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Who's better Champions League or World Cup

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Author Topic: Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate  (Read 1174 times)

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Offline Flex

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Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:10:53 AM »
Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate.
Posted by Gabriele Marcotti (soccernet)


Maybe there was a time, years ago, when things were different. But no more.

If you want the very best teams in the world, the highest expression of the sport, you don't look to the World Cup. It's the Champions League that matters.

It's not a knock on the World Cup. There are, obviously, a whole range of emotions that the biggest sporting event in the universe (yes, it is -- sorry, IOC) engenders. There is nothing like it.

But it stopped being the gold standard in the 1990s, once the Bosman rule was introduced and the world's wealthiest were able to hoard as much talent as they liked, a process only accelerated by the ever-increasing gap between haves and have-nots.

It's remarkable that we even need to argue about it.

Teams exists in two states. They are collections of individuals. And they are collectives that transcend and surpass the sum of their parts.

By both measures, there is no real comparison between the Champions League and the World Cup.

A national team can call upon the very best players from that nation. A club side can try to sign anybody on the planet. As long as there were limits on foreigners and as long as resources were more spread out -- meaning there were more clubs capable of hanging on to top talent -- there was still a debate to be had. Now there really isn't.

There is no polite way of saying this, so I'll just get on with it: Lucas Biglia, Enzo Perez, Sergio Romero, Miroslav Klose, Christoph Kramer and Benny Howedes all started in the World Cup final. How many of them would have come close to the starting XIs of Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid last year?

You want to extend it to the losing semifinalists? You want to talk how guys like Julio Cesar or Fred or Georginio Wijnaldum or Dirk Kuyt or Jasper Cillessen might fit in at Chelsea or Bayern?

No?

Didn't think so.

If you coach a superclub -- a Real Madrid or a Bayern or a Chelsea -- and you need, say, a centre-forward, then you go and buy one. If you're the coach of Germany -- and bear in mind, we're taking about one of the richest, biggest and deepest footballing nations around -- then you're stuck with whoever has a German passport: 36-year-old Klose, or injured Mario Gomez, or Lukas Podolski who can't get off the bench at Arsenal, or clunky Stefan Kiessling.

And that speaks to that other fundamental difference, the one that goes beyond individuals. Club sides are built, whether via the transfer market or on the training pitch. National teams are assembled with the parts you have. It's like opening that flatpack from IKEA and hoping the parts you need are all there, except some mad seditious employee has mixed and matched the screws and bolts.

It's a different skill, and a no less important one. In fact, you could argue it's a better test of a coach to figure out and implement a system that allows him to get his best guys on the pitch and functioning coherently.

Louis van Gaal at the World Cup is the epitome of this. The devoted 4-3-3 guy realizes his defenders aren't particularly good so he designs a 3-5-2 to get them help (strength in numbers). He realizes his wing-backs are getting burned, so, depending on where the danger comes from -- and depending on the opponent -- he finds room for Kuyt, who is 34 and spent much of his career as a striker but, crucially, has the intelligence and work rate to snuff out danger.

Champions League managers, on the other hand, rarely have to make those choices. And when they do, they don't do it to the same extent. But if what you care about is the outcome on the pitch, then it's really no contest.

Club sides -- good ones -- have an identity and a philosophy that national teams don't have. Managers have the luxury of starting with a vision and then pursuing it. And it's not just a question of being able to add to the team. They're generally not stuck with resident superstars who must play at all costs but don't fit what they're trying to do; if they have the charisma and pedigree, they can simply move them on.

Most importantly, they work with their players for nine months out of the year. Repetition builds chemistry, which brings fluidity. Whether it's set plays or tactical schemes or basic movements, there is no substitute for teammates working together four times a week in training and playing together twice a week in games.

Contrast this with a national team coach. What does he get? A couple of days four or five times a season, plus a three-week training camp every other year (if his country gets to the World Cup and whatever continental championship applies).

That's why what you get in the Champions League is a proper team. And what you get in the World Cup is a temporary collaboration. It doesn't make the World Cup any less special or compelling a spectacle. But it does mean that, if you're a purist, there's really no contest.

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline Peong

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Re: Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2014, 11:57:14 AM »
"Nobody cries for the champions league anthem."

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 11:14:57 AM »
"Nobody cries for the champions league anthem."

 :beermug: :beermug: :beermug:

Some people lose perspective when they write about this - the passion in the International cup finals will never be rivalled by club football for me.

Offline Peong

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Re: Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 09:03:52 PM »
I saw espn fc when they debated this point with "Gabe" and it didn't go so well for him.
The panelists were laughing at him.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2014, 02:55:27 AM »
Quote
Louis van Gaal at the World Cup is the epitome of this. The devoted 4-3-3 guy realizes his defenders aren't particularly good so he designs a 3-5-2 to get them help (strength in numbers). He realizes his wing-backs are getting burned, so, depending on where the danger comes from -- and depending on the opponent -- he finds room for Kuyt, who is 34 and spent much of his career as a striker but, crucially, has the intelligence and work rate to snuff out danger.

Champions League managers, on the other hand, rarely have to make those choices.
And when they do, they don't do it to the same extent. But if what you care about is the outcome on the pitch, then it's really no contest.

Club sides -- good ones -- have an identity and a philosophy that national teams don't have. Managers have the luxury of starting with a vision and then pursuing it. And it's not just a question of being able to add to the team. They're generally not stuck with resident superstars who must play at all costs but don't fit what they're trying to do; if they have the charisma and pedigree, they can simply move them on.

I don't find this to be particularly compelling.

Also, there are items he leaves unaddressed ... what about the CL draw top to bottom? Solely evaluating the quality of clubs at the top end distorts the picture.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Time to end the Champions League vs. World Cup debate
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2014, 03:00:46 AM »
I saw espn fc when they debated this point with "Gabe" and it didn't go so well for him.
The panelists were laughing at him.


His contributions are typically insightful (especially when discussing Italy) and reflective of his connections in football ... but I could see that happening. Wish I had seen it.

 

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