Question about black referees.

[Flex]

I just realized that I have not seen a black referee in Europe yet?

CL, EPL, SPL, Seria A, La Liga.. etc?

Do they have any?

[Bakes]

Uriah Rennie used to officiate EPL games up until a couple seasons ago.  I wouldn't expect to see too many black officials in Europe given the relatively low numbers of blacks on the continent (including England)... so unlikely to see a black UCL ref anytime soon.  Great Britain and France have the largest population of European blacks, but not sure how many of them are in the general officiating pool to start with.

[davidephraim]

by the looks of the bleachers in most epl games, not sure black people even like football. I say that loosely because one can always claim economic and environmental issues deter; but by the math alone, there seem to be more indians in tnt watchin pfl than there are blacks in england watchin epl. proportionately speaking of course! And in trini, people would claim that indians doh back/watch/go football. reverse maths maybe!

[Football supporter]

by the looks of the bleachers in most epl games, not sure black people even like football. I say that loosely because one can always claim economic and environmental issues deter; but by the math alone, there seem to be more indians in tnt watchin pfl than there are blacks in england watchin epl. proportionately speaking of course! And in trini, people would claim that indians doh back/watch/go football. reverse maths maybe!

I'm not sure of the ratio of black vs white supporters compared with the population stats. But I would not say that football in England is a white man's sport. I would be interested to find the ratio of English black and white footballers at academy level. Certainly, from my experience with clubs like Leyton Orient, Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal, I would believe that the ratio is much higher than the population ratio.
So, perhaps it's an economic issue? It's definitely not environmental as most stadiums are in locations which are very ethnically mixed. (although some clubs such as Luton Town appear to be located in predominately Asian areas) 

[asylumseeker]

Economics!

Also agree with the notion that the football fan population ratio is more determinative than referencing the overall population.

Also, if one looks at say the NBA by comparison ... representation by race among spectators vis-a-vis representation by race among officials, one would note there's dissonance.

It's clear that the # of non-white coaches and managers in football is not fairly representative of the number of non-white players. Similarly, the refereeing context is not representative of the non-white fan base (players included). In fact, former elite players have expressed that the timeline for becoming an elite referee is too long after the end of one's career ... so that players with a genuine preference for reffing over coaching don't stand a chance.

[dtool]

Any black refs in the MLS?

[Football supporter]

I have never understood the desire to become a ref. After alll, you rarely get thanked, the pay is poor and the pressure to "be right" is immense, when usually, "being right" will still receive criticism from 50% of the participants.

So, to be in a minority situation and do the job must be uninviting to many.

Globally, there are never enough quality officials of any race, maybe that's why?

[asylumseeker]

Any black refs in the MLS?

In answering, I'm not going to distinguish between refs and assistants because these guys are in the same business/in line for the same business.

The converse question is what's the representation of black refs officiating youth games in England. In the US, it's not uncommon to see black, arab, and latino refs or assistants at youth games. On the college scene, the diversity is perhaps less overtly notable.

However, if refs don't start in the lower ranks of the game, they can't, and won't, rise to the higher echelons of the game.

In the MLS, yuh have Ismail Elfath, Younes Marrakchi, Baboucarr Jallow, Joe Fletcher and a host of latino officials. 

On the US front, in terms of representation of officials by race compared to fan and player participation in the game, latinos are the group most representative of parity or something tending to parity.

At the end of the day, who seriously thinks about becoming a ref and how?

I know parents who encourage their children to do it ... to earn $ and learn how to exercise discretion and authority. For the most part, kids take their role seriously ... what they lack at times is doing so consistently for long periods of time. I've had to pull a couple up by reminding them that the game means eveything to a 12 year old, so they shouldn't take a laissez-faire attitude because "ah well what does it matter" to the young player. Nevertheless, the thing is ... by these 16 and 17 year olds etc. getting this experience at a young age, it sets them on a path for pursuing it up the ranks.

This is far removed from how we used to choose refs when I was in school ... being the ref was probably about as "glorified" as being the keeper.

[davidephraim]

I think football is a whiteman's sport that, like basketball, feature a heck of a lot of black players. More than likely, being a whiteman's sport, whitemen will be the officials. And what of black refs? Well if a black person breaks past the "pay poor - pressure to be right and you're seldom thanked" bit, then the only other barrier would be that, that individual would have to be twice as good as those around him. (Ask Olivia Pope daddy) Now, If they can break past even this barrier, then, I present to you - Black refs.

Sure wish black people did with religion, what they've done with other forms of white-men sports' - Abstain.  If yuh not playing then watch it from home. Players get paid. Fans pay. At least, in yuh flat, yuh dont have to be afflicted or degraded, whenever some white-guy gets upset and feels like saying something mean - and to who but the usual suspects> Best people to pick on - we just go home and pray about it!

Thank god for places like Trinidad where I been watching football with my white friends forever and when we cuss, we cuss together. Blacks, Indians & whites alike. Hengland can take a page out of TnT's book. Even in the grand stand, we could feel just fine.

If yuh could pull de smallie next to yuh in de 4th row might be more along the lines of my headaches even if is TnT playing Hengland. We've only been at it for 50 years and for that we've done dam good.(thanks to those before us, who fought to make equality at least a fleeting illusion). Hengland been at it for quite a bit longer i'd say and English blacks still dont be up in de bleachers. My opinions only!

[Tiresais]

I think football is a whiteman's sport that, like basketball, feature a heck of a lot of black players. More than likely, being a whiteman's sport, whitemen will be the officials. And what of black refs? Well if a black person breaks past the "pay poor - pressure to be right and you're seldom thanked" bit, then the only other barrier would be that, that individual would have to be twice as good as those around him. (Ask Olivia Pope daddy) Now, If they can break past even this barrier, then, I present to you - Black refs.

Sure wish black people did with religion, what they've done with other forms of white-men sports' - Abstain.  If yuh not playing then watch it from home. Players get paid. Fans pay. At least, in yuh flat, yuh dont have to be afflicted or degraded, whenever some white-guy gets upset and feels like saying something mean - and to who but the usual suspects> Best people to pick on - we just go home and pray about it!

Thank god for places like Trinidad where I been watching football with my white friends forever and when we cuss, we cuss together. Blacks, Indians & whites alike. Hengland can take a page out of TnT's book. Even in the grand stand, we could feel just fine.

If yuh could pull de smallie next to yuh in de 4th row might be more along the lines of my headaches even if is TnT playing Hengland. We've only been at it for 50 years and for that we've done dam good.(thanks to those before us, who fought to make equality at least a fleeting illusion). Hengland been at it for quite a bit longer i'd say and English blacks still dont be up in de bleachers. My opinions only!

Disagree whole-heartedly as an English football fan - Blacks and whites watch the games together at Charlton and everywhere else I've been (even Millwall has black fans) and I can tell you now 75% of the fans I know were gutted to have lost Chrissy Powell. Afro-British players are well represented at the player level, but there are still concerns in terms of coaching and referees - the loss of Uriah Rennie means it's a white-man's position entirely at the EPL level. The issues between coaching and referees are related imo, and there are some strange class issues in the English game (upper and middle classes are disproportionately absent in the game and this has knock-ons for coaching and referees more broadly).

[Football supporter]

I would never describe football as a white man's sport. Yes, there should be more black coaches and officials in the U.K, but it's not dues to any glass ceiling on the playing field. In fact, in my day, there was a kind of reverse  racism. If we came up against a team with a black boy in it, we automatically thought he would be their best player (I guess that was the Brazilian effect).

Now, cricket and rugby, I believe, are still thought of as a white man sport in England, New Zealand, Australia and perhaps South Africa.

[davidephraim]

I've hijacked the thread enough.

I'll say this, places like millwall and others are leading the way in ensuring that, someday, at some point, someones will buss tru. I believe there is a ceiling but that didnt stop Gabby, Jordan, Tiger, Williams sisters.

Who wants to be a referee anyway! But anyone that wants, (on the books)has every chance too, if they have what it takes.

I will admit this to be true!

[Jack Horner]

Once you have an English accent you can get a job quite easily in Trinidad.

In England its reverse.

I hope to see more brothers out there doing some good.

When Jack tried to get a brother on the FIFA books, they eliminated him.

Blatter and his French compatriot making millions of dirty money and wasting it on Europeans.

Look at the the CFU cup league, they never get help and they compete at the international level.

Blame Jack, but he tried to help his people.

Kevin Harrison got a job because of his accent.

 

Sancho is not a real rasta, he is a uncle Bob.

At least Stuart Charles hiring his own people as coaches, Elijah Joseph and Earl Jean and no other Trinis on W Connection Senior team staff.

[Football supporter]

Once you have an English accent you can get a job quite easily in Trinidad.

In England its reverse.

I hope to see more brothers out there doing some good.

When Jack tried to get a brother on the FIFA books, they eliminated him.

Blatter and his French compatriot making millions of dirty money and wasting it on Europeans.

Look at the the CFU cup league, they never get help and they compete at the international level.

Blame Jack, but he tried to help his people.

Kevin Harrison got a job because of his accent.

 

Sancho is not a real rasta, he is a uncle Bob.

At least Stuart Charles hiring his own people as coaches, Elijah Joseph and Earl Jean and no other Trinis on W Connection Senior team staff.

Once you have an English accent you can get a job quite easily in Trinidad.

In England its reverse.

So, in England, if you have an English accent, you can't get a job? 

That's the trouble with people of little knowledge trying to stir up racism, you make no sense. Hundreds of thousands of black people born in the UK have British accents. You can argue that skin colour may be the reason, but not accent.
As for me getting a job because of my accent, you think Sancho had never heard me speak before he invited me to T&T?

[Tiresais]

When Jack tried to get a brother on the FIFA books, they eliminated him.

What were his qualifications exactly? Jack Warner's name had clearly been through the mud given persistent allegations of corruption to his name, so it might have been Jack's recommendation and/or name that did it in for him.