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Author Topic: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!  (Read 16500 times)

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Offline elan

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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2013, 05:15:12 AM »

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2013, 08:01:45 AM »
Moments that take your breath away, sure Brian cherishes that experience, amazing....
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Offline Bakes

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2013, 04:19:15 PM »
DECEMBER 9TH, 2013

GALATASARAY PAIR FACE PUNISHMENT FOR NELSON MANDELA TRIBUTE
 BY THOMAS HAUTMANN (FOX Sports)




Seriously, what is wrong with the world?

Galatasaray’s Didier Drogba and teammate Emmanuel Eboue both face punishment from the Turkish FA for paying homage to Nelson Mandela after Friday’s 2-0 win over Elazigspor.

One night after Mandela’s death, Drogba revealed a shirt with the  message “Thank You Madiba,” (Madiba is Mandela’s clan name) while Eboue’s undershirt read “Rest In Peace Nelson Mandela.” Both players of course are African, and this was a show of their appreciation for one of the most important civil rights leaders in world history.

However, the Turkish FA deemed the messages to be the kind of “political expressions” they are currently trying to discourage players and fans from making at games. And despite the fact Drogba and Eboue’s messages were a tribute rather than a manifesto, the pair has been summoned to appear before the Turkish Professional Football Discipline Committee because they had not asked for permission first.

In response, Drogba took to Instagram with this message:

Quote
I’d be very interested to see your comments on this…but I’m sorry if I had to I would do it again and again.Nor because of political beliefs but because this man inspired me,a country, a continent, the world!!!!! Thanks again Madiba


http://blog.foxsoccer.com/post/69504556654/galatasaray-pair-face-punishment-for-nelson-mandela?cmpid=tsmfb%3Afscom%3Afoxsoccer
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 04:20:47 PM by Bakes »

Offline ribbit

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2013, 07:12:30 PM »

Offline Dutty

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2013, 08:18:16 PM »
Moments that take your breath away, sure Brian cherishes that experience, amazing....

Indeed!!! Very proud Mr. Mandela managed to make his way to we small rock in the caribbean
Although the reason they coerce the ailing man to make that long trip does still kinda irk mih

What a life though eh?  Born as a simple country boy and at the end of yuh journey,, damn near every world leader on the globe past AND present flying in to pay their respects



Ribbit, Lara get he educate in Fatima...yuh cyah expeck more :devil:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 08:28:23 PM by Dutty »
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Offline fishs

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2013, 12:14:23 AM »
Moments that take your breath away, sure Brian cherishes that experience, amazing....

Indeed!!! Very proud Mr. Mandela managed to make his way to we small rock in the caribbean
Although the reason they coerce the ailing man to make that long trip does still kinda irk mih

What a life though eh?  Born as a simple country boy and at the end of yuh journey,, damn near every world leader on the globe past AND present flying in to pay their respects



Ribbit, Lara get he educate in Fatima...yuh cyah expeck more :devil:

A lot of stories now coming out about his time in prison and his interaction with his jailors and him changing their lives.

Also the cowboy Ronald Reagan deeming him a terrorist because ANC was getting help from Cuba and Russia.  Reagan maintaining that Aparthied SA was a friend because they opposed CUBA and Russia.

That man went through real thing and was able to bury any bitterness. How many people can do the same or would have done the same ?

And Ribbit and Dutty that " have" makes the bat legitimate
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2013, 04:30:36 AM »

Clarence's first tweet in 9 months.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2013, 04:59:59 AM »


Quote
“I am also an anti-apartheid supporter and I dedicated my World and European Footballer of the Year award to Nelson Mandela, the imprisoned ANC leader.” - Ruud Gullit

“I admired Nelson Mandela for many reasons, but not necessarily just because I’m black. My mother is white, I am her son, and I’ve met a lot of white people I ‘ve admired too. - Ruud Gullit
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 05:06:20 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2013, 06:41:01 AM »
Quote
“Like many youths in my township, Ga-Rankuwa (30km north-west of Pretoria)…. Soccer was a major part of my growing up. At the time, however, little did I know how big a role soccer would play in influencing the person that I would become. My passion for this game kept me away from undesirable extra-mural activities such as drinking and smoking, and turned me into an avid reader of soccer magazines such as Shoot, an English soccer magazine imported from Britain through the Central News Agencies (CNA). So soccer not only kept me out of trouble but it inspired me to want to be somebody one day. And what I wanted was to become a soccer player of the professional standards one read of about the teams in the English Premier Soccer clubs, such as Manchester United Football Club (MUFC). Bryan Robson, who captained MUFC and England in the eighties and early nineties for about a decade was my role model. I wanted to be him. And I knew that, as MUFC player, it would be obvious for me to be a Bafana-Bafana (South African National Soccer) team member. In fact, at the time when this dream was burning so deep inside me Bafana-Bafana was not yet born because of the Apartheid policies which made a beloved country to be isolated from global challenges of almost all sorts.

It is largely as a result of this boyhood dream to be a professional soccer player that I am presenting this paper. I did not make it to MUFC, my compatriot, Quinton Fortune, Cape Town’s Cape Flats, made it to that Theatre of Dreams, Old Trafford. I did not fail to get there. I made a choice, or rather destiny chose for me to go somewhere else. Some place that when I was dreaming as a boy to go Manchester United never even occurred to my boyish mind that any one in her/his right mind would want to work there.

...

Role of Sports:

Sport played such an important part in the daily lives of Political Prisoners on Robben Island from the late 1960s when they won their negotiations with the Prison Authorities to allow them engage themselves in recreational activities. During the Apartheid era, sports divided the people of South Africa. Further, sports was used as weapon to fight apartheid South Africa through the Sports Boycott Campaigns. “Sport is one sector of our social life that has stood out in performing a unifying role in the years of transformation. Some of the most vividly remembered moments of celebration of our emergent new nationhood were those connected with the achievements of our national sporting teams. South Africans of all backgrounds and persuasions shared in the triumphs, such as the brave performances of our Protea cricket team, that famous World Cup victory of our Springboks rugby team [in 1995], or the glorious lifting of the African Nations Cup by Bafana-Bafana [in 1996], our national soccer team” (Nelson Mandela, Madiba’s Boys: The Stories of Lucas Radebe and Mark Fish, South Africa: New Africa Books, 2001, p.5)

I feel we can keep our deferred dream burning inside ourselves by using our love and passion for sports and particularly soccer for me, to research, write and tell our hidden histories. These histories were left---consciously and unconsciously---out of our formal education curricula, from pre-tertiary schooling to graduate and, astonishingly in some cases, also to postgraduate levels of study. "The tragedy of Africa, in racial and political terms [has been] concentrated in the southern tip of the continent - in South Africa, Namibia, and, in a special sense, Robben Island"(Oliver Reginald Tambo). Robben island history, particularly of political imprisonment, which sweeps about 40 years –1960 to 1991 – is, without doubt, one such untold chronicle(s). Soccer my dream deferred is, for me, a powerful vehicle to narrate, not only the accounts of anti-apartheid struggles. But perhaps more fundamentally for our generation, to write and re-write the histories of our birth country. Because it is certain that a lot of work still needs to be done to close this gap. And particularly by the African people themselves who “are desperately in need of access to histories about themselves---written in clear, unspecialized, demystifying language---that confirm their humanity and show a more balanced picture of [themselves] in South Africa. But also [they must be] convinced about the possibilities of conducting historical research from an African-centred perspective” (Atkins, Keletso E., The Moon Is Dead! Give Us Our Money! The Cultural Origins of an African Work Ethic, Natal, South Africa, 1843-1900).

Shula Marks is right "it is a curious irony that while probably more has been written about South Africa than about any other country in Africa, very little has been written by historians of South Africa about the history of the majority of its population" (Shula Marks, “Historians of South Africa”, in ed. J. D. Fage, Africa Discovers Her Past, London: Oxford University Press, 1970).

“Ruud Gullit: Soccer, Racism and Apartheid”
Introduction

I was introduced to RUUD GULLIT by my passionate reading of my favourite British soccer magazines, Shoot. At the time I did not know his name. It was this quotation that aroused my interest in him: “I am also an anti-apartheid supporter and I dedicated my World and European Footballer of the Year award to Nelson Mandela, the imprisoned ANC leader.”

The year was 1987. The quotation was inserted into a picture of a dreadlocked male singer with a microphone situated just in front of his mouth. His left hand was raised in the form of a fist, which had, over the years, came to represent and be associated with the ‘amandla ngawethu’ (‘power [belongs] to us’) signature and salutation of the African National Congress (ANC). Something about this singer caught my attention. It was not his dreadlocks: “I am aware that many people dislike the name “dreadlocks” because they assume it’s negative. I like, even enjoy, the word “dreadlocks” because whenever I use it I find myself in bemused dialogue with African ancestors on several continents æ those of our people who grew to dislike their own hair because its uniqueness was unappreciated by the flat-haired people who conquered them and who decreed their own physical characteristics the norm.”

But the writing in white and capital letters that was on the front of his black T-shirt: "STOP APARTHEID".

I found this a very bold and striking statement. I mean, having grown up under apartheid, there was no way I could avoid being struck by that pronouncement. Perhaps another reason I found it so powerful and influential was the fact that I, despite my burning desire to be a professional footballer, had undertaken a decision to go to an institution of higher learning, with history, and later on with political science, as my majors.

At the time of seeing that picture in 1987, I did not know who the dreadlocked person was. I just assumed he was a singer because of the manner of his posing and appearance in that photo. And mind you, I was knowledgeable, thanks to the Shoot magazines, about the British footballers, such as Bryan Robson, who was at the time both the captain of his club, MUFC, and his country, England.

Later on, after some years, I got to know the name behind the locks. Gradually I became aware of the man’s impact, not only on the football stadiums of the world, but of his thoughts and comments on what W.E.B. Du Bois considered the problem of the twentieth century, racism. I began asking myself why I did not know him, while I knew almost all of the British soccer players. I am going to argue here that part of the answer to that question can be found in the legacy of British colonialism. In his Address to the Joint Houses of Parliament of the United Kingdom, then - President Nelson Mandela focused on this British colonialism, in which he “gently but firmly reminded Britons yesterday that it was their colonisation in the 18th century that sowed the seeds of white supremacy in South Africa.”

The South African Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) fed South African citizens with soccer programs that highlighted English Premier Soccer League on a weekly basis, as if the rest of the footballing world did not exist. It seemed normal and I think we took it for granted that we did not know much about the other football-playing nations, particularly those that Britain did not colonise. Holland for instance, and in this case study for example, Ruud Gullit has a different cultural background to those of the English players. Ruud’s nationality is Dutch, and was the time 1987/1988 season, playing for AC Milan F.C. in the Italian Soccer League, passionately and commonly known as ‘Seria A.’

In 1995 I registered for a MA History Research degree at the University of Natal, Durban. That same year, Gullit made a transfer move that shocked the footballing world. He left the Italian League's Sampdoria Football Club for England's less famous and reputable London-based club, Chelsea F.C. He joined Chelsea as a player. And when their Manager, Glen Hoddle, was appointed to the head coach of the English team, Glen, with the support of Chelsea Football Club, recommended that Ruud be appointed as a Player-Manager. Gullit’s move to London was significant for me in that when Gullit relocated to England, suddenly I had access to the guy and information about him as if he had relocated to South Africa. The media, both print and electronic, provided more coverage about Ruud once he was in London than it was the case when he was in the Netherlands, his country of birth, or while he was playing football in Italy. 1996 saw the publication of his biography, Ruud Gullit: Portrait of A Genius, in England. I purchased it in Durban's Adams Bookshop early in January 1997, that its reading provided me with the much needed escape from the punishing aspect of struggling to write my MA thesis. I bought it because ever since I saw his 1987/88 “STOP APARTHEID” public stand, there was always this fascination within me for this unique footballer. For me, he seemed to stand out of the crowd of his footballing generation, and I was curious to learn more about his background. It was through reading that book that I realised that the 1987 photograph which introduced him to me was in fact the inception in my mind of that doctoral proposal paper. My aim had always been to find out what made Ruud, a footballer, make that courageous stand to support South Africa's struggle against apartheid and our struggle for freedom. I was not disappointed because the reasons were there in his biography, and here is just one that in my opinion is central.

"Gullit’s first confrontation with the hostilities against black people came when he was a 13-year-old schoolboy. With one of his friends, he had been hanging around in a big store. Like many naughty boys of that age, his friend had wanted to pinch a bar of chocolate. After approaching the shelf three or four times, his friend did not have the courage and Ruud decided to leave the shop. As they went through the door, a security man stopped them and took Ruud to the police. He was accused of shoplifting. The other boy was not even asked what he had been up to. Only Ruud Gullit was arrested - because he was black." The argument I am building here is that, from that tender age of 13, Gullit’s conscience was awakened to racial prejudice in his own society, which he said: “That was my first direct experience with racism, and I can tell you, it wasn’t an easy thing to cope with. It was a totally bemusing experience, and I think I grew up a bit quicker as a result of it. It was certainly a turning point for me, because I started to realise what the real world was all about.”

Here, I think, it is also worth reflecting on the composition of his national soccer squad. The Dutch team reached the finals of the World Cup in 1974 and 1978, but did not have a single black Dutch player in the squad. Consequently, in 1982 Ruud Gullit became the first black player to represent his country when he made his international debut on his 19th birthday. This was fundamentally important for, “n Ruud Gullit, black people in the Netherlands, and throughout Europe, had a successful sportsman to look up to. A star who was prepared to fight against Apartheid and to campaign for all the black people in the world.”

For that very reason, for many of us who were born under apartheid, the personality of Ruud Gullit has a very similar significance to that which Gullit himself, writing in 1996 attaches to that of Madiba: "Mandela means so much to me and to other young people in the world. He was arrested in 1962 which is the same year that I was born. It is hard to imagine that someone was in prison almost all the time that I was alive."

http://www.anthroglobe.info/docs/Racism-soccer-South%20Africat.htm
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 06:43:18 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline ribbit

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2013, 07:29:31 PM »
waiz dis with obama shaking castro hand? which fella kill more people yuh tink? ah mean, with dem drone strikes, 'bama might be ahead of castro.

Moments that take your breath away, sure Brian cherishes that experience, amazing....

Indeed!!! Very proud Mr. Mandela managed to make his way to we small rock in the caribbean
Although the reason they coerce the ailing man to make that long trip does still kinda irk mih

What a life though eh?  Born as a simple country boy and at the end of yuh journey,, damn near every world leader on the globe past AND present flying in to pay their respects



Ribbit, Lara get he educate in Fatima...yuh cyah expeck more :devil:

A lot of stories now coming out about his time in prison and his interaction with his jailors and him changing their lives.

Also the cowboy Ronald Reagan deeming him a terrorist because ANC was getting help from Cuba and Russia.  Reagan maintaining that Aparthied SA was a friend because they opposed CUBA and Russia.


That man went through real thing and was able to bury any bitterness. How many people can do the same or would have done the same ?

And Ribbit and Dutty that " have" makes the bat legitimate

yeah, dat saying about politics and bedfellows. is a very ugly decision reagan and mags make to countenance apartheid. is like stalin in wwii or saudi arabia today. mandela was one of a kind. ah see bishop tutu on de stage.

a fella post that mandela come out of prison an atheist. is this true?

Offline Trini _2026

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2013, 08:07:30 AM »


Ah bissessar
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2013, 09:31:46 AM »
Boyce: Pardon cricket rebels

Wed, December 11, 2013 - 12:02 AM

MINISTER OF HEALTH John Boyce has suggested a “proper” pardon for Barbadian cricketers who defied public opinion and took part in the rebel tours of racially divided South Africa in 1982 and 1983.

He said a pardon was in line with the work of South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which had preached forgiveness and reconciliation for people who had perpetuated wrongs against society during the apartheid era.

Boyce said the commission operated on the premise that all people failed in one way or another.

He made the comments yesterday as the House of Assembly paid tribute to South African icon Nelson Mandela.


Boyce said that decades after the controversial tour of a country which was under an international sports ban because of its racial segregation policies, the former cricketers still needed to be properly pardoned, recognized and acknowledged.

He said the media should give them “a larger space” to tell their side of the story. He noted that some cricketers had said their presence in South Africa had been a positive influence on the moves to dismantle apartheid, but said other players needed to “have their day in court, so to speak”.

He listed among the sportsmen who had taken part in the tours: Sylvester Clarke, Alvin Greenidge, Collis King, Ezra Moseley, Franklyn Stephenson, Emmerson Trotman, Albert Padmore and Hartley Alleyne.

Also touring South Africa were Gregory Armstrong, who acted as coordinator/manager, and David Murray.

The South African rebel tours were a series of seven cricket tours staged by a number of teams between 1982 and 1990. They were organized and conducted despite the disapproval of national cricket boards and governments, as well as the International Cricket Conference and international organizations including the United Nations.

The tours were the subject of much controversy and remain a sensitive topic throughout the cricket-playing world.


England’s rebel team was banned for three years while Sri Lanka’s was banned for 25 years, but the West Indies players were banned for life. (TY)

http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/boyce-pardon-cricket-rebels/
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 09:38:02 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2013, 09:48:50 AM »
A few comments regarding the above:

1. The "rebels" entered South Africa under the despicable designation "honorary white".

2. From a Trinbagonian perspective, one of the rebels was Bernard Julien.

3. West Indian participation in this lamentable chapter of sporting history occurred between 1982 and 1984, whereas the Aussies and the English were the ones who persisted through 1990.

Offline Bakes

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2013, 12:20:03 PM »


Ah bissessar

Was trying to find this other than on somebody FB where I see it yesterday.  Kamla have to be a spectacular dunce to wear that to a man memorial service.  Just because she in Africa she feel the need to pappyshow sheself and dress up in African garb??  And some bright ass colors too when everybody else wearing something respectably subdued.  She clearly more concerned with the trappings of the office rather than the responsible execution of the duties thereof.

Offline Bitter

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2013, 01:25:38 PM »
Mandela memorial sign language interpreter a 'fraud'
By Justine Gerardy (AFP) – 51 minutes ago 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iIw_WX73abjjxouoZmlnOTBkVFFQ?docId=2d7002c2-50dc-4ef8-ac26-8bf485c65f21

Cape Town — The sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's memorial was accused Wednesday of being a fake who merely flapped his arms around during speeches.

"He's a complete fraud," Cara Loening, director of Sign Language Education and Development in Cape Town told AFP.
"He wasn't even doing anything, There was not one sign there. Nothing. He was literally flapping his arms around."

The interpreter, who translated eulogies including those of US President Barack Obama and Mandela's grandchildren, looked as if he was "trying to swat a few flies away from his face and his head".

"The deaf community in South Africa are completely outraged and nobody knows who he is," said Loening.

"We can't find a name or anything. The organisations who have accredited interpreters do not know him at all."

The government said it had launched an investigation following the allegations, the results of which would be made public.
Minister Collins Chabane said at a news conference the government was "looking into this matter," but would be unable to conclude its investigations on Wednesday due to other pressing demands ahead of Mandela's funeral.

Attended by nearly 100 sitting and former heads of state, the speeches at Mandela's memorial on Tuesday were supposed to be interpreted into sign language for deaf viewers.

The on-stage interpreter's signing appeared at odds with that of the public broadcaster's signer, who was shown on a small insert box on SABC television screens.

Delphin Hlungwane, a spokeswoman for the Deaf Federation of South Africa, said the man picked for the job was "just gesturing in the air".

"He didn't interpret at all, he had zero percent accuracy," she said.

"International people were watching it as well and they all said he was not using any kind of sign language. They all said they don't understand him," said Hlungwane.

Loening said her organisation was getting mails from around the world "wondering what on earth this man was doing there".
"It's a real embarrassment. It's complete disrespect for the deaf community and for what Nelson Mandela stood for and the support which he gave toward the deaf community."

Copyright © 2013 AFP. All rights reserved.
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Offline ribbit

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2013, 02:10:26 PM »
Mandela memorial sign language interpreter a 'fraud'
By Justine Gerardy (AFP) – 51 minutes ago 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iIw_WX73abjjxouoZmlnOTBkVFFQ?docId=2d7002c2-50dc-4ef8-ac26-8bf485c65f21

Cape Town — The sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's memorial was accused Wednesday of being a fake who merely flapped his arms around during speeches.

"He's a complete fraud," Cara Loening, director of Sign Language Education and Development in Cape Town told AFP.
"He wasn't even doing anything, There was not one sign there. Nothing. He was literally flapping his arms around."

The interpreter, who translated eulogies including those of US President Barack Obama and Mandela's grandchildren, looked as if he was "trying to swat a few flies away from his face and his head".

"The deaf community in South Africa are completely outraged and nobody knows who he is," said Loening.

"We can't find a name or anything. The organisations who have accredited interpreters do not know him at all."

The government said it had launched an investigation following the allegations, the results of which would be made public.
Minister Collins Chabane said at a news conference the government was "looking into this matter," but would be unable to conclude its investigations on Wednesday due to other pressing demands ahead of Mandela's funeral.

Attended by nearly 100 sitting and former heads of state, the speeches at Mandela's memorial on Tuesday were supposed to be interpreted into sign language for deaf viewers.

The on-stage interpreter's signing appeared at odds with that of the public broadcaster's signer, who was shown on a small insert box on SABC television screens.

Delphin Hlungwane, a spokeswoman for the Deaf Federation of South Africa, said the man picked for the job was "just gesturing in the air".

"He didn't interpret at all, he had zero percent accuracy," she said.

"International people were watching it as well and they all said he was not using any kind of sign language. They all said they don't understand him," said Hlungwane.

Loening said her organisation was getting mails from around the world "wondering what on earth this man was doing there".
"It's a real embarrassment. It's complete disrespect for the deaf community and for what Nelson Mandela stood for and the support which he gave toward the deaf community."

Copyright © 2013 AFP. All rights reserved.

that fella was standing right next to obama as well. dis is a security fail.

Offline Bakes

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2013, 02:56:29 PM »
Supposedly the Crips and Bloods upset about it too...

Offline MEP

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2013, 05:21:28 PM »


Ah bissessar

Was trying to find this other than on somebody FB where I see it yesterday.  Kamla have to be a spectacular dunce to wear that to a man memorial service.  Just because she in Africa she feel the need to pappyshow sheself and dress up in African garb??  And some bright ass colors too when everybody else wearing something respectably subdued.  She clearly more concerned with the trappings of the office rather than the responsible execution of the duties thereof.
Ah doh even know where to start with that picture...this is a woman who is entrusted with the nation's welfare and she she can't even make a prudent decision on what to wear at a memorial service

Offline Bakes

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2013, 05:34:30 PM »
She doing women a real disservice with her performance in office.  Normally her gender wouldn't merit mention, but given how much play it got when she was first elected... and how she herself feted and continued to fete the occasion, her performance real shameful.

Offline congo

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2013, 06:14:29 PM »
That just sums up how politicians and how they view themselves in the world. They are so out of touch with the outside world that it is painful. This is easily on par with her going to India and trying to touch the elder's feet. Sickening bunch of people we have who call themselves our leaders. How condescending is it that she chose to dress like that. Let's not even begin to speak about the fact that she is wearing west african clothing at a funeral in South Africa. Sad state of affairs.

Offline Deeks

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2013, 06:42:03 PM »
Congo, your point is fair, but I don't see the issue with West African attire. The vast majority of the diaspora is of West African descent. So at least she got something "right". Look at this point , just let Kamla be Kamla. Tell me how many AfroTT women of prominence will wear na African outfit or a Sari. Just let the woman be.

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2013, 07:41:24 PM »
Congo, your point is fair, but I don't see the issue with West African attire. The vast majority of the diaspora is of West African descent. So at least she got something "right". Look at this point , just let Kamla be Kamla. Tell me how many AfroTT women of prominence will wear na African outfit or a Sari. Just let the woman be.

Deeks nah... Kamla can be Kamla when Kamla on Kamla time.  Kamla went there as Prime Minister and was more interested in putting on a fashion spectacle.  First off... why did she feel the need to wear a traditional 'African' dress?  Is that attire specific to S. Africa, the nation she was visiting?  Or does any "African" garb suffice?  Did it have any particular resonance with the late Mandela?  Or she just trying to be 'in thing'?  When you consider the attire of the other women dignitaries who attended, Kamla sticks out like a sore thumb.  Style aside, the colors also fail, given the purpose of the occasion.

Offline Bitter

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2013, 08:01:39 PM »
Mandela and the Question of Violence
One should never lose sight of why America preaches nonviolence to some people while urging other people to arms.
TA-NEHISI COATES
DEC 11 2013, 3:11 PM ET
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/mandela-and-the-question-of-violence/282255/

Quote
I was right to be wrong, while you and your kind were wrong to be right.
—Pierre Courtade

I have the misfortune of being near the end of Tony Judt's Postwar at a moment when of the great figures of our history, Nelson Mandela, has passed. Judt's gaze is relentless. He rejects all grand narratives, skewers Utopianism (mostly in the form of Communism), and eschews the notion that history has definite shape and form. States are mostly amoral. In one breath he will write admiringly of the Nordic countries. In the next he will detail their descent into eugenics in the mid-20th century.

This is what I mean when I say that Judt has an atheist view of history. God does not care about history, and history does not care about humans. There is no triumphalism, in Postwar, about Western values and democracy. What you see is a continent at war with itself. The upholding of democratic values is a constant struggle, often lost—in the colonies, in the Eastern bloc, in Greece, in Portugal, in Spain. Even among the great Western powers there is the sense that no one is immune to the virus of authoritarianism.

There is great humility in Judt's portrait of Europe, a humility that is largely absent from the portrait of the West foisted upon the darker peoples of the world. Non-African writers love to congratulate Nelson Mandela on not becoming another "Mugabe," as though despotism is something Africans are uniquely tempted toward; as though colonialism was not, itself, a form of kleptocratic despotism. I too am happy that Mandela did not become another Mugabe. I am happier still that he did not become—as far as these analogical games go—another Leopold.

This Western arrogance is as broad as it is insidious. There was a well-reported piece in the Times a few days ago on the disappointment that's followed Mandela's presidency. A similar note has been sounded in seemingly every obit and article concerning Mandela's death. It's not so much that these stories shouldn't be written, it's that they shouldn't treated the subject as though a man were biting a dog. That people are shocked that South Africa, almost 20 years out of apartheid, is struggling with fairness and democracy, reflects a particular ignorance, a particular blindness, and a peculiar lack of humility, about our own struggles.

On the great issue of the day, the generations that followed George Washington offered not just disappointment but betrayal. "The unfortunate condition of the people whose labors I in part employed," Washington wrote, "has been the only unavoidable subject of regret." Americans did not simply tolerate this "unfortunate condition," they turned it into the cornerstone of the American economic system. By 1860, 60 percent of all American exports came from cotton produced by slave labor. "Property in man" was, according to Yale historian David Blight, worth some $3.5 billion more than "all of America's manufacturing, all of the railroads, all of the productive capacity of the United States put together."

In short order, Washington's slaveholding descendants went from evincing skepticism about slavery to calling it "a positive good" and "a great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." And they did this while plundering and raiding this continent's aboriginal population. For at least its first 100 years, or perhaps longer, this country was a disappointment, an experiment which—by its own standards of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness—failed miserably. America is not unique. It is the product of imperfect humans. As is South Africa. That people turn to the country of Nelson Mandela and wonder why it hasn't magically transformed itself into a perpetual font of milk and honey is a symptom of our blindness to our common humanity.

Nowhere is that blindness more apparent then in the constant, puerile need to critique Mandela's turn toward violence. The impulse is old. "Why Won't Mandela Renounce Violence?" asked a New York Times column in 1990. Is that what we said to Savimbi? To Mobutu?

Malcolm X understood:

Quote
If violence is wrong in America, violence is wrong abroad. If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it is wrong for America to draft us, and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country.

Martin Luther King Jr. agreed:

Quote
As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems ... But, they asked, what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today, my own government.

As did Mandela. Offered the chance to be free by the avowed white supremacist P.W. Botha if he would renounce violence, Mandela replied, “Let him renounce violence.” Americans should understand this. Violent resistance to tyranny, violent defense of one's body, is not simply a political strategy in our country, it is taken as a basic human right. Our own revolution was purchased with the blood of 22,000 nascent American dead. Dissenters were tarred and feathered. American independence and American power has never rested on nonviolence, but on the willingness to do great—at times existential—violence.

Perhaps we would argue that Malcolm X, Mandela, and King were wrong, and that states should be immune to ethics of nonviolence. But even our rhetoric toward freedom movements which employ violence is inconsistent. Mandela and the ANC were "terrorists." The Hungarian revolutionaries of 1956, the Northern Alliance opposing the Taliban, the Libyans opposing Gaddafi were "freedom fighters." Thomas Friedman hopes for an "Arab Mandela" one moment, while the next telling those same Arabs to "suck on this." The point here is not that nonviolence is bunk, but that it is is bunk when invoked by those who rule by the gun.

In the shadow of our conversation, one sees a constant, indefatigable specter which has dogged us from birth. For the most of American history, very few of our institutions believed that black people were entitled to the rights of other Americans. Included in this is the right of self-defense. Nonviolence worked because it conceded that right in the pursuit of other rights. But one should never lose sight of the precise reasons why America preaches nonviolence to some people while urging other people to arms.

Jimmy Baldwin knew:

Quote
The real reason that nonviolence is considered to be a virtue in Negroes—I am not speaking now of its racial value, another matter altogether—is that white men do not want their lives, their self-image, or their property threatened. One wishes they would say so more often.

The questions which dog us about Mandela's legacy, his relationship to other African autocrats, the great imperfections which remain in his country, and his insistence on the right of self-defense ultimately say more about us than they do about Mandela. "I cannot sell my birthright," Mandela responded to calls for him to renounce violence. "Nor am I prepared to sell the birthright of the people to be free."

This is a universal appeal, and our inability to see such universality in those who are black, or in those who oppose our stated interests, reveal the borders of all our grand talk about democratic values. That is the next frontier. A serious embrace of universality. A rejection of selective morality.
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline ribbit

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2013, 09:43:20 PM »
Mandela memorial sign language interpreter a 'fraud'
By Justine Gerardy (AFP) – 51 minutes ago 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iIw_WX73abjjxouoZmlnOTBkVFFQ?docId=2d7002c2-50dc-4ef8-ac26-8bf485c65f21

Cape Town — The sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's memorial was accused Wednesday of being a fake who merely flapped his arms around during speeches.

"He's a complete fraud," Cara Loening, director of Sign Language Education and Development in Cape Town told AFP.
"He wasn't even doing anything, There was not one sign there. Nothing. He was literally flapping his arms around."

The interpreter, who translated eulogies including those of US President Barack Obama and Mandela's grandchildren, looked as if he was "trying to swat a few flies away from his face and his head".

"The deaf community in South Africa are completely outraged and nobody knows who he is," said Loening.

"We can't find a name or anything. The organisations who have accredited interpreters do not know him at all."

The government said it had launched an investigation following the allegations, the results of which would be made public.
Minister Collins Chabane said at a news conference the government was "looking into this matter," but would be unable to conclude its investigations on Wednesday due to other pressing demands ahead of Mandela's funeral.

Attended by nearly 100 sitting and former heads of state, the speeches at Mandela's memorial on Tuesday were supposed to be interpreted into sign language for deaf viewers.

The on-stage interpreter's signing appeared at odds with that of the public broadcaster's signer, who was shown on a small insert box on SABC television screens.

Delphin Hlungwane, a spokeswoman for the Deaf Federation of South Africa, said the man picked for the job was "just gesturing in the air".

"He didn't interpret at all, he had zero percent accuracy," she said.

"International people were watching it as well and they all said he was not using any kind of sign language. They all said they don't understand him," said Hlungwane.

Loening said her organisation was getting mails from around the world "wondering what on earth this man was doing there".
"It's a real embarrassment. It's complete disrespect for the deaf community and for what Nelson Mandela stood for and the support which he gave toward the deaf community."

Copyright © 2013 AFP. All rights reserved.

that fella was standing right next to obama as well. dis is a security fail.

apparently this fella did the sign language at a previous speech given by zuma.  :rotfl: :rotfl:

Offline ribbit

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2013, 09:58:52 PM »
Mandela and the Question of Violence
One should never lose sight of why America preaches nonviolence to some people while urging other people to arms.
TA-NEHISI COATES
DEC 11 2013, 3:11 PM ET
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/mandela-and-the-question-of-violence/282255/

Quote
I was right to be wrong, while you and your kind were wrong to be right.
—Pierre Courtade

I have the misfortune of being near the end of Tony Judt's Postwar at a moment when of the great figures of our history, Nelson Mandela, has passed. Judt's gaze is relentless. He rejects all grand narratives, skewers Utopianism (mostly in the form of Communism), and eschews the notion that history has definite shape and form. States are mostly amoral. In one breath he will write admiringly of the Nordic countries. In the next he will detail their descent into eugenics in the mid-20th century.

This is what I mean when I say that Judt has an atheist view of history. God does not care about history, and history does not care about humans. There is no triumphalism, in Postwar, about Western values and democracy. What you see is a continent at war with itself. The upholding of democratic values is a constant struggle, often lost—in the colonies, in the Eastern bloc, in Greece, in Portugal, in Spain. Even among the great Western powers there is the sense that no one is immune to the virus of authoritarianism.

There is great humility in Judt's portrait of Europe, a humility that is largely absent from the portrait of the West foisted upon the darker peoples of the world. Non-African writers love to congratulate Nelson Mandela on not becoming another "Mugabe," as though despotism is something Africans are uniquely tempted toward; as though colonialism was not, itself, a form of kleptocratic despotism. I too am happy that Mandela did not become another Mugabe. I am happier still that he did not become—as far as these analogical games go—another Leopold.

This Western arrogance is as broad as it is insidious. There was a well-reported piece in the Times a few days ago on the disappointment that's followed Mandela's presidency. A similar note has been sounded in seemingly every obit and article concerning Mandela's death. It's not so much that these stories shouldn't be written, it's that they shouldn't treated the subject as though a man were biting a dog. That people are shocked that South Africa, almost 20 years out of apartheid, is struggling with fairness and democracy, reflects a particular ignorance, a particular blindness, and a peculiar lack of humility, about our own struggles.

On the great issue of the day, the generations that followed George Washington offered not just disappointment but betrayal. "The unfortunate condition of the people whose labors I in part employed," Washington wrote, "has been the only unavoidable subject of regret." Americans did not simply tolerate this "unfortunate condition," they turned it into the cornerstone of the American economic system. By 1860, 60 percent of all American exports came from cotton produced by slave labor. "Property in man" was, according to Yale historian David Blight, worth some $3.5 billion more than "all of America's manufacturing, all of the railroads, all of the productive capacity of the United States put together."

In short order, Washington's slaveholding descendants went from evincing skepticism about slavery to calling it "a positive good" and "a great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." And they did this while plundering and raiding this continent's aboriginal population. For at least its first 100 years, or perhaps longer, this country was a disappointment, an experiment which—by its own standards of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness—failed miserably. America is not unique. It is the product of imperfect humans. As is South Africa. That people turn to the country of Nelson Mandela and wonder why it hasn't magically transformed itself into a perpetual font of milk and honey is a symptom of our blindness to our common humanity.

Nowhere is that blindness more apparent then in the constant, puerile need to critique Mandela's turn toward violence. The impulse is old. "Why Won't Mandela Renounce Violence?" asked a New York Times column in 1990. Is that what we said to Savimbi? To Mobutu?

Malcolm X understood:

Quote
If violence is wrong in America, violence is wrong abroad. If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it is wrong for America to draft us, and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country.

Martin Luther King Jr. agreed:

Quote
As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems ... But, they asked, what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today, my own government.

As did Mandela. Offered the chance to be free by the avowed white supremacist P.W. Botha if he would renounce violence, Mandela replied, “Let him renounce violence.” Americans should understand this. Violent resistance to tyranny, violent defense of one's body, is not simply a political strategy in our country, it is taken as a basic human right. Our own revolution was purchased with the blood of 22,000 nascent American dead. Dissenters were tarred and feathered. American independence and American power has never rested on nonviolence, but on the willingness to do great—at times existential—violence.

Perhaps we would argue that Malcolm X, Mandela, and King were wrong, and that states should be immune to ethics of nonviolence. But even our rhetoric toward freedom movements which employ violence is inconsistent. Mandela and the ANC were "terrorists." The Hungarian revolutionaries of 1956, the Northern Alliance opposing the Taliban, the Libyans opposing Gaddafi were "freedom fighters." Thomas Friedman hopes for an "Arab Mandela" one moment, while the next telling those same Arabs to "suck on this." The point here is not that nonviolence is bunk, but that it is is bunk when invoked by those who rule by the gun.

In the shadow of our conversation, one sees a constant, indefatigable specter which has dogged us from birth. For the most of American history, very few of our institutions believed that black people were entitled to the rights of other Americans. Included in this is the right of self-defense. Nonviolence worked because it conceded that right in the pursuit of other rights. But one should never lose sight of the precise reasons why America preaches nonviolence to some people while urging other people to arms.

Jimmy Baldwin knew:

Quote
The real reason that nonviolence is considered to be a virtue in Negroes—I am not speaking now of its racial value, another matter altogether—is that white men do not want their lives, their self-image, or their property threatened. One wishes they would say so more often.

The questions which dog us about Mandela's legacy, his relationship to other African autocrats, the great imperfections which remain in his country, and his insistence on the right of self-defense ultimately say more about us than they do about Mandela. "I cannot sell my birthright," Mandela responded to calls for him to renounce violence. "Nor am I prepared to sell the birthright of the people to be free."

This is a universal appeal, and our inability to see such universality in those who are black, or in those who oppose our stated interests, reveal the borders of all our grand talk about democratic values. That is the next frontier. A serious embrace of universality. A rejection of selective morality.

it is an empirical fact that post-colonial africa has had some of the worst leaders/governance out of any region. comparing mugabe to leopold - wtf?! leopold wasn't killing he own - mugabe is.

Offline Bitter

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2013, 10:48:04 PM »
it is an empirical fact that post-colonial africa has had some of the worst leaders/governance out of any region. comparing mugabe to leopold - wtf?! leopold wasn't killing he own - mugabe is.

I think you might want to read that paragraph again. Your understanding of it seems muddled. The comparison is between a petty despot, and a genocidai tyrant. Regardless, am I more dead if one of my own kills me rather than a foreigner?
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2013, 12:56:22 AM »

it is an empirical fact that post-colonial africa has had some of the worst leaders/governance out of any region. comparing mugabe to leopold - wtf?! leopold wasn't killing he own - mugabe is.

as a corollary Bitter's point, this notion of killing 'your his people' is a tired neocon refrain steeped in tribalism/racism. and is often used an an excuse to launch than an aggressive action against self-same people.
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2013, 06:01:24 AM »
She doing women a real disservice with her performance in office.  Normally her gender wouldn't merit mention, but given how much play it got when she was first elected... and how she herself feted and continued to fete the occasion, her performance real shameful.

*sigh* as a woman, ah real shame......
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Trini _2026

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Re: R.I.P. NELSON MANDELA!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2013, 08:12:48 AM »
PRAGUE (AP) — Many world leaders have said they wouldn't miss Nelson Mandela's funeral for anything, but Czech Prime Minister Jiri Rusnok isn't among them.

Rusnok's conversation with Defense Minister Vlastimil Picek in parliament on Friday was broadcast by the Czech public television news channel.

When Picek reminded him that President Milos Zeman might be unable to fly because of a knee injury, Rusnok reacted with a vulgar term.

Addressing his companion by the Czech equivalent of "dude," Rusnok said: "I'm dreading that I will have to go."

He complained that he had other plans — a lunch and a dinner— and that a South Africa trip would be too long.

The recording became widely popular in local media Saturday and on the Internet.

CZECH PREMIER NOT HAPPY TO ATTEND MANDELA FUNERAL
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/czech-premier-not-happy-attend-mandela-funeral

"I apologize for those words," Rusnok said in a statement sent to The Associated Press by his spokeswoman Jana Jaburkova on Saturday. "It wasn't right to use such terms in connection with the death of Nelson Mandela."

Rusnok said it would be difficult for him to find time for unexpected events in his busy December schedule. He said it will be decided in the next few days who will represent the Czech Republic at Mandela's Dec. 15 funeral.

Mandela visited Prague in 1992 to meet with then-President Vaclav Havel who had led the 1989 Velvet Revolution that ended 40 years of communism in his country. The two leaders had both spent years in prison for opposing repressive regimes before becoming presidents. They reportedly became good friends.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

 

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