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Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 01:36:59 PM »
I wont be surprised if one or two of the COP MP's do not support this bill because of the proposal of the recall vote. This bill will kill COP and ILP future progression. In my opinion the COP leader Prakesh Ramadar sold out his party by heading the creation of this bill. Expect one or maybe two of the PP members from the COP party to vote against this bill in the spirit of their party survival. A lot of bacchanal to happen in the near future

Douglas and Seepersad-Bachan maybe. Prakash battling for survival here...his OWN survival.

Wha? Douglas gave a nice humble little speech about why it is important to stop the debate and seek more consultation from the public and in the end he voted for the bill

Offline Socapro

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2014, 03:23:05 PM »
I wont be surprised if one or two of the COP MP's do not support this bill because of the proposal of the recall vote. This bill will kill COP and ILP future progression. In my opinion the COP leader Prakesh Ramadar sold out his party by heading the creation of this bill. Expect one or maybe two of the PP members from the COP party to vote against this bill in the spirit of their party survival. A lot of bacchanal to happen in the near future

Douglas and Seepersad-Bachan maybe. Prakash battling for survival here...his OWN survival.

Wha? Douglas gave a nice humble little speech about why it is important to stop the debate and seek more consultation from the public and in the end he voted for the bill
I heard that he abstained. Did I hear wrong?
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline royal

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2014, 04:32:09 PM »
this constitutional ting has not strengthen democracy but has disenfranchise a people whose votes will not count. It is also a recipe for a coup d'état waiting to happen.   
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 04:36:31 PM by royal »

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2014, 08:05:10 PM »
I wont be surprised if one or two of the COP MP's do not support this bill because of the proposal of the recall vote. This bill will kill COP and ILP future progression. In my opinion the COP leader Prakesh Ramadar sold out his party by heading the creation of this bill. Expect one or maybe two of the PP members from the COP party to vote against this bill in the spirit of their party survival. A lot of bacchanal to happen in the near future


Douglas and Seepersad-Bachan maybe. Prakash battling for survival here...his OWN survival.

Wha? Douglas gave a nice humble little speech about why it is important to stop the debate and seek more consultation from the public and in the end he voted for the bill
I heard that he abstained. Did I hear wrong?

Nah dat was Rodger Samuel. Ah man who don't have de balls to make his decision public at least for the sake of his constituents
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 08:15:30 PM by Sando prince »

Offline MEP

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2014, 09:08:12 PM »
I would like to believe that change  sometimes comes about in order to improve upon what is currently in existence . I am not oppose to challenging the status quo simply because that is the way it has been does not always make it the right way. If. Change could reduce flaws and foster efficiency then why not?
 Now having said this,  I put forth a challenge that structural changes is merely cosmetic and could be ineffective if the same human practice  continues. Therefore I am proposing that there be  some constitutional. Hangers implemented for  which ever party that is victorious in an election .

Prior to appointing elected officials to ministries  or individuals to a public office:

Said individuals must possess  and have demonstrated expertise , competences in the area to which they will be appointed
Said individuals if they do possess degrees must substantiate that these are indeed legitimate
SId individuals must be  without any matters pending in any court of law or free from any unethical practices that may contradict with public office
Said individuals must have a strategic plan and or shared vision to be shared with the public prior to being elected
Parties must ensure that nominations criteria in leu but not limited to people who has a desire to serve but to do so with the best of the public interest and not with a partisan political view
any said individual with a racial prejudicial and or discriminatory   bias should be  barred from public office

Yes changes to structure may have some impact but in mu opinion elected parties government ought to carefully examine the manner in which ministers are given appointments.
you see that world you livin in padnah..it's a dangerous one

Offline MEP

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2014, 09:19:28 PM »
let me bring this up again... for those who say the man didn't have an agenda

Equitable Governance?

By anand - Posted on 22 November 2009

A sad consequence of the racial-based nature of our politics is the exclusion of the “other” major race from governance. “They” simply have no say in how the nation’s resources are distributed, and do not enjoy any of the influence that comes with high public office. They never seem to “fit the bill” for such appointments which are supposedly made on merit. This glaring absence at the top explains why people identified with political jargon such as “alienated,” “marginalised,” “ostracised” and “tolerated.” Political discrimination in our system carries a racial connotation and perception if the victim is of the “other” tribe.

Hard data to substantiate racial imbalances that can justify inferences of discrimination is very difficult to obtain, as racial statistics are not really kept. Richard Thomas has taken the trouble to compile some statistics about the ethnic composition of the upper echelons of state-owned companies, and it paints a frightening picture that shows that things have actually got worse when one compares the relevant data on this issue in the 1980 report prepared by the Centre for Ethnic Studies, UWI. I present this table as evidence of the political discrimination that is retarding the growth and development of our dear country.

Airports Authority: Out of 11, 2 (1 Ramesh Lutchmedial, director; and 2 Rosalind Chinnia-Ramadeen, deputy general manager, (Operations, Crown Point). Caribbean Airlines: Out of 8, 1 (1 Dr Shafeek Sultan-Khan, director). DFL Caribbean: Out of 13, 3 (1 Rodney Prasad, director; 2 Stephen Singh, director; and 3 Gilian Golah, senior manager (Corporate Executive Operations) and company secretary. E-TECK: Out of 12, 2 (1 Nesha Kochhar, vice-President (Property Management); and 2 Henry Kumar, general manager (ICT Project Implementation); maybe a 3rd (Eugene Tiah, director).

FCB: Out of 25, 6 (1 Govind Maharaj, director; 2 Inez B Sinanan, director; 3 Ramcharan Kalicharan, chief executive officer (CMMB); 4 Lionel Seunarine, asst GM (Commercial Banking); 5 Shiva Manraj, financial controller (Finance and Planning); and 6 Harjoon Heeralal, corporate manager (Group Corp Planning) Namdevco: Out of 6, 1 (1 Cintra Persad, director) National Flour Mills: Out of 7, 2 (1 Ganesh Sahadeo, chairman; and 2 Ross Alexander, director). National Gas Company: Out of 16, 4 (1 Lisle Ramyad, director; 2 Winston Lalla, director; 3 Rebecca Ramdhanie, vice-president (Finance and Information Management Group); and 4 Prakash Saith, president (National Energy Corporation)

These statistics provide irrefutable evidence about the exclusion of Indo-Trinis from state corporations. The figures are probably no different in the foreign service, security service and public service in general. The reverse is probably true when the UNC was in power. The pendulum swung from one corner to the next. Can we ever realise that elusive dream of equality and meritocracy? Something for the reformers of our constitution to think about.
By Anand Ramlogan

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2014, 11:27:04 PM »
MEP me eh know what world yuh talking about. I simply am commenting on the state of affairs as reported in the Daily news of TNT .  Have we reached the stage where public opinions are censored? Or do we have so called sympathizers  who are in here to refute and support  whatever is dictated to the masses?

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2014, 05:07:44 AM »
Well I was expecting better from Douglas......thought he would have shown the spine he claimed to have during the COP elections. Shamefully he's my MP.


It could be worse. My MP could have been Rodger Samuel. Disgraceful especially for a man of his stature.


So now it goes to the senate and all that is needed is for one senator on the Independent bench to vote with the government and it passes. It have a few Independent government senators so this still has a good chance of being a reality. Although I heard that in the event of a 15-15 tie...the Senate President would then have to cast a deciding vote and that vote must be to maintain the status quo..or no. Not sure how true...my research continuing.


Then it left up to the President to proclaim (I think?). Given that this is an amendment to an existing law....is full proclamation needed?

In any case....now is a good time to see what powers we think he has. No word on him yet for his perspective as a former legal practitioner on this amendment...or the manner which it was done.


In the event that this does become law...the very least I hope would happen is that those COP MP's that voted for it get spit out like the loathsome self seekers they are.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2014, 05:09:41 AM »


These statistics provide irrefutable evidence about the exclusion of Indo-Trinis from state corporations. The figures are probably no different in the foreign service, security service and public service in general. The reverse is probably true when the UNC was in power. The pendulum swung from one corner to the next. Can we ever realise that elusive dream of equality and meritocracy? Something for the reformers of our constitution to think about.
By Anand Ramlogan


Oh ok.  Once he knows.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2014, 05:48:27 PM »
Former PM Basdeo Panday posted this on his FB wall on August 9th. Leh we see if it will become reality eh

Quote
Kamla/s crap
Kamla and the PP are going to pull some of the thickest wool over the eyes of the people, and before they know it they will find themselves like naked sheep in the constitutional bamboo. Have you seen through her guise?
Is it possible that the Prime Minister has introduced this nonsensical proposal of “a run-off” as a red herring? I think so. She is getting the nation to concentrate so completely on this inane proposal to such an extent that they have forgotten the real issues of meaningful constitutional reform. After the population has bawled and screamed in protest she will then pull off one of her usual condescending tricks by announcing that in response to the people’s request she is withdrawing this proposal and passing the rest of the other meaningless proposals. And you will be silent and satisfied that this was constitutional reform.
Not bad, eh!
Oh, by the way! Have you thought of this scenario? Three parties are contesting in a particular constituency; PNM, UNC and ILP. The PNM and UNC get 40% each of the votes cast, and the ILP gets the other 20%. Since no Party has got 50% there is a run-off. In the run-off the PNM and the UNC get 50% each. What happens? Just a thought!

« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 05:52:06 PM by Sando prince »

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2014, 06:00:42 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKZAMxRaOL4

"How fortunate it is for leaders that men do not think. "
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 06:02:46 PM by Bourbon »
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2014, 07:51:31 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lKZAMxRaOL4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/lKZAMxRaOL4</a>

"How fortunate it is for leaders that men do not think. "
Most of those idiots don't understand what the bill does and that the bill was presented now as a successful distraction from the Life Sports Programme issue that has been exposing how much corruption government ministers have been involved in.

The 3 main things that the Constitutional Amendment Bill is meant to do:-

1. Limiting the PM to serving two terms in office.
This deprives the T&T public and Ruling Party electorate of the widest choice of leaders if they think a particular PM has done a great job as leader of the ruling party and country and is a better choice as leader than any of their colleagues. Why deprive the electorate of the choice if they are pleased with a PM's performance and want them in power for more than two terms?

2. Power of recall of MPs.
As presented in the bill this power of recall is flawed as it needs more votes than is used to elect an MP plus it is only effective after the MP has served 3 years. What use is that if an MP is performing ineffectively and the constituents want to remove them after 6 months to a year of non-performance?

3. The 2nd Elections Run-off.
Apart from being extra costly and time consuming to the economy of the country is just a way of allowing one of the bigger parties to steal and buy votes from one of the smaller parties when they could not get the required number of votes to win the election outright. This re-run as well as denying the choice of many of the voters for one of the smaller parties can lead to corruption by one of the bigger parties passing money and trying to buy votes from the smaller parties. It will also mean that smaller parties will never be able to grow and become a large major party leading to a dictatorship led by the party with the most bribery money.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A referendum should be given to the T&T public on all the items on the bill before the bill was even considered in the lower house. Items 1. & 2. of the bill are clearly red-herrings and item 3. is really the item that the government is most interested in bringing into effect to accommodate their intentions of buying the elections as they now realize that they are not going to win the elections outright based on their current track record.

With this in mind the Bill should be stopped by members of the upper house or the T&T President should refuse to sign the bill into law because it has clearly been rushed thru the lower and upper houses in an unconstitutional manner without proper public consultation on the items being tampered with.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2014, 10:19:01 PM »
Lawd it just shows how ignorant some of the masses are- blind support - people  are ill informed and  the sweaty mod hooted and howled and bowed down to caesar,

Ah wonder how many are implants from Guyana?

Offline weary1969

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2014, 11:19:35 AM »
Lawd it just shows how ignorant some of the masses are- blind support - people  are ill informed and  the sweaty mod hooted and howled and bowed down to caesar,

Ah wonder how many are implants from Guyana?

They are URP/CEPEP contractors they aaaemble at the constiuency office and bus to town. If they eh come they eh go get pay or worse loose they wuk. So do not expect them to understand the issues. Their only issue is that they need to get pay.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Socapro

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2014, 08:10:29 PM »
DR. ROWLEY ON GOVT PLANS TO STEAL THE ELECTIONS
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/54mTRu7z0RA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/54mTRu7z0RA</a>

And who does Mr Rambachan think he is fooling with his statement that the UNC has always maintained respect for the law? These UNC ministers really do take the T&T public for fools!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 08:17:25 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2014, 07:45:28 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKZAMxRaOL4

"How fortunate it is for leaders that men do not think. "

I dunno if to  :rotfl: or  :'(

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2014, 08:01:06 AM »
PREACH bredda, preach! I take issue with the commission not holding consultations in some constituencies. This is why so much of the public was confused when the bill was introduced to Parliament two weeks ago. Also the run-off proposal part of the bill was never part of public consultations and was only inserted into the bill right before it was introduced to Parliament. So this bill has been passed in Parliament and has a good chance of passing in the Senate and we call this democracy. I echo the concerns of the writer of the article below. The real problem with this amendment is the parliamentary process that allowed its passage.

Quote
I was confirmed in this view when, after the vote, it occurred to me that I had just witnessed 23 persons take the first step in changing our Constitution on an absolutely fundamental electoral procedure—the way we elect our representatives—without first consulting us the electorate of over one million persons. (It is a matter of fact, not conjecture, that the proposal to have “run-off voting” was not discussed at any of the consultations held by Constitution Review Commission.)

How could 23 persons change how we elect our representatives, without consulting us? Well, the Attorney General has explained that he consulted international constitutional experts and they advised him that under our existing Constitution, a simple majority was all that is required for passage of the Bill. And this view has been expressed also by the head of the Elections and Boundaries Commission among other eminent persons in Trinidad.

What this means therefore is that so long as there is a quorum in the House, the Government can pass any piece of legislation to change how our electoral system works! What an alarming thought! And, if we don’t like it, too bad for us because under our “democracy” the Government has a majority and therefore has the authority! Indeed the political leader of the Congress of the People, a coalition partner, was very proud to proclaim that the passage of the Bill “improves” democracy in our country!


http://www.trinidadexpress.com/letters/Senate-to-the-rescue-again-271466471.html

« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 08:08:09 AM by Sando prince »

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2014, 01:23:05 AM »
I find allyuh lapsing. Anyhow..the stories in a nutshell:

There are calls for the senate president to recuse himself. Details here . This is due to an email he allegedly sent asking for it to go to the Joint Select Committee. Arguments to the issue are here, and here (from a body I really pleasantly suprised to hear from), the Law Association .

The EBC claims it was "not consulted" . Interesting.

And I dont know how many of you may recall I mentioned the "the Senate President would then have to cast a deciding vote and that vote must be to maintain the status quo..or no. Not sure how true...my research continuing."

According to the Parliament Glossary
Quote
casting vote. The deciding vote accorded to the Speaker/President of the Senate (or, in committee, to the chairman) in the event of a tie. The Speaker/President of the Senate or chairman may vote only in order to avoid a deadlock, and traditionally votes so as to maintain the status quo.

My concern is the "traditionally". It could be argued he not obligated to. In any case...if the imbroglio continues...would he preside? If he doesn't..who would? This is one long winded piece of comess.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2014, 10:29:41 AM »
I find allyuh lapsing. Anyhow..the stories in a nutshell:

There are calls for the senate president to recuse himself. Details here . This is due to an email he allegedly sent asking for it to go to the Joint Select Committee. Arguments to the issue are here, and here (from a body I really pleasantly suprised to hear from), the Law Association .

The EBC claims it was "not consulted" . Interesting.

And I dont know how many of you may recall I mentioned the "the Senate President would then have to cast a deciding vote and that vote must be to maintain the status quo..or no. Not sure how true...my research continuing."

According to the Parliament Glossary
Quote
casting vote. The deciding vote accorded to the Speaker/President of the Senate (or, in committee, to the chairman) in the event of a tie. The Speaker/President of the Senate or chairman may vote only in order to avoid a deadlock, and traditionally votes so as to maintain the status quo.

My concern is the "traditionally". It could be argued he not obligated to. In any case...if the imbroglio continues...would he preside? If he doesn't..who would? This is one long winded piece of comess.



No lapsing over here boss. ah following all the bacchanal that could have been avoided if the commission cared to give us widespread public consultation on the final draft of the bill 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/AQoYkIiekQg&amp;index=51&amp;list=UUUsrWNkuJquTnUtgJJlP8bw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/AQoYkIiekQg&amp;index=51&amp;list=UUUsrWNkuJquTnUtgJJlP8bw</a>
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 10:50:24 AM by Sando prince »

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2014, 05:39:05 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/WE--WONT-STOP--BILL-271621561.html

Quote
WE WON’T STOP BILL
Govt says Law Association is entitled to give its view, but it is going ahead with Senate debate

By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Aug 17, 2014 at 11:35 PM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 18, 2014 at 4:13 AM ECT
There will be no backing down on the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014. In fact, the People’s Partnership Government led by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar herself will hit the ground from today in a bid to educate the people and clear the fears and doubts with respect to the run-off provision of the Bill.

The United National Congress (UNC) will be holding a public meeting tonight in Gasparillo and according to Acting Attorney General and Housing Minister Dr Roodal Moonilal, the Government will show the people how the Bill seeks to strengthen to the democracy and will listen to the feedback.

The Law Association of Trinidad and Tobago, led by Seenath Jairam SC, on Saturday called for the debate in the Senate to be stopped and for the people to be consulted on its provisions. However, speaking to the Express by phone yesterday, Moonilal said that as of now, there is no debate in the Senate on the Bill thereby allowing further discussions on its provisions.

The Bill was laid in the Parliament on August 4 by the Prime minister.
It proposes fixed terms for a prime minister, the right of recall of an MP and the most controversial aspect—a run-off vote—where a second poll will be held in a constituency between the two top parties, in the event candidates do not obtain more than 50 per cent of the vote.
The Bill was passed on the House of Representatives on August 12 with Government’s simple majority.

COP Ministers Winston Dookeran and Carolyn Seepersad-Bachan voted against the Bill whilst Social Integration Minister Rodger Samuel, a COP member, abstained. The debate on the Bill in the Senate is carded to take place on August 26 where the vote of at least one independent senator is needed for its passage.

Questioned on whether Government will heed the Law Association’s call for the debate to be stopped, Moonilal said there was ample time for further discussion. “Members of the Law Association are free to engage in discussions themselves and to advance any other recommendation they have,” said Moonilal.

Moonilal said Government faces the challenge of treating with the misinformation being put into the public domain about the Bill but remains committed to its policy objectives. “I think the PNM has engendered a lot of hysteria and emotion on this matter,” said Moonilal “The run-off provision is extremely democratic, it gives people the right not to one but to two votes...taken from majority principle and not the principle of plurality, it is putting an end to electoral apartheid,” said Moonilal.

“I think there are elements in the society that are in mortal fear of majority rule,” he added. Moonilal said he attended a function in his own Oropouche East constituency on Saturday and people came up to him to confirm that he supports the Bill and that it will go forward.
Moonilal said the PNM was the main culprit fuelling controversy on the Bill.

“We intend to dispel the doubt and the myths associated with this matter beginning from tomorrow (today) in Gasparillo,” said Moonilal.
He said the People’s Partnership was very clear on its manifesto promise—fixed term limits and right of recall. He said the run-off provision was a corollary to the recall measure.

“We will stand to deliver our promises because if we don’t, the very people who are asking us to debate and postpone and so on they will come and say we haven’t implemented our promises,” he said.
Asked whether consideration will be given to withdrawing the Bill at this time, Moonilal responded, “That matter cannot arise.”

On another note, Moonilal said he and Leader of Government Business in the Senate Ganga Singh will today meet with Senate President Timothy Hamel-Smith to discuss concerns raised by former head of the public service Reginald Dumas. Dumas called for Hamel-Smith to recuse himself from presiding over the debate of the Bill in the Senate as he received an email purportedly sent by Hamel-Smith to some people advising them to endorse having the Bill sent to the Parliament’s Joint Select Committee (JSC).

Dumas said it would be improper for Hamel-Smith to preside having taken a position on the issue. With respect to the debate of the Bill in the Senate, Moonilal said he believes that the independent senators will properly analyse the Bill. “The independent senators are not politicians, they are not concerned with the political landscape and politics, they are concerned with the merit of the Bill and policy, so I’m sure they will exercise best judgement,” said Moonilal.



http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/PNM-Ramesh-to-appeal-in-court-271621311.html

Quote
PNM, Ramesh to appeal in court
By Anna Ramdass
Story Created: Aug 17, 2014 at 11:32 PM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 17, 2014 at 11:32 PM ECT
The People’s National Movement (PNM) will mount a legal challenge against the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014, former Senator Fitzgerald Hinds said yesterday. He was speaking on behalf of the Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley at the Diego Martin Central 25th annual conference at the St Michael’s Parish Hall, Diego Martin, yesterday.

Hinds also expressed shock that the Law Association took a position on the Bill and called on the Government to halt the debate and return to consultations with the people. According to Hinds, the run-off provision of the Bill was a tactic of the Government to remain in power.
He said Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and the United National Congress (UNC) realised that they have to change the game after the PNM delivered “licks like rain” at the Tobago House of Assembly (THA) Election, the Local Government elections and the St Joseph by-election.

Hinds said the people of this country are fed up with this Government, “the people cannot wait to see the back of them so she knows what’s coming down the tube, so she has to change that,” said Hinds.
Former attorney general Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj had also indicated that he intends to go to court to have the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014 declared unconstitutional.




And...didnt know about this....this is all the info I have. No idea as to where..who arranged it or whatever but oh boy....


http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Constituents-burn-Lincoln-Douglas-bobolee-271621171.html

Quote
Constituents burn Lincoln Douglas ‘bobolee’
Story Created: Aug 17, 2014 at 11:30 PM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 17, 2014 at 11:30 PM ECT
“Burn Douglas Burn!” This was the chant of a large group of constituents from the Lopinot/Bon Air West community yesterday afternoon as they assaulted an effigy of their Member of Parliament (MP) Dr Lincoln Douglas who voted in support of the Constitutional (Amendment) Bill (2014).

Residents of the area called for Douglas to resign from his position as MP for the role he played in passing the controversial bill, saying he did not vote with the interest of his constituents in mind. Douglas is a member of the Congress of the People (COP) and he expressed concern about the Bill during his contribution to the debate.

The COP had met August 10 and voted for a delay on debate in the House of Representatives. Members had asked for it to be sent to a Joint Select Committee of Parliament. Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar said MPs could vote according to conscience.

When the vote was taken the following day at the end of the debate, Douglas voted in favour of the bill which was passed in the House of Representatives. To demonstrate their displeasure with this decision, yesterday constituents of Douglas—beat, kicked, punched, threw and even burnt an effigy of the MP.

“We came out here in defence of our nation. This Bill is going to take away our right to democracy, it is going to take away right for freedom and we need the Government and our MP to understand when we say no we mean no. We don’t mean you say no, then talk against the bill in Parliament, and then when the time comes you vote for it,” explained a female protestor.

The group promised that this protest was not a one-off action and that it would be repeated in the immediate future, saying that they will join other groups outside of Parliament and throughout the country as they protest the Bill.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2014, 08:43:19 PM »


Residents of the area called for Douglas to resign from his position as MP for the role he played in passing the controversial bill, saying he did not vote with the interest of his constituents in mind. Douglas is a member of the Congress of the People (COP) and he expressed concern about the Bill during his contribution to the debate.

 ;D Dey kill dis man in Lopinot  http://www.tv6tnt.com/sevenpm-news/-Protest-in-Lopinot-3111----271619971.html

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2014, 09:02:46 PM »
Government to begin Constitution Amendment Bill education drive tonight
by NEWSPOWER on AUGUST 18, 2014 · LEAVE A COMMENT

Prime Minister, Kamla lier Persad Bissessar
Prime Minister, Kamla lier Persad Bissessar
The People’s Partnership Government says it will not back down on the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014. The Kamla Persad-Bissessar led government has indicated that

the leader herself will hit the ground, beginning today in an effort to educate the country’s people and clear the fears and doubts as it relates to the run-off

provision of the Bill.

Tonight will also see a public meeting being held by Persad Bissessar’s UNC party in Gasparillo, The Attorney General, Anand Ramlogan along with Housing Minister,

Roodal Moonilal have assured that the government will show the people how the Bill seeks to strengthen to the democracy.

The Law Association of Trinidad and Tobago, led by Seenath Jairam SC, on Saturday called for the debate in the Senate to be stopped and for the people to be consulted

on its provisions.

The Bill was laid in the Parliament on August 4 by the Prime Minister.

It proposes fixed terms for a prime minister, the right of recall of an MP and the most controversial aspect—a run-off vote—where a second poll will be held in a

constituency between the two top parties, in the event candidates do not obtain more than 50 per cent of the vote.

- See more at: http://news.power102fm.com/?p=23367#sthash.qNfgH8ql.dpuf
.
good things happening to good people: a good thing
good things happening to bad people: a bad thing
bad things happening to good people: a bad thing
bad things happening to bad people: a good thing

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2014, 08:52:48 AM »
Now...the elephant in the room just buss a fart

Quote
PM: No Indian takeover
By Anna Ramdass
Story Created: Aug 18, 2014 at 10:56 PM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 18, 2014 at 10:56 PM ECT
The controversial run-off provision of the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014 will not allow Indians to take over the country, says Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar.

Speaking at the United National Congress (UNC) Monday night forum at the Gasparillo Secondary School last night, Persad-Bissessar said the run-off mechanism would not divide the country into a system of tribal voting but instead will unite the people.

Persad-Bissessar pointed out that this country’s population comprises of 35.4 per cent East Indian, 34.2 per cent Africans, 22.8 per cent Mixed, 6.2 per cent Undeclared and 1.4 per cent are the others (Chinese, White, Syrian, Lebanese etc).

“Since more than 51 per cent of votes is required to elect a majority, an MP would require more than the ethnic vote to win the seat,” said Persad-Bissessar.


She said: “If every single Indian voted for the UNC or the Partnership they could never get the majority required.”

She said no one ethnic group on its own can win the required more than 50 per cent of the vote.

“They would have to unite with other groups. That is what the run-off really signifies. Majority rule with a mandate of unification instead of division,” said Persad-Bissessar.

She said Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley’s lack of support and fear of a run-off suggests that he believes he cannot unite people nor can he win the majority of the votes of the people.

Persad-Bissessar said some of the fears expressed about the run-off system suggest that another election would be undemocratic and would impose a restriction on the freedom of choice of the voter.

She said the individual’s right of choice to vote for a party or candidate of their choice is not restricted in any form or fashion and will remain unfettered.

Instead, she said, the right of choice of the individual is in fact broadened by permitting the voter a second opportunity to vote in any instance where the electorate is unable to decide on a majority winner in any constituency.

Persad-Bissessar said voters would have the opportunity to vote expanded, and not restricted, as they will have the chance to vote for a second time and may wish to change their minds or keep their original choice.

She said persons who did not vote on election day might decide to vote when the run-off election is held and who knows how that person would vote.

The Bill, which was passed in the House of Representatives on August 12 is scheduled to be debated in the Senate on August 26.


Now this would be a valid argument if the proposal was for an Executive President like what Manning was proposing. However...each constituency isnt comprised like that. There are several constituencies that can be considered to be base constituencies...certain parties KNOW that regardless of what...they getting those.


The real drama starts with the marginal seats. For the last election...there were 9 seats that were considered "marginal"...ie....winner by a margin of less than 2000 votes (which I vaguely remember is what most analysts use as the metric.). The danger in it is further compounded by the fact that the previous government would retain office unless a clear majority attained (ie 21 + seats).

So...supposing. Now we only supposing. 16 Seats PNM...16 Seats PP....the others waiting to run off...or facing challenges to the result otherwise. The current government would retain until somebody reaches 21. Which is potentially what could or would happen....and given how early the tricks and tactics started.....underhandedness would be the order by next election.


So why try to bulldoze this through with little to no consultation and try to portray deceit as a virtue?

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2014, 09:02:18 AM »
Some nice articles here.


Sunity Maraj. Some gems here too.
Quote
Push a people too hard and they might just wake up. Like an ant nest stirred by government boots, public opinion has come alive with a bristling energy, creating collateral opportunity out of the Prime Minister’s indecent haste in rushing her Constitution (Amendment) Bill through the House.
A people impassioned is a beautiful thing.
To see the dross of cynicism slip and to glimpse the spark of hopeful longing is at once wondrous and heart-breaking.

Quote
In this context, the PM’s bill should be reviewed for its appropriateness and relevance to the nation as object of our desire. It should also be examined for logic and use of language. Under the Kamla Theory of Mathematics, one from 10 leaves 11 and a minority from a minority makes a majority, magically transforming less votes into more democracy. In the background, disciples of Goebbels plot how to run off with the vote by sowing confusion about “run-offs” within a political party where everyone supports the same ideology, platform and  manifesto, and “run-offs” between opposing parties which give third party voters the Hobson’s choice of either voting for a party they do not support or not voting at all.
Add to that the neat sleight of hand, where elected representation in proportion to votes is neatly switched with the offer of selected representation in proportion to votes in the Senate. But don’t think too much about that as yet, because it’s apparently another vaps idea still in development.


Raffique Shah

Quote
The PM’s contempt for the masses did not stop there. In sending the Bill to the Senate, she suddenly finds time, a full month, to allow senators to study its provisions. The MPs did not need that—they are bright, seedless raisins. But those dull senators, especially the independents, need time to do their homework.
The PM really takes us for fools. Check and see how many Government senators are vacationing abroad. Check out who is courting the independents from whom she needs at least one vote in order for the Bill to become law. She will most likely get more than one. But she and her accomplices need time to work on them, to ensure they deliver when it matters most.
In the interim, she parades around the country with a blimp-size ego, comparing her tampering with the Constitution with historical milestones such as the abolition of slavery, Nelson Mandela’s fight against apartheid in South Africa and other landmark achievements. If you think I’m lying or exaggerating, check out her speech at an Emancipation dinner she hosted last Thursday.

Michael Harris


Quote
What is very important to note is that as a result of such racial polarisation in our politics it has been exceedingly difficult (and it may in fact be impossible) for us to build for ourselves structures of good governance or to achieve good government. The reasons for this are not difficult to determine. In the first place since the parties come to us and solicit our support on the basis of ethnic or racial solidarity, and we, in fact, give our support on that basis, then we cannot demand of them; and they have little incentive to deliver good performance when they are in government.

Moreover, when a party wins office based upon the support of one race, or one ethnic grouping, as opposed to the other race or ethnic grouping, that party has neither incentive nor interest in making government policies which assist that other race or group. And in any case no government can be effective if it is mistrusted by half the population. But it is not to be supposed that even as the majority of the population went along with this politics of racial polarisation that it escaped their attention and understanding that it was precisely this type of politics which kept them locked in prisons of crapaud politics, indifferent public service, rampant political corruption and their own utter impotence to do anything to challenge the political authorities.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 09:12:45 AM by Bourbon »
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2014, 11:21:25 AM »
Now...the elephant in the room just buss a fart

Quote
PM: No Indian takeover
By Anna Ramdass
Story Created: Aug 18, 2014 at 10:56 PM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 18, 2014 at 10:56 PM ECT
The controversial run-off provision of the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014 will not allow Indians to take over the country, says Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar.

Speaking at the United National Congress (UNC) Monday night forum at the Gasparillo Secondary School last night, Persad-Bissessar said the run-off mechanism would not divide the country into a system of tribal voting but instead will unite the people.

Persad-Bissessar pointed out that this country’s population comprises of 35.4 per cent East Indian, 34.2 per cent Africans, 22.8 per cent Mixed, 6.2 per cent Undeclared and 1.4 per cent are the others (Chinese, White, Syrian, Lebanese etc).

“Since more than 51 per cent of votes is required to elect a majority, an MP would require more than the ethnic vote to win the seat,” said Persad-Bissessar.


She said: “If every single Indian voted for the UNC or the Partnership they could never get the majority required.”

She said no one ethnic group on its own can win the required more than 50 per cent of the vote.

“They would have to unite with other groups. That is what the run-off really signifies. Majority rule with a mandate of unification instead of division,” said Persad-Bissessar.

She said Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley’s lack of support and fear of a run-off suggests that he believes he cannot unite people nor can he win the majority of the votes of the people.

Persad-Bissessar said some of the fears expressed about the run-off system suggest that another election would be undemocratic and would impose a restriction on the freedom of choice of the voter.

She said the individual’s right of choice to vote for a party or candidate of their choice is not restricted in any form or fashion and will remain unfettered.

Instead, she said, the right of choice of the individual is in fact broadened by permitting the voter a second opportunity to vote in any instance where the electorate is unable to decide on a majority winner in any constituency.

Persad-Bissessar said voters would have the opportunity to vote expanded, and not restricted, as they will have the chance to vote for a second time and may wish to change their minds or keep their original choice.

She said persons who did not vote on election day might decide to vote when the run-off election is held and who knows how that person would vote.

The Bill, which was passed in the House of Representatives on August 12 is scheduled to be debated in the Senate on August 26.


Now this would be a valid argument if the proposal was for an Executive President like what Manning was proposing. However...each constituency isnt comprised like that. There are several constituencies that can be considered to be base constituencies...certain parties KNOW that regardless of what...they getting those.


The real drama starts with the marginal seats. For the last election...there were 9 seats that were considered "marginal"...ie....winner by a margin of less than 2000 votes (which I vaguely remember is what most analysts use as the metric.). The danger in it is further compounded by the fact that the previous government would retain office unless a clear majority attained (ie 21 + seats).

So...supposing. Now we only supposing. 16 Seats PNM...16 Seats PP....the others waiting to run off...or facing challenges to the result otherwise. The current government would retain until somebody reaches 21. Which is potentially what could or would happen....and given how early the tricks and tactics started.....underhandedness would be the order by next election.


So why try to bulldoze this through with little to no consultation and try to portray deceit as a virtue?



Excellent points  :beermug:

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2014, 08:29:31 PM »
A man now show me a scenario.  Take for example st Joseph where four parties contest.  PNM-32%...UNC-31%..ILP-7%....Independent: 30%.  How many run off ballots would we have?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 05:21:51 AM by Bourbon »
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2014, 09:18:40 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/CBahef6qnfQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/CBahef6qnfQ</a>
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 09:42:01 PM by Sando prince »

Offline Socapro

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2014, 09:18:51 PM »
Unfortunately our PM is proving herself to be racial by playing the race card on this elections run-off argument.
She already showed her way of thinking by encouraging Sat Maharaj with his racist rhetoric and now this.
Sad that she has disgraced herself in this way as our first female PM.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

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Rowley: Runoff Bill splits the vote
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2014, 09:20:15 PM »
Rowley: Runoff Bill splits the vote
By JULIEN NEAVES Tuesday, August 19 2014 (T&T Newsday)

OPPOSITION Leader Dr Keith Rowley has described the Constitution (Amendment) Bill as the embodiment of “don’t split the vote,” and is advising the Independent Bench to consider that the bill, which will be laid today in the Senate and debated on August 26, was not supported by the entire Cabinet.


“I would say to all the Independents...just take a look. Any prime minister that cannot get the Cabinet to agree to a measure, such a measure has no place in the Parliament. They couldn’t even get the Cabinet to agree to it. So I’m waiting to see how the Independents can agree to it,” he said.

He was speaking with the media following the public consultation “Towards Tobago’s Autonomy” held at the University of the West Indies Teaching and Learning Centre, St Augustine.

The Constitution (Amendment) Bill was passed in the Lower House at about 4 am on August 12 and the vote was 23 Government MPs voting for, 14 against and one abstention, Congress of the People MP Rodger Samuel. Those voting against comprised 11 PNM Opposition MPs, Chaguanas West MP and Independent Liberal Party Chairman Jack Warner and, breaking rank, COP MPs Winston Dookeran and Carolyn-Seepersad-Bachan.

On August 26, the Government only needs one of the nine independent Senators to vote with them for the bill to be passed in the Senate. The bill contains three provisions: right of recall for MPs, two-term limits for prime ministers and a runoff election if a candidate does not receive more than 50 percent of the votes in a constituency. The run-off provision is the most contested with the Opposition and other public figures expressing concerns that it could remove third parties from the race.

Speaking on Sunday, Rowley was asked to comment on the Law Association calling for debate to be stopped and the Elections and Boundaries Commission (EBC) reporting that they had not been informed about it.

He replied: “None of this should be surprising to anybody. This bill has been the product of a little cabal around the Prime Minister. It was clear to us that there were many people in the Cabinet who were unaware of it, and we not even clear how it got to the Parliament. So what the EBC said we (the Opposition) pretty much knew that. It is the work of a strategic committee of the cabal, and it is not about Trinidad and Tobago.”

He continued: “We’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - it’s the UNC campaign strategy to try and hold on to government by winning the collection. They come up with a scheme to screen out vote splitters. It’s the embodiment of ‘don’t split the vote’.”

The PNM last night held its second public meeting on the bill at Skiffle Bunch panyard, San Fernando.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 10:02:44 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline fishs

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Re: Kamla wants sweeping constitutional changes.
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2014, 02:48:52 AM »

 I see nothing wrong with the proposed changes and the so called "run off" is also a good measure.
 The people that did not vote for either leading candidate have an opportunity to hear both of them again and make a choice of which one they want to represent them.

 All the political parties have the same chance. The fact that some may have more finances available to them is irrelevant.

 Fear of change is worse than change itself.
Ah want de woman on de bass

 

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