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Offline SWF Reporter

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Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« on: February 02, 2014, 12:14:08 AM »
Raymond Tim Kee’s unmasking: TTFA president says plenty in Warriors attack
By Lasana Libured (Wired868)


He is out of the closet now.

Fifteen months into his reign as Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) president, Raymond Tim Kee, a salesman by trade, finally stepped out from behind the cover of clichés and friendly platitudes to give an insight into his true nature.

TV6 presenter Joel Villafana snagged the memorable interview for Raw Sports but Tim Kee did not need much coaxing to unload. Perhaps it was just time.

World Cup 2006 defender Brent Sancho, one of 13 “Soca Warriors” who have already waited nearly eight years for promised bonuses, vented his hurt at what he felt was the TTFA’s attempt to portray the players as impatient and unnecessarily confrontational. At present, the TTFA is four months late on its second payment to the Warriors and is yet to inform the players when they will be paid.

Villafana asked Tim Kee for his response to his irate creditor, Sancho.

Tim Kee began: “Well, I thought it wasn’t worthy of a response from me…”

Before you had our curiousity, Mr President, now you have our attention.

Tim Kee clumsily tried to suggest that he meant to show discourtesy to Sancho’s views rather than the individual. But it was nullified by later accusing the Central FC CEO of lacking common sense.

“What I thought Mr Sancho would understand and any thinking person should understand,” Tim Kee continued, “you make promises on things over which you have control and all things being equal you could satisfy those promises.

“If we have no control over those funds because we are depending on those funds to come from a certain source… There is nothing ambiguous about that. I thought that was simple.

“We did what we could have done. Everyone knows we don’t know have money.”

Tim Kee, as TTFA president, entered in an agreement before the High Court to pay 13 footballers an agreed sum by a stipulated date, which he reneged on. And then, rather than empathise with his frustrated creditor, he insulted him.

 “I am here to serve,” said Tim Kee, in his maiden address as president. “… I will welcome divergent thought, difference of opinion because generally it is the antithesis that defines the thesis and open doors from a new synthesis that comes with synergies that work to make us all better.

“In short, under my stewardship, no voice will be silenced; no idea suppressed and no thought expressed will be left unconsidered.”

The reality has always been different.

Senior TTFA vice-president Lennox Watson told Wired868 that he had no clue where the funds to settle with the Warriors was sourced. Another TTFA vice-president and chairman of the technical development committee Rudi Thomas, who heads the committee responsible for hiring coaches, found out through the media that Leo Beenhakker and Stephen Hart were approached to lead the “Soca Warriors.”

The sidelining of the old executive has been justified by the fact that most of them were handpicked by disgraced former TTFF special advisor Jack Warner. First, this ignores the not-so-minor detail that so was Tim Kee. Second, when is ignoring democratic process and one’s own organizational structure ever a good thing as standard business practice?

How can it be bad for Warner but good for Tim Kee?

The point is Tim Kee has begun to run local football with such carefree abandon that it has poisoned his approach with the Warriors as well. And he looked straight into the cameras and suggested that he was not bound by a promise made before the highest court in the country.

Sancho and his teammates, he suggested, can get nothing through the court. The Warriors will only receive money if they keep quiet and wait for him to get back to them.

Sounds familiar?

Last March when he initially conjured up a settlement with the players, Tim Kee claimed the money given to the players was “unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF (from CONCACAF) for the 2014 World Cup cycle.”

It insults the intelligence to suggest that getting knocked out of the 2014 World Cup qualifying series in three months flat in the very first Caribbean phase was worth roughly $15 million (TT dollars). And, worse, that this money sat ignored and untouched for two years in a CONCACAF account while the TTFA struggled to find money to even hold training camps.

CONCACAF president Jeffrey Webb, TTFA general secretary Sheldon Phillips and Tim Kee must not think much of their audience to try to sell that story.

In his recent interview, the man who claimed to have a monopoly on common sense offered an even more convoluted story which suggested that FIFA had withheld money meant for the Warriors because of a delay in the construction of Brazil’s World Cup stadia. Either that or the dog ate it for dessert right after enjoying some tasty homework.

Tim Kee was speaking a bit quickly there. And you know something is up when your salesman ups the tempo.

In reality, it does not matter. Tim Kee made a promise to the High Court and you are supposed to keep those. Normal people know better than scoff at such a contract.

But this is where Tim Kee showed just how far he has come since he became TTFA president and then Port of Spain Mayor.

He sat right in the mayor’s office and told Villafana that he could escape the court at any time.

“I could have easily—as was the advice from many, including legal advice, and looking at the enormous debt to be paid—declared bankruptcy, which cannot be questioned,” said Tim Kee. “If that had been done, if I had adhered to that advice, this now would not have been an issue.”

It is worth remembering here that Tim Kee was a vice-president when the TTFF entered into its World Cup bonus agreement with the Warriors and he still held that position when the players began their court case. Through collective responsibility and his own silence during Warner’s era, Tim Kee is also a party to this deal.

Yet, he spoke flippantly about dodging the debt and denying the players their share of profits; money that the TTFF claimed was taken by Warner but then steadfastly refused to chase, despite the repeated urgings of Justice Devindra Rampersad.

Villafana, unfortunately, never asked Tim Kee why he apparently refuses to consider legal action against Warner, despite his body’s precarious financial problem.

Tim Kee, after raising the possibility of cheating his creditors by legal sleight of hand, then attempted to pat himself on the back for not doing the unethical thing and urged the players to follow suit.

“I thought there would have been some greater appreciation for my selflessness and desire to see things done right,” said Tim Kee. “The pushing that is going on now; I still have the marbles in my hand to exercise options…”

The Warriors’ part of the deal was to qualify for the World Cup. Now, Tim Kee wants them to applaud too while he goes about not living up to his end of the agreement.

After calling the Warriors stupid for threatening to get redress from the High Court, Tim Kee warned the World Cup players that they would also be wasting their time if they sought help from FIFA.

“FIFA is a private organisation that accepts or rejects applicants that they want to accept or reject,” he said. “… This is not a company under any company act or anything like that; any organisation who meets the criteria for membership by FIFA could have (avoided debt through bankruptcy and still be fine).”

So, to summarise, the TTFA is being run by an egotistical leader who makes no secret of his political influence, considers himself to be untouchable by the law, is happy to make decisions without input from his executive and believes he can do as he likes because he has friends in FIFA.

If Tim Kee speaks this way now, imagine how he would sound if he had real power like a FIFA vice-presidency rather than just the leadership of a broke little FA on a tiny two island republic?

Meet Trinidad and Tobago’s new football chief; not much different to the old one.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:46:41 AM by Flex »

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 05:19:18 AM »
Depressing, but good read

Offline elan

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 10:49:17 AM »
Thank you very much. You hit de nail on the head.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline dreamer

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 12:38:25 PM »
Excellent article by Lasana. We are very fortunate to have somebody like you with such insights and also independent enough and fearless enough to report the glaring truths. It's important to recognize dishonesty and manipulative behavior. Uncle Timo, watch your contents. Sancho and company, keep your head up and follow principle.
Supportin' de Warriors right tru.

Offline Fyzoman

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 01:27:05 PM »
Depressing, but good read

I agree :(

Know what I LOVE about this article...the direct quotes!!!!

So nobody cah come and say nutten bout de man didn't say dat, or Lasana didn't relay it correctly....dais what de man say heself...and my goodness!!!

"Practice is the best of all instructors"

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 03:53:11 PM »
Excellent article by Lasana. We are very fortunate to have somebody like you with such insights and also independent enough and fearless enough to report the glaring truths. It's important to recognize dishonesty and manipulative behavior. Uncle Timo, watch your contents. Sancho and company, keep your head up and follow principle.

Each person will read content and then decide if those contents are positive or negative. Myself and Bakes will both read a sentence and perceive entirely different meanings. And both of us are convinced we are correct and the other is mistaken.
Same with journalists. Some take everything at face value, some look for alternative meanings.

Most journalists are the former, Lasana is the latter. What Lasana does well is research previous statements and include them to back up his point. In my opinion, Lasana does not start with an open mind. He has his opinion and will look at every utterance to reinforce that opinion.

Whether you like how he goes about his business or not, an alternative perspective is vital in the media so that people can decide for themselves.

To me, TTFA appear to be attempting to make positive changes. However, like everybody, they also make mistakes or errors of judgement. It's how these situations are dealt with which will really show what they are about. Bad media responses does not mean that the speaker is bad, just like clever media control does not make the speaker a good person. But public perception is decided by what is in the media, and that's where kings are made and fools found out. 

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 04:59:35 PM »
Tim Kee got loads of good press in Wired868. So when did I start with a closed mind against him?
It was Wired868 that he announced his initial campaign intentions to. In fact, Tim Kee and Sheldon went into power with excellent relations with the site and both gave their first interviews to Wired868.
So you speak from a place of ignorance there Football Supporter. You or anyone else is free to disagree with my interpretations of his time in office. That is fair. But to say I have dealt with the present executive with a closed mind is foolish.
I can put a tonne of positive stories done by Wired868 right now on the current TTFA chiefs.
Like I said, I respect anyone's right to disagree. But the truth is I have always gotten on well with Tim Kee and Phillips. I am just unimpressed with several important things that happened during their respective reigns.
I have no master and I am free to speak my mind. And I exercise that right when I think the time is appropriate.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 05:21:57 PM »
Tim Kee got loads of good press in Wired868. So when did I start with a closed mind against him?
It was Wired868 that he announced his initial campaign intentions to. In fact, Tim Kee and Sheldon went into power with excellent relations with the site and both gave their first interviews to Wired868.
So you speak from a place of ignorance there Football Supporter. You or anyone else is free to disagree with my interpretations of his time in office. That is fair. But to say I have dealt with the present executive with a closed mind is foolish.
I can put a tonne of positive stories done by Wired868 right now on the current TTFA chiefs.
Like I said, I respect anyone's right to disagree. But the truth is I have always gotten on well with Tim Kee and Phillips. I am just unimpressed with several important things that happened during their respective reigns.
I have no master and I am free to speak my mind. And I exercise that right when I think the time is appropriate.


In my opinion, Lasana does not start with an open mind. He has his opinion and will look at every utterance to reinforce that opinion.

I was actually referring to this specific article!

Offline FF

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 05:36:54 PM »
Lasana at the end of the day, your end game with respect to Jack Warner remains the same and informs your interpretations and opinions.
In my view.
Don't dig no horrors
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 05:46:59 PM »
So rather than deal with the contents of the article, you decide to malign the intention of the author? Why not just defend Tim Kee based on the facts? Don't you feel confident enough to do so?
You rather do a psycho-analysis?
Here is a blow by blow for your benefit "Football Supporter": I watched interview. I went over interview and took out quotes that stood out. I thought about those quotes. I formulated a commentary based on my interpretation of Tim Kee's statements and what I feel the broader implications of them are.
I published story.
Is that interesting enough for you? You still want dark hidden intent?
Sorry to disappoint you but I am a football writer and it is my job to have an opinion on issues of such importance.
I don't get up and write stories because I dislike Tim Kee or I like Football Supporter. You're free to have your opinion, of course.
I have given mine.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 05:48:59 PM »
Tim Kee got loads of good press in Wired868. So when did I start with a closed mind against him?
It was Wired868 that he announced his initial campaign intentions to. In fact, Tim Kee and Sheldon went into power with excellent relations with the site and both gave their first interviews to Wired868.
So you speak from a place of ignorance there Football Supporter. You or anyone else is free to disagree with my interpretations of his time in office. That is fair. But to say I have dealt with the present executive with a closed mind is foolish.
I can put a tonne of positive stories done by Wired868 right now on the current TTFA chiefs.
Like I said, I respect anyone's right to disagree. But the truth is I have always gotten on well with Tim Kee and Phillips. I am just unimpressed with several important things that happened during their respective reigns.
I have no master and I am free to speak my mind. And I exercise that right when I think the time is appropriate.


You are blind to your own bias.  I thought it was a very good installment in what has been a series of hatchet jobs.  You accuse FS of "speaking from a position of ignorance" but at every turn you have ground the axe for the TTFA.  You are ignorant to the legal underpinnings of Tim Kee's position, calling "unethical" his suggestion that bankruptcy was (and remains an option), by your biased, uninformed reasoning, everyone who files for bankruptcy is guilty of unethical behavior. 

When one's liabilities outstrips one's assets, particularly where debt is concerned, bankruptcy is a remedy provided for by law and society.  Few would argue the fact that the TTFA lacks the assets/funds to pay the debt, making bankruptcy a perfectly reasonable response.  Sancho's verbal riposte was just him "venting"... but Tim Kee's response is dripping with all kinda contempt and condescension... to hear you tell it.  To your credit you never really made much of a pretense at being impartial.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 05:52:29 PM »
So rather than deal with the contents of the article, you decide to malign the intention of the author? Why not just defend Tim Kee based on the facts? Don't you feel confident enough to do so?
You rather do a psycho-analysis?
Here is a blow by blow for your benefit "Football Supporter": I watched interview. I went over interview and took out quotes that stood out. I thought about those quotes. I formulated a commentary based on my interpretation of Tim Kee's statements and what I feel the broader implications of them are.
I published story.
Is that interesting enough for you? You still want dark hidden intent?
Sorry to disappoint you but I am a football writer and it is my job to have an opinion on issues of such importance.
I don't get up and write stories because I dislike Tim Kee or I like Football Supporter. You're free to have your opinion, of course.
I have given mine.

Oho, was ah "opinion" piece... never mind then.  Allyuh does wear so many hats that I don't know which one being worn when.  Just like mih boy Fuentes, he coudn't decide when he was supposed to be Jack lapdog, from when he was supposed to be TTFF mouthpiece.  Just now yuh go argue like he did that you too could "pose" as ah journalist.

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 05:54:01 PM »
I won't even debate Warner, FF. Tim Kee was allowed to state his case for being the anti-Warner right on Wired868. So when I write good about someone, wonderful. When I write negative things, I hate them?
The truth is I don't bear animosity to a soul. And I find Phillips and Tim Kee to be quite sociable people. I have spoken to both at length over the past year and a half and enjoyed the chats.
But when I'm about business, I write what I believe to be the truth. And there are certain issues that they failed to address to my satisfaction. Those mature enough to know that I'm doing my job have remained friends. The others have not.
What benefit do I gain from stories that irk Warner, Tim Kee or Phillips? At Express, I got a standard rate per story. The same money I get for watching a SSFL match is the the same money I got for spending days in the Ministry of Legal Affairs tracking Simpaul Travel and his other companies.
If there was some benefit to doing confrontational stories, everyone would be doing it.
I work according to my own conscience. That is as juicy as it gets.

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 05:56:59 PM »
Bakes, the words "Commentary" are on the thread. The story did not go in my sport news section on the site but in my commentary section.
But don't stop on my account. You complete me.  :beermug:

Offline Bakes

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 06:03:36 PM »
Bakes, the words "Commentary" are on the thread. The story did not go in my sport news section on the site but in my commentary section.
But don't stop on my account. You complete me.  :beermug:

You are right, the thread title does say  "commentary."  I have no particular say, but in my mind SWO.net needs news, not more "commentary", we get enough of that from the regular contributors.  As for me "complet[ing]" you, doh get too happy Keyshia Cole it eh dat kinda party, I like woman.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 10:30:40 AM by Bakes »

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM »
Lol.  :banginghead:

Offline FF

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 06:29:39 PM »
I never say you hate anybody.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Jack Horner

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 06:36:09 PM »
Lasana, a writer who looks for clicks to pay his bills, he doesn't care if his headlines if totally different than his actual story.

Clicks, clicks, and more clicks.

As grandpa say, Lie-Burd.

He is a good writer gone bad. The Express was late but catch on to him.

Tim Kee is obligate to Jack, like it or not, he is here BECAUSE OF JACK and to an extent Anil, Jack boy, Anil was bought for pennies but he is still Jack boy and a faithful friend, we need more people with gratitude like him in T&T.

Sheldon Phillips is another pillow, like his dad. He is weak. I heard even Shaun Fuentes bark orders on him.

He is very sly guys. 6 months of fire like his dad and then the retirement check will come out.

Tim Kee, keep beating the drum Pal, the 06 Warriors is a bunch of hot steam.

No one red cent for them.

I said so.

Jack Warner will rise again and the world will beg him him to return and he will say "NO".............

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2014, 06:58:22 PM »
Oh lord
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 07:32:13 PM »
The more I watched the video the more disappointed I became in this man's inability to distinguish
himself from Mr. Warner and I came to the realization that this is not the right man to lead this 
business, non-profit or otherwise, out of it's doldrums.

I can think of a lot of cliches to describe this situation but I think "The more things change
the more they remain the same" is most appropriate.

"You make promises on things you have control of
but we had no control over those funds because
we were depending on the funds coming from CONCACAF via FIFA".
"Nothing from nothing is nothing. I don't have a mint to manufacture money".
"Que sera, sera".
"Then I gave, now I loan. I haven't got a cent".
"I thought there would have been some greater appreciation for my selflessness to
see things done right but the pushing that is going on now; I still have the option to use
the marbles in my hands"
"I don't have money, football owes me money. I gave money to football".
"No football, no sport, could get me to go to court"

That shit sounds very familiar indeed.

But, for me, what was really telling about the individual sitting behind the desk in this
interview with Joel, was his statement that "Football has never been closed down as a business
because it is not a business, it was never set as a LLC, football is a non-profit
organization, it is an act of parliament". So, it stands to reason that there is no business
model and business plan to ensure a successful future for the organization.

Right now, Mr. Tim Kee is the mayor of a city that is a hotbed for criminals and also the
president of an organization that is experiencing a near death experience. Both situations
require the total, 100%, attention of a dynamic leader to guide both elements out of the deadly
conditions they are facing. Both assignments are complex in nature, so much so that they require
the undivided attention of a savvy leader. One who will give his or her undivided attention to one
or the other, but not both. Neither situation is a joke.

In regards to the Federation, there are several factors, we are all too familiar with,
responsible for this near death experience; factors that are self inflicted like; a lack of
accountability, incompetent management and poor financial control being some of the internal
forces responsible for this. The continuous survival and success of any business greatly depends
on managing these forces expertly. Neglecting them can spell doom for the business. In addition,
there is no way to bring your dying business back to life by mere words of "Hope", you need to
do the work. And not just as you have always done before, you need to change the way you used to
work. If you had been engaged in random work rather than focusing on performance-driven work or
goal-oriented work, that will not work.
It is one thing to work and it is another to align your work with the strategic goals of the
organization. Only by doing so can the business be saved from dying. This is going to take your
undivided attention. Mr. Tim Kee, the non-profit organization you were elected to lead, is a
business, whether you choose to accept it or not, that requires a sound business model and plan.
 
I recall when Mr. Tim Kee was elected to lead the TTFF he used "Hope" as a key ingredient in
his ambitious plan to reorganize and restructure the TTFF. Any savvy business leader will tell
you "Hope" will never be a sound, viable plan. But then that begs the question, how can you talk
about an ambitious plan to reorganize and restructure the Federation as though it was a business
and turn around and say it was never a business? It is doom to failure. What the Federation
clearly needs is a clear thinking, savvy non-profit or for profit business leader with intelligent
ideas of the essential elements, plans, strategies or otherwise, to lead this non-profit business
out of this valley of resource despair.

The Federation needs a leader to start thinking about a business model, especially if the
objective is to have resources needed to do the job well. That individual needs to stretch, to
find alternative revenue sources to join the Federation's diminishing sources, to become more
efficient, more “business-like.” An analysis of an implicit or explicit business model is in order.
There has to be a need to capture the essential elements, the dynamic processes and methods of
what is needed to know to progress the institution. And a business model together with a business
plan is a good place to start.

18 minutes into the interview, Joel said that Sancho wanted the TTFA to tell the players something
tangible for them to hang on to, tangible being the key word here. What should have emerged from
Tiny Tim's mouth should have been a more intelligent response of ideas of the substantial baseline
that's needed to plan the Federation's future direction, the areas it seeks to improve, those it
will expand, those it may decide to drop, the new markets it needs for resources, and a brief
outline of the range of other elements necessary for significant success in the future, instead
of the incoherent bullshit about nothing from nothing is nothing. You cannot be another lame
duck president like Oliver Camps and expect Sancho and the Band of Warriors and to a greater
extent we, the Soca Warrior fans, to applaude that.

That is unacceptable.

According to Frances Hesselbein, the author and chairman of the Drucker Foundation, leadership
that achieves results goes beyond how to be, and becomes how to do.

To Sancho and the Band of Warriors, George Santayana once wrote, "Those who cannot remember the
past are condemned to repeat it." I mean, fellas, how many times are you going to fall for the
okie doke? But, you know what, I understand that you were between a rock and a hard place and you
trusted another fast talking businessman who promised you if "this", then "that". But, isn't "that" why
you are at "this" point in the first place?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 07:34:06 PM by King Deese »
I am the punishment of God...If you had not comitted great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.

Offline dreamer

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2014, 09:37:36 PM »
Delicious thread. Seems like more than just Tim Kee being unmasked.  :beermug:
Supportin' de Warriors right tru.

Offline elan

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2014, 10:02:58 PM »
SWF doh study them fellas. Everybody who watch that interview could hear what the man say, his tone and his demeanor. You write exactly what he said so there is nothing about your intentions or bias.


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Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2014, 11:13:00 PM »
No problem FF. In any case, I think it makes more sense to look at the message rather than speculate about the messenger. If you disagree with the interpretation, like I said, that's fine.
Football Supporter knew why he wanted to make that point for whoever he was trying to impress. So I really decided to deal with his statement.
I believe everyone else, including Bakes, just being true to what they believe and I'm cool with that.

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2014, 01:58:41 AM »
I really can't believe the flow-back from this - his arguments were sound and reasonable, and it's clear in a commentary piece you either agree with the conclusions and logical steps or you don't, but sheer effort to defend his position and provide evidence proves this is no hatchet job.

Bakes for a somewhat logical poster your position smacks of a knee-jerk reaction. His points on bankruptsy are sound - you might have the right to do something but that doesn't make it ethical, and his argument is that it would be entirely unethical. You disagree on that, but you go further and accuse him of bias? It's an opinion piece for one, so the question isn't so much bias (what is an opinion piece but coming on one side or the other on a contentious issue?) but whether his position is supported.

Also, too much commentary? Really? In a country where the powerful are never challenged enough, you'd rather have 'news' (two-a-penny for prevalence) than some reasoned debate or argument on that news?  You lack ambition Sir

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2014, 07:07:13 AM »
Excellent article by Lasana. We are very fortunate to have somebody like you with such insights and also independent enough and fearless enough to report the glaring truths. It's important to recognize dishonesty and manipulative behavior. Uncle Timo, watch your contents. Sancho and company, keep your head up and follow principle.

Each person will read content and then decide if those contents are positive or negative. Myself and Bakes will both read a sentence and perceive entirely different meanings. And both of us are convinced we are correct and the other is mistaken.
Same with journalists. Some take everything at face value, some look for alternative meanings.

Most journalists are the former, Lasana is the latter. What Lasana does well is research previous statements and include them to back up his point. In my opinion, Lasana does not start with an open mind. He has his opinion and will look at every utterance to reinforce that opinion.

Whether you like how he goes about his business or not, an alternative perspective is vital in the media so that people can decide for themselves.

To me, TTFA appear to be attempting to make positive changes. However, like everybody, they also make mistakes or errors of judgement. It's how these situations are dealt with which will really show what they are about. Bad media responses does not mean that the speaker is bad, just like clever media control does not make the speaker a good person. But public perception is decided by what is in the media, and that's where kings are made and fools found out. 

What concerns me is that I make what I consider a complimentary statement and the recipient gets vexed!

So, how the hell does an investigative journalist decide on a story to cover?
You must have an opinion to begin with. How else do you decide which angle to come from? Most journos in T&T are just reporters, reporting facts. You can't write opinion pieces by just reporting facts. If you have no opinion to begin with, how do you decide which stories to cover?  ??? ???

Imagine Andrew Jennings writing a book on FIFA when he has no reason to and along the way, just fell into a story? Jennings had his opinion and researched the facts, quoted statements etc and unearthed a can of worms. If he was open minded, would he have done all of that research just on the off chance?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 07:11:41 AM by Football supporter »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2014, 10:37:37 AM »
I really can't believe the flow-back from this - his arguments were sound and reasonable, and it's clear in a commentary piece you either agree with the conclusions and logical steps or you don't, but sheer effort to defend his position and provide evidence proves this is no hatchet job.

Bakes for a somewhat logical poster your position smacks of a knee-jerk reaction. His points on bankruptsy are sound - you might have the right to do something but that doesn't make it ethical, and his argument is that it would be entirely unethical. You disagree on that, but you go further and accuse him of bias? It's an opinion piece for one, so the question isn't so much bias (what is an opinion piece but coming on one side or the other on a contentious issue?) but whether his position is supported.

Also, too much commentary? Really? In a country where the powerful are never challenged enough, you'd rather have 'news' (two-a-penny for prevalence) than some reasoned debate or argument on that news?  You lack ambition Sir

I don't know who the hell you think you is, but I don't need some johnny-come-lately lecturing me on things which he clearly doesn't understand.  I'm sure Lasana understands why I accuse him of bias, even if he disagrees with my position.  You sir, need to sit your ass down somewhere and develop a sense of context before you presume to be lecturing anyone.  Your comments on the ethics question reveals your own "bankruptsy" of thought.

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2014, 11:00:58 AM »
I really can't believe the flow-back from this - his arguments were sound and reasonable, and it's clear in a commentary piece you either agree with the conclusions and logical steps or you don't, but sheer effort to defend his position and provide evidence proves this is no hatchet job.

Bakes for a somewhat logical poster your position smacks of a knee-jerk reaction. His points on bankruptsy are sound - you might have the right to do something but that doesn't make it ethical, and his argument is that it would be entirely unethical. You disagree on that, but you go further and accuse him of bias? It's an opinion piece for one, so the question isn't so much bias (what is an opinion piece but coming on one side or the other on a contentious issue?) but whether his position is supported.

Also, too much commentary? Really? In a country where the powerful are never challenged enough, you'd rather have 'news' (two-a-penny for prevalence) than some reasoned debate or argument on that news?  You lack ambition Sir

I don't know who the hell you think you is, but I don't need some johnny-come-lately lecturing me on things which he clearly doesn't understand.  I'm sure Lasana understands why I accuse him of bias, even if he disagrees with my position.  You sir, need to sit your ass down somewhere and develop a sense of context before you presume to be lecturing anyone.  Your comments on the ethics question reveals your own "bankruptsy" of thought.

No sir I won't sit my ass down - too much of that happens. I really don't want this to degenerate into ad homien attacks, so let me start by apologising for any offence I've caused in my comments. I'm challenging your opinions and want to debate the issue over whether Tim Kee is acting in a positive way for Trini football. Bakes you feel passionate about this and that's great, but so do I - no matter how late to the party I come. If I lack context then please fill me in, but as I understand it there is a group of players who have not been paid for their work over 8 years ago, mostly due to corruption from this individuals successor (despite this being at a separate legal entity), who in fact had a large part in the position he now fulfills.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 11:16:49 AM by Tiresais »

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2014, 11:11:40 AM »
I really can't believe the flow-back from this - his arguments were sound and reasonable, and it's clear in a commentary piece you either agree with the conclusions and logical steps or you don't, but sheer effort to defend his position and provide evidence proves this is no hatchet job.

Bakes for a somewhat logical poster your position smacks of a knee-jerk reaction. His points on bankruptsy are sound - you might have the right to do something but that doesn't make it ethical, and his argument is that it would be entirely unethical. You disagree on that, but you go further and accuse him of bias? It's an opinion piece for one, so the question isn't so much bias (what is an opinion piece but coming on one side or the other on a contentious issue?) but whether his position is supported.

Also, too much commentary? Really? In a country where the powerful are never challenged enough, you'd rather have 'news' (two-a-penny for prevalence) than some reasoned debate or argument on that news?  You lack ambition Sir

Come again?!  You sure that is what you want to state?

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2014, 11:14:06 AM »
I really can't believe the flow-back from this - his arguments were sound and reasonable, and it's clear in a commentary piece you either agree with the conclusions and logical steps or you don't, but sheer effort to defend his position and provide evidence proves this is no hatchet job.

Bakes for a somewhat logical poster your position smacks of a knee-jerk reaction. His points on bankruptsy are sound - you might have the right to do something but that doesn't make it ethical, and his argument is that it would be entirely unethical. You disagree on that, but you go further and accuse him of bias? It's an opinion piece for one, so the question isn't so much bias (what is an opinion piece but coming on one side or the other on a contentious issue?) but whether his position is supported.

Also, too much commentary? Really? In a country where the powerful are never challenged enough, you'd rather have 'news' (two-a-penny for prevalence) than some reasoned debate or argument on that news?  You lack ambition Sir

Come again?!  You sure that is what you want to state?

Rights aren't necessarily ethical - rights are granted/demanded by governments/powers. You might, for example, have the right to kill an intruder even if they have no weapon, but the ethical nature of that is not clear-cut.

Another example: the head of a charity might have the right to claim a 6 or 7 figure salary, but I imagine most people would consider that unethical to divert funds in the charity in such a way

Offline elan

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Re: Commentary: Did Tim Kee unmask himself in Sancho counter-attack?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2014, 11:19:45 AM »
I really can't believe the flow-back from this - his arguments were sound and reasonable, and it's clear in a commentary piece you either agree with the conclusions and logical steps or you don't, but sheer effort to defend his position and provide evidence proves this is no hatchet job.

Bakes for a somewhat logical poster your position smacks of a knee-jerk reaction. His points on bankruptsy are sound - you might have the right to do something but that doesn't make it ethical, and his argument is that it would be entirely unethical. You disagree on that, but you go further and accuse him of bias? It's an opinion piece for one, so the question isn't so much bias (what is an opinion piece but coming on one side or the other on a contentious issue?) but whether his position is supported.

Also, too much commentary? Really? In a country where the powerful are never challenged enough, you'd rather have 'news' (two-a-penny for prevalence) than some reasoned debate or argument on that news?  You lack ambition Sir

Bakes always talk about bias, but more and more he's showing his bias.  something he takes less into consideration. Watch how he will deal with this thread here on out.
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