January 16, 2021, 08:42:02 PM

Author Topic: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....  (Read 619 times)

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Offline RichGFootball

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LONG POST WARNING

Now I'm certain a number of persons will disagree but the actual information and statistics give serious credibility to having our children remaining active during the pandemic.

There seems to be an incredible willingness to group everyone into a massive bracket of persons most likely to be infected, get sick and (unfortunately) die from COVID-19. However the data that is readily available for everyone and anyone to have access to somehow is either not being considered nor being received. So I'm going to bring to light significant bits of info for all here.

What's also bothering me is the seeming unwillingness of reporters to ask these very serious questions as the lack of activity in children has become a national health crisis in the last 20-30 years.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-byage.html (Updated August 18 2020)
COVID-19 death rates of children below 18 years old ranges between 9-16x lower than the normal
rate.

www.cnbc.com/2020/09/15/the-coronavirus-has-killed-at-least-121-young-people-in-the-us-mostlyminorities-cdc-says.html Tuesday 15th September 2020
121 persons under 21 died due to COVID-19 in the US

www.patientcareonline.com/view/covid-19-update-us-and-global-cases-deaths-and-recoveries-asof-september-21-2020
As of September 21st 2020, the US had 199,525 persons deaths due to COVID-19

So....based on both bits of data... 121/199,525 is 0.0006064403

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7372688/
CONCLUSION
Overall, this review suggests that quarantine is associated with far reaching and significant negative
impact on psychological wellbeing of children and adolescents. Of more concern is the finding that
this negative psychological effect can still be detected months or years later. Stigma has also been
rife in children and families who underwent quarantine. As quarantine is essential to contain
diseases in many cases, it is important that steps and measures are taken to make this experience
less traumatic for vulnerable young people. This can be done by honest and age and
developmentally appropriate communication, ensuring routines and minimizing disruption in
education, encouraging healthy lifestyle, enhancing positive relationship between families,
managing parental stress and incorporation of health promotion activities in school curriculum.
These strategies may ensure that the physical and mental health impact of quarantine on children
and adolescents are kept minimal. Further research to examine long term impact of quarantine and
prolonged school closures on children are urgently needed to guide policies.

www.mentalhealth.org.uk/sites/default/files/scotland-impacts-of-lockdown-summary.pdf
www.mentalhealth.org.uk/publications/impacts-lockdown-mental-health-children-and-youngpeople
Both articles indicate significant mental health and stress issues with children and young people due
to COVID-19 practices of lock-down and quarantine

www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/new-findings-children-mental-health-covid-19
Based on surveys and research done in China, Bangladesh, Spain and Italy highlighted the severe
impact COVID-19 is having on their children and adolescent populations

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.579038/full
The COVID-19 quarantine has affected more than 860 million children and adolescents worldwide,
but to date, no study has been developed within Western countries to examine the psychological
impact on their lives. The present study aims to examine for the first time the emotional impact of
the quarantine on children and adolescents from Italy and Spain, two of the countries most affected
by COVID-19. Participants were 1,143 parents of Italian and Spanish children aged 3 to 18 years
who completed a survey providing information about how the quarantine affects their children and
themselves, compared to before the home confinement. Results show that 85.7% of the parents
perceived changes in their children’s emotional state and behaviors during the quarantine. The most
frequent symptoms were difficulty concentrating (76.6%), boredom (52%), irritability (39%),
restlessness (38.8%), nervousness (38%), feelings of loneliness (31.3%), uneasiness (30.4%), and
worries (30.1%). Spanish parents reported more symptoms than Italians. As expected, children of
both countries used monitors more frequently, spent less time doing physical activity, and slept
more hours during the quarantine. Furthermore, when family coexistence during quarantine became
more difficult, the situation was more serious, and the level of stress was higher, parents tended to
report more emotional problems in their children. The quarantine impacts considerably on Italian
and Spanish youth, reinforcing the need to detect children with problems as early as possible to
improve their psychological well-being.

www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/infections-and-poisoning/coronavirus-covid-19/
healthy-living/coronavirus-covid-19-physical-activity
(26th October 2020)
Being active outdoors
If you don't have any coronavirus symptoms, you can go outdoors to be active as much as you like
throughout the day.
Walking, jogging or cycling are a great way to be active and get some fresh air and sunlight.
Non contact and contact sports are permitted for under 18s only indoors and outdoors. Over 18s
can't currently take part in group physical activity indoors or outdoors.
Field bubbles are created to allow under-18s to be active in contact sports but all participants should
physically distance when off the field of play and should follow strict hygiene rules.
To find out more visit Sport Scotland for specific sport guidance.

www.athleticsireland.ie/news/coronavirus-covid-19-update/
Ireland regulations per COVID-19 and sport

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid#case-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-by-age
www.statista.com/statistics/1105596/covid-19-mortality-rate-by-age-group-in-spain-march/
Based on the graph provided, the risk for anyone 19 and under dying is practically 0%.

www.who.int/news/item/25-11-2020-every-move-counts-towards-better-health-says-who
W.H.O. on physical activity

www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/COVID-19/Pages/Why-Cloth-Face-Coverings-are-Needed-in-Youth-Sports-During-COVID-19.aspx
From the American Academy of Pediatrics

Here are my questions. Feel free to add.

1. *Statement* It is understood that the Ministry of Health (GOTT) has mandated no contact
sport participation.

2. Has the Government of Trinidad and Tobago (GOTT) conducted or has been conducting any
research specific to the effect of the Coronavirus Pandemic on children and adolescent age
groups?

3. Is there any indication that persons under the age of 18 are the main perpetrators of the
spreading of Coronavirus? If yes, please present the pertinent the data. If no, please state, to
the best of your knowledge of the data, how those persons got infected.

4. Based on the information from the CDC (US) and W.H.O. what is the major concern with
persons under 18 participating in contact sport?

5. Please list the contact sports that are banned or suspended under the current regulations:

(football, netball, basketball, field hockey, karate (judo, mixed martial arts), rugby, boxing,
volleyball, handball, futsal, cricket, water polo, athletics, cycling, gyms* (fitness), horse
racing (there may be more, please wait for their answer).

6. What are the current regulations in terms of group settings?

7. Do those regulations also apply to groups that would like to take part in contact sports? If
yes/no, explain based on the data from the CDC, W.H.O and countries who have insisted
that youth participation in contact sport (sport in general) must continue, such as US,
England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Australia, China.

8. Based on the research and data provided, children and adolescents are being severely
affected by the current Coronavirus Pandemic and the measures that have been undertaken
by multiple governments around the world. What has the GOTT implemented to help those
persons who may be experiencing significant mental challenges and stress due in part to the
regulations and information being given distributed by the GOTT (quarantine, lock-down,
social (physical) distance, stay home, etc.)?

9. Has the GOTT given any thought to reversing the ban or suspension of contact sport
especially for children and adolescents based on the data provided by the CDC and W.H.O?

10. A directive has been given by the GOTT to resume national athlete and team training for
senior teams. Why not the junior teams if the risk to persons in those age groups is low?

11. Specifically speaking, football is most likely the sport with the highest level of youth
participation (N.B. athletics is a multiple sport discipline better known as Track and Field) in
Trinidad and Tobago. Grouped together with all team sports, approximately 60-70% of
children and adolescents are being affected negatively, as their main source of physical
activity is not available. Additionally, available data on children who stop being physically
active for extended periods of time are less likely to return to participation in an active
lifestyle. Has the GOTT taken this into account with the ban on contact sport?

12. Has the GOTT been able to determine the capability of the non-contact NSO’s and NGO’s
to absorb none/some/most/all of the children and adolescents who have been left without
their regular sport participation environment?

13. Is the GOTT addressing this particular situation actively with all NSO’s, NGO’s and local
regional government organisations and the THA?

14. Is there any data being collected that the GOTT can share per the increase/decrease of all
persons actively exercising due to the Coronavirus? This information should also include
children and adolescents who cannot participate in sport due to the contact sport ban but are
exercising otherwise.

15. Has the GOTT estimated the cost to the local sporting fraternity of both lock-downs and the
subsequent ban on contact sport (all age groups)?

16. What strategic plan/plan does the GOTT have to rebuild sport and participation of sport in
Trinidad and Tobago?

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Offline maxg

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2020, 09:50:29 PM »
Only issue I see at present RG. The kids don’t live in a bubble. Parents, Grandparents, community is especially an issue in any such sporting environment. Kids developing immune system are quite strong and adaptive, yet they can be the largest group of carriers of flu type viruses, as developed thought on care and hygiene is still in lower development stages. They are good today, but we can’t even get many developed adults to take the proper precautions during this pandemic . Still I do hope some type of new normal arrangement can be organized sooner than later.

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2020, 10:55:56 PM »
Only issue I see at present RG. The kids don’t live in a bubble. Parents, Grandparents, community is especially an issue in any such sporting environment. Kids developing immune system are quite strong and adaptive, yet they can be the largest group of carriers of flu type viruses, as developed thought on care and hygiene is still in lower development stages. They are good today, but we can’t even get many developed adults to take the proper precautions during this pandemic . Still I do hope some type of new normal arrangement can be organized sooner than later.

No they don't live in a bubble. However, again the data is indicating the children aren't really getting COVID-19 from other children. They're getting it from their own households, so it's mother, father, big brother or big sis who are going to work, supermarkets, barbershop and beauty salons, etc. Additionally, parents aren't really allowing children to go see their grandpa and grandma (I expect disagreements but with children doing on-line learning, many don't need to go by grandparents to do school work). I'm watching that 1st hand. The suggestion of an all-out ban of contact sport doesn't allow children to develop their immune systems either and this is even worse as they're now going to be susceptible to other strains of communicable viruses and bacteria. Scientifically, logically and financially, this decision lacks clarity of thought and careful analysis of the impact this kind of action places solely on a child.

I recently came across two other documents
PA West Return to Play Guidelines - a very detailed document concerning youth soccer and covid-19

2nd Document
COVID-19 in Youth Soccer

Andrew M. Watson, MD, MS,1
 Kristin Haraldsdottir, PhD,1
 Kevin Biese, MS,2
 Leslie Goodavish, PA,1
Bethany Stevens,2
 Timothy McGuine, PhD, LAT1
From the Department of Orthopedics and Rehabilitation,1
University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, Madison, WI, and
The Department of Kinesiology,2 University of Wisconsin – Madison

Conclusions: The incidence of COVID-19 among youth soccer athletes is relatively low when compared to
the background incidence among children in the United States and the local general population. No
relationship was identified between club COVID-19 incidence and phase of return to soccer. Youth soccer
clubs universally report implementing a number of risk reduction procedures.
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Offline maxg

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2020, 04:25:23 AM »
I will see if the boss has a contribution.
I can tell you Quebec has been hardest hit in Canada, most deaths even with hospitality have been the aged most of the ICU sick other than aged, ppl with underlying chronic issues. 
My neighborhood son show symptoms- believe caught at school, the school stayed open, yellow zone, few symptoms. Of course the kid quarantine, his mom and sister started feeling the early symptoms (she’s a nurse instructor) They all quarantined for 2 weeks,3 days later the boy (5) started being back to normal, with no fever, active, etc, daughter no fever, Monther kidney stones... ambulance called rushed to hospital, police came as neighbors couldn’t yet stay with kids, the police stood outside at the door for 2 hrs while the dad drove from Ontario where he works. The mother had the procedure and back home 2 days, still in quarantine. Student nurse curriculum delayed as she recovered and further quarantined.
Aged COVID free neighborhood couldn’t assist. We here are dealing with more diseases, illnesses, and deaths..got to make a run.. will be back.

Add: The boss agrees with you, as far as Tobago - her short answer (during a 5 am turn)- Ventilation and living accommodations is much better - fewer apartments, etc, different environmental and weather restrictive communities, less influx and spread of cases due to fewer external travelers and in transit numbers, better government-controlled monitoring and ppl awareness, thus easier to control. Way fewer cases and extended community spread that would cause widespread infections. Children should and can be active outside.

I guess my paranoia is due to my experience and environment, as I see it just take a few, and we have more contact with known hotspots and influx of carriers that are more difficult to monitor. My concern may be due to my more aged contacts.

Sounds like you should appeal. Go ofr it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 05:08:04 AM by maxg »

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 05:06:09 AM »
I will see if the boss has a contribution.
I can tell you Quebec has been hardest hit in Canada, most deaths even with hospitality have been the aged most of the icu sick other than aged, ppl with underlying chronic  issues. 
My neighborhood son show symptoms- believe caught at school, the school stayed open, yellow zone, few symptoms. Of course the kid quarantine , his mom and sister started feeling the early symptoms (she’s a nurse instructor) They all quarantine 2 weeks,3 days later the boy (5) started being back to normal, no fever, active etc, daughter no fever, Monther kidney stones... ambulance called rushed to hospital, police came as neighbours couldn’t yet stay with kids, the police stood outside at the  door for 2 hrs while the dad drove from Ontario where he works. The mother had procedure and back home 2 days, stil quarantine. Student nurse curriculum delayed as she recovered and further quarantine.
Aged COVID free neighborhood couldn’t assist. We are dealing with more diseases, illnesses and deaths..got to make a run.. will be back

Trust me when I say.... it was closer to me that I thought. Close family relatives got it and had to do the quarantine thing.
I'm sure you're familiar with www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coronavirus/situation-coronavirus-in-quebec/#c63035

While I understand there are serious risks, there are risks regardless. Children aren't the drivers of this pandemic... it's the adults. By all logic all adults should stay home but it is what it is. All I'm saying is that children remaining physically active in normal surroundings, based on research and the data available from multiple countries, show little adverse effects to children taking part in contact sport. My very good friend in Rochester, NY has her 2 children taking part in soccer (with stipulated restrictions). There was no stoppage of their youth leagues and few, if any, cases of COVID-19 reported. Of course there will be situations that warrant more oversight but this is based on the numbers that haven't changed from since COVID-19 showed its face.
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Offline maxg

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2020, 05:10:36 AM »
I will see if the boss has a contribution.
I can tell you Quebec has been hardest hit in Canada, most deaths even with hospitality have been the aged most of the icu sick other than aged, ppl with underlying chronic  issues. 
My neighborhood son show symptoms- believe caught at school, the school stayed open, yellow zone, few symptoms. Of course the kid quarantine , his mom and sister started feeling the early symptoms (she’s a nurse instructor) They all quarantine 2 weeks,3 days later the boy (5) started being back to normal, no fever, active etc, daughter no fever, Monther kidney stones... ambulance called rushed to hospital, police came as neighbours couldn’t yet stay with kids, the police stood outside at the  door for 2 hrs while the dad drove from Ontario where he works. The mother had procedure and back home 2 days, stil quarantine. Student nurse curriculum delayed as she recovered and further quarantine.
Aged COVID free neighborhood couldn’t assist. We are dealing with more diseases, illnesses and deaths..got to make a run.. will be back

Trust me when I say.... it was closer to me that I thought. Close family relatives got it and had to do the quarantine thing.
I'm sure you're familiar with www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coronavirus/situation-coronavirus-in-quebec/#c63035

While I understand there are serious risks, there are risks regardless. Children aren't the drivers of this pandemic... it's the adults. By all logic all adults should stay home but it is what it is. All I'm saying is that children remaining physically active in normal surroundings, based on research and the data available from multiple countries, show little adverse effects to children taking part in contact sport. My very good friend in Rochester, NY has her 2 children taking part in soccer (with stipulated restrictions). There was no stoppage of their youth leagues and few, if any, cases of COVID-19 reported. Of course there will be situations that warrant more oversight but this is based on the numbers that haven't changed from since COVID-19 showed its face.
See above addendum. I believe you may be correct. Of Course, with necessary adjustments.

Offline kounty

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2020, 02:56:48 PM »
I think the logic in the argument lil upside down. Fact 1) Children can't drive themselves around so currently parents tell them to stay home and they are home. Fact 2) Children infection rate is lower than adults.
(seems at least partly causal to me).
Suggestion by RG: Let the children come out b/c they 'not getting covid" at high rates ???
Parallel suggestion: line up the kids on a wall and only shoot one in 100 of them.

I think RG's opinion will change if (God forbid) he personally knew somebody who died (or even was hospitalized for) covid.

By summer i think most kids would be vaccinated and life should 'return to normal'.

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2020, 03:39:28 PM »
maxg wrote:

Add: The boss agrees with you, as far as Tobago - her short answer (during a 5 am turn)- Ventilation and living accommodations is much better - fewer apartments, etc, different environmental and weather restrictive communities, less influx and spread of cases due to fewer external travelers and in transit numbers, better government-controlled monitoring and ppl awareness, thus easier to control. Way fewer cases and extended community spread that would cause widespread infections. Children should and can be active outside.


I think the logic in the argument lil upside down. Fact 1) Children can't drive themselves around so currently parents tell them to stay home and they are home. Fact 2) Children infection rate is lower than adults.
(seems at least partly causal to me).
Suggestion by RG: Let the children come out b/c they 'not getting covid" at high rates ???
Parallel suggestion: line up the kids on a wall and only shoot one in 100 of them.

I think RG's opinion will change if (God forbid) he personally knew somebody who died (or even was hospitalized for) covid.

By summer i think most kids would be vaccinated and life should 'return to normal'.

And at what point is it upside down? What I presented isn't based on my opinion. It's based on the current data being presented from multiple countries, including China and the badly affected US, Great Britain, Spain and Italy. This information is being used to determine if it is safe, using the necessary precautions, for children to return to their normal and usual sport setting. And for what it's worth, I know of at least two persons who died from COVID-19 related illness (and I already mentioned earlier close family members had to go into quarantine for COVID-19). Had a convo with a good friend of mine based on the west coast and he was explaining the measures put in place. I do not think it's that difficult to analyse the data and realise the current conclusion of children staying at home and becoming static is not good for them and not good for society.
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Offline asylumseeker

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"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2020, 07:11:29 AM »
The Salvadoran approach.

Happens as we enter pretty much anywhere....except the spraying of the shoes.
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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2020, 08:25:31 AM »
The Salvadoran approach.

Happens as we enter pretty much anywhere....except the spraying of the shoes.

Transporting of the players by the league. Collective movement.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2021, 03:44:57 PM »
Friday 1st January 2020

Trinidad Guardian (Tobago Today)

Time to reconsider ban on contact sport

The statistics don’t lie. A study of 40,000 children in Iceland showed that children and adolescents are half as likely to be infected by or transmit the coronavirus to others. In fact, based on data from the Centre for Disease Control (CDC), the likelihood of someone 14 and under and 24 and under losing their life to coronavirus is between 0.0003395935% and 0.0019449447% respectively.

In Quebec, Canada, elementary schools were re-opened in early May 2020 and all schools in September. Their research has shown persons under 20 years old make up 0.0% of all deaths in the province.
In China, Spain, Italy, England, Ireland, Canada, the United States and Australia, the children are playing all versions of sport. Not in Trinidad and Tobago though.

Contact sport participation makes up approximately 60-70% (possibly up to 80%) of children and adolescents in Trinidad and Tobago, who are physically active in sport. The ill-advised ban of contact sport has now created an impending national health crisis, as inactive children and adolescents are less likely to become or stay physically active in later life and eventually add significant pressures on the national health care system due to obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, fragile bone density and yes, the ability to fight off coronavirus. In addition, research and data from the Pakistan Journal of Medicine, American Academy of Paediatrics, Mental Health UK, Frontiers in Psychology and Psychiatric Times show how mentally draining and challenging lockdowns and quarantines have been on children from all over the world. In T&T, the psychological effects of ‘wear a mask, stay at home and social (physical) distancing’ are now resulting in zesser vs wesser and the police being told to be in ‘Carnival mode of operations’ for Old Year’s into New Year’s Day.

The Government of T&T, seemingly, has not quantified the mental and physical effects on children and adolescents nor the financial fallout from the lack of sport, as there is no national data being brought forward highlighting these areas of concern. What we do know is that the basis of instituting the ban on contact sport with children and adolescents is flawed, based on multiple countries’ approach utilising the scientific data provided by World Health Organisation, CDC and multiple other health organisations around the world. It is therefore imperative that the Ministry of Health seriously reconsider its position, as our children’s and society’s well-being depends on it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 03:46:28 PM by RichGFootball »
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Offline maxg

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2021, 07:23:20 PM »
Some criticism from the boss.
Emphasis should be placed on type of sport and focusing on outdoor activities.
Football etc. fine. Judo indoor etc, not good.

Although very low likelihood of mortality in kids , it is not clear that the risk of transmission to adults/aged is not a concern.

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2021, 03:33:03 AM »
Some criticism from the boss.
Emphasis should be placed on type of sport and focusing on outdoor activities.
Football etc. fine. Judo indoor etc, not good.

Although very low likelihood of mortality in kids , it is not clear that the risk of transmission to adults/aged is not a concern.

Now I can understand the concern for some sports. This isn't lost on me (I used to do karate so I really do understand). However, it lacks foresight to say contact sport has the inability to make adjustments and work with certain regulations. This is what's bothering me the most. They broad-brushed all contact sport and children taking part in those sports while seemingly disregarding the actual health of the children in all of this. Worse yet, few questions are asked about the well being of the children, and when I say few.... I mean a few. So on the surface the aim is to control the spread, while creating the environment for children to become more susceptible to getting sick.

I would also expect the same precautions would be taken as COVID-19 is still communicable via secondary, tertiary or greater contact.

Also key to note.... based on seasonal patterns, Canada and US are expected to have more severe COVID-19 numbers due to the peak flu winter months.

The letter was written based on all the research I've done including data from the CDC and Iceland's most recent study.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm updated to Dec 30th 2020
14 and under - 0.0003381077, 24 and under - 0.0019391472 (calculated overall mortality numbers for each age group divided by total deaths)

www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/we-now-know-how-much-children-spread-coronavirus/ Iceland study of 40,000 children.

www.sportsdestinations.com/management/health/scientific-studies-youth-soccer-show-low-or-no-ris-19504 Sheds light on COVID-19 and soccer environments
* (Side note: Every club, without exception, reported having a formal COVID-19 plan in place to reduce risk)

For the sake of balance.. www.aspenprojectplay.org/coronavirus-and-youth-sports/reports/2020/10/27/experts-dismiss-survey-claiming-no-extra-risk-of-virus-through-sports

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/playing-sports.html Is the Min. of Health saying we cannot follow these protocols?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 04:33:18 AM by RichGFootball »
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Offline maxg

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2021, 12:21:36 PM »
So here's mt thoughts. Little more concerned, probably due to my mom amd my own age..
 I for exercise and training, as a matter of fact, my sons have been training since Last February, without competition to now. Without a pool most of the time.-All public pools close. By Zoom, and on their own, 2 to 3 times a day, in between online course. Pool opened with restrictions for ppl and time, 45 mins session, one got 8 swims in the last 3 mths, the other 2. But they keeps training daily, motivated by their coaches and us, and most importantly themselves - cause we taught them it's all about them - as Olympic trials is scheduled for April and at 22 and 23 by the time following, they want to get on with the rest of his life. Their only regret they can't train together, as they are separated by distance. Besides that, they may not even be invited to attend even if there is a meet, and between us, although I am pretty certain given the situation and current rankings, they probably won't make either a Canada or TT Olympic team, I don't discourage them, because I am happy and proud they giving it their best shot under the circumstances, even though they blank me from coaching them.   :D

If can be done with proper care and safety I all for it, but after spending 6 weeks in hospital and surviving with something more predictable than covid, and hearing the boss describe the state of some of the worse cases. I praying nobody have to see a paramedic for a bust toe kicking stone.

I can tell you for a fact, that pre Zone red levels, we were still calm, hospital and staff managed - although some hospital staff became infected - as schools started  reopening in September whereas some part of the provinces were yellow and green. Even before, May, June, for example Regional Soccer associations opened with a plan in line with Provincial guidelines which were even more stringent that the CDC recommended guidelines (remember Quebec at the time was hardest hit - still is), we were getting 100 cases a day and bawling. The sporting Assocs say we got to get the kids out, they not as affected, parents needed a break from parenting and trying to adjust to situations(many unemployed, some layoff, some work from home) as well.
Nb. dates and timeline below.

 Then Boom, second wave and everywhere went red, I know quite a few kids and teachers contracted the virus, and brought it home (have a story bout meh nice good-looking single mom neighbor). All hospital scrambled to prepare for increase in cases, whereas in the earlies 3 hospitals were assigned as centres, now we having 2000 + cases a day, and that is with lockdown , overwhelmed-  Only Groceries and Pharmacies open, for the last month. The hospitals are overwhelmed and of course no visit nor walk-in's. The deaths at present is not just the aged, where staff shortage became detrimental, but the inability of the general hospitals to keep ppl alive due to increased number of cases, lack of space, equipment etc... before we had ICU handling Covid cases, now we have COvid Wards on Covid Floors. There is not enough staff to cover the amount of beds, leading to more mortality rates etc...besides other factors like fatigue errors, misdiagnosis, severity of arrivals from their homes, decreased transport, increase in multiple cases at the same home etc...Crazy stuff. See deaths by age in report below (July 14,2020).
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-in-quebec-a-timeline-of-key-dates-and-events-1.4892912
(Jan'1,2021)
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-in-quebec-a-look-back-at-2020-the-year-of-the-novel-coronavirus-1.5250587

So here's my question, Let's say y'all full open up sports, within the rules like us (nb: Iceland have even less cases and deaths than TT - besides how many ppl from the most infected countries travel back to Iceland as compared to travelers to TT from those most infected countries, recognizing USA , Canada, India and western Europe as hotspots.)
 sidetracked, back to my question :Let's say y'all full open within CDC sporting guidelines (nb at present our CDC guidelines is LOCKDOWN, essential services only, everything closed ), and there is some minor spread, based on the scramble that was made for 1st wave and very decent preparedness actions taken, Do you think that Hospitals in Trinidad &/or Tobago can handle the rapid attack and increased casualties, that will come with a 2nd wave, which has proven to overwhelm and taken over this part of the continent ?

If you think with an increase in activity that the spread and increase of cases will never overwhelm your system to that extent, then by all means proceed. Where we are, we have to proceed on the side of caution, and try to make do with what we have and can do. Non ah we going for no run in no snow, telling weself is beach or sandtrack, but we could. Mammy get Treadmill, rowing machine and weights. I find lilman looking more like a WWF rep than ah fighter fish, buh wha I know, I's only daddie  ;D

Nb: the CDC guidelines have been constantly and consistently changed to try to preclude scenarios based on a current situation that then becomes history.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 12:30:53 PM by maxg »

Offline RichGFootball

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Re: I'm advocating for the return of contact sport for U18 children....
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2021, 03:25:53 PM »
So here's mt thoughts. Little more concerned, probably due to my mom amd my own age..
 I for exercise and training, as a matter of fact, my sons have been training since Last February, without competition to now. Without a pool most of the time.-All public pools close. By Zoom, and on their own, 2 to 3 times a day, in between online course. Pool opened with restrictions for ppl and time, 45 mins session, one got 8 swims in the last 3 mths, the other 2. But they keeps training daily, motivated by their coaches and us, and most importantly themselves - cause we taught them it's all about them - as Olympic trials is scheduled for April and at 22 and 23 by the time following, they want to get on with the rest of his life. Their only regret they can't train together, as they are separated by distance. Besides that, they may not even be invited to attend even if there is a meet, and between us, although I am pretty certain given the situation and current rankings, they probably won't make either a Canada or TT Olympic team, I don't discourage them, because I am happy and proud they giving it their best shot under the circumstances, even though they blank me from coaching them.   :D

If can be done with proper care and safety I all for it, but after spending 6 weeks in hospital and surviving with something more predictable than covid, and hearing the boss describe the state of some of the worse cases. I praying nobody have to see a paramedic for a bust toe kicking stone.

I can tell you for a fact, that pre Zone red levels, we were still calm, hospital and staff managed - although some hospital staff became infected - as schools started  reopening in September whereas some part of the provinces were yellow and green. Even before, May, June, for example Regional Soccer associations opened with a plan in line with Provincial guidelines which were even more stringent that the CDC recommended guidelines (remember Quebec at the time was hardest hit - still is), we were getting 100 cases a day and bawling. The sporting Assocs say we got to get the kids out, they not as affected, parents needed a break from parenting and trying to adjust to situations(many unemployed, some layoff, some work from home) as well.
Nb. dates and timeline below.

 Then Boom, second wave and everywhere went red, I know quite a few kids and teachers contracted the virus, and brought it home (have a story bout meh nice good-looking single mom neighbor). All hospital scrambled to prepare for increase in cases, whereas in the earlies 3 hospitals were assigned as centres, now we having 2000 + cases a day, and that is with lockdown , overwhelmed-  Only Groceries and Pharmacies open, for the last month. The hospitals are overwhelmed and of course no visit nor walk-in's. The deaths at present is not just the aged, where staff shortage became detrimental, but the inability of the general hospitals to keep ppl alive due to increased number of cases, lack of space, equipment etc... before we had ICU handling Covid cases, now we have COvid Wards on Covid Floors. There is not enough staff to cover the amount of beds, leading to more mortality rates etc...besides other factors like fatigue errors, misdiagnosis, severity of arrivals from their homes, decreased transport, increase in multiple cases at the same home etc...Crazy stuff. See deaths by age in report below (July 14,2020).
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-in-quebec-a-timeline-of-key-dates-and-events-1.4892912
(Jan'1,2021)
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-in-quebec-a-look-back-at-2020-the-year-of-the-novel-coronavirus-1.5250587

So here's my question, Let's say y'all full open up sports, within the rules like us (nb: Iceland have even less cases and deaths than TT - besides how many ppl from the most infected countries travel back to Iceland as compared to travelers to TT from those most infected countries, recognizing USA , Canada, India and western Europe as hotspots.)
 sidetracked, back to my question :Let's say y'all full open within CDC sporting guidelines (nb at present our CDC guidelines is LOCKDOWN, essential services only, everything closed ), and there is some minor spread, based on the scramble that was made for 1st wave and very decent preparedness actions taken, Do you think that Hospitals in Trinidad &/or Tobago can handle the rapid attack and increased casualties, that will come with a 2nd wave, which has proven to overwhelm and taken over this part of the continent ?

If you think with an increase in activity that the spread and increase of cases will never overwhelm your system to that extent, then by all means proceed. Where we are, we have to proceed on the side of caution, and try to make do with what we have and can do. Non ah we going for no run in no snow, telling weself is beach or sandtrack, but we could. Mammy get Treadmill, rowing machine and weights. I find lilman looking more like a WWF rep than ah fighter fish, buh wha I know, I's only daddie  ;D

Nb: the CDC guidelines have been constantly and consistently changed to try to preclude scenarios based on a current situation that then becomes history.

Aight. The best conversation I've had about this....Thankfully.

My mom and dad are 69 and 80 respectively and my wife is asthmatic, so I'm very aware of one day of being careful can turn into calamity, but I still have to move around. I'll do what I can to stay safe and that's the best I can do.

What your sons are doing is essentially what I would like to happen. Guided training session overseen by their coaches with adherence to health and safety protocols. it isn't a lot to say....ok... what can be done. It's more a case of nothing is being done.

In other words, nothing has been tried except the ban and if I'm correct, the Minister of Health never said anything about Coronavirus spreading through children playing. Our biggest area of concern has been returning nationals and zesser (but not wesser) parties as super spreader events. There was little discussion about the general election being the super spreader event but I digress.

Now I'm not saying open full. I expect some restrictions. What I'm saying is simple. We're gone through 2 lockdowns with neither of them because of children and adolescent spread. The majority of evidence is showing our youngest are able to social (physical) distance, wear a mask and generally understand the rules and regulations. Many have not visited G-ma and G-pa because the regulations said not to. The vast majority of coaches understand the risk of a child being sick and attending training and tend to already have a plan of action for that. Let's not keep the children and adolescents at home to be home frustrated and wondering what happens next. Slowly but surely, re-introduce them to the 'normal' way to train. If given the opportunity, coaches will do what is necessary to ensure the safety of the players under their supervision. However, the action to literally stop contact sports has eliminated 60-70% of all persons under 18 being physically active through sport. *I did a rough estimate per Tobago primary and secondary schools and it is possible that approx 1,500 children cannot have football training. This is only football. Netball, basketball, swimming, all martial arts and more being added that number could balloon to 2,500. Even the police clubs had to pull back all activities. Too many idle and stressed children we are not addressing.

Based on all the info I currently have at my disposal, if the children and adolescent population are not at serious risk of getting so sick they require being hospitalised, we should seriously explore having them return to even the basic levels of team training. It doesn't seem as though any healthcare system has been tipped or function under significant levels of stress sue to children and adolescents becoming sick. My basic street level view is that the Trinidad and Tobago healthcare system will be ok. This might even encourage adults to become active again as they could now drop their child and go for a walk (might be their only opportunity to get exercise) as many would have been doing anyhow. Remember, when the children are home parents must keep them in account.

I do not want anyone here to believe I'm advocating for full blown Speyside vs Guaya matches. Let's look at how we can apply regulations and detail a plan of action. Start locally and over time, assess, re-assess, then re-assess again. But this madness of literally putting a halt to possibly 60-70% of all children and adolescents being active through contact sport with no inclining of a solution being worked on is a danger within itself, in the short and long term. And again I ask....why aren't our sport leaders questioning this logic when there seem to be multiple templates for youth sport to return in measured capacities?

*CDC information changing on a regular basis is true. However some data has either showed certain trends have are variable (infection rates) or steadied (children/adolescent mortality rates).
Trinidad and Tobago 1st
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Everyone else is 2nd