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Author Topic: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors  (Read 5678 times)

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Offline Deeks

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2013, 08:55:28 AM »
Even before Arthur Suite and Jack, foreign teams, mainly English would visit TT. I remember listening to Coventry/TT in the late 60s. I heard some other Brizilian teams visted in the 60s. I was to young then. I  Saw Chelsea, Southhampton, Nautico, St.Mirren, Hull city. Chelsea, Southhampton and especially Nautico were over 15,000. St.Mirren and Hull were about 10,000. - 12,000. In them days TTFA, QPO and sponsors would share the money. I don't know or think the players got anything(bun and sweet drinks probably). Maybe they use to get money under the table. I don't know. But I doubt it.

After, I left in 77, Jack took over and things went north, south, uphill, downhill. I also remembered quite distinctly going to the Oval for Olimpic(not WC) qualifying games angainst Suriname and B'dos with crowds over 10,000. One of those was close to 15000. So tell Jack Warner he has no monopoly on bringing big sides to TT. That was a normal thing before he took over. He just hijack(no pun intended) the systems and screwed it up.

Also don't forget the Santos 1972 fiasco.

Offline mal jeux

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2013, 09:11:56 AM »
hard truth is that our product on the field is shit! unless you looking to boost morale of your team (by advantaging ah small side) there is no real reason for any 'better' team to play us. we are no longer kings of the caribbean.

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Offline trini_stallion

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2013, 09:34:00 AM »
Correck is right...but cornealius saying benhakker ain't right for us. We hadda start winning games to again become marketable...no shade ah grey there...Trinidad football administration is like de blind leading de blind
Soca in mih vein, Soca in meh blood
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2013, 09:35:32 AM »
hard truth is that our product on the field is shit! unless you looking to boost morale of your team (by advantaging ah small side) there is no real reason for any 'better' team to play us. we are no longer kings of the caribbean.



I don't want to characterize our play in such hash terms. Our players have no confidence when they play for the national team. There is no chemistry among the players. 5 days to to coach and mole a team for international duty is not enough. The Euro season is done. The national team should be back home training and looking for practice game. Seeing that no one wants to play us, ask Ven, Col,Ecuador. Their B team would be good at this time for us. Better than nothing. We can even ask the Brazil and Aegentina to send their B squad. They will be more than a handful for our current team.

Offline Coop's

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2013, 10:14:39 AM »
Deeks,i don't know if my understanding is wrong,for any leagues,games,tournaments Snr/Youth at any level to play in any country isn't it supposed to be sanctioned by the governing body for Football?i know in the US all Football is sanctioned by the USSF,they set the rules and everything.

The reason is this,anything to do with Football their are fees etc etc to be paid to the governing authority,that's how finance is generated.

What i'm trying to say is all these games T&T or clubs play the TTFF and FIFA gets a piece of the pie.   

Offline Socapro

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2013, 10:24:19 AM »
You all can beat around the bush on this topic but we can't get away from the fact that we used to get opponents to play because of the position and weight JW had in World Football,he used to wheel and deal to get opponents to come to T&T.

Like who? Other than England and South Africa, which other big sides he bring down? Actually we got better games when we went abroad.

True, the stronger JW became in international football the less impact entrepreuners were given in the  game and JW would shamelessly criticize them. But who in their right mind wanted to get in bed with Warner. Look at the TTFF or pardon me TTFA and the mess they are presently in.

When Arthur Suite was allowed to promote football, in 24 months, I saw Flemeco (World Club Champs) Paulista Corinthinans, Sweden, Arsenal FC, Gothenburgh (Swedish club champs), India, Tottenham Hotspurs and a few others IN 24 MONTHS!!!!

Now compare that to any five year period over the last two decades.
If JW family wasn't involved - FOKK TT!!!

VB
       You said "when Arthur Suite was allowed to promote Football" i'm now wondering who allowed him too?i don't think it was JW.Who did these teams play against was it ASL,T&T etc etc?who made money from those games?did our Football benefit from it?

Totteham, Sweden and India played against TT.

I don't need to tell you where money went, you should aready know that. What I can tell yo is that the Warner family didn't overbenefit.
I can tell you that at a grassroots level there was a stimulated interest in football.
More importantly the ASL players became our heroes.
Men weren't talking Mariner, Woodcock or Souness, they were now talking about Ron La, Spann, Granville, Brian Williams and Lobo.
Fifteen thousand at a game was a considered a poor turnout.

You need the difference between then and now further explained to you?

You eh serious.

VB
   Breds, listen i'm just trying to create conversation with u,there is nothing in the Then u talking about that i don't know,i used to coach ECM in the Arthur Suite league we were ASL main rivals,may be what u don't realize is that i can go further back than the Then u talking about,that was my time and it have games that were played that i don't see mentioned here.
   I does come on here and try to create conversation with u guys just to hear your ideas and views and men like they does want to fight,u don't have to dislike or hate someone for something they say or do,we have to learn to simply ignore what ever is being said,i ask or say the things i know will get a reaction,once u mention JW the forum lights up so i do have a field day.
Ok, Coops is only trying to keep the forum bubbling so don't take his bringing up of JW's name too serious.   :devil:
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2013, 10:59:42 AM »
The situation with foreign clubs is fairly straightforward: if you want them to come, you have to pay for them.

Big clubs will want more than T&T can guarantee i.e. live TV coverage, opportunities to sell replica jerseys etc. They will also look at the size of the market, and 1.3 million just isn't big enough. USA, Far East etc are more profitable.

For smaller clubs, all they want is a free pre season trip. But that will still cost TT$350k to arrange. The usual people to organise this would be an agent of some kind. But he will want to make some money, which is fair enough. But how? I doubt if you would get more than 1,500 people to a game and you will get some sponsorship. You may be able to cover costs, but I doubt if the agent will make much profit, so again, why would he bother with T&T?

The TTFA, TDC and Ministry of Sport have no funds, so the only way is for a club to do this. That means they have to take the financial gamble and the only possible reward is increased brand awareness, possible player sales and maybe, a little bit of cash. Again, they would think, why bother going to all of that trouble?

But if we are to raise the profile of the Pro League and T&T football, somebody has to take the gamble. It may not reap rewards the first time, but it paves the way to bigger teams in the future. When you set out on a journey into the unknown, the first step is the hardest, but if nobody is brave enough, we'll end up going nowhere.


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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2013, 01:40:16 PM »
The situation with foreign clubs is fairly straightforward: if you want them to come, you have to pay for them.

Big clubs will want more than T&T can guarantee i.e. live TV coverage, opportunities to sell replica jerseys etc. They will also look at the size of the market, and 1.3 million just isn't big enough. USA, Far East etc are more profitable.

For smaller clubs, all they want is a free pre season trip. But that will still cost TT$350k to arrange. The usual people to organise this would be an agent of some kind. But he will want to make some money, which is fair enough. But how? I doubt if you would get more than 1,500 people to a game and you will get some sponsorship. You may be able to cover costs, but I doubt if the agent will make much profit, so again, why would he bother with T&T?

The TTFA, TDC and Ministry of Sport have no funds, so the only way is for a club to do this. That means they have to take the financial gamble and the only possible reward is increased brand awareness, possible player sales and maybe, a little bit of cash. Again, they would think, why bother going to all of that trouble?

But if we are to raise the profile of the Pro League and T&T football, somebody has to take the gamble. It may not reap rewards the first time, but it paves the way to bigger teams in the future. When you set out on a journey into the unknown, the first step is the hardest, but if nobody is brave enough, we'll end up going nowhere.



Beg to differ, countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand do it on a regular basis.
J'ca and the DR Congo also do it just to name a few.

VB
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Offline palos

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2013, 03:44:52 PM »
You all can beat around the bush on this topic but we can't get away from the fact that we used to get opponents to play because of the position and weight JW had in World Football,he used to wheel and deal to get opponents to come to T&T.

Coop's....good to see yuh padnah.  Hope all is well with you and yours.

Wit respeck to dis post, I suspect your're right to a point.  Jack Warner used his position and influence to get T&T games.  But I wouldn't be surprised if those games came attached with a hefty price tag....the majority of which never made its way to TTFF coffers.

I've been informed of numerous instances where T&T went idle during international breaks....not because we couldn't get opponents to play us...but because we couldn't get opponents to PAY us...even though they would have foot the cost of airfare, accomodation, ground transportation, and meals.  The "appearance fee" was often times too much and other federations....who always looking for practice matches....simply didn't want to give in to the "robbery"

Perhaps we have a situation now where we actually have to arrange practice matches on our own.  From what I understand there are numerous brokers out there who's job it is to arrange these matches.  But you have to be organised.  You have to be documentation etc in order.  And it would help if you have a competitive team.

Yuh ever wonder how T&T end up in Estonia and Romania to play games?  Where that $$$ comin from? TTFF cyah even pay the players and coaches but they goin Europe?  Likely is Estonia and Romania Federations that foot most of the bills and choose T&T because they NEED the practice....and T&T available.  National teams not like club sides that playing every week.  They get together quite rarely by comparison so some of them DESPERATE for matches. 

That should tell yuh just how much matches we SHOULD HAVE BEEN GETTING back in the day...when the team had a name...with name players etc.  Is not that T&T football was the major beneficiary of the Soca Warriors, Strike Squad success and Jack derive a little spin off benefit from that.  In fact...it was quite the opposite with emphasis on the "LITTLE" spin off for both teams.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 03:46:39 PM by palos »
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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2013, 03:49:40 PM »
The situation with foreign clubs is fairly straightforward: if you want them to come, you have to pay for them.

Big clubs will want more than T&T can guarantee i.e. live TV coverage, opportunities to sell replica jerseys etc. They will also look at the size of the market, and 1.3 million just isn't big enough. USA, Far East etc are more profitable.

For smaller clubs, all they want is a free pre season trip. But that will still cost TT$350k to arrange. The usual people to organise this would be an agent of some kind. But he will want to make some money, which is fair enough. But how? I doubt if you would get more than 1,500 people to a game and you will get some sponsorship. You may be able to cover costs, but I doubt if the agent will make much profit, so again, why would he bother with T&T?

The TTFA, TDC and Ministry of Sport have no funds, so the only way is for a club to do this. That means they have to take the financial gamble and the only possible reward is increased brand awareness, possible player sales and maybe, a little bit of cash. Again, they would think, why bother going to all of that trouble?

But if we are to raise the profile of the Pro League and T&T football, somebody has to take the gamble. It may not reap rewards the first time, but it paves the way to bigger teams in the future. When you set out on a journey into the unknown, the first step is the hardest, but if nobody is brave enough, we'll end up going nowhere.



Beg to differ, countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand do it on a regular basis.
J'ca and the DR Congo also do it just to name a few.

VB

VB, I didn't say that nobody in the world does this, I simply explained the financial factors. You've given no examples of the clubs and how the trips were financed to Jamaica and DRC. (But I would imagine both nations would have more fans at a game than T&T) However, as I clearly stated, USA, Far East etc are more profitable. 

Offline Coop's

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2013, 04:00:45 PM »
Again thanks Palos and FS through my stupid posts/questions for explaining to the forum the dynamics of promoting games,in other words it's not as simple as it seems,u don't just say i want to play a team and they will play u,there are a lot of different scenarios that takes place before someone plays u.

Offline socalion

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2013, 04:19:44 PM »
Has anyone   ever noticed  after our national team arrives home from playing any sort of friendly or friendlies , there are hadly any updates as to the team's preparations /activities/  currently as should be the case to keep the fans abreast  of any news surrounding national team??   how do they expect the fans to be passionate about our national football teams??  its crying shame . imagine since their ( the national team's ) return to local soil . its anyone's guess as to what sort of active preparation is taking place, come on hutson charles and company shed some frigging light ..... how are preparations going we want to know !!! why not play some games against a combined local pro league team / or an allstar tobago outfit in order  work on the teams chemistry instead of keeping the team idle ..... just some food for thought.... oh jeeez  its getting to crunch time  , with just  about a month left  before the gold cup kicks off  what really going ??

Offline palos

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2013, 06:04:39 PM »
Has anyone   ever noticed  after our national team arrives home from playing any sort of friendly or friendlies , there are hadly any updates as to the team's preparations /activities/  currently as should be the case to keep the fans abreast  of any news surrounding national team??   how do they expect the fans to be passionate about our national football teams??  its crying shame . imagine since their ( the national team's ) return to local soil . its anyone's guess as to what sort of active preparation is taking place, come on hutson charles and company shed some frigging light ..... how are preparations going we want to know !!! why not play some games against a combined local pro league team / or an allstar tobago outfit in order  work on the teams chemistry instead of keeping the team idle ..... just some food for thought.... oh jeeez  its getting to crunch time  , with just  about a month left  before the gold cup kicks off  what really going ??

It hard for fans to be passionate about local football when they turn on dey TV and see Spain U21 playin de kinda ball that they do.

It not fair to the players and it not fair to de fans, but it is what it is.
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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2013, 06:19:40 PM »
Palos i hear yuh ....!!

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2013, 06:41:59 PM »
I saw Marvin Phillip yesterday. I believe the squad trained at Ato Boldon today.

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2013, 10:00:18 PM »
Aye, Tiny Tim, you clueless f@#k, let me give you an idea. Fire this numbskull and hire Fenwick as your technical director and let us move on with the program and while you are at it, get rid of Watson and the tag team you have coaching the national team. Charles may have needed some help but not "the chin".

Wonder how Central would feel about this?


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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2013, 11:25:28 PM »
Aye, Tiny Tim, you clueless f@#k, let me give you an idea. Fire this numbskull and hire Fenwick as your technical director and let us move on with the program and while you are at it, get rid of Watson and the tag team you have coaching the national team. Charles may have needed some help but not "the chin".

Wonder how Central would feel about this?


They would have to live without him.

With the compensation, Central can get Don Leo for a month. Apparently that's all he needs to create a winning team. Then we can relax while we win the league and all of the cups.  :devil:

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2013, 01:55:37 AM »
Tahiti playing Nigeria next week.  ;D
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Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2013, 03:51:32 AM »
Tough to find opponents? I am not buying that. Tell me  how come Haiti could find quality opponents? What is their economy like? Do they have the  infrastructure to have a pro league? Do they have the depth of foreign based players? So what then is the distinguishing quality that sets them apart from us?

Tough to find opponents?  Call upon Venezuela, for that matter stat at ground zero to build we confidence call India, politically this should get support and draw a crowd!!!! Call Bermuda, Turks and Cacios, Samoa, Bangladesh, Vietnam, call Ethiopia, call  call call yuh go find opponents. Get off yuh frigging arses and develop a plan . Take on some countries to buss licks on bud team confidence then challenge the mighty Guyana and buss they arse for the embarrassment they put on we then call Brazil.

Yeah it eh that we cyst find opponents is that the ones we want to dance with eh have the inclination to do so. When yuh at the bottom of the barrel yuh have to find those lower than you.  Next put all them jackasses who eh want to play fib we on ah team and play them play ah pro league team play out women's national team just play someone yuh think we could score on. Yuh eh see we could find opponents Have some fun with this while you are with it TTFA

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2013, 12:37:37 PM »
There are a host of problems leading to the reason why the ttfa cannot find a good game and one of them could be that for the most part the better teams would rather play someone as good as them or better than them. Playing against the TT national team or even beating them is a false positive. It's not an adequate measure of where you are in your game plan going forward. It's ironic that the statement was made by the technical deductor of football. This is an individual that has been in the position for a while now, yet, he has not conducted any press conferences to lay out a development structure and template for football development in this country. This is a very crucial role as we continue to strive towards improving the technical ability and knowledge of our players and coaches at every level both now and in the future. Any federation needs someone who is responsible for the strategic direction in terms of technical matters and Trinidad and Tobago is no different. He also has to be diplomatic to work with those clubs who may not agree with his development plans.
Then and only then when a development structure and technical strategy is established and implemented, sponsors jump on board, and the national programme, both at the elite and grassroots levels, are addressed, examined and adjusted, the level of  professionalism and knowledge of the game is widely addressed and emphasized, will the ttfa find quality opponents to play.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 12:43:16 PM by King Deese »
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Offline Mose

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2013, 07:33:24 AM »
You all can beat around the bush on this topic but we can't get away from the fact that we used to get opponents to play because of the position and weight JW had in World Football,he used to wheel and deal to get opponents to come to T&T.

Like who? Other than England and South Africa, which other big sides he bring down? Actually we got better games when we went abroad.

True, the stronger JW became in international football the less impact entrepreuners were given in the  game and JW would shamelessly criticize them. But who in their right mind wanted to get in bed with Warner. Look at the TTFF or pardon me TTFA and the mess they are presently in.

When Arthur Suite was allowed to promote football, in 24 months, I saw Flemeco (World Club Champs) Paulista Corinthinans, Sweden, Arsenal FC, Gothenburgh (Swedish club champs), India, Tottenham Hotspurs and a few others IN 24 MONTHS!!!!

Now compare that to any five year period over the last two decades.
If JW family wasn't involved - FOKK TT!!!

VB
       You said "when Arthur Suite was allowed to promote Football" i'm now wondering who allowed him too?i don't think it was JW.Who did these teams play against was it ASL,T&T etc etc?who made money from those games?did our Football benefit from it?

Totteham, Sweden and India played against TT.

I don't need to tell you where money went, you should aready know that. What I can tell yo is that the Warner family didn't overbenefit.
I can tell you that at a grassroots level there was a stimulated interest in football.
More importantly the ASL players became our heroes.
Men weren't talking Mariner, Woodcock or Souness, they were now talking about Ron La, Spann, Granville, Brian Williams and Lobo.
Fifteen thousand at a game was a considered a poor turnout.

You need the difference between then and now further explained to you?

You eh serious.

VB
   Breds, listen i'm just trying to create conversation with u,there is nothing in the Then u talking about that i don't know,i used to coach ECM in the Arthur Suite league we were ASL main rivals,may be what u don't realize is that i can go further back than the Then u talking about,that was my time and it have games that were played that i don't see mentioned here.
   I does come on here and try to create conversation with u guys just to hear your ideas and views and men like they does want to fight,u don't have to dislike or hate someone for something they say or do,we have to learn to simply ignore what ever is being said,i ask or say the things i know will get a reaction,once u mention JW the forum lights up so i do have a field day.

Well Coops I used to worry about your state of mental health but now I think I can say I get where yuh coming from. Mightn't always agree with it but ah get it. :beermug:
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Offline Sando

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2013, 02:00:34 AM »
I hope now we may be in line for more friendly games after our performance at the 2013 Gold Cup.


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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2013, 04:17:28 AM »
We ha that saudi tournament
Soca in mih vein, Soca in meh blood
Soca in yuh vein, Soca in blood,
Soca in we vein, Soca in we blood,
It's a heart of love, can't deny soca, cuz its good fuh de soul...
Trinidad and Tobago jump up now!

Offline Deeks

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2013, 05:25:16 PM »
We ha that saudi tournament

We could do with some games now, while we fresh from the GC tournament. Use the local guys. Keep them match fit and ready.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2013, 07:14:49 PM »
Tough to find opponents? I am not buying that. Tell me  how come Haiti could find quality opponents? What is their economy like? Do they have the  infrastructure to have a pro league? Do they have the depth of foreign based players? So what then is the distinguishing quality that sets them apart from us?

Tough to find opponents?  Call upon Venezuela, for that matter stat at ground zero to build we confidence call India, politically this should get support and draw a crowd!!!! Call Bermuda, Turks and Cacios, Samoa, Bangladesh, Vietnam, call Ethiopia, call  call call yuh go find opponents. Get off yuh frigging arses and develop a plan . Take on some countries to buss licks on bud team confidence then challenge the mighty Guyana and buss they arse for the embarrassment they put on we then call Brazil.

Yeah it eh that we cyst find opponents is that the ones we want to dance with eh have the inclination to do so. When yuh at the bottom of the barrel yuh have to find those lower than you.  Next put all them jackasses who eh want to play for we on ah team and play them play ah pro league team play out women's national team just play someone yuh think we could score on. Yuh eh see we could find opponents Have some fun with this while you are with it TTFA

Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2013, 08:11:18 PM »
coops let jack warner stay as  far as away possible from our nations football/soccer .....we don't want his wheeling and dealing no more , coops   breds   this is not about  beating around the bush thing , let jack warner stay where he is ... enough already about being influential in getting viable opponents when he was with fifa and all the jazz..... its a new page  lets move on from jack warner.... 

 :beermug:
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Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2013, 08:19:50 PM »
You all can beat around the bush on this topic but we can't get away from the fact that we used to get opponents to play because of the position and weight JW had in World Football,he used to wheel and deal to get opponents to come to T&T.

Like who? Other than England and South Africa, which other big sides he bring down? Actually we got better games when we went abroad.
:timeout:

Coop don't make me laugh!!

the last time jack organized a good game for T&T was when england was touting his votes in 2008, after that we didn't have a decent friendly until we went to chile just before the hex where we set up a camp there for two weeks under maturana, we played boca juniors C team and the 2nd string chilian local based team.

after that we played teams like guyana, haiti, el salvador, jamaica in the office, st kitts, antigua, guyana ah couple more times, jamaica @ the marvin lee, dominican rep, and belize.

after jack was ousted we played india, and then finland and canada, then timkee took over and we played about five friendlies in succession, each on a FIFA calender date,

 peru twice, belize and the two eropean teams romania and estonia , which in fact was our best friendlies in the space of five yrs, the last being the mamaguye game with england.

coop ah losing plenty respect for you meh bredder!!

it baffles me that you could say these things with ah straight face and a clean heart, bc jack warner IMO was the worst thing that ever happened to T&T football, and that is clear as ah bright summer sky, and if i was a gambling man i would put good money on the fact that jack warner never cared about football period, especially in T&T! but used football as a means to an end.

come on coop   :shameonyou:

True talk.  :beermug:
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Offline coache

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Re: Corneal: Tough to find opponents for Soca Warriors
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2013, 10:26:44 PM »
Jack Warner..de worst thing to happen to Trinidad Football..everything he did was for his benefit.