and lyrical content. i went pres with kes and them and them fellas is not srictly soca artistes...i remember guitarist jon with a list of songs he had to learn to play and was all kind of genres of music and as i listen to their recent output i think no wonder them fellas so creative, their musical tastes are wide and varied.  ask any artiste in any genre what he listens to and chances are his tastes run across genres and timespans

2. wellington cyah be mad that shorty style "won" the popularity race...the tempo of this track almost make me take an afternoon nap...lorddd

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dkHTfUrnayM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/dkHTfUrnayM</a>
I think Wellington was initially calling what he was doing Russo Calypso or Russo Funk but when he heard Shorty calling what he was doing Soca/Sokah, Wellington switched the name of what he was doing and called it Soca as well. That was a big mistake and in so doing Wellington handed victory to Shorty.

Wellington should have stuck to the name he had for what he was doing but I guess Shorty's style became way too popular and he had no choice but to join the bandwagon. In fact Wellington even went to work with Ed Watson who was working with Shorty after he saw that Shorty had his two big hits "Endless Vibrations" and "Sweet Music" with Ed Watson as his main music arranger.

Here is the title track from Wellington's 1977 album "Sooner Or Later" which is a bit livelier and a better example of the new style of calypso that he was trying to push at the time.

King Wellington -  Sooner Or Later (1977 / Arranged by Alfred Lockhart)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qNPqr4NKfPI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qNPqr4NKfPI</a>


In the meantime Shorty already had big hit soca tracks like "Endless Vibrations" & "Sweet Music" under his belt from previous years and came out in 1977 with an album called "Sokah The Soul Of Calypso" explaining exactly how his new Soca/Sokah music is structured. Well as you can guess after that it was curtains for Wellington's style as nobody else but Wellington was interested in pushing his style after that.

Lord Shorty - Vibrations Groove (1977 / Arranged by Frankie Callender & Shorty)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/db52_8dANSk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/db52_8dANSk</a>


And here is the great late Maestro adopting Shorty's soca style in 1977 and taking it to another level.
It's a pity this fella died as soca might have been taken permanently international by the late 70's on the same level as reggae was and still remains courtesy of Bob Marley.

Maestro - Play Me (1977 / Arranged by Pelham Goddard)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uwyor0H0UQY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Uwyor0H0UQY</a>


Shadow's distinctive calypso style survived though maybe because his basslines are so catchy and haunting and his lyrics so threatening.

Shadow - The Children Ting (1977 / Arranged by Art DeCoteau)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ywvO1-6kZ18" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ywvO1-6kZ18</a>
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 06:00:45 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2013, 05:12:31 AM »

One factoid I always found interesting is that Clive Bradley arranged Disco Daddy by Nelson. For me it is still one of the best musical intros to a soca song.

 :beermug: :beermug: love that song....underappreciated in my opinion

Hear nah, I looooooovvvvveeee that intro!!!  It sweeeeeeettttt tooooooo bad!! 
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Bitter

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2013, 07:35:12 AM »
SONNET 59

If there be nothing new, but that which is
Hath been before, how are our brains beguiled,
Which, labouring for invention, bear amiss
The second burden of a former child.
O, that record could with a backward look,
Even of five hundred courses of the sun,
Show me your image in some antique book,
Since mind at first in character was done!
That I might see what the old world could say
To this composed wonder of your frame;
Whether we are mended, or whe'er better they,
Or whether revolution be the same.
O, sure I am, the wits of former days
To subjects worse have given admiring praise.

Shakespeare, William
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline fari

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2013, 07:36:40 AM »
that shorty breakdown is tough!!! waays.   question. he mentioned a certain timothy watkins as his percussionist.  is that baron?

also what about rapso?   brother resistance, rhoma spencer, 3 canal and dem

and yes that lord shorty intro from "disco daddy" is the best of all time hands down


bunji trying to push the boundaries...(i hope the vid for this song is better than the one for differentology though)


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CiYTfkvdtNg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/CiYTfkvdtNg</a>


Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2013, 09:31:17 AM »
that shorty breakdown is tough!!! waays.   question. he mentioned a certain timothy watkins as his percussionist.  is that baron?

also what about rapso?   brother resistance, rhoma spencer, 3 canal and dem

and yes that lord shorty intro from "disco daddy" is the best of all time hands down


bunji trying to push the boundaries...(i hope the vid for this song is better than the one for differentology though)


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/CiYTfkvdtNg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/CiYTfkvdtNg</a>


Yes Baron was a percussionist in Shorty's Vibrations International Soca Band as well as a background vocalist and so was Ella Andall.
In fact Shorty is directly responsible for bringing both those artists into the Calypso/Soca Business and starting off their careers.

Regards Rapso, I did mention about Rapso in my opening post to this thread, go back and check properly, it’s there.

I think you meant Lord Nelson and not Lord Shorty in reference to the famous Clive Bradley arranged "Disco Daddy" intro.
In fact as you guys rate it so highly I will post that song here for you'll now!  :beermug:

Lord Nelson - Disco Daddy (1980)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/p9wTcw-0RXo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/p9wTcw-0RXo</a>
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 09:35:55 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Touches

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2013, 09:35:11 AM »
Soca Pro,

What about Kes in 2011 the album with Wotless kinda brought about a techno feel to soca and now most tunes are going that way.

1st Klase I think was the producer with come gyal.

Then you had wine and hush/precision wine in 2012.

Machel's music then changed as well listen to Fog...it is a dance tune.

Then we have differentology with Bunji...that is a techno tune essentially.

I think from 2011-now they realise dance/trance music is the way to go and they jump on that train...moving away from the live band traditional calypso music.

But yuh see the spread yuh hands and leggo tune (Blaxx)...that is a nice riddim. Showing that it can be done once yuh put a lil effort into it.


A for apple, B for Bat, C for yuhself!

Offline FF

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2013, 09:40:06 AM »
Soca Pro,

What about Kes in 2011 the album with Wotless kinda brought about a techno feel to soca and now most tunes are going that way.

1st Klase I think was the producer with come gyal.

Then you had wine and hush/precision wine in 2012.

Machel's music then changed as well listen to Fog...it is a dance tune.

Then we have differentology with Bunji...that is a techno tune essentially.

I think from 2011-now they realise dance/trance music is the way to go and they jump on that train...moving away from the live band traditional calypso music.

But yuh see the spread yuh hands and leggo tune (Blaxx)...that is a nice riddim. Showing that it can be done once yuh put a lil effort into it.

Best tune for the year... maybe in a few years. Real feel good music.
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2013, 09:51:06 AM »
Soca Pro,

What about Kes in 2011 the album with Wotless kinda brought about a techno feel to soca and now most tunes are going that way.

1st Klase I think was the producer with come gyal.

Then you had wine and hush/precision wine in 2012.

Machel's music then changed as well listen to Fog...it is a dance tune.

Then we have differentology with Bunji...that is a techno tune essentially.

I think from 2011-now they realise dance/trance music is the way to go and they jump on that train...moving away from the live band traditional calypso music.

But yuh see the spread yuh hands and leggo tune (Blaxx)...that is a nice riddim. Showing that it can be done once yuh put a lil effort into it.
The Kes tune you are referring to is called "Where Yuh From" produced by Madmen Productions.
Besides for the application of the latest computer technology is the musical fusion in this recent Island Pop stuff that you are referring to anything new or different from what we saw all the way back in 1980 with Nelson's "Disco Daddy" posted a few posts higher up for example?

I don't think so, so as I said nothing really new has been done in soca music since the 90's.

Btw Machel is not new to soca dance fusion music as he has been doing it since the 90's.
Remember this 90's crossover soca dance tune from him?

Machel - "Come Dig It" (Music Video / 1995 Delicious Vinyl)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2b58ott2PTA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/2b58ott2PTA</a>

We can retroactively go back and re-label this as Island Pop today and it will fit the bill quite easily.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 10:04:34 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Bitter

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2013, 11:26:42 AM »
Island Pop?

Limbo - Carl and Carol, 1989

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/I3-DqChA_D8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/I3-DqChA_D8</a>


Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2013, 03:19:51 PM »
Island Pop?

Limbo - Carl and Carol, 1989

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/I3-DqChA_D8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/I3-DqChA_D8</a>
Here is another track from 1989 that we can also consider!

David Rudder - Dark Secrets (1989)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YEDPs3btKhU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/YEDPs3btKhU</a>

As I said nothing new with all this island Pop/Fusion stuff other than the application of the latest technology.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2013, 04:30:52 PM »
It good for Carnival. But if you want to market soca internationally it wont work. Groovy Soca more inline with what could pass.

Foreigners like melody. Not that hardcore jump and wave.


I disagree somewhat. What about "Who let the dogs out" and "I like to move it" by stuntman. You have a point with melody, but then why nothing happen in the 80s which was possibly the most melodious time?

It's possible that outside of the "carnival experience," a lot has to do with people being able to understand the words of the songs we make, and if they cyah understand at least they should be able to dance and sing along. "Who let the dogs out" and "turn me on" have two good hook lines that people could really sing. Dey eh know shit about the rest of the song!
We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline palos

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2013, 07:10:19 AM »
What new has been done in R&B?

Rock?

Reggae?

Soca eh lagging behind any of them IMO
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Socapro

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2013, 06:06:13 PM »
What new has been done in R&B?

Rock?

Reggae?

Soca eh lagging behind any of them IMO
Good point!  :beermug:
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Quags

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2013, 11:46:49 AM »
I miss the horns and my brass bands soooo much .with a little splice of pan for the salt :'(
Since the horns got left behind ,the charm and heart is gone.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 11:49:46 AM by Quags »

Offline Quags

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Re: Soca Debate: Nothing NEW has been done in SOCA music since the 90's!
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2013, 10:47:42 PM »
Soca yes sweet soca ,nothing new eh .

 

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