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Author Topic: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?  (Read 6241 times)

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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2014, 09:34:13 AM »
What do you make of Sowell?
I agree with him on most issues except foreign policy/national security where he doesn't apply the same scrutiny he applies to social programmes. He favours a large military and a pre-emptive strike on Iran. 

Fair enough.

Any problematics regarding his overriding of the vestiges of enslavement?
I suppose you might referring to a statement such this one.

"The calamitous breakdown of the black family is a comparatively recent phenomenon, coinciding precisely with the rise of the welfare state. Throughout the epoch of slavery and into the early decades of the twentieth century, most black children grew up in two-parent households Post-Civil War studies revealed that most black couples in their forties had been together for at least twenty years. In southern urban areas around 1880, nearly three-fourths of black households were husband-or father-present; in southern rural settings, the figure approached 86%. As of 1940, the illegitimacy rate among blacks nationwide was approximately 15%—scarcely one-fifth of the current figure.As late as 1950, black women were more likely to be married than white women, and only 9% of black families with children were headed by a single parent." - Uncle Tom  ;D Sowell 


I agree with Sowell that to attribute the progress of blacks to the contribution of the civil rights movement is an incomplete evaluation in my view.Since black people made significant progress without it and mentioned using marriage rates as a metric made social progress before that era. Conversely to attribute the current inequities many blacks experience to racism and the oppression of slavery is also flawed as it doesn't consider culture as a factor or the inhibitive properties the welfare system has on all groups , not just blacks. This is not to say that the establishment of voting rights and the desegregation of school didn't have an impact on improving opportunities.   

With respect to economic growth he posits that a group's access to political power does not inherently improve their incomes, using immigrant populations such German American and Japanese Americans as examples. It is rather the proclivity to save and invest and the development of skills within groups that cause their income and the welfare to rise. Further to this, groups have different skills because they come from different places and have different histories. He actually acknowledges that slavery was a tremendous disadvantage to blacks in this regard.





Offline Bakes

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2014, 10:40:02 AM »
I agree with Sowell that to attribute the progress of blacks to the contribution of the civil rights movement is an incomplete evaluation in my view.Since black people made significant progress without it and mentioned using marriage rates as a metric made social progress before that era. Conversely to attribute the current inequities many blacks experience to racism and the oppression of slavery is also flawed as it doesn't consider culture as a factor or the inhibitive properties the welfare system has on all groups , not just blacks. This is not to say that the establishment of voting rights and the desegregation of school didn't have an impact on improving opportunities.   

With respect to economic growth he posits that a group's access to political power does not inherently improve their incomes, using immigrant populations such German American and Japanese Americans as examples. It is rather the proclivity to save and invest and the development of skills within groups that cause their income and the welfare to rise. Further to this, groups have different skills because they come from different places and have different histories. He actually acknowledges that slavery was a tremendous disadvantage to blacks in this regard.






I can't believe supposedly intelligent people still believing this racist canard about black people and welfare.  Jah Gol I suggest you do more research on the representative numbers of black people on welfare before you repeat this nonsense about the welfare state inhibiting black progress.  Also, exactly what aspect of black "culture" is holding us back as a people?  Yuh sounding just like them ignorant Republican and Tea Bagger apologists with this shit.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 10:41:41 AM by Bakes »

Offline elan

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2014, 11:01:03 AM »
Bakes you didn't get yuh Obama free cell phone? Whappen line was too long or what?
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2014, 11:18:50 AM »
I agree with Sowell that to attribute the progress of blacks to the contribution of the civil rights movement is an incomplete evaluation in my view.Since black people made significant progress without it and mentioned using marriage rates as a metric made social progress before that era. Conversely to attribute the current inequities many blacks experience to racism and the oppression of slavery is also flawed as it doesn't consider culture as a factor or the inhibitive properties the welfare system has on all groups , not just blacks. This is not to say that the establishment of voting rights and the desegregation of school didn't have an impact on improving opportunities.   

With respect to economic growth he posits that a group's access to political power does not inherently improve their incomes, using immigrant populations such German American and Japanese Americans as examples. It is rather the proclivity to save and invest and the development of skills within groups that cause their income and the welfare to rise. Further to this, groups have different skills because they come from different places and have different histories. He actually acknowledges that slavery was a tremendous disadvantage to blacks in this regard.






I can't believe supposedly intelligent people still believing this racist canard about black people and welfare.  Jah Gol I suggest you do more research on the representative numbers of black people on welfare before you repeat this nonsense about the welfare state inhibiting black progress.  Also, exactly what aspect of black "culture" is holding us back as a people?  Yuh sounding just like them ignorant Republican and Tea Bagger apologists with this shit.
I will ignore the insults and answer the one question you had.

For one the rate of fatherlessness has a direct impact on household income, criminality, behavioural problems, teenage pregnancy ,scholarship and long term achievement. This is true across all groups but the problem is particularly pronounced in the black population.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2014, 11:26:47 AM »
I will ignore the insults and answer the one question you had.

For one the rate of fatherlessness has a direct impact on household income, criminality, behavioural problems, teenage pregnancy ,scholarship and long term achievement. This is true across all groups but the problem is particularly pronounced in the black population.

I am yet to insult you, I expressed surprise someone presumably as intelligent as you would repeat the nonsense you did.  What you repeated was nonsense... it's no insult to call it what it is.  As for your 'answer'... nothing you describe is a part of black (or even African American "culture") and to the extent that you're tempted to argue that it is, the genesis of poverty and fatherlessness can directly be attributed to vestiges of slavery.  You can't have it both ways.  A lot of the other maladies, such as teenage pregnancy, behavioral problems and the disconnect with academics flow directly from the lack of involvement of black fathers, lack of proper parentage and poverty.  As a consequence, they too are indirect vestiges of slavery.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2014, 12:39:31 PM »
I will ignore the insults and answer the one question you had.

For one the rate of fatherlessness has a direct impact on household income, criminality, behavioural problems, teenage pregnancy ,scholarship and long term achievement. This is true across all groups but the problem is particularly pronounced in the black population.

I am yet to insult you, I expressed surprise someone presumably as intelligent as you would repeat the nonsense you did.  What you repeated was nonsense... it's no insult to call it what it is.  As for your 'answer'... nothing you describe is a part of black (or even African American "culture") and to the extent that you're tempted to argue that it is, the genesis of poverty and fatherlessness can directly be attributed to vestiges of slavery.  You can't have it both ways.  A lot of the other maladies, such as teenage pregnancy, behavioral problems and the disconnect with academics flow directly from the lack of involvement of black fathers, lack of proper parentage and poverty.  As a consequence, they too are indirect vestiges of slavery.
This is your interpretation of what I said and it is wrong. The data actually showed that marriage rates increased after slavery continuously to the extent that, and I will repeat nonsense as you put it , "As late as 1950, black women were more likely to be married than white women, and only 9% of black families with children were headed by a single parent."

Something else has to be the cause of fatherlessness. I didn't say slavery was the cause at all. The culture I was referring to is associated with the institutional dependency on social programmes that actually incentivizes irresponsibility and the lack of parenting that produces dysfunctional children who can't compete in the real world.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2014, 01:22:25 PM »
This is your interpretation of what I said and it is wrong. The data actually showed that marriage rates increased after slavery continuously to the extent that, and I will repeat nonsense as you put it , "As late as 1950, black women were more likely to be married than white women, and only 9% of black families with children were headed by a single parent."

Something else has to be the cause of fatherlessness. I didn't say slavery was the cause at all. The culture I was referring to is associated with the institutional dependency on social programmes that actually incentivizes irresponsibility and the lack of parenting that produces dysfunctional children who can't compete in the real world.

I suggest you read what I wrote closer, because the misinterpretation is all yours.  You didn't say slavery was the cause, I did.  I said you can't blame the lack of progress on "black culture" while disingenously failing to recognize that symptoms you describe as "cultural" are really vestigial remnants of slavery.  That is what I meant by you can't have it both ways.

I am further stunned... say nothing of insulted by your insistance that there is some sort of "institutional dependency on social programmes."  You speak from a position of ignorance and my initial exhortation didn't sufficiently apprise you of that, apparently.  Yours is the often-repeated misrepresentation of reality that blacks have this special affinity for social programs.  "Institutional dependency" is the word you used... when the reality states just the opposite:

Quote
Another finding of the study is that the distribution of benefits no longer aligns with the demography of poverty. African-Americans, who make up 22 percent of the poor, receive 14 percent of government benefits, close to their 12 percent population share.

White non-Hispanics, who make up 42 percent of the poor, receive 69 percent of government benefits – again, much closer to their 64 percent population share.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/who-benefits-from-the-safety-net/

Me calling your contribution ignorant and uninformed isn't meant to insult you, I bear you no personal animus.  Rather it's meant to challenge you to avoid falling for the insidious trap that so many blacks from the diaspora fall for, the demonization of African Americans, usually driven by perniciousness and laziness in the press, and bought into by non-African American blacks, some as a way of thinking themselves better than American-born blacks.  Black people are benefitting at or near their per capita representation in the population, while white people are getting 1.5 times their per capita representation, yet in so many minds the face of welfare remains a black/brown face.  Where is the institutional dependency that you talk of?  Do you have proof?  Or do you think that black Americans are busy passing a legacy of dependency to their children?  To be sure, this happens in pockets... but it happens in larger numbers in Appalachia where blacks have a miniscular footprint.  That's the story that's never told.  And not to stereotype the good people of W. Va and Ky too much... it happens in traditionally 'red' quarters such as Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee as well.  But you wouldn't know this unless you force yourself to look at the actual demographic breakdown of government dependency.


As for your argument on fatherlessness... you cite marriage statistics as your proof, when in reality you need to be looking at out-of-wedlock births.  The number of marriages in the black community has fallen... as has the number of marriages across all races.  What you seemingly don't know is that the number of out-of-wedlock births has been declining in the black community:

Quote
The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overal trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2009/02/the-math-on-black-out-of-wedlock-births/6738/

However, the number of babies born to married blacks has also dropped precipitously... far steeper than the out-of-wedlock births.  If you understand statistics you'll understand why then the RATE of out-of-wedlock births has risen, even though the actual INCIDENCE of out-of-wedlock births has fallen.  You can only compare out-of-wedlock births to births to married couples, and if the latter is falling faster than the former, then you end up with a statistically skewed perspective which fuels the misinformation that you are now repeating.

Offline elan

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2014, 02:27:08 PM »
Good read from The Huff.Post

Quote
While racial and ethnic minorities are more likely to live in poverty, race disparities in the poverty rate have narrowed substantially since the 1970s, census data show. Economic insecurity among whites also is more pervasive than is shown in the government's poverty data, engulfing more than 76 percent of white adults by the time they turn 60, according to a new economic gauge being published next year by the Oxford University Press.

The gauge defines "economic insecurity" as experiencing unemployment at some point in their working lives, or a year or more of reliance on government aid such as food stamps or income below 150 percent of the poverty line. Measured across all races, the risk of economic insecurity rises to 79 percent.


Marriage rates are in decline across all races, and the number of white mother-headed households living in poverty has risen to the level of black ones.

"It's time that America comes to understand that many of the nation's biggest disparities, from education and life expectancy to poverty, are increasingly due to economic class position," said William Julius Wilson, a Harvard professor who specializes in race and poverty. He noted that despite continuing economic difficulties, minorities have more optimism about the future after Obama's election, while struggling whites do not.

"There is the real possibility that white alienation will increase if steps are not taken to highlight and address inequality on a broad front," Wilson said.

___

Nationwide, the count of America's poor remains stuck at a record number: 46.2 million, or 15 percent of the population, due in part to lingering high unemployment following the recession. While poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics are nearly three times higher, by absolute numbers the predominant face of the poor is white.
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2014, 04:47:43 PM »
This is your interpretation of what I said and it is wrong. The data actually showed that marriage rates increased after slavery continuously to the extent that, and I will repeat nonsense as you put it , "As late as 1950, black women were more likely to be married than white women, and only 9% of black families with children were headed by a single parent."

Something else has to be the cause of fatherlessness. I didn't say slavery was the cause at all. The culture I was referring to is associated with the institutional dependency on social programmes that actually incentivizes irresponsibility and the lack of parenting that produces dysfunctional children who can't compete in the real world.

I suggest you read what I wrote closer, because the misinterpretation is all yours.  You didn't say slavery was the cause, I did.  I said you can't blame the lack of progress on "black culture" while disingenously failing to recognize that symptoms you describe as "cultural" are really vestigial remnants of slavery.  That is what I meant by you can't have it both ways.

I am further stunned... say nothing of insulted by your insistance that there is some sort of "institutional dependency on social programmes."  You speak from a position of ignorance and my initial exhortation didn't sufficiently apprise you of that, apparently.  Yours is the often-repeated misrepresentation of reality that blacks have this special affinity for social programs.  "Institutional dependency" is the word you used... when the reality states just the opposite:

Quote
Another finding of the study is that the distribution of benefits no longer aligns with the demography of poverty. African-Americans, who make up 22 percent of the poor, receive 14 percent of government benefits, close to their 12 percent population share.

White non-Hispanics, who make up 42 percent of the poor, receive 69 percent of government benefits – again, much closer to their 64 percent population share.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/who-benefits-from-the-safety-net/


The same study you're citing points to Social Security as having the highest share of 'government benefits'. Social Security is of course a form retirement insurance that you pay into over a number of years.  69% of its beneficiaries are white whereas 14 % are black.   

I was shocked by the 14% statistic so much that I did some research. Multiple sources come up a breakdown more like this than what you're pointing to. 

Percent of recipients who are white   38.8 %
Percent of recipients who are black   39.8 %
Percent of recipients who are Hispanic   15.7 %
Percent of recipients who are Asian   2.4 %
Percent of recipients who are Other   3.3 %

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
-Source: US Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Department of Commerce, CATO Institute
Research Date: 1.1.2014
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2009/tab08
Some others too but I didn't want to use ask.com and yahoo answers


Quote
The basic conclusion is that the birth rate for unmarried black women is--and has been--declining. In 1970 the birth rate for unmarried black women was 96 per 1,000. In 1980, it was 87.9. In 2005 it was 60.6. There is a huge spike in the late 1980s, but the overal trend is clear--the birth rate for unmarried black women has been declining for almost 40 years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2009/02/the-math-on-black-out-of-wedlock-births/6738/

However, the number of babies born to married blacks has also dropped precipitously... far steeper than the out-of-wedlock births.  If you understand statistics you'll understand why then the RATE of out-of-wedlock births has risen, even though the actual INCIDENCE of out-of-wedlock births has fallen.  You can only compare out-of-wedlock births to births to married couples, and if the latter is falling faster than the former, then you end up with a statistically skewed perspective which fuels the misinformation that you are now repeating.

The overall birthrate among all groups declined. This is likely due to greater female participation in the workforce, innovation of and and access to birth control and abortion. The relevant statistic though is 70% of all black children are born to unmarried women.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2014, 06:32:55 PM »
The same study you're citing points to Social Security as having the highest share of 'government benefits'. Social Security is of course a form retirement insurance that you pay into over a number of years.  69% of its beneficiaries are white whereas 14 % are black.   

I was shocked by the 14% statistic so much that I did some research. Multiple sources come up a breakdown more like this than what you're pointing to. 

Percent of recipients who are white   38.8 %
Percent of recipients who are black   39.8 %
Percent of recipients who are Hispanic   15.7 %
Percent of recipients who are Asian   2.4 %
Percent of recipients who are Other   3.3 %

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
-Source: US Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Department of Commerce, CATO Institute
Research Date: 1.1.2014
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2009/tab08
Some others too but I didn't want to use ask.com and yahoo answers

From the same study... http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3677

"Such beliefs are starkly at odds with the basic facts regarding social programs, the analysis finds. Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percentof the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households.  People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.

Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64.  Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes."


So once you get past the numbers... only 2% (or less) of federal expenditure on public assistance goes towards food stamps and other things that you don't have to pay into, usually the poster child for Republican claims of abuse.  So tell us again about this "institutional dependency" that yuh talking about.  What are black people institutionally dependent on... medical care and unemployment insurance benefits et al?  Things that come out of their paycheck, in other words?  Yuh want to discount social security because you have to pay into that, well discount everything else that you have to pay into as well.  Nearly 3% of every paycheck for the average worker goes towards Medicare.  Another 6.2% goes towards FICA... this is how much money people have to pay into the system in order to qualify for benefits, so if more black people benefitting is because they already earned it.  Nothing for free.  So tell us about this institutional dependency... please.


Quote
The overall birthrate among all groups declined. This is likely due to greater female participation in the workforce, innovation of and and access to birth control and abortion. The relevant statistic though is 70% of all black children are born to unmarried women.

[/quote]

Simply repeating that 70% of all black children being born to unmarried women doesn't make the case that blacks today are worse off than 50 years ago, or that the situation has gotten worse post-the Civil Rights era... which was the conclusion that you and Sowell support.  Hard to say that more black babies are being born to unwed mothers than pre-Civil Rights when the numbers have been steadily dropping.  THAT is the relevant statistic.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2014, 10:55:59 AM »
You might be able to patch together a valid argument to support his conclusions, but the man is a sad, attention-seeking clown. If you really want to understand african-american problematics from a conservative point of view surely you can find a better starting point than a pastor who refers to even the best of his own people as dirty n*ggers.  Better yuh join the klan.

zando, if you recall a few months back when just cool was still contributing, de videos of tommy sotomayor made a good run. personally i find manning's arguments re de black family alot more optimistic than sotomayor who basically has written off black woman as being inimical to the interests (if not the survival) of black men.

where you rate sotomayor's argument?

dey used to talk about "douglarization" and ah seeing some parallels in de usa. no surprise dat obama reach de highest office partly on the strength of his mixed heritage.

an out and out BLACK candidate will never be president of the united states.

Offline elan

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2014, 03:47:00 PM »
You might be able to patch together a valid argument to support his conclusions, but the man is a sad, attention-seeking clown. If you really want to understand african-american problematics from a conservative point of view surely you can find a better starting point than a pastor who refers to even the best of his own people as dirty n*ggers.  Better yuh join the klan.

zando, if you recall a few months back when just cool was still contributing, de videos of tommy sotomayor made a good run. personally i find manning's arguments re de black family alot more optimistic than sotomayor who basically has written off black woman as being inimical to the interests (if not the survival) of black men.

where you rate sotomayor's argument?

dey used to talk about "douglarization" and ah seeing some parallels in de usa. no surprise dat obama reach de highest office partly on the strength of his mixed heritage.

an out and out BLACK candidate will never be president of the united states.

You bring Sotomayor into some very relevant and FACTUAL discussion?

Tommy is a big clown with lots of mental issues.
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Offline Controversial

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2014, 06:00:38 PM »
some forget that the 50s were a turbulent decade... rosa parks, MLK, Malcolm X, the korean war... american households being influenced by the media because tvs were now going into their homes... the first non segregated schools... poverty and class being one of the main reasons divorce rates rose in the US in the african american community... a lot of animosity was created with the introduction of non segregation..

not to mention reagan's push for no-fault divorce in the 60s, because of his previous troubles, which would add to the rise of divorce rates in all races...

fast forward to recent times, women in the african american community are making more money and are more educated than african american males.. so most are not getting married and if they do, the divorce rate is high because their spouses are not contributing as they are.. that's why more and more african american women are marrying out of their race, interesting stat in 2003 showed that african american women marrying white males had a 44% lower divorce rate than white men marrying white females and also a lower divorce rate than marrying african american males...

 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:04:47 PM by Controversial »

Offline Ramgoat

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2014, 06:18:06 PM »
The premise of this thread is absurd. " are blacks better off today than 50 years ago? "
 Of course they are . Would those in opposition want to go back to Jim crow , lynchings , segregation like.
  back of the bus or separate drinking fountains?
 I am constrained from saying what I actually feels with the threat of being banned and  so I will say that  that that  90 % of all problems of black people are caused by institutionalized racism and the other 10 %  are black people's    fault .
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:21:30 PM by Ramgoat »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2014, 08:23:30 PM »
You bring Sotomayor into some very relevant and FACTUAL discussion?

Tommy is a big clown with lots of mental issues.

Is Ribbit yuh talking to yuh know.

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2014, 10:27:12 PM »
You might be able to patch together a valid argument to support his conclusions, but the man is a sad, attention-seeking clown. If you really want to understand african-american problematics from a conservative point of view surely you can find a better starting point than a pastor who refers to even the best of his own people as dirty n*ggers.  Better yuh join the klan.

zando, if you recall a few months back when just cool was still contributing, de videos of tommy sotomayor made a good run. personally i find manning's arguments re de black family alot more optimistic than sotomayor who basically has written off black woman as being inimical to the interests (if not the survival) of black men.

where you rate sotomayor's argument?

dey used to talk about "douglarization" and ah seeing some parallels in de usa. no surprise dat obama reach de highest office partly on the strength of his mixed heritage.

an out and out BLACK candidate will never be president of the united states.

ribbit these people cannot be taken seriously. their language is emotional, prejudicial, imprecise, and drives them logical dead ends.

at least sotomayor seems to think there is a remedy. de good pastor doh seem to care whether you are a doctor or ditchdigger...once yuh black you have a low mentality....with the exception of himself of course.

his big idea that the black man never 'built anything' is a prime example of circular 'logic'. these gentlemen have excellent entertainment value. but their ideas are not worth more than a few keystrokes.
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2014, 10:28:13 PM »
You bring Sotomayor into some very relevant and FACTUAL discussion?

Tommy is a big clown with lots of mental issues.

Is Ribbit yuh talking to yuh know.

Lol
Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Are Black Americans Better Off 50 Years After The Civil Rights Act?
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2014, 04:50:05 AM »
Jah Gol, you'll find the following excerpt (and the article from which it is extracted) insightful.

Quote
In Civil Rights: Rhetoric or Reality? (1984), Sowell concedes that the migration to the United States explaining Afro-Caribbean social mobility in the States might have been selective, while continuing to insist that “culture” is the determining factor in the socio-economic profile of Afro-Caribbeans. From
an argument innocent of the evidence, he has progressed to one made in spite of the evidence.
Sowell has been equally glib in dismissing as irrelevant the Caribbean immigrants’ level of education at the time of their U.S. arrival. He relies, not on direct evidence about the migrants, but on an illogical extrapolation from the experience of their children. Second-generation West Indians in New York City
did even better than their parents, according to his reading of 1970 census data.Since they were most likely educated in the United States, he reasons, superior education in the Caribbean cannot have played a role in their success; therefore, it played no role in the success of their parents’ generation, either. Sowell thus ostentatiously begs the question. The relative success of the second generation, far from proving that the first generation enjoyed no educational advantage,is more likely an index of that very advantage.

As to the educational advantage of the first generation, the evidence is clear. James Weldon Johnson, a keen observer of the transformation of black New York in the early twentieth century, noted in 1930 that there was “practically no illiteracy among [immigrants from the British West Indies],” many having “a
sound English common school education.”
The reports of the Commissioner General for Immigration, a valuable resource inexplicably untapped by either Sowell or his critics, corroborate his observation. As early as 1923, 98.6 percent of black migrants entering the country were literate and, by 1932, 99.0 percent were. Only 1.1 percent of adult black migrants who came to America from 1918 to 1932 were illiterate; between 1920 and 1930, only 0.86 percent, and in 1930, only 0.41 percent (see Table 3). The fact that literacy was a general requirement for adults entering the United States under the 1917 Immigration Act ensured that the early stream of Caribbean migrants would be selected from a narrow stratum of Caribbean society.

The commissioner general’s figures understate, moreover, the literacy rate of immigrants from the British Caribbean, since they provide only aggregate figures covering all black immigrants, regardless of nationality and provenance.

Other sources make clear that literacy levels varied from group to group among black immigrants, literacy being higher in the Caribbean than in the Portuguese colonized Cape Verde Islands and higher in some parts of the British Caribbean than others. Black Barbadians, for instance, have always possessed a higher, and black Bahamians a lower level of literacy than other black Caribbeans. During the early years of the twentieth century, a large number of black Cape Verdeans entering the country lowered the general level of literacy among black immigrants; although even the black Cape Verdeans were far more literate than the white Portuguese, whose illiteracy rate (68.2 percent) was the highest of any immigrants entering the United States between 1899 and 1910.

...

Exploring Afro-Caribbean Social Mobility in the United States: Beyond the Sowell Thesis

Winston James

« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 04:57:37 AM by asylumseeker »

 

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