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Offline Trini _2026

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Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
Richard Luscombe in Miami

Michael Dunn guilty of attempted second-degree murder over shooting of black teenager Jordan Davis in dispute at gas station


A jury has declared that it could not reach a decision on whether a Florida man, who shot dead a teenager in a dispute over loud music, was guilty of murder or had acted in self defence.

The judge in Jacksonville declared a mistrial on the first-degree murder charge on Saturday, although the jury convicted Michael Dunn on three lesser counts of attempted second-degree murder, and shooting into an occupied vehicle. Dunn could face a sentence of between 20 and 60 years.

Dunn, 47, shot Jordan Davis, 17, during the altercation at a Jacksonville gas station in November 2012, sparked by the youth’s refusal to turn off music blaring from the vehicle he was in with a group of friends.

The case re-ignited the debate over Florida’s self-defence and gun control laws seven months after neighbourhood watch leader George Zimmerman was acquitted of murdering another unarmed black teenager, Trayvon Martin, in a fight at a Sanford housing estate.

The failure of the jury to convict Dunn on the principal murder charge was a blow for the prosecution team led by state attorney Angela Corey, which was heavily criticised for its failure to secure a conviction against Zimmerman.

The prosecution must decide whether to order a new trial on the first-degree murder charge.

Dunn said he feared for his life after seeing Davis point a shotgun at him and was then forced to fire when the teenager charged at him, swearing and threatening to kill him.

But although police never found a weapon, and a medical examiner said she believed the youth was lying on the back seat of the vehicle when he was shot, not outside it, the jury of seven women and five men, who deliberated for four days, could not agree whether Dunn was guilty of first-degree murder.

State attorney Erin Wolfson had outlined a scenario in which Dunn simply “lost it” because he was “disrespected by a mouthy teenager”, fired 10 shots into the SUV then fled to a nearby hotel with his
girlfriend where they ordered pizza and spent the night watching movies.

During his own testimony, Dunn said he was “crazy with grief” when he learned of Davis’s death and spent the night vomiting in his hotel bathroom.

Key evidence included a medical examiner testifying that Davis was probably lying on the back seat of the SUV when he was shot, not outside the vehicle and charging towards Dunn as the defendant claimed.

Prosecutors also rounded on several inconsistencies in Dunn’s testimony, particularly that his fiancée Rhonda Rouer told the court that he never told her he had seen Davis brandishing a gun. And they
pointed out that Dunn and Rouer drove two and a half hours to their home in Satellite Beach, Florida, the morning after the shooting without calling the police, even though he knew by then that Davis was dead.

Dunn’s lawyer, Cory Strolla, said during closing arguments that his client had no duty to retreat under Florida’s Stand Your Ground laws and instead had every right to use deadly force to defend himself.

The confrontation took place on the evening of 23 November 2012, at a Gate gas station in Jacksonville when Dunn and Rouer, who had attended the nearby wedding of his son, were on their way back to their hotel three miles away and decided to stop for wine and snacks.

Dunn pulled his car into a space to the right of the teenagers’ red Dodge Durango, and according to Rouer’s testimony, complained that he “hated that thug music” when they heard the loud thumping bass of the rap coming from the vehicle.

Dunn, during his testimony, said he thought the music was “ridiculously loud” but denied calling it thug music. “I’d call it rap-crap,” he said.

He said he asked the boys “respectfully” to turn the music down, which he said they did at first. Then, he said, the volume went back up again, with Davis shouting profanities at him and pointing what he
thought was a shotgun at him.

“I saw sticking above the window sill about four inches of a barrel. It was thick enough to my eye to be 12 gauge, maybe 20,” he said. “I’m looking at the guy in the rear passenger seat. I saw two young men with menacing expressions.”

Dunn insisted that he remained calm and polite throughout the confrontation, retrieving his 9mm pistol from his glove box and firing only when Davis emerged from the SUV’s rear door, swearing and telling him he was going to kill him.

His arrest the following day came because an eyewitness took note of his car’s tag number although Dunn said he was on his way to inform a friend, a federal agent, when detectives in Jacksonville called.

John Phillips, the Davis family attorney, rejected that. “He killed Jordan Davis and never cared to call the police. If we were waiting on the time it took for Mr Dunn to return to the scene or call the police, the clock would now be ticking 447 days,” he said.

Davis’s family settled a civil lawsuit against Dunn and his insurance company last year for undisclosed sum.

Since her son’s death, Davis’s mother Lucia McBath has worked as a spokeswoman for the anti-gun violence group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America and has spoken before the US Senate. His father Ronald Davis has addressed Florida’s House of Representatives.

Barry Slotnick, a lawyer who defended so-called subway vigilante Bernie Goetz after he shot and wounded four would-be muggers in New York in 1984, told the Guardian before the verdict that despite the verdict prosecutors had learned from mistakes made in the Zimmerman case.

“Regardless, they did a much better job of presenting the case to the jury,” he said. “There are mixed opinions about Stand Your Ground but nobody has the absolute right to shoot and kill or injure somebody
without a reasonable belief that their own life or safety is in danger.”
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Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2014, 05:14:13 PM »
American Justice is for certain people only. So a defendants story apparently holds more credibility than that of a medical examiner.  :bs:  Watch as this madness is defended by the institution.
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Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2014, 05:14:53 PM »
Black people need to start buying legal guns.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 06:41:35 PM »
American Justice is for certain people only. So a defendants story apparently holds more credibility than that of a medical examiner.  :bs:  Watch as this madness is defended by the institution.

Ignorance abounds in this comment.  You always quick to play the race card then bawl yuh eh say nutten about race.  The other three teens in the car was black, Dunn was convicted of attempted murder on them.  Dem not black enough?  Or they don't count? 

There was NO verdict... Dunn was not acquitted.  Don't know what so hard for people to understand about that.  The defendant's story held no credibility with the jurors who were adamant that he was guilty, and who held out for a conviction.  How come yuh not talking about that??  Dunn facing a minimum of 75 years in jail... AND they going and re-try him before a different jury on the hung charge.  But allyuh all over the internet bitching and moaning about race and injustice.

Offline kounty

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 08:03:57 PM »
Black people need to start buying legal guns.
when reading the story i was thinking that the next case will be a black dude with an illegal gun claiming stand your ground.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 08:12:11 PM »
Black people need to start buying legal guns.

Dat will solve de problem for sure. When de next Dunn feel threatened, de police will find an actual weapon.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 08:13:27 PM »
Black people need to start buying legal guns.
when reading the story i was thinking that the next case will be a black dude with an illegal gun claiming stand your ground.

They've already had a handful of those cases... most of the SYG defendants have been young black men, after shooting at other young black men.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133

Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 09:55:22 PM »
American Justice is for certain people only. So a defendants story apparently holds more credibility than that of a medical examiner.  :bs:  Watch as this madness is defended by the institution.

Ignorance abounds in this comment.  You always quick to play the race card then bawl yuh eh say nutten about race.  The other three teens in the car was black, Dunn was convicted of attempted murder on them.  Dem not black enough?  Or they don't count? 

There was NO verdict... Dunn was not acquitted.  Don't know what so hard for people to understand about that.  The defendant's story held no credibility with the jurors who were adamant that he was guilty, and who held out for a conviction.  How come yuh not talking about that??  Dunn facing a minimum of 75 years in jail... AND they going and re-try him before a different jury on the hung charge.  But allyuh all over the internet bitching and moaning about race and injustice.

I swear yes, I quick to play the race card cause the card on de table getting hang right through.

Who cares that he eh acquitted, but he was not convicted.

The Jury could not reach a decision, so it had jurors who believed the defendants story, when the ME put forth his findings showing the defendant lying.

He eh kill the other 3 cause he had to ride out.

I AM PLAYING THE RACE CARD.  The american justice system is color blind......you cyah be serious Bakes.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 10:00:16 PM »
I swear yes, I quick to play the race card cause the card on de table getting hang right through.

Who cares that he eh acquitted, but he was not convicted.

The Jury could not reach a decision, so it had jurors who believed the defendants story, when the ME put forth his findings showing the defendant lying.

He eh kill the other 3 cause he had to ride out.

I AM PLAYING THE RACE CARD.  The american justice system is color blind......you cyah be serious Bakes.

Let me help you out... since yuh struggling.  The jurors who held out for convicting Dunn, forcing the mistrial.  Dem was playing the race card?  All 12 convicted him of attempted murder... they loss de race card on dat vote or what?

Color blind is how we want the system.  Clear yuh head and try again.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 10:01:52 PM by Bakes »

Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 12:06:26 AM »
I await with bated breath.



Man charged in teen death says he shot to scare

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — A man accused of fatally shooting a 15-year-old girl told investigators he fired his pistol because he wanted to scare a carload of teenagers he believed vandalized his vehicle, Little Rock police said Tuesday.

Police released an account of the shooting, which they said followed a series of pranks between groups of young people over the weekend. A police spokesman, Lt. Sidney Allen, said the man charged in the shooting is the father of a teenager who was targeted in the exchange of pranks.

Police said Willie Noble, 48, shot at the carload of teenagers after he found eggs, mayonnaise and toilet paper covering his car Friday night. He waited for the teens to return, then fired his gun, police said. Adrian Broadway died early Saturday morning from a gunshot wound to the head.

"Mr. Noble stated that he waited inside because he knew whoever vandalized his vehicle was going to come back. Mr. Noble stated that once they returned (about 45 minutes later), he fired his handgun to scare them," according to the statement released by police Tuesday.

In the news release, police noted that Noble did not call police before or after the shooting. The driver of the car, a mid-size sedan with seven teens in it, fled to a convenience store where the youths called police. Officers found the driver side of the car pocked with bullet holes. Adrian was in the front passenger seat, and later died at a hospital.

Noble is charged with first-degree murder, five counts of aggravated assault and committing a terroristic act. He's being held in the Pulaski County Jail on $1 million bond. Jail records didn't indicate a pending court date or whether he has an attorney. Inmates generally get an attorney around the time they are arraigned.

The prosecutor's office said Tuesday that the case file hadn't yet been sent over by investigators.

The only other person injured was the driver, 18-year-old Dshone Nelson, who was treated for minor cuts from glass that was shattered by the bullets.

Others in the car were all juveniles so police didn't release their names. They included three 15-year-olds, a 14-year-old and a 17-year-old.

Chief Deputy Prosecutor John Johnson said he expects it will take police at least a couple of weeks before they finish investigating and turn the file over to his office, which is customary in a homicide investigation.

Johnson said he couldn't discuss specifics of the pending case.
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Offline ribbit

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 09:51:00 AM »
check what one of de jurors say:

==
One of the jurors in the controversial Florida "loud music" trial is speaking out, telling ABC News in an exclusive interview that the issue of self-defense forced the jury into a deadlock.

Juror #4 – who asked to be identified simply as "Valerie" – said two and then three jurors ultimately believed Michael Dunn was justified in the 2012 shooting death of Jordan Davis. Valerie, who wanted a conviction, says the group knew within the first hour that they would be unable to reach a unanimous decision.

The first thing jurors did when handed the case was turn to page 25 in the jury instructions, she said. The question: do you believe that Michael Dunn was justified or unjustified in the murder of Jordan Davis?"

"It said if he believed that he had an eminent threat to himself or his fiancee, so that was a thing that those two folks believed – he was frightened and there was no other option for him in regards to Mr. Davis," Valerie said. "The rest of us were 100 percent sure, you didn't have to react [with gunfire], you could have had another option.

"We looked at a lot of evidence – and myself, it was where the gunshots were, the timing. Could he have had other options? To me, [the shooting] was unnecessary."

Dunn, 47, never denied that he shot and killed 17-year-old Davis in a gas station parking lot after they got into an argument over loud music. But he pleaded self-defense from the witness stand. Jurors found the middle-aged software developer guilty on four of five charges for shooting at Davis' friends, who were also in the car, as well as firing a gun into a car in the 2012 incident. But the mistrial on the first-degree murder charge for shooting Davis has sparked outrage.

According to Valerie, the jurors who believed Dunn was guilty were split between first-degree, second-degree and manslaughter – but because they were unable to unanimously overcome the issue of self-defense, the jury was deadlocked. The jurors yelled and screamed at each other at one point, but all were respectful of each other's position.

Valerie believes Dunn got away with murder.

"A life was taken. There is no longer a Jordan Davis, and there is only one reason why that is. The boy was shot and killed for reasons that should not have happened," she said.

Valerie believes that Dunn could have rolled up his window, put his car in reverse, or simply ignored the loud music blaring from the other car. Despite the disagreement over whether shooting Davis was justified, all the jurors agreed that Dunn escalated the situation by then shooting at the others inside the car, she said.

Valerie decided to come forward after reading and hearing the outrage the verdict generated. She wants the world to know that the jurors valued the life of Davis. Race was never mentioned in deliberations and was not a factor in the decision, she said.

"Folks don't know the law. It's not that we didn't value Mr. Davis life. We had to make a choice," she said.
==

Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 10:57:30 AM »
Fair enough, but race entered into the fray long before the court room. To think that jurors can just put their bias out and make an impartial decision is foolhardy.

Say what, I don't understand law and common sense does not apply.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 02:49:43 PM »
Fair enough, but race entered into the fray long before the court room. To think that jurors can just put their bias out and make an impartial decision is foolhardy.

Say what, I don't understand law and common sense does not apply.

Some ah allyuh does real kill me with this race talk yes.  The juror speaking here is white, as were 7 others on the jury for a total of 8 white jurors.  Let's assume for argument's sake that the 2 who held out for acquittal were white... that leaves six whites who were ready to and adamant about convicting Dunn. So adamant that they refused to compromise on any lesser charge.. he was guilty and had to pay.  Dem was able to "put aside their bias and make an impartial decision"... but the other two weren't?

Is black people like allyuh, looking for the specter of race around every corner, who does make it hard for the rest of us when legitimate issues of race come up.

Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2014, 10:00:41 AM »
Fair enough, but race entered into the fray long before the court room. To think that jurors can just put their bias out and make an impartial decision is foolhardy.

Say what, I don't understand law and common sense does not apply.

Some ah allyuh does real kill me with this race talk yes.  The juror speaking here is white, as were 7 others on the jury for a total of 8 white jurors.  Let's assume for argument's sake that the 2 who held out for acquittal were white... that leaves six whites who were ready to and adamant about convicting Dunn. So adamant that they refused to compromise on any lesser charge.. he was guilty and had to pay.  Dem was able to "put aside their bias and make an impartial decision"... but the other two weren't?

Is black people like allyuh, looking for the specter of race around every corner, who does make it hard for the rest of us when legitimate issues of race come up.

Bakes,

I get what the Jury did, but I think it still does not sit well. The juror even stated that a couple thought the shooting was justified. There is no way - from the evidence that we were privy to (key ones) - that anyone in an unbiased state of mind can say the shooting was justified.

1) That rap music was the instigating subject (this is the most silly thing to get into an argument for)

2) The age old "threatening black man"

3) No gun was found

4) No one exited the car except the shooter who went to fetch his gun and return to the scene.

Quote
Dunn insisted that he remained calm and polite throughout the confrontation, retrieving his 9 mm pistol from his glove box...


Quote
...medical examiner said she believed the youth was lying on the back seat of the vehicle when he was shot, not outside it...


5) He never called the police, no report nothing, leaving the scene.


As an unbiased juror how can I look at these facts and still think that this shooting was justified. Stand your ground? How can YOU get into an argument, leave fetch your gun and then shoot an unarmed person.


So Bakes, since you think this is not about race, then maybe you think they also got it right in the Trayvon Martin case? These cases are very, very similar. If so, what needs to happen to say race played a part in how things were done?
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2014, 02:13:31 PM »
So Bakes, since you think this is not about race, then maybe you think they also got it right in the Trayvon Martin case? These cases are very, very similar. If so, what needs to happen to say race played a part in how things were done?

I am not going to comment on the Trayvon Martin case... the two cases are not at all "very, very similar" but rather superficial.  White man confronts black youth, claims he feels threatened, shoots black youth, asserts self-defense.  That is a very superficial narrative when comparing the two cases.  Aside from which the Martin case has been commented on ad nauseam, including by me, on this very site.

No one could say for certain what was in the mind of each juror as they deliberated, sometimes yuh have to experience things before yuh could understand them.  I was on a jury some years back, murder case.  70-something black man shot and killed 20-something latino fella.  The story was that the young fella and 3-4 other pardnas roll up on the block on their motorcycles to go lime at a T-shirt/music store owned by another pardna.  The street the store was on is a major avenue and parking not permitted., so they park their bikes on a side street, and walk around the corner.  When they come back now the pardnas roll out, and the decedent lingered behind a couple seconds... long enough for the defendant to confront him about the parking on "his" block and all the noise they make with their bikes when they do.

Confrontation led to the shooting of the decedent as he straddled his bike getting ready to leave.  He was shot once, dead between the eyes.  If you insist on learning more I could go into all the details... I still remember them to this day.  But the details are not really relevant to my point.  10 of us were convinced that it was 2nd degree murder.  2 were convinced it was self-defense.  One of the jurors was this young black fella... who the very morning we were chosen to sit on the panel, when all we had heard at that point was opening statements... sit down with me at lunch and tell me "I think it was self-defense".  Mind you, we not supposed to be discussing the case... but that aside, he mind was done make up.  Making small talk now, we end up talking about how one of his brother was killed by some other fellas, and how he and he pardnas went riding fuh dem.  So I ask him "and what happened"... he answered "Oh, we got them!"

The next juror was a middle-aged black woman.  During deliberations she say something to the effect of "I know how these young fellas can be, they have no respect for anybody."  That might be true, but what does that have to do with this particular case?  There was no evidence that the dead fella was disrespecting anybody.  All the evidence point to the fact that the old man appointed himself sheriff of that block (as one of my fellow jurors accurately put it) pull out his gun and threaten the decedent with it, and when he realized that the fella was reaching for something (turned out to be a handgun in his saddle bag), he realized he'd reached a point of no return and shot him point blank.  Of course he lied about where he was standing, how close to the fella and who pulled gun first.  His testimony was so ludicrous that it insulted our intelligence.  Yet two black jurors (if I remember correctly we were majority black, in keeping with the city's demographics) refused to convict him.

Now... did they refuse to convict because of whatever bias they brought into the jury room with them? Or did they refuse to convict because they were biased against Latinos (which very well could have been the case) and didn't want to send a black man to jail for killing a latino fella?  So tell me Elan, which one was it?

Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 10:40:38 AM »
from Martin case

It doesn't matter what the police chief says... he wasn't there and is basing that on the account of the shooter.  Self-defense requires a response proportional to the threat.  In order to successfully mount a claim of self-defense in this case Zimmerman would have to prove that he was confronted by a threat of death or serious bodily injury.  Hard to make that argument with a straight face, unless he was deathly allergic to Skittles or ice tea.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 10:43:32 AM by elan »
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Offline elan

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 10:48:49 AM »
Bakes yuh going on the presumption that the only bias I see is against black.

Bakes in both instance yuh saying what I said, that the jurors come in with their bias. Most will say race was not an issue.

But leh we forget that for now, the race thing.

I cannot get my mind around how the facts can be seen any other way. How do you explain the outcome?
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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 11:12:40 AM »
from Martin case

It doesn't matter what the police chief says... he wasn't there and is basing that on the account of the shooter.  Self-defense requires a response proportional to the threat.  In order to successfully mount a claim of self-defense in this case Zimmerman would have to prove that he was confronted by a threat of death or serious bodily injury.  Hard to make that argument with a straight face, unless he was deathly allergic to Skittles or ice tea.

Okay... what does this have to do with anything?

Bakes yuh going on the presumption that the only bias I see is against black.

Bakes in both instance yuh saying what I said, that the jurors come in with their bias. Most will say race was not an issue.

But leh we forget that for now, the race thing.

I cannot get my mind around how the facts can be seen any other way. How do you explain the outcome?

Absolutely... the difference is that you're saying it was racial bias.  I'm saying that we don't have enough evidence to say that.  Both jurors we heard from, the white one and the black one say that race did not come up.  Now of course we don't expect the jurors to say "I don't like black people", they could have silently kept that to themselves and use some other pretext to try and justify "self-defense".  But we don't know that.

As for how to explain the outcome... I have no explanation other than that 2 (I'm hearing possibly 3) jurors just thought he was reasonably in fear of his life, so his self-defense argument was valid.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 01:56:08 PM »
if angela corey went for a lesser murder charge like 2nd degree instead of 1st degree, would dunn have been convicted?


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Re: Florida loud music trial: jury fails to reach principal murder verdict
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 02:13:37 PM »
if angela corey went for a lesser murder charge like 2nd degree instead of 1st degree, would dunn have been convicted?



This is a common (and mistaken) refrain by the public... Murder 2 was considered, as was manslaughter.  It made no difference whatsoever.

 

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