April 04, 2020, 06:26:29 PM

Author Topic: Current TTFA "less resourceful and transparent" than Camps/Groden TTFF- Wired868  (Read 3313 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Fair or foul?

Are Warrior women’s woes a reflection of present TTFA leadership?
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868.com)


The Trinidad and Tobago national women’s football team represented the country’s best chance to qualify for a FIFA senior tournament since the men’s Germany 2006 World Cup. Today, it arguably represents something else entirely.

Over the past 24 hours, the national women left for Houston in a fashion that is becoming too common for local representatives; one batch of players left on July 29; and the second on July 30.

The women are over two weeks late for a pre-Caribbean Cup camp that was due to commence on July 10. And, during that period, they were prepared by a coach, Marlon Charles, that Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) general secretary Sheldon Phillips sacked just over three weeks ago.

The 2014 Caribbean Cup kicks off on August 19 in Trinidad.

“The most significant upgrade to the (women’s) program will come in the form of changing the team’s technical staff,” stated a TTFA release, on 5 July 2014. “After one month of program review, concerns raised by players about the direction of the coaching and program, and under the recommendations of a newly installed Technical Development Committee Chairman, the TTFA has decided to relieve Marlon Charles of his present position.”

Charles, who worked without of salary or stipend for the past two years, voiced concern that the TTFA supposedly went behind his back to hire American Randy Waldrum as his boss and plot the preparation of the squad. Phillips’ response was to publicly humiliate Charles with the suggestion that even his players did not want him.

The TTFA’s subsequent failure to raise funds for the team’s trip to Houston in a timely fashion saw Charles, who was re-hired as assistant coach, again take charge as the women marked time before jetting off to prepare for a Trinidad tournament in Texas; so as to spare Waldrum the inconvenience of leaving his homeland for two months.

And this is how the TTFA prepares a team that, according to its own release, “is facing its most promising chance to qualify for the Women’s World Cup, which will be held in Canada in August 2015.”

Such treatment is not limited to the ladies or the coaches who Phillips does not fancy either.

On June 21, the TTFA issued a release about an August camp for the “Soca Warriors” that caught head coach Stephen Hart by surprise since, despite his requests for one, he was unaware than any had been scheduled.

Phillips’ release followed a Wired868 article which pointed out that the Warrior players and coaches were still owed per diems from their recent South America tour and match fees from a friendly international against Iran on 8 June.

More than a month later, the men’s camp never materialised, the Warriors still have not been paid, the national youth teams are limping along without funding and the TTFA’s office staff has gone three months without pay.

TTFA president Raymond Tim Kee, who is also the Port of Spain mayor and PNM treasurer, has not responded to calls from Wired868 or made any public pronouncement on the calamitous state of the local game.

Phillips is more available to the media although some of his statements have, arguably, been bizarre.

Last Friday, Phillips gave a list of the current TTFA leadership’s 50 accomplishments to Soca Warriors Online (SWO) site manager Inshan “Flex” Mohammed which included: the settlement of the 2006 World Cup bonus dispute, an improved relationship with government, GISL television rights deal, aversion of FIFA normalisation committee and his own hiring.

In fact, the World Cup bonus dispute remains active, the TTFA’s relationship with Government has not translated into a budget for football while no figures were ever given for a GISL deal.

The normalisation committee he referred to was initially proposed to FIFA by a group that included his father, Lincoln Phillips, Tim Kee and himself; but the notion evaporated when Tim Kee found another avenue to power.

Does Phillips want credit for avoiding his own attempt to take over the local game?

In the accompanying SWO Q&A segment, forumite, Bakes, asked: “What exactly is the TTFA’s official position on getting to the bottom of the missing 2006 World Cup monies, said to be to the tune of $200 million?”

Phillips gave the following answer:

“Our official position is that the use of litigation as a vehicle to answer questions pertaining to the whereabouts of the alleged figures being cited is not a prudent strategy because of expense, time, questionable outcome, and ability to collect if successful. You can look no further than the 2006 players’ own experience in that they were engaged in litigation with the then TTFF for over 8 years with little to nothing to show until President Tim Kee voluntarily entered into discussions to settle the case upon his election to office.

“Keeping in mind that the basis of the player case was a breach of contract claim. In matters involving alleged fraud or misappropriation of state funds, the burden of proof is substantially higher and would require an even greater commitment of time, money, and resources; all of which would be better placed towards developing football.

“In our view, utilizing government agencies to raise questions specifically pertaining to the use of state funds is the more prudent path to take. We have met with President (Anthony) Carmona to discuss the matter and are reviewing several options.

“Soon after our meeting with His Excellency, President Tim Kee made himself available for an interview with the Integrity Commission whose interest in the handling of state funds has been piqued by our inquiry. However, there is one thing we won’t indulge and that is the joining of what I call the pitchfork and torches brigade.

“The pursuit of the basic question; ‘Where and how was the state money received between 2004-2006 spent?’ must be done in an unemotional and detached manner where inquiries and actions are based on the availability of authenticated evidence.

“What is currently circulating is well documented and persuasive but yet to be proven in a court of law or by government investigation.”

Phillips long-winded response either ignores or makes a mockery of the TTFA’s High Court depositions that all 2006 World Cup revenue was banked or re-routed to the accounts of its former special advisor, Jack Warner.

And he failed to mention that Tim Kee failed to act on offers from the 2006 World Cup players to help in the recovery of the missing millions.

More to the point, the questionable list of successes could not have gone down well with the players, coaches and administrators who are struggling through this nightmarish period.

Tim Kee promised to steer football clear of its financial woes and public distrust. Instead, debts climbed while coaches like Anton Corneal, Leonson Lewis and Jamaal Shabazz resigned, Dutchman Leo Beenhakker rescinded his vow to accept a post and there was public outrage over the TTFA’s horribly mismanaged fund-raiser for since deceased World Cup youth footballer, Akeem Adams.

Phillips’ recent self-imposed deadline for the appointment of a new TTFA technical director came and went on 15 July 2014; local football has operated without a TD for four months now.

The mantra of Tim Kee and Phillips is that local football is saddled with debts from the incompetent past regime but is now pushing into the glorious sunlight through their inspired leadership.

The reality is the current TTFA leadership has actually proven to be less resourceful and transparent than its immediate predecessors.

Former TTFF president Lennox Watson and general secretary Richard Groden, through Anthony Harford’s All Sport Promotions, managed to raise the funds to keep the “Warriors” on course to the 2013 CONCACAF Gold Cup, despite being openly at loggerheads with Sport Minister Anil Roberts and then Minister of Works, Warner.

Harford sent income and expenditure balance sheets to the media within a week of every national game during his two-year stint with the TTFA.

In two years, Tim Kee and Phillips have not revealed the income and expenditure for any of the seven exhibition matches during their tenure; even though Phillips brazenly listed football matches first among revenue streams available to the TTFA.

Even the 2013 OSN Cup in Saudi Arabia, which carried a cash prize, was not followed by a TTFA press release or internal statement to suggest what the Warriors earned financially for its appearance in Riyadh.

Typical of Phillips, he listed the country’s qualification for the 2013 Gold Cup as an accomplishment for the present executive although the Gold Cup campaign waged for three months under Watson and for 11 days under Tim Kee.

And the TTFA’s talk of splitting from the Warner-led administration sounds hollower than ever these days.

Not just because Tim Kee spent nearly two decades as vice-president under the disgraced former FIFA vice-president and refuses to call him to account for hundreds of millions in missing revenue; but because the TTFA just promoted Warner’s most loyal servant left in local football, Eastern Football Association (EFA) general secretary Neville Ferguson, to run the Super League competition, which is the highest level of domestic football under its watch.

Most recently, the shambolic preparation of the senior women’s team raises more questions about the capability of the TTFA’s chiefs.

Last September, Charles led the under-17 women’s team to the Caribbean title, which, of course, was listed among Phillips’ accomplishments. But, with a senior World Cup spot within striking distance, Phillips decided to get more involved in the women’s programme.

Unsurprisingly, Phillips also listed Waldrum’s hiring as an accomplishment although the coach is yet to face a competitive fixture with the team. Most of the women wore Adidas jackets for their departure as there was not enough Joma gear to go around.

The Joma deal, of course, is another TTFA accomplishment.

The general secretary would surely like to retain his post long enough to see if his national women’s team gamble pays off. Whether local football can afford another year of Phillips and Tim Kee is another matter entirely.



Editor’s Note: Click HERE to read Sheldon Phillips’ 50 self-proclaimed accomplishments.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 09:22:00 AM by Flex »

Offline Tiresais

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Seems fair to me, Whilst appreciative of Sheldon Phillips taking the time to answer our questions, possibly I didn't give it the critical eye (or lacked the knowledge) it needed.

Offline Controversial

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cash is king... ;)

the question I would ask is how would a private entity assume power of the ttfa if they declare and walk away?

Offline Bakes

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Seems fair to me, Whilst appreciative of Sheldon Phillips taking the time to answer our questions, possibly I didn't give it the critical eye (or lacked the knowledge) it needed.

...or possibly you're not giving a critical enough eye to the past administration, or lack the knowledge to know that any comparison to the Groden/Camps/Warner regime is ridiculous.

Offline Sando

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Typical of Phillips, he listed the country’s qualification for the 2013 Gold Cup as an accomplishment for the present executive although the Gold Cup campaign waged for three months under Watson and for 11 days under Tim Kee.

And the TTFA’s talk of splitting from the Warner-led administration sounds hollower than ever these days.

Not just because Tim Kee spent nearly two decades as vice-president under the disgraced former FIFA vice-president and refuses to call him to account for hundreds of millions in missing revenue; but because the TTFA just promoted Warner’s most loyal servant left in local football, Eastern Football Association (EFA) general secretary Neville Ferguson, to run the Super League competition, which is the highest level of domestic football under its watch.

Good point out Lasana. Did not know Neville Ferguson worked for Warner too.

Seems we have a lot of Warner's old boys still here. No wonder nothing could run smoothly, we have the same old folks in different positions.

Anyone know more on this Neville Ferguson guy?

How did he get this job? The TTFA had an advertisment for TD why wasn't this post advertised as well?

And he is now running the super league, how come we do not know when the next set of games are and in advance so we can attend if we choose?

How can the crowd improve and sponsors come on board when the league is not fully advestised?

What are the rules of the league?

What are the prize money.

What is the entry fee.

How many teams are there.

Do they carry highlights?

Where can I get info on Super League teams, like their address, phones numbers, home based, players rosters.

Etc etc.

PS: So its not 50 accomplishments by the new TTFA.  :devil:

« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:27:15 AM by Sando »

Offline Tiresais

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Seems fair to me, Whilst appreciative of Sheldon Phillips taking the time to answer our questions, possibly I didn't give it the critical eye (or lacked the knowledge) it needed.

...or possibly you're not giving a critical enough eye to the past administration, or lack the knowledge to know that any comparison to the Groden/Camps/Warner regime is ridiculous.

Hah I think my criticism of the previous regime is clear enough. Comparisons are inevitable - they're the same/successor organisation so not comparing them would be ridiculous, the question is whether any drawn parallels are valid.

Offline Bakes

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Hah I think my criticism of the previous regime is clear enough. Comparisons are inevitable - they're the same/successor organisation so not comparing them would be ridiculous, the question is whether any drawn parallels are valid.

Since the plain meaning of my comment was lost on you... the attempted parallels are so invalid as to make the mere effort itself ridiculous.

Offline Jack Horner

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Can't believe that you guys are still blaming Jack Warner for all of this.

Jack Warner will rise again and the world will beg him him to return and he will say "NO".............

Offline Tiresais

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Can't believe that you guys are still blaming Jack Warner for all of this.

He can always give back the money he stole, if he wants a measure of absolution. He still presided over the death of local football though.

Offline Tiresais

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Hah I think my criticism of the previous regime is clear enough. Comparisons are inevitable - they're the same/successor organisation so not comparing them would be ridiculous, the question is whether any drawn parallels are valid.

Since the plain meaning of my comment was lost on you... the attempted parallels are so invalid as to make the mere effort itself ridiculous.

I disagree - some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner, they have adopted a combative stance with the Soca Warriors claiming their money back, payments have been delayed and camps have been messed around, whilst The Women's team loses their manager than resigns him as an assistant.

They're a step above Warner, lets not get it twisted, but lets not pretend there aren't issues.

Offline Bakes

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I disagree - some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner, they have adopted a combative stance with the Soca Warriors claiming their money back, payments have been delayed and camps have been messed around, whilst The Women's team loses their manager than resigns him as an assistant.

They're a step above Warner, lets not get it twisted, but lets not pretend there aren't issues.

Do you have comprehension problems... or are you deliberately being obtuse?  No one has denied that there are "issues", the question is whether the current "issues" arise to the level that we saw under the previous administration.  Nobody in their right mind or with a clear understanding of the comparative issues would say that they are equal, let alone worse now.  Not surprisingly then that you see "parallels".

I'm also curious as to who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
The "combative stance" talk is nonsense... since unsolicited they extended a laurel to the 06 players in attempt to resolve the dispute.  The only problem is that they haven't been able to follow up with regular payments.  The only "combative" exchanges came after Sancho took to the media to threaten them with a winding down petition.

Offline Football supporter

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I disagree - some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner, they have adopted a combative stance with the Soca Warriors claiming their money back, payments have been delayed and camps have been messed around, whilst The Women's team loses their manager than resigns him as an assistant.

They're a step above Warner, lets not get it twisted, but lets not pretend there aren't issues.

Do you have comprehension problems... or are you deliberately being obtuse?  No one has denied that there are "issues", the question is whether the current "issues" arise to the level that we saw under the previous administration.  Nobody in their right mind or with a clear understanding of the comparative issues would say that they are equal, let alone worse now.  Not surprisingly then that you see "parallels".

I'm also curious as to who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
The "combative stance" talk is nonsense... since unsolicited they extended a laurel to the 06 players in attempt to resolve the dispute.  The only problem is that they haven't been able to follow up with regular payments.  The only "combative" exchanges came after Sancho the 13 members of the 2006 world cup squad took to the media to threaten them with a winding down petition.

who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
- Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples. Of course, they may not have any links at all now, but I guess some people may still need convincing. The main concern seems to be that there were people who worked with the last administration who are still there now. Is this because they are the best people for the job or are there other reasons?

I would offer that we need need people with experience in working for a football association, with the necessary networks in place. Just like when a party loses an election and a new party forms a government. The civil servants remain in place, as they actually get the work done.

It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water, however, it is natural for people to be concerned that the old practices may continue in the new regime.

Offline Bakes

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who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
- Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples. Of course, they may not have any links at all now, but I guess some people may still need convincing. The main concern seems to be that there were people who worked with the last administration who are still there now. Is this because they are the best people for the job or are there other reasons?

I would offer that we need need people with experience in working for a football association, with the necessary networks in place. Just like when a party loses an election and a new party forms a government. The civil servants remain in place, as they actually get the work done.

It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water, however, it is natural for people to be concerned that the old practices may continue in the new regime.

Fuentes is not in any decision-making position so I'm not sure how much that counts.  As much as I think that he's crap, it would have been unfair to fire him just for his association with Warner.  As for Tim Kee, I'm not sure how strong his relationship with Jack was before, but whatever relationship there was, that ended over 4 years ago when he was ousted for opposing Jack.  It's more than a stretch to categorize his ties with Jack as being "strong."  I have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are... other than what's written in the article.  Who else.. the janitors and receptionists?

Offline elan

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Name 3 things the new TTFA have been transparent about?

Name 3 ways in which the new TTFA have been resourceful?
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Bakes

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Name 3 things the new TTFA have been transparent about?

1. $5 million TTD cash from FIFA disclosed
2. The recruitment process for the TD position
3. ---

Quote
Name 3 ways in which the new TTFA have been resourceful?
1. Getting a new shirt sponsor and negotiating a 5-year deal despite the fact that the National program has been utter crap for most of the past 8 years.
2. Arranging top-flight international friendlies despite the same challenges.
3. Hosting the Caribbean Cup in a couple months, despite all of the negativity surrounding TnT football the past several years.  It should be a nice showcase for the TTFA, for local football, for the country and should bring some much needed revenue.

Offline Football supporter

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who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
- Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples. Of course, they may not have any links at all now, but I guess some people may still need convincing. The main concern seems to be that there were people who worked with the last administration who are still there now. Is this because they are the best people for the job or are there other reasons?

I would offer that we need need people with experience in working for a football association, with the necessary networks in place. Just like when a party loses an election and a new party forms a government. The civil servants remain in place, as they actually get the work done.

It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water, however, it is natural for people to be concerned that the old practices may continue in the new regime.

Fuentes is not in any decision-making position so I'm not sure how much that counts.  As much as I think that he's crap, it would have been unfair to fire him just for his association with Warner.  As for Tim Kee, I'm not sure how strong his relationship with Jack was before, but whatever relationship there was, that ended over 4 years ago when he was ousted for opposing Jack.  It's more than a stretch to categorize his ties with Jack as being "strong."  I have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are... other than what's written in the article.  Who else.. the janitors and receptionists?

Sorry, Bakes. Please explain the "decision making" members who you are referring to, as obviously some of us were thinking of people like the TTFA President, the TTFA Media & Communications officer and Mr Ferguson who is in charge of TTFA's flagship league and has many positions of responsibility within TTFF (and, I believe, CFU and possibly even CONCACAF). By the way, not sure about the "janitors and receptionists", but several of the administration staff, including Sharon O'Brien were longstanding employees with TTFF, but, like you, I don't see them as key decision makers. Not sure who the janitor is now, but likewise.

As far as Fuentes being "crap", I feel he's done a fair job. I have criticised him at times, but he's generally not too bad, especially now he would have limited resources, and, apparently isn't being paid.

Offline Bakes

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who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
- Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples. Of course, they may not have any links at all now, but I guess some people may still need convincing. The main concern seems to be that there were people who worked with the last administration who are still there now. Is this because they are the best people for the job or are there other reasons?

I would offer that we need need people with experience in working for a football association, with the necessary networks in place. Just like when a party loses an election and a new party forms a government. The civil servants remain in place, as they actually get the work done.

It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water, however, it is natural for people to be concerned that the old practices may continue in the new regime.

Fuentes is not in any decision-making position so I'm not sure how much that counts.  As much as I think that he's crap, it would have been unfair to fire him just for his association with Warner.  As for Tim Kee, I'm not sure how strong his relationship with Jack was before, but whatever relationship there was, that ended over 4 years ago when he was ousted for opposing Jack.  It's more than a stretch to categorize his ties with Jack as being "strong."  I have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are... other than what's written in the article.  Who else.. the janitors and receptionists?

Sorry, Bakes. Please explain the "decision making" members who you are referring to, as obviously some of us were thinking of people like the TTFA President, the TTFA Media & Communications officer and Mr Ferguson who is in charge of TTFA's flagship league and has many positions of responsibility within TTFF (and, I believe, CFU and possibly even CONCACAF). By the way, not sure about the "janitors and receptionists", but several of the administration staff, including Sharon O'Brien were longstanding employees with TTFF, but, like you, I don't see them as key decision makers. Not sure who the janitor is now, but likewise.

As far as Fuentes being "crap", I feel he's done a fair job. I have criticised him at times, but he's generally not too bad, especially now he would have limited resources, and, apparently isn't being paid.

Which decision making members did I refer to?

Offline Football supporter

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who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner?
- Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples. Of course, they may not have any links at all now, but I guess some people may still need convincing. The main concern seems to be that there were people who worked with the last administration who are still there now. Is this because they are the best people for the job or are there other reasons?

I would offer that we need need people with experience in working for a football association, with the necessary networks in place. Just like when a party loses an election and a new party forms a government. The civil servants remain in place, as they actually get the work done.

It makes no sense to throw the baby out with the bath water, however, it is natural for people to be concerned that the old practices may continue in the new regime.

Fuentes is not in any decision-making position so I'm not sure how much that counts.  As much as I think that he's crap, it would have been unfair to fire him just for his association with Warner.  As for Tim Kee, I'm not sure how strong his relationship with Jack was before, but whatever relationship there was, that ended over 4 years ago when he was ousted for opposing Jack.  It's more than a stretch to categorize his ties with Jack as being "strong."  I have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are... other than what's written in the article.  Who else.. the janitors and receptionists?

Sorry, Bakes. Please explain the "decision making" members who you are referring to, as obviously some of us were thinking of people like the TTFA President, the TTFA Media & Communications officer and Mr Ferguson who is in charge of TTFA's flagship league and has many positions of responsibility within TTFF (and, I believe, CFU and possibly even CONCACAF). By the way, not sure about the "janitors and receptionists", but several of the administration staff, including Sharon O'Brien were longstanding employees with TTFF, but, like you, I don't see them as key decision makers. Not sure who the janitor is now, but likewise.

As far as Fuentes being "crap", I feel he's done a fair job. I have criticised him at times, but he's generally not too bad, especially now he would have limited resources, and, apparently isn't being paid.

Which decision making members did I refer to?

Well you asked the question "which members" and was answered. You then responded by pointing out that Fuentes is not a decision maker. You're "not sure" about how strong Tim-Kee's relationship with Jack was/is. You "have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are" despite the fact that Ferguson has been a key figure in football administration for years (probably decades) including being a match commissioner at a Gold Cup final and his rise to prominence coincided with Jacks. You then sarcastically asked about receptionists and janitors.

So, I imagine that somewhere between the President and the janitor, but discounting experienced professionals such as Ferguson and non decision makers such as Fuentes, there are "members" with decision making responsibilities who you appear to be inferring have no "strong links to Warner". I am merely inquiring as to whom you are referring.

   

Offline Bakes

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Well you asked the question "which members" and was answered. You then responded by pointing out that Fuentes is not a decision maker. You're "not sure" about how strong Tim-Kee's relationship with Jack was/is. You "have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are" despite the fact that Ferguson has been a key figure in football administration for years (probably decades) including being a match commissioner at a Gold Cup final and his rise to prominence coincided with Jacks. You then sarcastically asked about receptionists and janitors.

So, I imagine that somewhere between the President and the janitor, but discounting experienced professionals such as Ferguson and non decision makers such as Fuentes, there are "members" with decision making responsibilities who you appear to be inferring have no "strong links to Warner". I am merely inquiring as to whom you are referring.

   

Let's do this the paint-by-numbers way, maybe that would help.  The issue is the transparency and resourcefulness of the TTFA.  Everyone within an organization can be both transparent and resourceful, from chief to cook.  However, in this context we are talking about institutional transparency and resourcefulness.  Following along so far?  Such direction (for transparency and resourcefulness) comes from decision-makers within the organization, not from the day laborers who follow their directives.  Good.

The statement was made that "some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner."  And again, we are not talking about the average employee within the TTFA, who may or may not have "strong" links to Jack, we are talking about people in positions of power who might affect and effect "transparency and resourcefulness." 

So the question was asked who are these members with strong ties to Jack.  You mentioned Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson and laughably, Shaun Fuentes.  Tim-Kee had a very public break with Jack Warner over four years ago, because of personal and professional disagreements.  I euphemistically stated that I'm "not sure" how strong their ties would be and that was apparently the source of confusion for you, so let me be clearer... it's ridiculous to suggest that their relationship or ties would continue to be "strong".  If you want to make an argument otherwise then feel free to go ahead.

Shaun Fuentes is not a decision-maker.  No PR person, communications officer or whatever his title is today is a "decision-maker", they don't make decisions, they disseminate information.  Accordingly they take their directives from someone higher up, who tells them what message to release into the public domain.  Shaun Fuentes was Warner's lap dog, or maybe he slept at his feet, since Camps was in Jack's lap.  Under Tim Kee he may have slightly more autonomy, but that hardly makes him a decision maker w/in the TTFA, or someone with influence over resourcefulness and transparency.

I am not familiar with Neville Ferguson, and frankly lady, thou dost protest too much methinks.  Me saying that I don't know him and how strong his ties are to Jack is actually a concession that he may indeed be someone with "strong" ties... so how did I "discount" him?  You really need to work on that pesky reading comprehension thing.  I'm similarly not familiar with Sharon O'Brien.  How does she influence transparency and resourcefulness of the TTFA?

Offline Football supporter

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Well you asked the question "which members" and was answered. You then responded by pointing out that Fuentes is not a decision maker. You're "not sure" about how strong Tim-Kee's relationship with Jack was/is. You "have no idea who Ferguson is or what his ties to Jack are" despite the fact that Ferguson has been a key figure in football administration for years (probably decades) including being a match commissioner at a Gold Cup final and his rise to prominence coincided with Jacks. You then sarcastically asked about receptionists and janitors.

So, I imagine that somewhere between the President and the janitor, but discounting experienced professionals such as Ferguson and non decision makers such as Fuentes, there are "members" with decision making responsibilities who you appear to be inferring have no "strong links to Warner". I am merely inquiring as to whom you are referring.

   

Let's do this the paint-by-numbers way, maybe that would help.  The issue is the transparency and resourcefulness of the TTFA.  Everyone within an organization can be both transparent and resourceful, from chief to cook.  However, in this context we are talking about institutional transparency and resourcefulness.  Following along so far?  Such direction (for transparency and resourcefulness) comes from decision-makers within the organization, not from the day laborers who follow their directives.  Good.

The statement was made that "some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner."  And again, we are not talking about the average employee within the TTFA, who may or may not have "strong" links to Jack, we are talking about people in positions of power who might affect and effect "transparency and resourcefulness." 

So the question was asked who are these members with strong ties to Jack.  You mentioned Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson and laughably, Shaun Fuentes.  Tim-Kee had a very public break with Jack Warner over four years ago, because of personal and professional disagreements.  I euphemistically stated that I'm "not sure" how strong their ties would be and that was apparently the source of confusion for you, so let me be clearer... it's ridiculous to suggest that their relationship or ties would continue to be "strong".  If you want to make an argument otherwise then feel free to go ahead.

Shaun Fuentes is not a decision-maker.  No PR person, communications officer or whatever his title is today is a "decision-maker", they don't make decisions, they disseminate information.  Accordingly they take their directives from someone higher up, who tells them what message to release into the public domain.  Shaun Fuentes was Warner's lap dog, or maybe he slept at his feet, since Camps was in Jack's lap.  Under Tim Kee he may have slightly more autonomy, but that hardly makes him a decision maker w/in the TTFA, or someone with influence over resourcefulness and transparency.

I am not familiar with Neville Ferguson, and frankly lady, thou dost protest too much methinks.  Me saying that I don't know him and how strong his ties are to Jack is actually a concession that he may indeed be someone with "strong" ties... so how did I "discount" him?  You really need to work on that pesky reading comprehension thing.  I'm similarly not familiar with Sharon O'Brien.  How does she influence transparency and resourcefulness of the TTFA?

OK, I'll play along.
As you put it, let's do this the paint-by-numbers way, maybe that would help.

Tiresais said: some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner,
You said : I'm also curious as to who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner
I said : Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples.

Now, pay attention, no one has mentioned decision makers or janitors until you did. You also pretend to believe that only the man with the word "boss" on his door makes policy, when this clearly wasn't the case with the TTFF, so it is feasible that it may possibly not be the case with TTFA (although I don't believe that)

Finally, I think you are the lady protesting, dear, I'm just furnishing information, non of which was anti TTFA, so I'm not sure why you're defending them so heartily. And you still haven't clued us in to the "decision makers" in "positions of power who might affect and effect "transparency and resourcefulness." that you keep referring to. 
 




Offline Bakes

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OK, I'll play along.
As you put it, let's do this the paint-by-numbers way, maybe that would help.

Tiresais said: some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner,
You said : I'm also curious as to who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner
I said : Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples.

Now, pay attention, no one has mentioned decision makers or janitors until you did. You also pretend to believe that only the man with the word "boss" on his door makes policy, when this clearly wasn't the case with the TTFF, so it is feasible that it may possibly not be the case with TTFA (although I don't believe that)

Finally, I think you are the lady protesting, dear, I'm just furnishing information, non of which was anti TTFA, so I'm not sure why you're defending them so heartily. And you still haven't clued us in to the "decision makers" in "positions of power who might affect and effect "transparency and resourcefulness." that you keep referring to. 
 

1. You do a convincing job of being ignorant of the context of the discussion, which I've already attempted to spell out for you.  If we are talking about institutional resourcefulness and transparency we are talking about the leadership of the respective regimes.  No one had to mention "decision-makers" until you volunteered Shaun Fuentes' name because it was such a ridiculous assertion.  Prior to that it seemed evident to those already in the thread that we were talking about the respective hierarchies.  It might behoove you to focus more on and "pay attention" to what's being discussed before you decide to jump in.

2. You'e not furnishing anything, so don't get ahead of yourself.  Aside from contributing a bit more information about Ferguson, you offered Shaun Fuentes and Sharon O'Brien's names as current members of the TTFA who have/had strong ties to Jack Warner.  I am yet to "defend" the TTFA in my exchanges with you, rather I have countered the nonsensical offerings of the last two names.  Unlike you who run to defend Brent Sancho as though he's your alter ego... or worse, your man, I have no dog in this fight.

Offline Football supporter

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OK, I'll play along.
As you put it, let's do this the paint-by-numbers way, maybe that would help.

Tiresais said: some members of the current TTFA have strong links to Jack Warner,
You said : I'm also curious as to who are these "some members" of the current TTFA with strong links to Warner
I said : Raymond Tim-Kee, Neville Ferguson, Shaun Fuentes would be three examples.

Now, pay attention, no one has mentioned decision makers or janitors until you did. You also pretend to believe that only the man with the word "boss" on his door makes policy, when this clearly wasn't the case with the TTFF, so it is feasible that it may possibly not be the case with TTFA (although I don't believe that)

Finally, I think you are the lady protesting, dear, I'm just furnishing information, non of which was anti TTFA, so I'm not sure why you're defending them so heartily. And you still haven't clued us in to the "decision makers" in "positions of power who might affect and effect "transparency and resourcefulness." that you keep referring to. 
 

1. You do a convincing job of being ignorant of the context of the discussion, which I've already attempted to spell out for you.  If we are talking about institutional resourcefulness and transparency we are talking about the leadership of the respective regimes.  No one had to mention "decision-makers" until you volunteered Shaun Fuentes' name because it was such a ridiculous assertion.  Prior to that it seemed evident to those already in the thread that we were talking about the respective hierarchies.  It might behoove you to focus more on and "pay attention" to what's being discussed before you decide to jump in.

2. You'e not furnishing anything, so don't get ahead of yourself.  Aside from contributing a bit more information about Ferguson, you offered Shaun Fuentes and Sharon O'Brien's names as current members of the TTFA who have/had strong ties to Jack Warner.  I am yet to "defend" the TTFA in my exchanges with you, rather I have countered the nonsensical offerings of the last two names.  Unlike you who run to defend Brent Sancho as though he's your alter ego... or worse, your man, I have no dog in this fight.

Being ignorant, I just looked up the word in the dictionary and saw your photo.

 "I have no dog in this fight."  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Offline Bakes

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Being ignorant, I just looked up the word in the dictionary and saw your photo.

 "I have no dog in this fight."  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Did you come up with that all by yourself... or did your 10-year old classmates help you?

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People really seeing a parallel between the two?

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I think allyuh confusing 'have' with 'had'...go back to grammar school lol

Anyway give the new TTFF/TTFA a chance nah...but in the same breath I can say I don't really trust either Tim Kee or Sancho.
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Offline Bakes

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I think allyuh confusing 'have' with 'had'...go back to grammar school lol

Anyway give the new TTFF/TTFA a chance nah...but in the same breath I can say I don't really trust either Tim Kee or Sancho.


TTFF/TTFA lost the benefit of the doubt... so they just have to keep fighting to earn it back.  Some people see their renewed efforts as earnest, others see it as more of the same.  Until more time (and achievements) pass then that's likely how it will continue to be.


Scorpion... yuh see it? lol

Offline Tiresais

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I think allyuh confusing 'have' with 'had'...go back to grammar school lol

Anyway give the new TTFF/TTFA a chance nah...but in the same breath I can say I don't really trust either Tim Kee or Sancho.


TTFF/TTFA lost the benefit of the doubt... so they just have to keep fighting to earn it back.  Some people see their renewed efforts as earnest, others see it as more of the same.  Until more time (and achievements) pass then that's likely how it will continue to be.



Something we can all agree on?  :beermug:

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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I think allyuh confusing 'have' with 'had'...go back to grammar school lol

Anyway give the new TTFF/TTFA a chance nah...but in the same breath I can say I don't really trust either Tim Kee or Sancho.


TTFF/TTFA lost the benefit of the doubt... so they just have to keep fighting to earn it back.  Some people see their renewed efforts as earnest, others see it as more of the same.  Until more time (and achievements) pass then that's likely how it will continue to be.


Scorpion... yuh see it? lol

Everything under the past regime was shrouded in mystery and subterfuge.  Is only because here on the forum we were paying closer attention than most that we had clues and a fair understanding of many things that transpired.  I understand that RTK and JW were previously tight, but given their public falling out many moons ago I really can't see calling them strongly linked at this point.  I watching TTFA movements and to me it look like they are still paying for the evils of the past administration.  Thus the reason they are suffering so badly to draw in sponsors.  The stench of JW, Camps and Co. is still lingering and creating a very unhealthy atmosphere ruining anything that resembles forward progress.  TTFA doesn't have the weight to bribe nor twist anyone's arm into doing our team any favors and yet they appear to be doing more with much less than JW and the TTFF ever did.  Their efforts to handle to '06 players to me should be heavily commended especially since they sought permission from FIFA to use funds that should have otherwise been designated.  They really didn't have to engage in that considering everyone knows where the money actually went.  They seem to be as transparent as one can reasonably expect.  They are taking time to engage us here who are the true die hard fans.  And seem to be dilligently working to support Coach Hart as he continues to rebuild and mold our team into something formidable once again.  In my eyes the current administration is making positive moves despite the severe financial limitations they are under right now.  Anyone who sees different are simply determined to be ignorant IMO.