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Offline Bitter

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Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« on: April 16, 2014, 06:31:25 PM »
Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
Minority participants aren't just debating resolutions—they're challenging the terms of the debate itself.

JESSICA CAREW KRAFT
APR 16 2014, 12:06 PM ET

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/does-traditional-college-debate-reinforce-white-privilege/360746

It used to be that if you went to a college-level debate tournament, the students you’d see would be bookish future lawyers from elite universities, most of them white. In matching navy blazers, they’d recite academic arguments for and against various government policies. It was tame, predictable, and, frankly, boring.

No more.

These days, an increasingly diverse group of participants has transformed debate competitions, mounting challenges to traditional form and content by incorporating personal experience, performance, and radical politics. These “alternative-style” debaters have achieved success, too, taking top honors at national collegiate tournaments over the past few years.

But this transformation has also sparked a difficult, often painful controversy for a community that prides itself on handling volatile topics. 

On March 24, 2014 at the Cross Examination Debate Association (CEDA) Championships at Indiana University, two Towson University students, Ameena Ruffin and Korey Johnson, became the first African-American women to win a national college debate tournament, for which the resolution asked whether the U.S. president’s war powers should be restricted. Rather than address the resolution straight on, Ruffin and Johnson, along with other teams of African-Americans, attacked its premise. The more pressing issue, they argued, is how the U.S. government is at war with poor black communities.

In the final round, Ruffin and Johnson squared off against Rashid Campbell and George Lee from the University of Oklahoma, two highly accomplished African-American debaters with distinctive dreadlocks and dashikis. Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like “nigga authenticity” and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “f**k the time!” he yelled. His partner Campbell, who won the top speaker award at the National Debate Tournament two weeks later, had been unfairly targeted by the police at the debate venue just days before, and cited this personal trauma as evidence for his case against the government’s treatment of poor African-Americans.

This year wasn't the first time this had happened. In the 2013 championship, two men from Emporia State University, Ryan Walsh and Elijah Smith, employed a similar style and became the first African-Americans to win two national debate tournaments. Many of their arguments, based on personal memoir and rap music, completely ignored the stated resolution, and instead asserted that the framework of collegiate debate has historically privileged straight, white, middle-class students.

Tournament participants from all backgrounds say they have found some of these debate strategies offensive. Even so, the new style has received mainstream acceptance, sympathy, and awards.

Joe Leeson Schatz, Director of Speech and Debate at Binghamton University, is encouraged by the changes in debate style and community. “Finally, there’s a recognition in the academic space that the way argument has taken place in the past privileges certain types of people over others,” he said. “Arguments don’t necessarily have to be backed up by professors or written papers. They can come from lived experience.”

But other teams who have prepared for a traditional policy debate are frustrated when they encounter a meta-debate, or an alternative stylistic approach in competition. These teams say that the pedagogical goals of policy debate are not being met—and are even being undermined. Aaron Hardy, who coaches debate at Northwestern University, is concerned about where the field is headed. “We end up … with a large percentage of debates being devoted to arguing about the rules, rather than anything substantive,” he wrote on a CEDA message board last fall.

Indeed, to prevail using the new approach, students don’t necessarily have to develop high-level research skills or marshal evidence from published scholarship. They also might not need to have the intellectual acuity required for arguing both sides of a resolution. These skills—together with a non-confrontational presentation style—are considered crucial for success in fields like law and business.

Hardy and others are also disappointed with what they perceive as a lack of civility and decorum at recent competitions, and believe that the alternative-style debaters have contributed to this environment. “Judges have been very angry, coaches have screamed and yelled. People have given profanity-laced tirades, thrown furniture, and both sides of the ideological divide have used racial slurs,” he said.

To counter this trend, Hardy and his allies want to create a “policy only” space in which traditional standards for debate will be enforced. However, this is nearly impossible to do within the two major debate associations, CEDA and the National Debate Tournament (NDT), as they are governed by participants and have few conduct enforcement mechanisms. For instance, while CEDA and NDT’s institutional anti-harassment policy would normally prohibit the term “nigga” as it was used at the recent Indiana University tournament finals, none of the judges penalized the competitors that used it. In fact, those debaters took home prizes.

14 schools expressed interest in sending debaters to Hardy’s proposed alternative tournament, scheduled to occur last month. But after word got out that a group of mostly white teams from elite universities were trying to form their own league, Hardy and his supporters were widely attacked on Facebook and other online forums. Ultimately the competition didn’t happen, purportedly because of logistical issues with the hotel venue. Nonetheless, Hardy wrote in an email that a “toxic climate” has precluded even “strong supporters of ‘policy debate’ from “publicly attach[ing] their name to anything that might get them called racist or worse.”

Korey Johnson, the reigning CEDA champion from Towson University, was one of the students who took offense to the alternative tournament. “Separating debate is a bad move,” she said. “With the increase in minority participation came a range of different types of argument and perspectives, not just from the people who are in debate, but the kind of scholarship we bring in.” Her debate partner Ameena Ruffin agreed: “For them to tell us that we can’t bring our personal experience, it would literally be impossible. Not just for black people—it is true of everyone. We are always biased by who we are in any argument.”

Liberal law professors have been making this point for decades. “Various procedures—regardless of whether we're talking about debate formats or law—have the ability to hide the subjective experiences that shape these seemingly ‘objective’ and ‘rational’ rules,” said UC Hastings Law School professor Osagie Obasogie, who teaches critical race theory. “This is the power of racial subordination: making the viewpoint of the dominant group seem like the only true reality.”

Hardy disagrees. “Having minimal rules is not something that reflects a middle-class white bias,” he said. “I think it is wildly reductionist to say that black people can’t understand debate unless there is rap in it—it sells short their potential.” He said he is committed to increasing economic and racial diversity in debate and has set up a nonprofit organization to fundraise for minority scholarships.

According to Joe Leeson Schatz, one of the unstated reasons for trying to set up policy-only debates is that once-dominant debate teams from colleges like Harvard and Northwestern are no longer winning the national competitions. “It is now much easier for smaller programs to be successful,” he said. “You don’t have to be from a high budget program; all you need to win is just a couple of smart students.” Schatz believes that the changes in college debate are widening the playing field and attracting more students from all backgrounds.

Paul Mabrey, a communications lecturer at James Madison University and CEDA vice president, is organizing a conference for this coming June that will address the college debate diversity crisis. “The debate community is broken,” he declared, “but there is nothing wrong with that. We talk about a post-racial America, but we shouldn’t elide our real differences, we should talk about how to work across and work with these differences.”

One thing is clear: In a community accustomed to hashing out every possible argument, this debate will continue. The uncontested benefit of the debate format is that everyone receives equal time to speak, something that drew many minority students to debate in the first place, said Korey Johnson. “No matter how people feel about my argument, they have to listen to me for all of my speeches, everything I have to say, they can’t make me stop speaking,” she said.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 06:35:02 PM »
I read this article and then, of course, went right to the comments, because I knew there would be a heated debate (sorry) about this one.
Then I went online to look at debate footage. I'm sorry. WDMAID?

CEDA 2013 - Kansas C vs Missouri
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/C-x7DL9chqs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/C-x7DL9chqs</a>

CEDA Debate 2013 2
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sWY1Ai9wsqs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sWY1Ai9wsqs</a>

2014 NDCA Quarters - Carrolton GR vs Blake SW
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dSxjffCnyxE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dSxjffCnyxE</a>
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 06:38:10 PM by Bitter »
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Offline Ramgoat

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 06:37:41 PM »
 Does traditional college debates reinforces white privileges? . The answer is  YES

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 07:25:26 PM »
I read this article and then, of course, went right to the comments, because I knew there would be a heated debate (sorry) about this one.
Then I went online to look at debate footage. I'm sorry. WDMAID?

CEDA 2013 - Kansas C vs Missouri
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/C-x7DL9chqs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/C-x7DL9chqs</a>

CEDA Debate 2013 2
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sWY1Ai9wsqs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sWY1Ai9wsqs</a>

2014 NDCA Quarters - Carrolton GR vs Blake SW
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dSxjffCnyxE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dSxjffCnyxE</a>

As a finalist in the NYC Lincoln/Douglas debates back in the day... I don't even recognize this format.  In my opinion, the purpose of the debate is to prepare these kids for formal public speaking... not rapping, not open mic, not extempore.  This is an example of cultural inclusivity gone amok.

Offline elan

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 10:40:58 PM »
I read this article and then, of course, went right to the comments, because I knew there would be a heated debate (sorry) about this one.
Then I went online to look at debate footage. I'm sorry. WDMAID?

CEDA 2013 - Kansas C vs Missouri
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/C-x7DL9chqs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/C-x7DL9chqs</a>

CEDA Debate 2013 2
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sWY1Ai9wsqs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sWY1Ai9wsqs</a>

2014 NDCA Quarters - Carrolton GR vs Blake SW
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/dSxjffCnyxE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/dSxjffCnyxE</a>

As a finalist in the NYC Lincoln/Douglas debates back in the day... I don't even recognize this format.  In my opinion, the purpose of the debate is to prepare these kids for formal public speaking... not rapping, not open mic, not extempore.  This is an example of cultural inclusivity gone amok.

Who dictates formal public speaking?
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 06:28:23 AM »
As long as the debates stress the requirement to formally justify their positions with evidence then the format is irrelevant, what only matters is the validity of their arguments. But then I never debated, so I might be talking shite.

Offline elan

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 10:21:36 AM »
That last video with that girl debating is madness. How is that a debate and you can't even follow what she saying? That's level  :bs:. Is that how people formally speak in public, where at the auction? stueps.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 10:35:41 AM »
That last video with that girl debating is madness. How is that a debate and you can't even follow what she saying? That's level  :bs:. Is that how people formally speak in public, where at the auction? stueps.

Which is why I didn't even bother responding to your last question.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 11:56:20 AM »
ah glad i in sciences oui. humanities real gorn tun tun over head this generation.

who judging these competitions? i woulda fail all of them. tell dem no one deserve to win this year cause allyuh suck. instead dey get some professional victim to applaud this foolishness. steups.

Offline elan

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 12:37:54 PM »
That last video with that girl debating is madness. How is that a debate and you can't even follow what she saying? That's level  :bs:. Is that how people formally speak in public, where at the auction? stueps.

Which is why I didn't even bother responding to your last question.

Well keep your info nah, I could use that other thing that have just a bit lees info than you. The internet.

I never saw a debate and never pictured it to be such a a mess. I thought it was people far more intellectual than me espousing "their arguments" not just regurgitating and quoting research.

I would think a debate will couple experience with research in putting forth one's argument and not just rely on one or the other.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 01:12:21 PM »
Well keep your info nah, I could use that other thing that have just a bit lees info than you. The internet.

I never saw a debate and never pictured it to be such a a mess. I thought it was people far more intellectual than me espousing "their arguments" not just regurgitating and quoting research.

I would think a debate will couple experience with research in putting forth one's argument and not just rely on one or the other.

Is not about keeping info... the question you asked was pretty self-evident.  What dictates formal public speaking?  Convention... stretching all the way back to Cicero, Demosthenes, Mandela, MLK, JFK.  Your ultimate goal is to pursuade, if you could add some stylish flourishes for effect then perfect.  These kids, especially the Dashiki brothers seem more intent on kicking over the table, and convention in the process... all in the name of saying "f**k yo' rules".

Offline Bitter

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 02:32:22 PM »
There is this rebuttal to the original article:
http://lbsbaltimore.com/do-articles-about-alternative-debate-reinforce-white-supremacy/

And this article which explains what is going on and why better.

Colleges Call Debate Contests Out of Order
By JEFFREY R. YOUNG
http://chronicle.com/article/Colleges-Call-Debate-Contests/6808

Postmodern strategies pose challenges to traditional forensics

The world of college debate is an insular one. So when a prominent coach mooned a judge during a tournament in March, officials in the national debate association planned to handle it themselves. Then a video of the incident hit YouTube this summer.

Suddenly, people throughout higher education were wondering: What was happening to one of the oldest forms of academic competition?

Soon after the video appeared, officials at Fort Hays State University fired William Shanahan III, the coach shown dropping his pants. The longtime assistant professor's behavior, they said, violated the university's code of conduct.

Many debate coaches say the incident was simply a case of poor anger management. But officials at Fort Hays were so troubled by what they saw in online recordings of numerous debate competitions around the country that they also suspended the university's team, which had consistently ranked as one of the best in the nation. "The interchanges lack civility and lack respect," says Edward H. Hammond, the university's president.

Competitive debate has traditionally served as a laboratory for the democratic process and an important training ground for future policy makers. But in recent years, a growing number of teams have played the game out of traditional bounds. They have turned events into commentaries on debate itself, in performances that bear little resemblance to the debating traditions that had a place on campuses for more than a hundred years. But the freewheeling aspect is what makes debate so exciting and challenging for students, according to many debate coaches, who say teams should be prepared to respond to any argument.

Now some college officials are asking whether debate is living up to its original educational mission.

Clashing Strategies

One of the Cross Examination Debate Association's first matches of this academic year took place last month in the second floor of the psychology building at Towson University.

The policy topic for this year's debates is agriculture tariffs, and typically the team that goes first chooses a specific position to argue. The opening arguments in one round at Towson sounded like a tape recorder playing with the fast-forward button held down.

Elaine Zhou, a senior at New York University, spewed arguments about why the United States should end tariffs on ethanol from Brazil. Doing so would improve U.S.-Brazilian relations, keep Brazil from becoming a failed state that would seek nuclear weapons, reduce U.S. reliance on fossil fuels, and thus help save the planet. The team had clearly done its homework, and Ms. Zhou gave citations for each argument.

But like many other participants, she fired those arguments so fast that the uninitiated might not recognize her sputtering as English. Ms. Zhou had nine minutes to make the first strike for her two-person team. The flood of words — and occasional gasps for breath — ended abruptly after a digital timer chimed that the first part of the round had ended.

Valarea Jones, a student at Towson University, sat at the other end of the table, scowling. She now had three minutes to cross-examine the NYU team. "Why did you make a conscious decision to read as fast as you did?" she asked. And later, "Do you think that debate is multicultural?"

"We're multicultural," Ms. Zhou replied, noting that none of the contestants in the room were white.

Most tournaments held by the debate association have very few rules. All a team has to do to win, other than meet some time limits, is to persuade three judges to vote for them in any given round.

Someone called time. Ms. Jones rolled up the sleeves of her gray hooded sweatshirt and stood at the front of the room for her six-minute rebuttal. She began with an account of the trading of African slaves in the early years of the United States.

She spoke at normal speed and with emotion.

Ms. Jones, who is African-American, then read from her own diary, focusing on an entry she had written while attending a debate tournament this summer. "We had our first full round today and I want to go the [expletive] home. You should have seen the looks I got from these people. I even asked this one [expletive] what the [expletive] she was staring at," she said. "In the debate world, people look at me and what I have to say as if I'm less than [expletive] human, and this is some serious [expletive]."

She accused her opponents of furthering "white supremacy" by playing by the traditional norms of debate. She urged the judges to make a statement against such oppressive forces by ruling in her favor in the debate round.

Racially Charged

A similar line of argument led to the mooning incident. It began during the quarterfinal round of the association's national tournament last March, when a Fort Hays State team was facing off against a team from Towson.

One of the Towson debaters, Deven Cooper, began the round by criticizing a procedural matter that is not usually discussed during competitions. Each team was given the opportunity to remove one judge from the panel, and Mr. Cooper accused the Fort Hays team of turning down the only African-American judge, Shanara Rose Reid-Brinkley, because of her race. Mr. Cooper called the move "an act that is fully offensive and exclusionary."

"We feel that we cannot address the policies within this round until we address the fundamental issues of white supremacy as well as whiteness in this activity," Mr. Cooper argued in his opening speech.

The debaters from Fort Hays countered that race had nothing to do with their decision, arguing that the request was made for competitive reasons because the judge had been tough on the team in the past. But the Towson team continued to pursue the issue, which dominated the entire round. Mr. Shanahan sat on the floor on the sidelines.

Towson's team won the round, with two judges finding for them and one for Fort Hays. After the judges explained their reasons, Mr. Shanahan and Ms. Reid-Brinkley, an assistant professor of communication at the University of Pittsburgh, got into a shouting match — trading obscenities and personal insults as a camera recorded the scene. At one point, Mr. Shanahan briefly dropped his shorts and exposed his underwear.

Mr. Shanahan has been a controversial and influential figure in college debate for decades. He helped introduce a style of debate that incorporates postmodern theory; in it, debaters question the position from which their opponents are arguing rather than tackling the merits of individual points.

Richard E. Edwards, author of Competitive Debate: The Official Guide and incoming vice president of the American Forensic Association, says that Mr. Shanahan is known to have a temper, but that he also prides himself on promoting social justice and inclusion.

Mr. Edwards was not in the room when the mooning incident occurred, but he has seen the video. "He was accused of being racist there. Those are kind of fighting words — it's hard to hear that," he says. "For Bill, if there's any one thing that would light his fire that would be it." Still, Mr. Edwards says, the coach's actions were inexcusable.

The Chronicle reached Mr. Shanahan at his home soon after he was fired, and he said he regretted his actions that day. "To me it's a terrible shame — it's my shame," he said. "I've known Ms. Reid-Brinkley for 15 years." He said the argument was part of "a profoundly important conversation about race and white privilege that has been going on in debate."

Debate has long been an insular community, he said, and he expected that the aftermath of the argument would be handled quietly. In fact, leaders of the debate association started an investigation into both professors' behavior soon after the tournament with little fanfare.

But after someone posted video of the argument on YouTube five months later, alumni and others began calling for Fort Hays officials to dismiss Mr. Shanahan. Ms. Reid-Brinkley says she will not participate in debate tournaments this year, and Pittsburgh decided to withdraw its teams altogether from this year's tournaments. Some fear more fallout is yet to come.

As a pioneer of the strategy of turning debate rounds into questions about the very framework of debate, Mr. Shanahan says he helped bring in philosophy and the disciplines of critical legal studies and critical race studies to an environment that had been dominated by policy wonks.

And he's proud of that legacy. "It has literally changed the intellectual contours of the activity," he said, arguing that it lets students grapple with ideas that are more common in graduate school than in undergraduate study. "For many it's difficult to even recognize it as the activity of their youth."

Fighting a 'Cookie-Cutter Style'

It was another debate coach, Ede Warner Jr., who first focused on issues of race and identity during debate rounds about eight years ago. Mr. Warner is an associate professor of communication at the University of Louisville, and many call the approach "the Louisville project."

In the 1960s, debate began moving to a format in which participants talked fast and tried to lob as many arguments as they could at opponents, and in the 1990s, the pace got even faster, according to some longtime debate coaches. The result was a move away from oratory, as debaters focused on absorbing information and responding to it. Meanwhile, the demographics of debate had become more and more diverse in a competitive system that is unusually open. Teams from community colleges and small colleges often go head-to-head with those from Ivy League institutions and large state universities. But Mr. Warner felt that the "cookie-cutter style" of standard policy debates left little room to discuss matters of race.

"It was easy strategically to make those issues less relevant to the debate," he says, and he saw his approach as a way to force the issue of race to front and center.

But in 2005, after debaters at several other colleges had embraced "the Louisville project," Mr. Warner abandoned it, concluding that it had become unproductive. "I thought the community was becoming desensitized" to the strategy, he says.

When asked whether Mr. Hammond, the president of Fort Hays State, was correct in calling debate too uncivil, Mr. Warner conceded that "there's some merit in some of those charges." But he and others inside debate wonder whether it is possible to impose new rules on conduct without destroying the essence of the activity.

"You can't just magically snap your fingers and fix this problem," he says. "By now most do think there's a need to change, but there's not much agreement on what needs to be done."

And some professors have criticized Fort Hays officials for suspending its team, saying that doing so is, as one blogger put it, "a blow to academic freedom."

Mr. Hammond says presidents of other universities, many of whom competed in debate while they were in college, have called him in recent weeks praising him for leading toward reform.

"There's a general feeling that this is the opportunity to get standards and a clear statement of professionalism," he says, noting that he is not trying to set guidelines on what topics are debated or to censor speakers.

Robert M. Smith, president of Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania, was one of those who contacted Mr. Hammond to cheer him on. Mr. Smith once coached debate himself, and he says he has been disturbed by what he has seen in recordings of recent debate tournaments.

"Other presidents are looking at some of what are considered 'the sane and normal debates' and they're going, You've got to be kidding?" he says. "It's a complete aberration of what it started out to be."

Slippery Rock doesn't have a debate program, he says, "and we're not going to, given the way that competitive debate operates."

Leaders of the Cross Examination Debate Association are struggling to respond. They have drafted a new code of ethical conduct for the organization and formed a committee to set standards for teaching debate at colleges. But it is unclear whether the changes will be enough to persuade Mr. Hammond and officials at Pittsburgh to return to competitions.

Gordon W. Stables, a vice president at the association and the director of debate at the University of Southern California, says debate is an "academic sport," and it is natural for some contests to become heated. He says most of the changes in debate over the years, such as the introduction of fast talking during matches, have been positive, ensuring that the focus remains on the quality of arguments offered and countered, rather than style of delivery.

"We're deeply disappointed in the entire incident, and we really don't think it represents the pedagogical approach that we try to embody," Mr. Stables says.

Mr. Warner, like many other debate coaches, points out the positives of debate — even the one that preceded the mooning. "There was a pretty good discussion of race that went on for an hour and a half, and at the very end of it went out of control," he says. "That's not bad considering our inability as a country to talk about race."

Escalating Tactics

In last month's debate at Towson, Ms. Jones kept the discussion focused on charges of institutional racism, despite the NYU team's efforts to bring the conversation back to U.S. tariffs on Brazilian ethanol.

At one point, she put a chair on top of a table and sat on it, reminding judges of the account she had read them about slaves placed in chairs on tops of tables to be auctioned off.

When the NYU team argued that they agreed with her that racism is wrong and should be addressed, but in a different, more appropriate forum, Ms. Jones attacked them for essentially dismissing her advocacy. After the debate ended, she made a personal comment to her opponents: "Please don't ever tell nobody that they can't make change. That's just advice."

"That was intense," one of the judges said aloud after the match. The three judges, all college debate coaches, looked over their notes individually for about 15 minutes before announcing the verdict.

The decision was unanimous: Ms. Jones from Towson won the argument.

The judges explained their reasons, which focused on the technical merits of the arguments made. "What you're missing the most is framework in the argument," said Samantha Godbey, one of the judges, of NYU's approach. And she said that the NYU team had not convinced her that a debate round was the wrong forum to discuss charges of racism in the activity. "It belittles her arguments a little bit by saying that her arguments aren't important enough," said Ms. Godbey, a graduate student in political science at West Virginia University.

Joe Keeton, an officer for NYU who was advising the team at the tournament, said in an interview after that match that teams try to prepare for everything, including the Louisville-project strategy.

"In debate we actually call it the clash of civilizations," he says. "When you walk into a round, you really don't know what you're going to get."

"It can be frustrating for people from a traditional world," he says. But traditional teams have developed strategies to diffuse the "identity stuff" during competition, he says. "It's a chess match to some extent — that's kind of what makes it fun."

Will Baker, head coach for NYU's team, agrees. "If debate is going to be a laboratory, by definition it has to go too far," he says. "There was a time when people said that debaters arguing that Communism was good were going to destroy the activity," he says. "I think you want to allow people to experiment."

And experimentation works. This year at the national tournament, a few hours after the mooning incident, the team from Towson won top honors and became the No. 1 team in the country for advancing a protest argument much like the one it ran against Fort Hays State.
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 03:15:33 PM »
This is disgusting behavior...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/OhnaInxAiI8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/OhnaInxAiI8</a>

Offline MEP

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Re: Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 09:09:25 PM »
The last clip is proof positive why the conventional form of debate works best

 

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