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Offline A.B.

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Time for a reality check
« on: August 29, 2013, 07:33:31 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/Time-for-a-reality-check-221585971.html

No credit given to a writer. I guess it's Bovell.

Time for a reality check
By George Bovell (T&T Express)
Story Created: Aug 29, 2013 at 12:13 AM ECT


I might be in a unique position to fully appreciate what sport does for Trinidad and Tobago internationally. I remember in 2001 when coach Anil Roberts and I attended the World Championships in f**koka, Japan and placed fourth in the 200m IM, few people in swimming knew what country our flag represented or could locate Trinidad and Tobago on a map.
 
Over the course of representing the Red, White and Black, there have been countless instances where people have initially written me off as some Third World, wannabe athlete, lumped in with the likes of Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Myanmar when I say that I come from a country that they have absolutely never heard of before.
This truth is hard to imagine when living here, except perhaps when trying to obtain a visa for travel. Many of us seem to think of Trinidad as the centre of the universe. Now, I am proud to say that in the sport of swimming, Trinidad and Tobago is renowned, and more importantly we are feared and respected by the rest of the world. It is because I am aware of that international ignorance and inconsequential attitude towards Trinidad and Tobago in general, that I take such pride in the sporting success of our country.

Hasely Crawford, Keshorn Walcott, Jehue Gordon, Ato Boldon, Richard Thompson, Wendell Motley, Edwin Skinner, Lalonde Gordon, Brian Lara and Dwight Yorke, just to name a few, have done an invaluable service to our country over the course of our 51-year history. They have and continue to earn us respect around the world. By showcasing our talented athletes, the nation will gain more in terms of growing our nation’s esteem and becoming internationally renowned than Carnival of Pan ever could.
That is the power of sport.

It is because I take such tremendous pride in our top athletes and their sporting accomplishments that I naturally want the Red, White, and Black to become fashionable and synonymous with success, I might add, in the way that Jamaica is becoming. However, I see some serious obstacles in our way, the greatest being the mindset of our general population.

This is intended to be brutally honest. Take it as you will. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Some people are optimists, some are pessimists. I aspire to be a realist.
There are some aspects of our unique Trinbagonian culture and general perspective on life that I believe are severely limiting our potential. Since I have returned home, I am noticing the difference in mentality everywhere and I feel compelled to address what I can in the limited space provided.
This perspective is mostly evident in sport, but due to its pervasiveness, it seems ubiquitous in our daily lives. Perhaps the reason I even notice the sharp contrast is due to the fact that for the past few months, I have been abroad and surrounded by some very successful individuals, athletes and teams.
Let’s be honest with ourselves, fellow Trinbagonians. I get so fed up of hearing about the power of positive thinking.

I am not sure where this blind faith idea comes from, whether the idea is from Oprah, or the book entitled “The Secret” or what? I am constantly hearing phrases like “Don’t worry, just think positive and we will win,” or “Just ask God,” or “Think positive, put it out into the universe,” reiterated everywhere. Sound familiar?

Honesty is a fundamental part of any successful endeavour. I don’t lie to myself. It is what it is.  I believe in a more proactive approach. If things aren’t going well, no amount of positive thinking will change the course. We need to be objective and recognise a poor performance for what it was.
Responsibility must be taken, something must need to be addressed or changed.
If there is a failure to achieve the desired result, there must be mistakes or reasons why that directly influence the outcome. The results of our nation’s track and field team at the recent World Championships in Moscow was deemed a “good World Championships by the teams officials.”
Let’s be honest here. Aside from Jehue Gordon’s amazing triumph, for a country that was as successful as we were in London, we had a disappointing showing overall. Jamaica had a good World Championships.

In order to get better we need to be honest with ourselves. For example, let’s imagine an extreme, hypothetical situation in which you are a broke, lonely, a failure. You adopt an optimistic outlook and apply the power of positive thinking. You manage to convince yourself this is how it’s meant to be and that your current state is the result of some external force beyond your control,  otherwise known as an external locus of control, and that things could always be worse. Perhaps you even start to believe that you are pretty lucky. The delusion that things are beyond your control and the blind faith in the fact that matters will improve by themselves, become the chains that keep you down.
Are you being honest with yourself? If you were honest with yourself your disgust at your pathetic situation would compel you to accept responsibility and immediately spring to action to rectify your life in whatever way possible.

We Trinbagonians, are fixated on the concept of “swag”. If we put as much energy into achieving results as we do towards faking the “swag” we would have more to back it up, and wouldn’t need to waste energy faking it in the first place. Swag isn’t your mohawk, gold chain, hat, clothes, shoes or red hood. True swag is worn effortlessly, it’s the undeniably evident respect earned from your peers. An alpha wolf has true swag, he doesn’t need to fake it. Those who really have it, know exactly what I am talking about.

Trinbagonians must realise that if something was easy, everyone would do it. If being successful was easy, everyone would be successful, but it’s not. It requires tremendous sacrifice and hard work.
For some populations in other countries, tremendous sacrifice and hard work is the cultural norm. Compared to most other places in the world Trinbagonians have it sweet. We recognise this when we repeat the adage “God is a Trini”. Our current situation: “We like it so.” We like to party so much that some people even joke that the motto of our country should be: “Don’t stop the carnival.”
Trinbagonians have never had to endure war, famine, or winter and our country has never had to fight desperately at unimaginable human cost for its survival like so many other nations.
 
It is probably largely due to a history of unreasonably harsh demands placed on populations due to war that countries such as Serbia, Croatia, Russia, Japan, America, China, England, Israel, Italy, France and Germany all culturally exalt and place such heroic emphasis on sacrifice and hard work.
The very concepts of sacrifice and work have become ingrained into their national psyche. When we as Trinbagonians step out onto the world stage, it is against this heroic, militant work ethic that we must compete. If we want to beat these countries in competition, we must first be willing to match and surpass their sacrifice and hard work when it comes to preparation.
We already know we can succeed out there, we have seen it, let’s make this the rule and not the exception!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 08:58:36 PM by Socapro »
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Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 08:20:39 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/Time-for-a-reality-check-221585971.html

No credit given to a writer. I guess it's Bovell.


Excellent article, problem is armchair "coaches" who have zero concept of competing on a global level in any area of life will continue to say "think positive"
Education is our passport for the future for the future belongs to those who prepare for it today

Offline sinned

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 12:33:33 PM »
Great article. We may have world-class talent but definitely not world-class work ethic. And until we see more people get that work ethic, we will continue to see flashes but never sustained brilliance. The amount of hard work and discipline put in by consistent performers like Ato, Bovell and Yorke is one of the main reasons for sustained success.

Saw this video last week and it was on point too:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GEAr47diBfk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/GEAr47diBfk</a>
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 09:01:16 PM by Socapro »

Offline ffisback

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 12:55:02 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.

Offline A.B.

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 03:07:05 PM »
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
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Offline ffisback

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 04:20:44 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Offline Controversial

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 08:14:40 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

not the ones living abroad, they push culture and make sure people understand that steel pan is trini, the locals are pseudo this and that, some more patriotism and you will see a vast difference

Offline Deeks

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 08:30:45 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.

Offline ffisback

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 09:59:23 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.
Jamaica has to deal with the same U S and EURO programs and still is able to market themselves to the world while Trinidadians continue to put themselves in a box.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 10:33:24 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.
Jamaica has to deal with the same U S and EURO programs and still is able to market themselves to the world while Trinidadians continue to put themselves in a box.


TT is not JA. JA, like the English speaking Carib countries north of TT  have an identity that is predominatly Afro despite the outside cultural influence. JA are set in that psyche and  are comfortable in their negritude. Bob Marley can sing about his Africaness and everybody will lap it up with glee. A Trini sing about his Africaness or a song about Africa and they go say, we eh no African. But they will listen to Bob and say he is the greatest and diss the Trini man. TT  is split along racial and can't even decide if pan is a national instrument. If JA had invented the pan,  there is no way that shit would happen. That is the Trini problem that holds up back. Afros going this way, Indos going that way and the others swinging the  balls in the middle. After 50 yrs of Independence and socalled republicanism we still can't make important decisions on our own. We still need approval.


Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 07:50:21 AM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.
Jamaica has to deal with the same U S and EURO programs and still is able to market themselves to the world while Trinidadians continue to put themselves in a box.


TT is not JA. JA, like the English speaking Carib countries north of TT  have an identity that is predominatly Afro despite the outside cultural influence. JA are set in that psyche and  are comfortable in their negritude. Bob Marley can sing about his Africaness and everybody will lap it up with glee. A Trini sing about his Africaness or a song about Africa and they go say, we eh no African. But they will listen to Bob and say he is the greatest and diss the Trini man. TT  is split along racial and can't even decide if pan is a national instrument. If JA had invented the pan,  there is no way that shit would happen. That is the Trini problem that holds up back. Afros going this way, Indos going that way and the others swinging the  balls in the middle. After 50 yrs of Independence and socalled republicanism we still can't make important decisions on our own. We still need approval.



Well said Deeks. When I was in Jamaica (not resort),  there is a sense of pride of being Jamaican / African.. The Jamaicans have done an excellent job with WRITING their story/history. The average Jamaican knows and respects their rich history.. The average Afro Trini on the otherhand, knows nothing about their  rich history. If we were to document the accomplishments of Trinidad in the same manner as the Jamaicans, some ethnic groups might have feelings of exclusion.  The truth is that the the accomplishments that have put Trinidad on the map, have been mainly accomplishments by people who identify as black. Hence, writing this story will have some feeling excluded from the national blanket. I dont agree with it, but its done to make everyone feel part of TT..

As for the subject of Africaness, you have many Trini that are quick to say " you aint no African" or " you cant go Africa". You never hear this amongst the Indos in TT. The indos are always quick to acknowledge their Indianess (this is great and I wouldnt stop them from doing so). Jamaicans never speak out against their Africaness. I am always in the company of my yardie brethren.. I rarely hear them make comments like the above when it comes to their Africaness.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 02:16:59 PM by gawd on pitch »

Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 05:01:25 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.
Jamaica has to deal with the same U S and EURO programs and still is able to market themselves to the world while Trinidadians continue to put themselves in a box.

Nice article by Bovell.
Trinis don't put themselves in a box.......it is just that many are not willing to do the grunt work required for success...call it the smartman mentality if u will.

At every opportunity a Jamaican will proudly shout "ah yard me come from," wear the yellow green and black, and profess who he is as a person and his own JAMAICAN identity. If you don't understand the lingo...then it is your problem to listen and solve.

Trinis are not so openly proud of their heritage despite how rich it is...otherwise we would protect it more.

Take steelpan.......born out of the same hard work and sacrifice Bovell talk about but still not having a proper place in T&T.

Take soca.....Shorty's career and genius is no different or less great that that of Fela Kuti..... and the list goes on.
We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 07:45:18 PM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.
Jamaica has to deal with the same U S and EURO programs and still is able to market themselves to the world while Trinidadians continue to put themselves in a box.

Nice article by Bovell.
Trinis don't put themselves in a box.......it is just that many are not willing to do the grunt work required for success...call it the smartman mentality if u will.

At every opportunity a Jamaican will proudly shout "ah yard me come from," wear the yellow green and black, and profess who he is as a person and his own JAMAICAN identity. If you don't understand the lingo...then it is your problem to listen and solve.

Trinis are not so openly proud of their heritage despite how rich it is...otherwise we would protect it more.


Take steelpan.......born out of the same hard work and sacrifice Bovell talk about but still not having a proper place in T&T.

Take soca.....Shorty's career and genius is no different or less great that that of Fela Kuti..... and the list goes on.

That is the defining factor. The average Trini is happy and proud of being a "limer, party person, or a drinker". This is because we do not have knowledge of and appreciate our rich history. There is hope.. Some of us are beginning to show pride like the Jamaicans.. Not because of the "party" identity, but because some are beginning to document and speak about the rich Trini history.

Offline ffisback

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2013, 03:17:36 AM »
people tend to put down the steel pan but steel pan is the biggest thing to come out of the Caribbean.
It might be, but 1. according to whom and 2. The fact that you are saying it comes out of the Caribbean and not TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO tells you all you need to know with how poorly we have done in OWNING that instrument worldwide. No one thinks reggae is from Barbados, do they?
Trinidadians have been brainwashed to believe the Caribbean is the world.

Let's put this in perspective. Our airwaves are 90% dominated by US and Euro programs. A substantial amount of university grads are from overseas. We important a humungous amount of food and clothing. You honestly believe what you saying.
Jamaica has to deal with the same U S and EURO programs and still is able to market themselves to the world while Trinidadians continue to put themselves in a box.


TT is not JA. JA, like the English speaking Carib countries north of TT  have an identity that is predominatly Afro despite the outside cultural influence. JA are set in that psyche and  are comfortable in their negritude. Bob Marley can sing about his Africaness and everybody will lap it up with glee. A Trini sing about his Africaness or a song about Africa and they go say, we eh no African. But they will listen to Bob and say he is the greatest and diss the Trini man. TT  is split along racial and can't even decide if pan is a national instrument. If JA had invented the pan,  there is no way that shit would happen. That is the Trini problem that holds up back. Afros going this way, Indos going that way and the others swinging the  balls in the middle. After 50 yrs of Independence and socalled republicanism we still can't make important decisions on our own. We still need approval.


I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere the problem is people in Trinidad was taught Caribbean history and not Trinidad history and since they do not know there own history there will tend to gravitate towards Jamaica's or the other island's history until people in Trinidad is taught there history they will continue to be in a box.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2013, 05:51:35 AM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 10:24:22 AM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

That maybe true about some Afro JAs.. But there is no "campaign" in JA or amongst Jamaicans to call out people who identify with their Africaness.. We do not have to go far to find evidence of this campaign in TT and amongst Trinis.. Check some of the comments on this site.

While Jamaica continues to put Jamaican-centric history before Caribbean-centric history, Trinidad continues to do the opposite.. i.e.  Caribbean-centric history ahead of "Trinbagonian-centric". Not sure if this is true about Tobago. The average Tobagonian does have more respect for their African Heritage than the average Trini does.




Offline Controversial

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2013, 10:33:35 AM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

suriname has it but not as bad as TT...

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2013, 10:41:16 AM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

suriname has it but not as bad as TT...

Yeah they do. Guyana still the worst.

Offline Controversial

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2013, 10:42:04 AM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

That maybe true about some Afro JAs.. But there is no "campaign" in JA or amongst Jamaicans to call out people who identify with their Africaness.. We do not have to go far to find evidence of this campaign in TT and amongst Trinis.. Check some of the comments on this site.

While Jamaica continues to put Jamaican-centric history before Caribbean-centric history, Trinidad continues to do the opposite.. i.e.  Caribbean-centric history ahead of "Trinbagonian-centric". Not sure if this is true about Tobago. The average Tobagonian does have more respect for their African Heritage than the average Trini does.





if Jamaica had a 45% east indian population, there would be problems like guyana and trinidad, unless the east indian populous were converted, it would lessen it greatly, a large percentage of afro trinis are mixed, this is not the case in jamaica, different dynamics
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 10:47:56 AM by Controversial »

Offline Controversial

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2013, 10:47:29 AM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

suriname has it but not as bad as TT...

Yeah they do. Guyana still the worst.

nothing beats back guyana, it's terrible there, but what contributed to it as well is how spread apart the people were from one another, proximity, in trinidad people live closely to one another, in closer communities, so mixing tends to happen at a higher rate than in Guyana

then add to that the politics of division which contributed greatly to the race war

Offline ffisback

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2013, 06:24:36 PM »
I know allot of Jamaicans who say they not Africans that's everywere

That maybe true. But because of the predominant Afro population, the culture is of African descent. So if they say they eh Afro, they unconciously have an Afro-JA culture.  JA does not have the racial polarizing dynamics of TT and Guyana. What if JA was 50% Indo, we may speculate that the situation may be different.

The only country that is not as racially polarizing appears to be Suriname. And I say "appears", because I looking from the outside. The Surinamese has allowed every ethnic group to do their thing. Everybody has both their ethnic and physical space and still seem to live together. Why Guyana and TT can't be like that, I don't know. I think in TT, physical space is the issue. The EW corridor appears to be bursting as the seems and there is real tension in acquiring a piece of property to call your own. To plant "ah garden" or something like the Indos Trini are doing. But then again, Guy has all the physical space and they have serious issue also. Humans are the most difficult thing God produce. He really did not know what he doing when he created Adam.

suriname has it but not as bad as TT...

Yeah they do. Guyana still the worst.

nothing beats back guyana, it's terrible there, but what contributed to it as well is how spread apart the people were from one another, proximity, in trinidad people live closely to one another, in closer communities, so mixing tends to happen at a higher rate than in Guyana

then add to that the politics of division which contributed greatly to the race war
Trinidad is really a English speaking Latin country,Carnival is a Latin festival that encourages merrymaking etc so you dealing with a culture that encourages intermingling unlike Guyana.

Offline Marcos

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Re: Time for a reality check
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2013, 12:58:10 PM »
Awesome thread.

The same things that make TNT sweet, are the things that hold us back. As a people, we are generally easy going and laid back; attributes which pervade every aspect of our society, from sport, to business, to politics. It's amazing that we have been able to achieve the level of success that we have.

Our watchwords are discipline, tolerance and production; but we are generally indisciplined and not productive enough. Even tolerance is being tested today.
Nothing pisses me off more than racism, and ppl who you know that act like they don't know you.