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Author Topic: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T  (Read 7843 times)

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Offline Socapro

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2014, 12:28:13 PM »
Some might say it a tad overdue...but....According to BM


HE SPEAKS!!!!!


Quote
President Anthony Carmona has weighed in on the controversial Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2014, saying yesterday that “forays” into reform were to be expected from a young nation, but there was no room for “bull-headed partisanship”.

Carmona said the constitutional reform exercise must be done transparently as he stressed his own role in the process.

He reminded the population that he was not a “former politician” but a former judge who seeks counsel.

The President broke with tradition this year, choosing to address the nation in a toast yesterday, Independence Day, rather than issue a statement on the eve of the occasion.

With Independence Day falling just three days after the passage in the Senate of the contentious Bill, Carmona stated: “As a relatively young independent nation, we will experience growing pains.

“There will be lessons to learn. Our recent forays into constitutional reform are to be expected.

“These attempts to refresh the foundation of our nationhood must, however, be conducted in an atmosphere that is transparent, well-informed, inclusive, tolerant and driven by critical analysis. In this exercise there is no room for blasé statements and bull-headed partisanship,” he added.

“Change is the only constant and to turn one’s back and pretend that it is not coming is an exercise in futility. “Actively engaging in the discourse and discussion is the right of every citizen and the responsibility of every elected and appointed representative.”

Carmona also sent a message about the role of the President in the reform process.

“It is not lost on the Office of The President the role that the Head of State must play in constitutional reform concomitant with constitutional restraints and neutrality.”

He added: “The national community would do well to remember that the current Head of State is not a former politician but a former judge who seeks counsel.”

Government’s Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2014--which was piloted by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar in the Senate last Tuesday, the first time a PM has done so in the Upper House--has received criticism from several quarters.

Three provisions of the Bill have drew debate and criticism--a two-term limit for prime ministers; right of recall of MPs; and an election run-off clause that anti-Bill activists contend was foisted on the population without consultation.

Consultations on reform had been carried out by the Constitutional Reform Commission (CRC), headed by Legal Affairs Minister Prakash Ramadhar, but former CRC member, Dr Merle Hodge, claimed that the run-off clause was not discussed.

The Bill was passed with amendments in the Senate on Thursday night with a vote of 18 for and 12 against.

Independent Senators Dr Rolph Balgobin, Dr Dhanayshar Mahabir and David Small supported the Bill.

It required the support of one Independent.


Exactly what you with expect from a puppet President who is just there to sign whatever the government gives him to sign without consideration for if it erodes democracy and increases the opportunity for corruption.

A useful Constitution reform will be allowing the T&T electorate to vote for who they would like as their President after the government and opposition MP's have nominated who they view as the best candidates for the job.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 12:32:47 PM by Socapro »
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Offline Socapro

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BE TOLERANT
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2014, 12:42:04 PM »
Listen again to our puppet President trying to tell the T&T public on Independence Day to be tolerant of the undemocratic tampering with the elections voting system by the PP government.

BE TOLERANT
By Andre Bagoo Monday, September 1 2014 (T&T Newsday)

PRESIDENT Anthony Carmona yesterday said Constitution reform is to be expected as “change is the only constant” but said the process of reform must be “transparent, well-informed, inclusive, tolerant and driven by critical analysis” and there was no room for “bull-headed partisanship”.


The President deviated from normal practise of issuing an Independence Day speech one day in advance, in favour of making his broad remarks at the annual Toast to the Nation, hosted by the Combined Officers of the Defence Force, at the western section of the National Academy for the Performing Art, in Port-of-Spain, at about 11.45 am.

This was one of several events traditionally held after the Independence Day Parade earlier in the day at the Queen’s Park Savannah. They include functions hosted by the Acting Commissioner of Police at the Police Administrative Building, on Edward Street, and by the Fire Chief at Fire Headquarters on Wrighston Road, Port-of-Spain.

Persons who would normally be in attendance at the event include: the Prime Minister, the Chief Justice, Members of Parliament and senior officers of the protective services and Ministry of National Security.

On the issue of Constitution reform, Carmona said, “As a relatively young Independent nation, we will experience growing pains. There will be lessons to learn. Our recent forays into constitutional reform are to be expected.”

He called for an atmosphere of transparency in relation to reform, but also appeared to criticise partisan interests on the issue.

“These attempts to refresh the foundation of our nationhood must however be conducted in an atmosphere that is transparent, well-informed, inclusive, tolerant and driven by critical analysis,” Carmona said. “In this exercise there is no room for blasé statements and bull-headed partisanship. Change is the only constant and to turn one’s back and pretend that it is not coming is an exercise in futility.”

The President said his role in the process was influenced by “constitutional restraints and neutrality.”

“Actively engaging in the discourse and discussion is the right of every citizen and the responsibility of every elected and appointed representative,” Carmona said. “It is not lost on the Office of The President the role that the Head of State must play in constitutional reform concomitant with constitutional restraints and neutrality. The national community would do well to remember that the current Head of State is not a former politician but a former Judge who seeks counsel.”

The President’s remarks came days after the Senate passed the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014. The legislation was passed in the Senate with amendments and therefore is due to return to the House of Representatives for final approval before being sent to President’s House for assent. Even after assent, the legislation has to be proclaimed by the President, acting in accordance with the advice of Cabinet. But none of this is due to take place at least until after the conclusion of the Budget process which starts on September 8 and could well stretch into the final weeks of that month.

The President was silent on the specific question of assent of bills.

Carmona yesterday noted he had deviated from tradition in not releasing an address to the nation and choosing, instead, to deliver his remarks at the Toast to the Nation.

“It is traditional for the Office of The President to release a message to commemorate Independence the day before,” Carmona said, according to notes of his speech released by the Office of the President. “But this year I felt the need to change that dynamic and what better way to do so than to address the nation at the toast to celebrate our 52nd birthday.”

Carmona also commented on the structure of the nation’s economy, particularly the issue of productivity.

“Let us be brutally frank on the issue of the national largesse and patrimony,” the President said. “Our dependency levels on the public purse in all sectors of our society are unparalleled. In this almost institutionalised age of entitlement in our history where dependency is the jockey riding the economy, where productivity levels continue to wane and we lose our competitive edge as reflected in our low placing on the world competitiveness index, we must as a nation take stock and become a wise custodian of our national purse.”

Carmona said the dependence on oil and natural gas must change.

“As much as with increased exploration new gas reserves can be found, what must be obvious to all is that our oil and gas reserves are not renewable and they are diminishing, and to protect the generations to come, we must engage in nothing short of a radical shift in the diversification of the economy,” the President said. This comment follows last week’s Ryder Scott report that gas reserves had declined by seven percent.

“The proverbial horse has not yet bolted. We have done well financially but we cannot, and must not sit on our laurels. Our traditional oil and gas philosophy does not have conservation as a crucial component and we can ill afford to continue to spend billions of dollars which are not reflected in the improved human capital of our country,” Carmona said.

The President contrasted petrochemical revenues with levels of crime and unemployment, though he did not give figures.

“We continue to challenge established sociological doctrine which establishes links between poverty and crime, unemployment and a low GDP,” Carmona said. “We have low unemployment and one of the highest GDPs in our region, yet still we have poverty, crime and lifestyle diseases rampant in our communities.” He further stated, “I am convinced that we can turn this around because our greatest resource is not oil and gas but remains our human resource.”

The President also issued a call for unity.

“Let us put aside our petty differences and work together on the road to becoming true patriots in deed and action, and not just in name,” Carmona said. “Happy Birthday Trinidad and Tobago. Happy Independence to all.”
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 01:31:51 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2014, 12:59:51 PM »
^^ Socapro dais de same Independence speech from the President posted by Bourbon?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 01:18:36 PM by Sando prince »

Offline Socapro

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2014, 01:29:28 PM »
^^ Socapro dais de same Independence speech from the President posted by Bourbon?

Yes but its from the government's newspaper the Newsday so was presented by them with a pro government stance designed to make the government look principled and good.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Ramgoat

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2014, 07:33:47 PM »
The first 2 amendments are great for democracy .The third one not so much.
 The one about recall  would have decimated this present govt has this been in force now

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2014, 07:48:59 PM »
The first 2 amendments are great for democracy .The third one not so much.
 The one about recall  would have decimated this present govt has this been in force now

Please how can it ...
I explained what would have happened in two ridings in the last election  above..
It would not have changed a UNC win.

We have two major parties , that have solid support . About 10 % are swing voters and
vote according to which party they are angry at ...
The minnow parties have no chance for a seat not even Jack Warner in the next election.
The end result will be a two horse race ....

Thanks krishna ,,for visiting this site.... :rotfl: :rotfl:
You should bring ketchim with you...


Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2014, 09:28:44 PM »

The voice of the people is the voice of God. Losing the faith and the trust of the people has its consequences.

Quote

I followed much of the debates in the Parliament on the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014 and have concluded that the outcome, from the standpoint of the People’s Partnership, can be described only as “pyrrhic’’ , i.e. “a victory costing more to the victor than to the vanquished”.

The bill and the outcome of the debates were witnessed by some unnecessary “blood-letting” and “naked politicking” on a matter so serious as to be dictating the manner of governance of this country. Reputation of members was none the better.


http://www.trinidadexpress.com/letters/A-victory-for-the-vanquished-273415681.html

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2014, 09:32:58 PM »
I said before the people will have the last say. What can be voted in as a simple majority can also be removed easily by a simple majority.

Quote


Never backward to come forward, Trinbagonians are demonstrably even more politically and constitutionally savvy nowadays, so any government perceived to be unwilling to listen to the chorus of concerns on any issue they consider to be of critical importance will be sure to feel. At any rate, political prudence should warn against future chaos, in that what is done by a simple majority may soon be trumped.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/letters/Beware-the-voice-of-God-273495781.html

« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:47:05 PM by Sando prince »

Offline weary1969

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2014, 10:11:23 PM »
All I need 4 d scholars to tell me how it needed a special majority 2 pass d Dog bill but a simple majority 2 change d constitution.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2014, 12:55:06 AM »
This law is for sheep. Four legs good, two legs better.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2014, 09:09:42 PM »
Interesting discussion on The Street 91.9FM going on right now about the Constitution Amendment Bill 2014.

Tune in: http://www.thestreet919fm.com/ or http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2014, 09:42:53 PM »

See how serious the ILP is about taking this bill to court. The PNM and MSJ only talking and considering and waiting BUT the ILP doing!

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Jack-Court-battle-on-run-off-has-begun-273680401.html

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2014, 10:01:00 PM »
Interesting discussion on The Street 91.9FM going on right now about the Constitution Amendment Bill 2014.

Tune in: http://www.thestreet919fm.com/ or http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/

I endorse the commentator who is saying God put religious leaders to echo the cries of the people instead of being passive

Offline Socapro

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2014, 10:04:55 PM »
Interesting discussion on The Street 91.9FM going on right now about the Constitution Amendment Bill 2014.

Tune in: http://www.thestreet919fm.com/ or http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/

I endorse the commentator who is saying God put religious leaders to echo the cries of the people instead of being passive
:beermug:
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2014, 12:20:23 PM »
Wait this shouldn't be a surprise. Everybody saying the SAME thing this man is saying

And to add to this, if you have a second round vote with three candidates you could possibly STILL GET A MINORITY candidate winning the race. Simply because he/she has acquired less than 50% but also less than the combine vote of the other two candidates in the run off poll. So the whole idea of this bill ensuring a majority winning candidate is flawed


This is correct! Allowing a minority candidate to be elected in the second rounds defeats the proposed purpose of the bill itself- to elect a majority candidate! If you're allowing election of a minority candidate in the second round of a three-way run-off why dismiss the result of the first round where the result was most likely the same?  Al Rawi posed this question to Mahabir but he , with his condescending self, refused to answer.


Are you surprised citizens now want him removed from the Senate?

Fixin TnT wants Mahabir fired

Fixin TnT and other interest groups against the Constitution (Amendment) Bill 2014 intend to call on President Anthony Carmona and the Government to revoke the appointment of Independent Senator Dr Dhanayshar Mahabir. This was the word from Fixin TnT head Kirk Waithe yesterday as he outlined the next step in the plan of action for the protesters who are saying even though the bill was passed their fight is far from over.

“In fact, it (the fight against it) has only just begun,” said Waithe. Apart from Fixin TnT, the People’s National Movement (PNM), Movement for Social Justice (MSJ), Independent Liberal Party (ILP) and a number of individuals, including former member of the Constitution Reform Commission Dr Merle Hodge and Attilah Springer, have been staging protest demonstrations outside Parliament since the bill went to the Lower House last month.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-09-03/fixin-tnt-wants-mahabir-fired

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2014, 10:23:28 PM »


The poster of this youtube video claims Rowley lose his cool during an interview on CNC3
:D  In my opinion he did a good job of reminding her of her duty as a Journalist. 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/o7WK7S9m-po" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/o7WK7S9m-po</a>

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2014, 11:47:02 PM »
Could the email gate be  the reason why the rush to get this bill past so quickly  ?
.
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Offline Socapro

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2014, 04:34:32 PM »


The poster of this youtube video claims Rowley lose his cool during an interview on CNC3
:D  In my opinion he did a good job of reminding her of her duty as a Journalist. 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/o7WK7S9m-po" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/o7WK7S9m-po</a>


The standard of many of these journalists in T&T is very low.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline MEP

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2014, 05:00:19 PM »
Just based on that little clip it seems as if that journalist, if we can used that word. is bent on eliciting a reaction from Rowley. It's an overall lack of professionalism rather than ask critical questions that would lead to Rowley's opinion she is relying on hearsay.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2014, 12:47:51 PM »
Big talk, I hope this really happens

Quote
Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley gave an undertaking that a PNM Government would repeal the Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2014 and go to the public for proper consultation on Constitution reform.

“That matter would come back to the public eventually because it requires public attention. You don’t change your election system as part of the election strategy for the incumbent party,” he said.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Rowley-A-PNM-Govt-would-repeal-bill-274183021.html?utm_content=buffera67fd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer 


Offline Bourbon

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2014, 02:14:12 PM »
Yuh know something?


I was suspecting that might happen....but I dunno if its me being cynical, but it seeming likely even more now.

I saw an article where the PM said that elections will be held when they constitutionally due...and they not due until next year September.
So what happens in the event of recount/run-off and all the rigmarole if September 30th comes...and the fiscal year ends?
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Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2014, 08:59:00 AM »
Yuh know something?


I was suspecting that might happen....but I dunno if its me being cynical, but it seeming likely even more now.

I saw an article where the PM said that elections will be held when they constitutionally due...and they not due until next year September.
So what happens in the event of recount/run-off and all the rigmarole if September 30th comes...and the fiscal year ends?

I will bet she will call elections before September next year. Simply because an election win will prove to the members in the PP party who don't agree with her decision making that the people support her as PM. 

However I don't see an election win at the moment. Ah see the same licks dey get in local elections happening again.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2014, 07:48:31 PM »
This issue will continue to be in headlines. I am happy people are still voicing their concerns.

http://www.tv6tnt.com/home/featured-links/Constitution-Reform-2901---274979871.html

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2014, 06:10:07 PM »

I didn't want to create a separate thread for this nonsense. But apparently there was a fist fight at a COP meeting yesterday. These are the men who aspire to be the leaders of T&T  :rotfl:
 
Fist fight at COP meeting

Around lunchtime on Sunday, two party activists had a brief battle outside the meeting room as one accused the other of being a snake. Sources say many in the COP were unhappy about the role of the activist who was called a snake. They accused him of being unfaithful to the party in the past.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-09-16/fist-fight-cop-meeting

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Constitution Amendment Bill 2014 represents erosion of democracy in T&T
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2014, 06:45:57 PM »
I expected this to happen! I hope when PNM wins the next general election they do as promised and repeal the bill and seek the proper widespread consultations on a new constitution reform that will be reflective of what every different group in society want..


State wins against ILP

Judgment on Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, 2014 challenge

Story Created: Oct 6, 2014 at 8:27 PM ECT
Story Updated: Oct 6, 2014 at 8:27 PM ECT
 Text of the judgment delivered yesterday by Justice Frank Seepersad in the matter brought by the Independent Liberal Party (ILP) against the AG on the Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, 2014. The State won the case.

1. Before the Court for  its determination  is the Defendant’s Notice  of Application filed 16th September, 2014 for an order  striking  out the Claimants’ claims. The issues that arise for determination on the Defendant’s Notice of Application are:
a. Whether  the instant  claim is an abuse of the Court’s process since the Constitution (Amendment)  Bill 2014 (the Bill) is not yet law having not undergone the full parliamentary process and procedure.
b. Whether the claimants have offended provisions of the Civil Proceedings Rules (1998) as amended  by failing to comply with Parts 56.7 (2) and 56.7 (d) of the CPR and whether these procedural breaches impact on the claim before the Court.
c. Whether the Claimants have demonstrated adequate locus standi so as to enable them to seek the reliefs claimed.
d. Whether the declaratory relief sought is appropriate in this matter and whether reliefs (4) and (c) in the amended fixed date claim form, are claims based in judicial review and required leave of the Court, before they could have been made.

Determination of the issues

Issue (a)

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/State-wins-against-ILP-278314941.html