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Author Topic: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?  (Read 3136 times)

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Offline Sam

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Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« on: July 29, 2013, 11:42:38 AM »
Or do they have to play Zonal football to get promoted ?

To many leagues in T&T, something must be done.

De Super League gets more sponsors, players are paid better, they get jobs with the companies and they draw a bigger crowd.

Maybe we need to hire a Super League CEO to replace Larry Romany and Dexter Skeene, 10 years and we cant get it together.

Where is the fixture for next season, when will we get it, a week before kick off.

In any case, how much will it cost to operate a zonal or super league team ?

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Offline Jay10

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 12:06:24 PM »
any team can qualify for the Super League. Once they win their zone, and come in the top 2 of the COC competition. ( COC is the winners of all the zones playing in a one round mini league against each other)

The Super League has an entrance (registration) fee of $30,000 tt.

Unlike the Pro League, players dont have to be paid as the league is not professional. Some teams however, try to get jobs for their players.

truth is, the super League will always have more crowd support because of the home grounds associated with the teams. For eg. Guaya Utd will get that entire area to come to their home games.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 02:00:34 PM »
Or do they have to play Zonal football to get promoted ?

To many leagues in T&T, something must be done.

De Super League gets more sponsors, players are paid better, they get jobs with the companies and they draw a bigger crowd.

Maybe we need to hire a Super League CEO to replace Larry Romany and Dexter Skeene, 10 years and we cant get it together.

Where is the fixture for next season, when will we get it, a week before kick off.

In any case, how much will it cost to operate a zonal or super league team ?



Sam, boy, you hadda stop churning out the same criticisms. If knowledgeable people like you keep repeating this mantra, the less informed will believe it and repeat it.

We know why they get bigger crowds. They play on inferior fields in the heart of their community. In many cases, they don't charge anything to watch the games. The only players I know who get better salaries are one or two marquee players and of course, Anil's pet team. There are many sponsors who would provide jobs. But jobs are no use to professional players! However, S.I.S. have pledged to help Central F.C. players get work after football.

However, I will agree to one thing. Playing in the Super League helps a club build a supporter base. T&TEC had great support, and I imagine if any of this years teams joins the Pro League, they will have a hardcore fan base, which is great. I think the Super League is great for the Pro League and there should be more official interaction.

Offline Andre

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2013, 03:11:16 PM »
speaking of guaya, look at people!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z8nUvlX8Obc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Z8nUvlX8Obc</a>

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2013, 03:13:11 PM »
More crowd than Pro League. This is how I knew football when I was younger
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Offline FF

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2013, 03:21:57 PM »
More crowd than Pro League. This is how I knew football when I was younger

Ent, this remind meh of watching Ballplayers in the Mang on a weekend afternoon. Fack away with all them white elephant stadiums.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 03:46:20 PM »
More crowd than Pro League. This is how I knew football when I was younger

Ent, this remind meh of watching Ballplayers in the Mang on a weekend afternoon. Fack away with all them white elephant stadiums.
Bring back football to the communities!

FF, the stadiums are not white elephants. They are not used in a proper manner. And quite rightly one has to pay to use the stadium.What needs to be done is to put turf field grounds in some of the communities so that players will not be playing on atrocious playing fields. A turf field can hold up in a one field community better than the grass field. 

But it was nice seeing the crowd at the game. As D.H.W says, that is how the older folks on this thread knew football. This bring back memories of our 74 youth team playing Atlantico Mayaro at the rec. ground, 74 team vs Point at Mahaica, 74 team vs Central St. George league at Constantine Park, 74 youths vs Diego team in Diego.  Bing string we up with a bullet. Essex vs Greyhound Dovers at the opening of the Valencia rec. league or games in the QPS. Real nice. If TTFA continue to do this kind of things, we WILL see people travel to the white elephants to see the NT play in the future.

Offline vb

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 04:22:02 PM »
More crowd than Pro League. This is how I knew football when I was younger

Ent, this remind meh of watching Ballplayers in the Mang on a weekend afternoon. Fack away with all them white elephant stadiums.
Bring back football to the communities!

FF, the stadiums are not white elephants. They are not used in a proper manner. And quite rightly one has to pay to use the stadium.What needs to be done is to put turf field grounds in some of the communities so that players will not be playing on atrocious playing fields. A turf field can hold up in a one field community better than the grass field. 

But it was nice seeing the crowd at the game. As D.H.W says, that is how the older folks on this thread knew football. This bring back memories of our 74 youth team playing Atlantico Mayaro at the rec. ground, 74 team vs Point at Mahaica, 74 team vs Central St. George league at Constantine Park, 74 youths vs Diego team in Diego.  Bing string we up with a bullet. Essex vs Greyhound Dovers at the opening of the Valencia rec. league or games in the QPS. Real nice. If TTFA continue to do this kind of things, we WILL see people travel to the white elephants to see the NT play in the future.

Fortunate enough to have world class stadia throughout the country and ppl saying fack away with them.

Deeks, you right. It's just a matter of proper usage.

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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 04:23:58 PM »
Nice crowds, nice video. Well done to Tony Harford who is breathing life into the Super League and building the brand nicely. It was good to see Phillips and Hart there too.

You see the same crowds at Jamaican games and also on some other islands.

But this is a totally different beast to Pro League. I'd love to play Central F.C. games locally, not even Chaguanas or Couva or Gilbert Park, but right here in California. Caldrac Cricket club had 4,000 people watching Guyana play cricket here. The communities are starved of decent live sport.

But it is financially and practically impossible without a lot of input from the local corporations. The field needs 50-100k spent to produce a decent surface and then needs to be protected and maintained. The boundary fences need repairing so that money can be charged at the gates. You need security in case an idiot gets onto the field. You need decent changing rooms for players and officials.

You need to hire portaloos, tents, sound system.

What happens if you spend all that money and it rains so you get 50 people?

Plus, as nice as it is, is this how we want our professional football to look? Do we want to go backwards?
Everywhere there is decent professional football, clubs have their own stadiums. Shouldn't that be the way to go? Provide a more comfortable, safer match day experience?

We tried for two years to get North East playing in Grande and it just wasn't possible. I'd love for Central to play a couple of games like this, but on our own, it won't happen. We struggle to find a decent surface to train on.

The Pro League needs help from local and national government. But it appears that T&T's most popular sport isn't a high priority.

But a strong Super League can only help improve the Pro League.

Offline Bally

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 04:24:32 PM »
freeness
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Offline palos

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 05:26:28 PM »
Nice crowds, nice video. Well done to Tony Harford who is breathing life into the Super League and building the brand nicely. It was good to see Phillips and Hart there too.

You see the same crowds at Jamaican games and also on some other islands.

But this is a totally different beast to Pro League. I'd love to play Central F.C. games locally, not even Chaguanas or Couva or Gilbert Park, but right here in California. Caldrac Cricket club had 4,000 people watching Guyana play cricket here. The communities are starved of decent live sport.

But it is financially and practically impossible without a lot of input from the local corporations. The field needs 50-100k spent to produce a decent surface and then needs to be protected and maintained. The boundary fences need repairing so that money can be charged at the gates. You need security in case an idiot gets onto the field. You need decent changing rooms for players and officials.

You need to hire portaloos, tents, sound system.

What happens if you spend all that money and it rains so you get 50 people?

Plus, as nice as it is, is this how we want our professional football to look? Do we want to go backwards?
Everywhere there is decent professional football, clubs have their own stadiums. Shouldn't that be the way to go? Provide a more comfortable, safer match day experience?

We tried for two years to get North East playing in Grande and it just wasn't possible. I'd love for Central to play a couple of games like this, but on our own, it won't happen. We struggle to find a decent surface to train on.

The Pro League needs help from local and national government. But it appears that T&T's most popular sport isn't a high priority.

But a strong Super League can only help improve the Pro League.

You make strong arguments.

There are so many components that go into making a successful product that it may be overwhelming when thinking about the sheer enormity of it all.

Perhaps breaking each component down to a single unit may help to make it more manageable and achievable.

Everything you say there is 100% valid and true.  But then you listen to the Hughton Hector interview and it drives home the important role that a vibrant crowd and prestige plays in player motivation.  If the players are motivated, the product can only benefit.

So all the components have to come together for a successful product.  The facilities, the security, the organization, the atmosphere, highly motivated players, creative marketing, media coverage...all combine to make a successful product.

You have to define what a successful product will look like, then work backwards.  Have the vision of that successful product, then determine what it will take (components) to achieve it.  Once that's determined, then find the necessary resources to implement each component, all the while keeping the vision at the forefront.

Easier said than done....but not impossible.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 05:50:38 PM »
One problem also is if that  is the  only  field in a community. If that field is share with  cricket and is used by the regular community for every event. It will be difficult for it to be maintained. I always said that Aranguez should have a turf-field mini stadium. That could serve teams from Champs Fleur to Morvant. Orange grove/ Eddie Hart could support Arouca to Tunapuna. The Velodrome could be resurfaced with a turf field and will be used for Arima/Dabadie. Grande should have it own. I pulling hair out of my balled-head in fustration, as I typing this.

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 08:11:18 PM »
Palos/Deeks  why can't a community have a dedicated gfootball pitch and a dedicated cricket field? Also, investment by corporations/SPORTT in plastic surfaces would probably pay for itself in saved maintenance costs over 10 years, although as we can see from Marvin Lee, if you don't maintain the plastic, it becomes very poor after 8 - 10 years.

The stadiums aren't good for football. Any pitch with a running track leaves the crowd too detached from the action. Players love the atmosphere of a crowd, but they prefer a stadium like Old Trafford to Hasely Crawford. Ironically, the best stadium for atmosphere is Marvin Lee! 

Offline Jay10

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2013, 10:14:40 PM »
Not trying to get political here, but the Tarouba stadium could have built/refurbished 10 football fields to professional playing standard. even 10 cricket grounds also. 10 tennis courts, 2 swimming pools...you get my point.

Its not about freeness. people would pay to see football. Its entertainment.





Offline Deeks

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2013, 10:33:10 PM »
Not trying to get political here, but the Tarouba stadium could have built/refurbished 10 football fields to professional playing standard. even 10 cricket grounds also. 10 tennis courts, 2 swimming pools...you get my point.

Its not about freeness. people would pay to see football. Its entertainment.






The Tarouba was a good idea. The stadium was to be a international stadium for South. Everything does play up in "tong". The issue is the dotishness that Patrick allowed to happened. He should have come down hard on Karamath to completed the damn stadium. The people of South deserved a first class cricket stadium.

Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2013, 08:15:44 AM »
Mayaro Utd was my team.  Used to go watch them versus Army, Trintoc, Carib Airport Authority, and the likes.   They gotta find a way to take football back to the local communities.  That is how the game thrived, because fans felt an allegiance to their local teams.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2013, 08:45:40 AM »
I think Mayaro still have a team??
Football must continue to thrive at this level. Every nation has a pyramid system that develops players. Like any pyramid, the broad base is actually the strongest component, though, of course, everyone looks at the top of the pyramid first.

Offline KND2

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2013, 02:19:03 PM »
since when proleague can play on bumpee surface.

man get professional and loss they mind

Play the game where the crowd will come.

if it have no fence put a rope
if the ground have hole
walk around with bucket and throw sand in the hole before the game start

if in front the goal have water , walk with a yard broom

we get too big for we self if we feel pro league cannot play on "bad" grounds


You have to play where the fans will come build up the base and then move to the stadium.


creep before you crawl


for big big gold cup they was walking round with bucket of sand to thrown on dig up grass that was layed over artificial turf in georgia and cowboys stadium.

why not play in grass stadium to begin with?
Because Gold cup people realize it is all about which stadium they can sell the most tickets for.

cowboys stadium have more seats than dallas FC stadium make it work......

who vex they vex

but we pro league cannot play on bumpee ground..........


nice to know.

btw

who build the stadium in these "remote" locations to begin with.

Maybe these stadium was about getting money out of FIFA versus actually putting them in location where it makes the most long term sense.
Maybe.

Offline Coop's

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2013, 02:48:15 PM »
First to begin with the stadiums were built with a professional league in mind,it was also built with the hosting of the Youth WC in mind,the only other thing i could think they were built for is cultural shows and fete matches.

Anybody ever played in front the Gran Stand,PSA or King George v Pk ?especially PSA these grounds were poor,it was amazing to see the quality of Football played on these grounds,KND2 looks like someone who knows what i'm talking about,since when we complaining about ground?

If we wait to get quality grounds to play/practice on it will never happen,no one respects playing surfaces in T&T,my experiences in the US was if rain only set up they cancelling games.

The bottom line is our players have to play it does not matter where they play,we can't rest no ground Football playing year round plus every day is swet and fete matches or fete how are we going to have good grounds to play on.

Our mentality has to change,ppl on here must be the only ppl that cares about Football,those that responsible for those stadiums eh care because they don't have to play on them.   

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2013, 03:05:18 PM »
KND, it's nice to see you keeping up!

who build the stadium in these "remote" locations to begin with.

Maybe these stadium was about getting money out of FIFA versus actually putting them in location where it makes the most long term sense.


This is all part of Jack's legacy. These stadiums were built for (I think) the U20 or U17 world cup. Why were they located in those spots? Maybe because that's how money could be made from the deal?

But, it has to be said, at least we got some stadiums out of it.

As for your comments about Pro League and crawling before you can walk, well hasn't football been crawling for decades before we "walked" and formed a Pro League? This country is decades behind developing a decent league. What we are facing, clubs in other countries faced back in the 70's. But the problem is, every club in every country faced those problems together. We're still catching up.

Now we all want to play sexy passing football, but you want to do that on a bumpy field, and it don't matter if the national centre forward breaks his ankle down in Guaya. Make your mind up. Do you want decent football or kick and run? Even the stadiums would barely pass as training pitches for clubs like Chelsea and Barca.

From what many people say, lets just fold the Pro League, use amateur coaches to develop guys who do a full days work in a factory, then, magically,  all these talented amateur players will use their natural abilities to force their way into La Liga, Bundesliga and the EPL, regardless of the fact that they're unfit, have no tactical awareness, no self discipline and cannot pass a ball along the ground.

Rather than keep criticizing, people need to petition their local M.P. and Corporation and get them to recognise that bringing professional football to a community is a sound financial plan. Get them to dedicate a field, prepare it, maintain it and rent it to a Pro League team or work out a profit sharing plan.

Everybody wants change, but very few are prepared to make any effort, but instead prefer to criticise those that are trying. 

Offline Jay10

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2013, 04:58:00 PM »
The Pro League must be the structure for churning out national players. It has been proven that once players are brought into the league at the right age (15-18), they could go on to become tnT internationals. (see hyland, molino, peltier, primus,hector,cyrus, bateau, plaza)

I dont know if it was suggested before, but maybe the government could even give these kids a stipend to help out the clubs. for eg Gov't funds 5-8 players under the age of 21 per club. 

Gives us a bigger pool of young pros

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2013, 05:37:16 PM »
The Pro League must be the structure for churning out national players. It has been proven that once players are brought into the league at the right age (15-18), they could go on to become tnT internationals. (see hyland, molino, peltier, primus,hector,cyrus, bateau, plaza)

I dont know if it was suggested before, but maybe the government could even give these kids a stipend to help out the clubs. for eg Gov't funds 5-8 players under the age of 21 per club. 

Gives us a bigger pool of young pros

A stipend would be nice, but it would be better spent on developing gifted 14 -16 year olds. One problem these kids can have is travelling to and from training and that puts a strain on parents and clubs.

Offline g

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2013, 09:07:30 AM »
This is where a National Sport Policy comes into play. A situation like the example above if there was a policy, and from it you can develop a program to simply build the infrastructure around the support base. Once the land is available you build a proper field (or two, one for league games and another that is recreational), two low maintenance bleachers on either side, toilet and change facilities, some perimeter fencing and signage. You invest 2 million for each ground around the country with a recurrent budget of about 50k a year for maintenance. All the local club has to do is bring the proposal and let it go before a board for sanctioning. The key is that it must stay within the community.

If you can develop 20 or 25 of these kind of ground across the country, either some clubs by their own development will grow and come through the semi professional and professional ranks or they become feeders for other clubs and bigger franchises

The government spends hundreds of millions of dollars in wasteful initiatives. These are the things that have all kind of auxiliary benefits of crime reduction, community building etc. If we were a country that was struggling economically i could understand but T&T has the resources but unfortunately we lack the vision. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 09:10:58 AM by g »
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Offline Coop's

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2013, 12:39:23 PM »
This is where a National Sport Policy comes into play. A situation like the example above if there was a policy, and from it you can develop a program to simply build the infrastructure around the support base. Once the land is available you build a proper field (or two, one for league games and another that is recreational), two low maintenance bleachers on either side, toilet and change facilities, some perimeter fencing and signage. You invest 2 million for each ground around the country with a recurrent budget of about 50k a year for maintenance. All the local club has to do is bring the proposal and let it go before a board for sanctioning. The key is that it must stay within the community.

If you can develop 20 or 25 of these kind of ground across the country, either some clubs by their own development will grow and come through the semi professional and professional ranks or they become feeders for other clubs and bigger franchises

The government spends hundreds of millions of dollars in wasteful initiatives. These are the things that have all kind of auxiliary benefits of crime reduction, community building etc. If we were a country that was struggling economically i could understand but T&T has the resources but unfortunately we lack the vision. 
     G all your suggestions/ideas makes sense but i guess u have been living abroad for some time and not updated on the situation at home.

In T&T it have hundreds of recreation grounds ,community centers with bathroom and showers which are usually locked,Pavillion,exercise equipment,lights etc etc but i'm ashamed to say they are delapidated and ppl on here still talking about building community fields,why don't they give these recreation grounds to clubs to maintain.

You know something try and check any of our recreation facilities the Toilets and bathroom facilities are either stolen or destroyed,the same ppl who work there CEPEP etc goes with them,the ppl who build them takes them,could u imagine they theif a bridge yes a bridge.

The thing is from the time u say community it's freeco for the community and no one has control of it,the one where i live a Car park on it every night,two Cows are always tied there and don't talk for Dog shyt try not to fall,what beats me that field has lights.

All what you all are saying is good eh but not in T&T no my friend,something has to be done i can't say how it should be done or who should do it. 

Offline g

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2013, 09:32:03 PM »
This is where a National Sport Policy comes into play. A situation like the example above if there was a policy, and from it you can develop a program to simply build the infrastructure around the support base. Once the land is available you build a proper field (or two, one for league games and another that is recreational), two low maintenance bleachers on either side, toilet and change facilities, some perimeter fencing and signage. You invest 2 million for each ground around the country with a recurrent budget of about 50k a year for maintenance. All the local club has to do is bring the proposal and let it go before a board for sanctioning. The key is that it must stay within the community.

If you can develop 20 or 25 of these kind of ground across the country, either some clubs by their own development will grow and come through the semi professional and professional ranks or they become feeders for other clubs and bigger franchises

The government spends hundreds of millions of dollars in wasteful initiatives. These are the things that have all kind of auxiliary benefits of crime reduction, community building etc. If we were a country that was struggling economically i could understand but T&T has the resources but unfortunately we lack the vision. 
     G all your suggestions/ideas makes sense but i guess u have been living abroad for some time and not updated on the situation at home.

In T&T it have hundreds of recreation grounds ,community centers with bathroom and showers which are usually locked,Pavillion,exercise equipment,lights etc etc but i'm ashamed to say they are delapidated and ppl on here still talking about building community fields,why don't they give these recreation grounds to clubs to maintain.

You know something try and check any of our recreation facilities the Toilets and bathroom facilities are either stolen or destroyed,the same ppl who work there CEPEP etc goes with them,the ppl who build them takes them,could u imagine they theif a bridge yes a bridge.

The thing is from the time u say community it's freeco for the community and no one has control of it,the one where i live a Car park on it every night,two Cows are always tied there and don't talk for Dog shyt try not to fall,what beats me that field has lights.

All what you all are saying is good eh but not in T&T no my friend,something has to be done i can't say how it should be done or who should do it. 

Coops yes i've lived abroad but I've migrated back home and been home for more than 8 years.

I am well aware of what you speak off, key to my original argument was facilities management. We like to build but we can't maintain with the right rigor, discipline and understanding the true cost of what that means.

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Offline Deeks

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Re: Cost to launch a new Super League club in T&T?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2013, 10:30:55 PM »
When they built Jpierre and HCS, they had MTS doing mantainence work on all the facilities. Everything was decent, not superb. But things falling apart. Who doing the bulk of the maintenance now?