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Author Topic: Greg Dyke on his soapbox  (Read 1172 times)

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Offline doc

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Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« on: September 04, 2013, 08:40:08 PM »
Any thoughts on his address today?
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Offline Rodney

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 07:55:55 AM »
Ah no the England hater's will all say the same thing, that they are just a crap team, they focus on the wrong fundmentals, don't know how to develop world class talent and will always be that way. But if you know the history, England's lack of success over the years is down to multiple factors. In the early days it was arrogance with no focus on continued development, then when the world caught up and passed them by it was over reliance on 4-4-2, then the misguided 'scientific' decision to play the longball game which resulted in the opinion that creative players were a luxury....I could go on. England is always coming up with ways to shoot itself in the foot. This is just the latest issue.

Dyke isn't wrong about the current issues; No one really (even most fans) thinks England are currently able to win anything and he is accurate on the situation with local players but if he thinks Premiership clubs will go allout to help the national team he's probably been drinking the wrong kind of alcohol. You don't need to be a scientist of football to figure out why.

The Premier League was formed to increase earnings and generate more revenue for the clubs, it has been a great success. In fact it's been too successful when it comes to the national team. Every team either wants to remain or get there. As a result you constantly need to be as competitive as possible; that does not promote the ideal of growing success from within. Everyone wants quick fixes and ready made players, waiting for youngsters to hopefully develop into worldclass players is not something most teams with ambition are willing to do. In England's defence I think if any of the top European Leagues had the financial success of the Premier League they would have developed a similar minset but due to Englands past longball policy they are already at a bigger disadvantage than others when it comes to development programmes.

He pretty much gave the answer's to his own challenge as he said good european players are cheaper and easier to find than homegrown ones as well as saying quota's are unlikey to work as they aren't legal for european players and would proably increase the cost of English players anyway.

Unless FIFA and UEFA get involved and manage to convince the Eurpean courts about quotas a more unique approach will need to be devised.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 07:59:20 AM by Rodney »

Offline Mose

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 10:11:23 AM »
I think a good question would be why is it that good European players are cheaper?
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Offline KND2

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 11:04:47 AM »
Only reason why england has not won anything is because theywill not hire the correct coach.

most of the english managers are not good enough
if they went international they would have a better team.

squad selection has been their biggest issue.

could easily have been in the running to win 1986 if they played barnes from the begining.

they also need to send more players overseas for more experience

Rooney should have been sent to spainish league or italian league

he would be a much better player

the culture is too self centered and want to stay local.

Offline palos

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 01:43:50 PM »
Dyke isn't wrong about the current issues; No one really (even most fans) thinks England are currently able to win anything and he is accurate on the situation with local players but if he thinks Premiership clubs will go allout to help the national team he's probably been drinking the wrong kind of alcohol. You don't need to be a scientist of football to figure out why.

The Premier League was formed to increase earnings and generate more revenue for the clubs, it has been a great success. In fact it's been too successful when it comes to the national team. Every team either wants to remain or get there. As a result you constantly need to be as competitive as possible; that does not promote the ideal of growing success from within. Everyone wants quick fixes and ready made players, waiting for youngsters to hopefully develop into worldclass players is not something most teams with ambition are willing to do. In England's defence I think if any of the top European Leagues had the financial success of the Premier League they would have developed a similar minset but due to Englands past longball policy they are already at a bigger disadvantage than others when it comes to development programmes.

He pretty much gave the answer's to his own challenge as he said good european players are cheaper and easier to find than homegrown ones as well as saying quota's are unlikey to work as they aren't legal for european players and would proably increase the cost of English players anyway.

For the life of me I could never understand why English players are more costly than European players.

It suggests to me that by the same token, Spanish, German, and Italian players are similarly as expensive in their respective leagues.  But they're either not as expensive or the clubs in those leagues are much richer, as evidenced by the number of those players in their respective leagues (the vast majority).

It also can't be that in order to win, you have to have the best players and the best players come from outside your country.

60% of Barcelona's starting XI is Spanish
60% of Bayern Munich's starting XI is German
60% of Juventus' starting XI is Italian
60% of Manchester United's starting XI is English


I don't get it.
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Offline Rodney

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 03:15:04 PM »
I assume the cost is more to develop players in the UK than in the rest of Europe, especially as most Premiership and many Championship clubs have quite a lot of foreign youths in their academies recruited from outside the UK, I think probably only Belgium comes close. Recruiting from outside your home nation costs money.

I think Dyke's logic is more biased towards a successful England rather than clubs. I guess his logic is the more English players playing at a high level, the bigger your playing pool and hopefully more choice to select from as well as a higher chance for world class players to emerge. Personally I don't agree that that is what would happen in reality.

Look at Wenger; the man was lambasted in the early days for not using English players. Had squads with 1 UK player at times and starting XI's without any. He said it takes time to develop the right players. Now almost Half his regular starting XI is English with 2 or 3 others waiting in the wings and they deserve to be there but it took him more than a decade to develop the right ones. Guess he was right all along, the FA need to understand that they have some responsibility to develop as well.

Offline palos

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2013, 01:33:57 AM »
I assume the cost is more to develop players in the UK than in the rest of Europe, especially as most Premiership and many Championship clubs have quite a lot of foreign youths in their academies recruited from outside the UK, I think probably only Belgium comes close. Recruiting from outside your home nation costs money.

I think Dyke's logic is more biased towards a successful England rather than clubs. I guess his logic is the more English players playing at a high level, the bigger your playing pool and hopefully more choice to select from as well as a higher chance for world class players to emerge. Personally I don't agree that that is what would happen in reality.

Look at Wenger; the man was lambasted in the early days for not using English players. Had squads with 1 UK player at times and starting XI's without any. He said it takes time to develop the right players. Now almost Half his regular starting XI is English with 2 or 3 others waiting in the wings and they deserve to be there but it took him more than a decade to develop the right ones. Guess he was right all along, the FA need to understand that they have some responsibility to develop as well.

Yuh right about Arsenal.

Gibbs
Wilshere
Walcott
Oxlade-Chamberlain

All English on the first team and often in the first XI

And Welshman Ramsey also among them too.
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Offline Mose

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Re: Greg Dyke on his soapbox
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2013, 09:09:39 AM »
I assume the cost is more to develop players in the UK than in the rest of Europe, especially as most Premiership and many Championship clubs have quite a lot of foreign youths in their academies recruited from outside the UK, I think probably only Belgium comes close. Recruiting from outside your home nation costs money.

I think Dyke's logic is more biased towards a successful England rather than clubs. I guess his logic is the more English players playing at a high level, the bigger your playing pool and hopefully more choice to select from as well as a higher chance for world class players to emerge. Personally I don't agree that that is what would happen in reality.

Look at Wenger; the man was lambasted in the early days for not using English players. Had squads with 1 UK player at times and starting XI's without any. He said it takes time to develop the right players. Now almost Half his regular starting XI is English with 2 or 3 others waiting in the wings and they deserve to be there but it took him more than a decade to develop the right ones. Guess he was right all along, the FA need to understand that they have some responsibility to develop as well.

Yuh right about Arsenal.

Gibbs
Wilshere
Walcott
Oxlade-Chamberlain

All English on the first team and often in the first XI

And Welshman Ramsey also among them too.
Agreed. I believe the issue has more to do with development of the younger players in the system. Reducing the number of foreign players will increase the number of British/English players playing at the highest level in England but the quality of that highest level and the level of competition is going to decrease. So they may end up shooting themselves in the foot in the end.
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