There is a saying which goes: If you fix Laventille you fix Trinidad & Tobago

[Socapro]

There is a saying which goes: If you fix Laventille you fix Trinidad & Tobago.
Laventille in this context signifying the poorer and neglected areas of the country.

Who here agrees or disagrees with this saying and why?

[Tiresais]

Typically, the issues of the most deprived parts of the country will be good barometers of problems elsewhere. You look at the most deprived parts of the UK, and you have immigration issues, lack of support, no jobs, low qualifications, decades of under-investment by local authorities, and other issues that mirror the "soft underbelly" of society.

[congo]

I disagree...I don't see the poor as the problem in Trinidad's society. The real problem are the professional class and the upper class. These are the people constantly failing the society. They have the power to transform the nation but choose not to do so for profit. Even crime doesn't originate in the poor areas.

[Socapro]

I disagree...I don't see the poor as the problem in Trinidad's society. The real problem are the professional class and the upper class. These are the people constantly failing the society. They have the power to transform the nation but choose not to do so for profit. Even crime doesn't originate in the poor areas.

I suspect that you miss read the question.
How does fixing the poor areas not benefit society as a whole especially when most of the talented folks who contribute to music, culture and sports to help put the country on the map tend to come from those poorer areas?

When I talk about fixing those poorer areas I am referring to giving them better community facilities for culture, sports, schooling, better roads, clean running water, and other facilities, etc usually only afforded to the better off areas.
How would that not benefit the country at large especially when so much talent comes from these poorer areas that might otherwise be lost to poverty and crime?

[congo]

Yeah but you asked about fixing Trinidad. I don't think that our problems begin in the ghettos and the slums. They begin in Parliament. Putting more community centre etc in these areas are just surface solutions. These solutions are only put forward as a way of keeping youths of of trouble. No one cares that the youths may be hungry and frustrated at the lack of life opportunities but let's give them more courts and centres to keep them out of trouble. A fixed laventille scares people. They don't want to see those people prosper and become educated. What nation has ever wanted a strong and united black community? You could imagine the amount of chaos that would take place in this country if black people united with a purpose. That's scary. That will never be allowed.

[Socapro]

Yeah but you asked about fixing Trinidad. I don't think that our problems begin in the ghettos and the slums. They begin in Parliament. Putting more community centre etc in these areas are just surface solutions. These solutions are only put forward as a way of keeping youths of of trouble. No one cares that the youths may be hungry and frustrated at the lack of life opportunities but let's give them more courts and centres to keep them out of trouble. A fixed laventille scares people. They don't want to see those people prosper and become educated. What nation has ever wanted a strong and united black community? You could imagine the amount of chaos that would take place in this country if black people united with a purpose. That's scary. That will never be allowed.

So you are against fixing the poor areas and you don't think fixing them including access to better schools with better teachers etc will have a much greater positive impact on the country than spending money mainly on further developing the better off areas as they currently do, i.e. the politicians and richer people mainly focused on looking after themselves?

[congo]

Of course I would like for them to get better access to schools and teachers etc but who's gonna lobby on behalf of these people to make this happen? Many teachers dread the day that they are required to teach in these areas. It's all lip service at the end of the day. These communities have been engineered to be failures. It is not in the politicians and upper classes interest to empower these communities. I personally believe that PNM has done more harm than good for the black community in the country. The UNC has been better at uniting its base. I think Tobago would go a lot further in life if they were allowed to chart their own destiny. They have a different value system and sense of community there. That is critical in terms of development. We have too many conflicting and competing interest in this tiny nation.

[Socapro]

Of course I would like for them to get better access to schools and teachers etc but who's gonna lobby on behalf of these people to make this happen? Many teachers dread the day that they are required to teach in these areas. It's all lip service at the end of the day. These communities have been engineered to be failures. It is not in the politicians and upper classes interest to empower these communities. I personally believe that PNM has done more harm than good for the black community in the country. The UNC has been better at uniting its base. I think Tobago would go a lot further in life if they were allowed to chart their own destiny. They have a different value system and sense of community there. That is critical in terms of development. We have too many conflicting and competing interest in this tiny nation.

So don't the people from the poorer areas vote?
Why have we given up on them being treated fairly and being given their fair share of the country's wealth and investment for the future especially when these communities have provided many of our scholars in the past in addition to most of of our cultural, music and sporting pioneers and ambassadors?
Trinidad & Tobago as a county on the map would have little or no cultural identity if it wasn't for the contributions of folk from these poorer areas from Calypso to Steelband to Soca.
Do we not recognize that oppressing these poorer areas is also oppressing the potential of the nation to rise and be a first world country leading the world in most areas?
Are we so blinded by greed and selfishness that we can't see the big picture for a better future as a nation with reduced crime, etc if only we invest more in developing the talent and potential within these poorer communities?!

[congo]

Homie you are preaching to the choir inno. I agree with what you are saying. This country is very advantageous. I saw SIS was in Diego Martin doing some community outreach thingy. The company had a family day type thing and they said that it was important to give back to the community for the benefit of the country. Now mind you they are only going in the areas where the UNC is weak in and putting on these types of shows/community outreach. The funny thing is they could do so much more good by being more honest and accountable to the taxpayers. These poor and depressed communities need to be awaken and educated. They hold a lot more power than they realise.

I've seen people be denied jobs because of their address. Mind you these people had multiple distinctions and top of the line qualifications but their address did them no favours. Now this is where I get pissed at my fellow countrymen because that person has a lot to offer and has already overcome enough obstacles in this life. It's disgusting for an employer to look at someone's address and still not hire them even after this person has already displayed enough strength and courage to succeed regardless of their surroundings.

[Socapro]

I've seen people be denied jobs because of their address. Mind you these people had multiple distinctions and top of the line qualifications but their address did them no favours. Now this is where I get pissed at my fellow countrymen because that person has a lot to offer and has already overcome enough obstacles in this life. It's disgusting for an employer to look at someone's address and still not hire them even after this person has already displayed enough strength and courage to succeed regardless of their surroundings.

So when a company does not hire the best qualified and most hard working workers, doesn't that company suffer in the future for not being as profitable as it could have been?
Isn't that not a primitive and backward practise to not hire someone because of their address (or skin colour in some cases) rather than their qualifications?
And this is an example of why there is so much crime in our country as the poorer folks have the perception that they are being discriminated against and folks in a position of power are doing their best to keep them poor and uneducated.
Hopelessness can lead to many poorer folks turning to a life of crime especially when they know that many of the richer folks are already criminals themselves and so are setting the example of crime being the best way to become rich and successful in this life.

[congo]

No the company doesn't suffer because the market isn't competitive. A lot of companies are operating based on contracts received from the state. Had the market been more competitive then they would have been forced to hire the best and the brightest.

 That's another thing with our education system. It doesn't cater to the best and the brightest. It caters to the well connected. I know rich people who went prestige schools wasted their lives and came out with no subjects and are gainfully employed as managers etc. I know people who graduate with masters etc and can't even get an interview with these companies. Now how is that fair? Again it falls in the laps of the politicians and the judiciary to have better legislation to protect the vulnerable in society but they don't care.

Look at our gun laws. A guy living in the ghetto would never be allowed to get a gun to protect both him and his family. The min of nat security was vex that they made it public that both him and his wife are licensed firearm owners? A guy who is protected 24/7 by the state security apparatus, who also happens to own a security firm, who also lives in a gated community with its own security patrols etc. He and his wife need licensed firearms? They don't care.

One of the ministers was at my house a few weeks ago and he has the nerve to tell me that I should get out of TnT before it's too late...Imagine a minister telling you that. They have no shame. They run the country down and still don't want to make way for others who may have better ideas on taking the country forward.

[Socapro]

No the company doesn't suffer because the market isn't competitive. A lot of companies are operating based on contracts received from the state. Had the market been more competitive then they would have been forced to hire the best and the brightest. That's another thing with our education system. It doesn't cater to the best and the brightest. It caters to the well connected. I know rich people who went prestige schools wasted their lives and came out with no subjects and are gainfully employed as managers etc. I know people who graduate with masters etc and can't even get an interview with these companies. Now how is that fair?

Yeah, I get you. And if I am a managing director who got my position because of connections rather than my qualifications then I sure don't want to hire anyone who is way more qualified than me and and who will show me up and be a threat to my comfortable position.
I guess corruption breeds corruption and this is what is ultimately going to keep us as a third world country with increasing crime, etc.
How do we bring about a change?!! 

[zuluwarrior]

I feel if the politicians want to solve the problems in Laventille they should read the book Laventille ,the answer could be  in there.

And beside that the  black man got to learn how to love themselves .

[congo]

Sad to say but that change only coming about through brute force. That corruption to deep and widespread. Imagine 100 million us dollars worth of coke could depart south america, pass through our waters, reach on our land, be move, stored and repackaged and then be allowed to depart from our shores and not a peep. That is a scary breach of nat security and a failure in gathering intelligence. We are a failed state.

The politicians don't want to solve laventille. There is no profit in solving laventille to them.

[Socapro]

Sad to say but that change only coming about through brute force. That corruption to deep and widespread. Imagine 100 million us dollars worth of coke could depart south america, pass through our waters, reach on our land, be move, stored and repackaged and then be allowed to depart from our shores and not a peep. That is a scary breach of nat security and a failure in gathering intelligence. We are a failed state.

The politicians don't want to solve laventille. There is no profit in solving laventille to them.

But fixing Laventille and other similar areas in T&T is going to have a bigger positive impact on the country than almost anything else.

Or are you saying that the politicians are not there to serve and help the country but rather to fill their pockets and help their friends in high positions who may have sponsored their campaign to get voted into power?

[congo]

You trolling me or that is a serious question you asking me? I really not sure.

[Socapro]

You trolling me or that is a serious question you asking me? I really not sure.

Its a serious question. If I already knew your opinion then I would not ask you of it.

[congo]

Yeah bro...They don't care..It's all about fixing their friends, families and financiers.

[Socapro]

Yeah bro...They don't care..It's all about fixing their friends, families and financiers.

How do we change this as the future for T&T is not bright if we continually end up electing self-serving politicians into government who don't really care about working hard and serving the people and the country as a whole as they promised to do during their election campaign?

[congo]

It's very hard but I believe that we are doomed to fail. Our country is nothing more than a bad science project...Too many races, too many religions all in one tiny spot fighting for limited resources. People don't realise that black people are really a homeless and lost people. Black people don't have an ancestral home. Jewish descendants can turn back to Israel etc and syrians can look to syria. They have a sense of identity. Remember slavery took away all that by decimating generations. There was no way to record history to pass on to descendents. People say Africa is home but what does that mean exactly to the average black person.

  Anywhere you go in the world and you look at the black population, they are failing and barely surviving. Any country you visit, the black people make up the majority in slums and ghettos. Black people come like gypsies in a way. They go wherever opportunity may present itself. That's because within our own system there is little opportunity. So it's difficult to settle and build a community.  Even in the majority black countries, you see the white population enjoying the wealth whilst the black population live in abject poverty. It takes generations to change that.

On our side, our politicians are going to be forced to account. The internet and easy access to tertiary education has increased the overall intelligence of the youth. I personally having gotten used to UK PMQ's refuse to even lend ear to what Anil and co have to say. Our politicians are a different breed of backward. It recently dawned on me that a lot of our politicians were around before the union jack was lowered and then it really hit me that they all believe that they are entitled to sit on that PM chair. They are the new colonialist. They haven't broken from those chains as yet and they mold their lives and the way they govern by what they grew up seeing. Could you imagine a US president making such a statement as "when I speak no damn dog bark". Never, all men are created "equal" under the constitution of the United States of America right.

[asylumseeker]

congo, how influential do you find PMQs to be? Been doing some thinking about this recently ...

[congo]

congo, how influential do you find PMQs to be? Been doing some thinking about this recently ...

I find it highly entertaining to be honest. I'm not sure how effective it really is in terms of accountability. I think the average british person isn't that informed or care about what's happening in parliament.

[asylumseeker]

congo, how influential do you find PMQs to be? Been doing some thinking about this recently ...

I find it highly entertaining to be honest. I'm not sure how effective it really is in terms of accountability. I think the average british person isn't that informed or care about what's happening in parliament.

They have some value in terms of transparency, and they are also a collective steward of the democratic process. In difficult moments, PMQs can put a gov't under pressure. Think back to Tony Blair and the Iraq issue for instance.

To have full effect, you're right, public participation is key. However, on the other hand, they are a great education tool also. Also good for clarifying policy.

Yuh eh lie doh, plenty entertainment value.

[congo]

I think that british people sleep well at night knowing that those in Parliament don't hold the ultimate power to decide their lives. As that power lies with the monarch and as long as the monarch appear fair and just I don't think they'll ever pay much attention to what happens in there. It doesn't help that parliament is made of public school educated people who most likely attended Oxbridge and appear out of touch with the realities of the average person.

[asylumseeker]

... the monarch won't act unilaterally.

[congo]

Ofcourse not but they don't know that. She is the ultimate fairy godmother. I am actually amazed that no serious debate has taken place regarding the establishment of a republic state. I don' think they know who they are as a people without a royal family. What does that nation hold dear and what are its core values and beliefs? Everything centres around that family.

[asylumseeker]

So ... PMQs in T&T ... how yuh feel about that?

[Tiresais]

Erm no, the Queen is not - we've talked about this before... She is De Jure head of state, but not De Facto (which rests with the Prime Minister). The Queen has no De Facto unilateral power, and her rights are severely limited under the Constitutional Monarchy and Parliamentary systems. She acts as an affable face for our diplomatic actions and a boost to our tourism, but there's a strong socio-cultural expectation that she would stay out of politics - she doesn't comment on politics (a position her son has not always honoured or respected, which has resulted in his criticism in the press).

The last hurrah of the Royal Family was during WWII, since then they have been a fringe group in the realm of British politics. They are popular simply because they harken back to a time when Britain was powerful, and the English (read: not Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland) public tend to be conservative in leaning.

[congo]

So ... PMQs in T&T ... how yuh feel about that?

Not to sure about it. I think like anything else here they'll find a way to circumvent the process and turn it into a laughing stock. The Parliamentarians in there are not exactly the smartest bunch and don't take their role seriously as it is.

@Tiresais....We know all of this but that doesn't mean that in the background they are wield for influence than we are led to believe.

[Tiresais]

You'd have to justify that Congo, seen little evidence of that in my (relatively short) lifetime. Of course they have influence, but I wouldn't say it's an important one tbh