April 16, 2024, 04:19:05 PM

Author Topic: Five T&T U-20s set for Europe; but Central vows to fight agent for Levi Garcia  (Read 15524 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bally

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1552
    • View Profile


Thanks, Elan.  However, I do believe that young players (particularly one as talented as Levi) are very capable of playing professional football and represent T&T. My concern is sending players overseas before they are mature enough to deal with the massive changes. Even for kids to move away inside their own country is very disorientating. I have spoken to England internationals who moved from North of England to London at age 16 and nearly gave up because they were homesick. Do not forget that these kids can be bullied or even victims of racism from other kids.   


I like that comment because these agents don’t accommodate these youngster when they go overseas a lot of them cannot and mean cannot handle themselves overseas if the adult players find it difficult just imagine the young ones. Also these guys don’t understand what a contract is, they could be dealing with one agent if a next man come and say I have a trial for you they gone. Also Trinidad players have a bad name out there a lot of agents wouldn’t touch them.
Empty barrels make the most noise

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18647
    • View Profile
Also Trinidad players have a bad name out there a lot of agents wouldn’t touch them.

How is this so? give an example.

Offline Bally

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1552
    • View Profile
can't give names however there is a reason some not going Europe and have to go Asia that’s all I could say.
Empty barrels make the most noise

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Central will lose in this matter regarding Garcia!  I am not questioning their intent when initiating the contract in any way.  However from an objective standpoint, without the brother having being legally appointed as guardian or given legal power of attorney for the parents this contract will not stand in a court of law.  Sosa ketch allyuh wid allyuh pants dong!!  Sorry CFC but this will be a necessary lesson so as to avoid any such issues in the future.

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Central will lose in this matter regarding Garcia!  I am not questioning their intent when initiating the contract in any way.  However from an objective standpoint, without the brother having being legally appointed as guardian or given legal power of attorney for the parents this contract will not stand in a court of law.  Sosa ketch allyuh wid allyuh pants dong!!  Sorry CFC but this will be a necessary lesson so as to avoid any such issues in the future.

Lessons will be learned by all parties. Lot's of people have spoken about employing minors, appointing guardians etc, but nobody, not one person, has yet to show me a law, rule, regulation that says otherwise.

The 2005 T&T Child Labour Review says : Trinidad and Tobago, after consultation with the social partners, has determined a minimum age for admission to employment or work at age 16. I cannot find any amendment to this law. There is no FIFA rules been broken and no Pro League rules. Regarding guardians (if it is even applicable) there are no Pro League or FIFA rules and the T&T 2012 Childrens Act says : Guardian – any person who has, in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child, responsibility for the child.  I'm willing, if it reaches that far, to go to court for someone to prove that Daniel Garcia had no cognizance of Levi's situation.

But, it is clear that the TTFA need to look at this situation and make suitable adjustments to ensure all parties are suitably protected. 

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Central will lose in this matter regarding Garcia!  I am not questioning their intent when initiating the contract in any way.  However from an objective standpoint, without the brother having being legally appointed as guardian or given legal power of attorney for the parents this contract will not stand in a court of law.  Sosa ketch allyuh wid allyuh pants dong!!  Sorry CFC but this will be a necessary lesson so as to avoid any such issues in the future.

Lessons will be learned by all parties. Lot's of people have spoken about employing minors, appointing guardians etc, but nobody, not one person, has yet to show me a law, rule, regulation that says otherwise.

The 2005 T&T Child Labour Review says : Trinidad and Tobago, after consultation with the social partners, has determined a minimum age for admission to employment or work at age 16. I cannot find any amendment to this law. There is no FIFA rules been broken and no Pro League rules. Regarding guardians (if it is even applicable) there are no Pro League or FIFA rules and the T&T 2012 Childrens Act says : Guardian – any person who has, in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child, responsibility for the child.  I'm willing, if it reaches that far, to go to court for someone to prove that Daniel Garcia had no cognizance of Levi's situation.

But, it is clear that the TTFA need to look at this situation and make suitable adjustments to ensure all parties are suitably protected. 
That responsible for the child part is de sword that will dice allyuh up.  The question that the court will have to address is how can anyone outside of the child's 2 living parents be deemed "legally" responsible for said child?  Do you all have any tangible proof of the parents giving Daniel the power to endorse the agreement on their behalf?  If not I imagine the judge will say something along the lines of "the document needed to be endorsed by the parents.  Having a more experienced family member look at it to make sure it was a legitimate document isn't an issue but without legal power to do so, their signature does not render the agreement valid" 

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Central will lose in this matter regarding Garcia!  I am not questioning their intent when initiating the contract in any way.  However from an objective standpoint, without the brother having being legally appointed as guardian or given legal power of attorney for the parents this contract will not stand in a court of law.  Sosa ketch allyuh wid allyuh pants dong!!  Sorry CFC but this will be a necessary lesson so as to avoid any such issues in the future.

Lessons will be learned by all parties. Lot's of people have spoken about employing minors, appointing guardians etc, but nobody, not one person, has yet to show me a law, rule, regulation that says otherwise.

The 2005 T&T Child Labour Review says : Trinidad and Tobago, after consultation with the social partners, has determined a minimum age for admission to employment or work at age 16. I cannot find any amendment to this law. There is no FIFA rules been broken and no Pro League rules. Regarding guardians (if it is even applicable) there are no Pro League or FIFA rules and the T&T 2012 Childrens Act says : Guardian – any person who has, in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child, responsibility for the child.  I'm willing, if it reaches that far, to go to court for someone to prove that Daniel Garcia had no cognizance of Levi's situation.

But, it is clear that the TTFA need to look at this situation and make suitable adjustments to ensure all parties are suitably protected. 
That responsible for the child part is de sword that will dice allyuh up.  The question that the court will have to address is how can anyone outside of the child's 2 living parents be deemed "legally" responsible for said child?  Do you all have any tangible proof of the parents giving Daniel the power to endorse the agreement on their behalf?  If not I imagine the judge will say something along the lines of "the document needed to be endorsed by the parents.  Having a more experienced family member look at it to make sure it was a legitimate document isn't an issue but without legal power to do so, their signature does not render the agreement valid" 

It does not ask for legal responsibility, it says in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child  The courts opinion is not based on any laws, because none (to my knowledge)  have been broken. It's a moot point anyway, because as far as I can discover, a 16 year old can take employment without his parents permission.

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
It does not ask for legal responsibility, it says in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child  The courts opinion is not based on any laws, because none (to my knowledge)  have been broken. It's a moot point anyway, because as far as I can discover, a 16 year old can take employment without his parents permission.

Dude you really typed that?  So any family member could say "I is X person guardian and witness them sign a contract even if parents alive?  You seriously believe than nonsense?  And wasn't you the one who said as long as a parent or guardian consent a contract can be entered with a 16 year old?  So which is it you believe they are emancipated and don't need the parents or guardian or it it what you stated before?   I eh goin in no more long talk nah because unless the parents willing to admit in court that they expressly gave their permision for Daniel to act on their behalf that K eh carryin no weight.  Sancho shoulda call he lawyer padna and ax ah question because I sure no sensible lawyer was advising allyuh on that.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Central will lose in this matter regarding Garcia!  I am not questioning their intent when initiating the contract in any way.  However from an objective standpoint, without the brother having being legally appointed as guardian or given legal power of attorney for the parents this contract will not stand in a court of law.  Sosa ketch allyuh wid allyuh pants dong!!  Sorry CFC but this will be a necessary lesson so as to avoid any such issues in the future.

Lessons will be learned by all parties. Lot's of people have spoken about employing minors, appointing guardians etc, but nobody, not one person, has yet to show me a law, rule, regulation that says otherwise.

The 2005 T&T Child Labour Review says : Trinidad and Tobago, after consultation with the social partners, has determined a minimum age for admission to employment or work at age 16. I cannot find any amendment to this law. There is no FIFA rules been broken and no Pro League rules. Regarding guardians (if it is even applicable) there are no Pro League or FIFA rules and the T&T 2012 Childrens Act says : Guardian – any person who has, in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child, responsibility for the child.  I'm willing, if it reaches that far, to go to court for someone to prove that Daniel Garcia had no cognizance of Levi's situation.

But, it is clear that the TTFA need to look at this situation and make suitable adjustments to ensure all parties are suitably protected. 

The TTFA has no say on this matter... similarly, this isn't a "labor" issue, it is contractual. The inability for minors to enter into a contract (other than for necessities) is settled law.  It's not for me or anybody else to show or convince you otherwise... at the end of the day nobody here, but Central FC and it's representatives, and Levi Garcia and his representatives, have any dog in this fight.  The only way for a minor to enter into a contract not for necessities, is with the intercession of a parent/guardian.  Such guardianship isn't made by agreement between the parent and putative guardian because it's not the parent's right to bargain away.  The right belongs to the minor and courts are fiercely vigilant of protecting the rights of minors.  A guardian has to be examined by the court before consent is granted.  You seem to want conclusive proof of this in writing... well that's what you pay a lawyer for, and and sure s/he will render his/her expert opinion accordingly.  This isn't me being dismissive of your concerns, but rather me telling you that if you harbor such strong doubts, this isn't the proper forum (no pun intended) to have them answered.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
It does not ask for legal responsibility, it says in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child  The courts opinion is not based on any laws, because none (to my knowledge)  have been broken. It's a moot point anyway, because as far as I can discover, a 16 year old can take employment without his parents permission.

LOL... really?  Okay.

And no, a child cannot take employment without his parents permission, the parents have the right to determine what is best for the child, and if the parent thinks employment is against the best interest of the child then the parent can prohibit it.  The age requirement simply means that a child under the age of 12 cannot be employed under any circumstance, and then only in certain activities until the age of 18.  But again, you are looking at this thru the wrong prism, this isn't a labor dispute, it's a contractual issue, specifically whether the contract is binding on Levi Garcia.

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
It does not ask for legal responsibility, it says in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child  The courts opinion is not based on any laws, because none (to my knowledge)  have been broken. It's a moot point anyway, because as far as I can discover, a 16 year old can take employment without his parents permission.

LOL... really?  Okay.

And no, a child cannot take employment without his parents permission, the parents have the right to determine what is best for the child, and if the parent thinks employment is against the best interest of the child then the parent can prohibit it.  The age requirement simply means that a child under the age of 12 cannot be employed under any circumstance, and then only in certain activities until the age of 18.  But again, you are looking at this thru the wrong prism, this isn't a labor dispute, it's a contractual issue, specifically whether the contract is binding on Levi Garcia.

I appreciate your input, I really do, but I guess my lack of understanding is because nobody can show me the laws or rules that apply. All I'm asking for is something like "Child Labour Act, 2012 section 4.3" or whatever the relevant section is. Contracts of professional football clubs can, of course, be challenged. However, the contract and the rules of the relevant leagues and football associations (including FIFA) have a due process. In this instance, no Pro League, TTFA or FIFA rules have been broken by Central F.C. If Levi attempts to join another club without the agreement of Central F.C., it will be he who is in violation of various rules.

However, TTFA, as the governing body of T&T football does have a say in the matter. They, if you like, are the highest football court in the land. If Levi Garcia cannot solve his grievance with Central F.C. he can then apply to the Pro League. If he still is not happy, his next step is to apply to TTFA to hear the case. Wherever possible, football matters are supposed to be settled through football bodies such as FIFA's Player Status Committee. As we saw with the SocaWarriors and with Bosman, arbitration does not always work, so it ends up in court.

I quoted the only labour laws that I can find relating to minors. If, as you have said, it is contract law, well that's something I know little about (which, as you rightfully pointed out, is why we pay lawyers).



Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
It does not ask for legal responsibility, it says in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child  The courts opinion is not based on any laws, because none (to my knowledge)  have been broken. It's a moot point anyway, because as far as I can discover, a 16 year old can take employment without his parents permission.

Dude you really typed that? So any family member could say "I is X person guardian and witness them sign a contract even if parents alive?  You seriously believe than nonsense?  And wasn't you the one who said as long as a parent or guardian consent a contract can be entered with a 16 year old?  So which is it you believe they are emancipated and don't need the parents or guardian or it it what you stated before?   I eh goin in no more long talk nah because unless the parents willing to admit in court that they expressly gave their permision for Daniel to act on their behalf that K eh carryin no weight.  Sancho shoulda call he lawyer padna and ax ah question because I sure no sensible lawyer was advising allyuh on that.

Actually, no I didn't type that. I typed: It does not ask for legal responsibility, it says in the opinion of a court, having cognizance of any case in relation to the child  The courts opinion is not based on any laws, because none (to my knowledge)  have been broken.

We have several different points here. To my knowledge, a contract with a 16 year old can be entered into if a parent or guardian give their consent.
I then quoted further information from the Child Labour Review and the Children's Act. I didn't make these up! Whatever you may believe, I feel that a court may form an opinion that a 26 year old former professional footballer may have  cognizance in this case in relation to his younger brother. Of course, the court may feel differently. But, if the contract is a document used several hundred times per year and there appears to be no rule in global football preventing Daniel from witnessing the signing, the court may decide to uphold the contract. It could also be argued that Levi had far superior expert advice frome his brother than could be provided by the majority of parents in this matter.

This whole thing will be settled by lawyers. I'm just trying to be open about the issue.

To me, the case is simple. We signed a player within the rules of the sport, as has happened numerous times before, we paid the player, we would not agree to sell the player to a Third Party Operation, the TPO encouraged the player to breach his contract.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
I appreciate your input, I really do, but I guess my lack of understanding is because nobody can show me the laws or rules that apply. All I'm asking for is something like "Child Labour Act, 2012 section 4.3" or whatever the relevant section is. Contracts of professional football clubs can, of course, be challenged. However, the contract and the rules of the relevant leagues and football associations (including FIFA) have a due process. In this instance, no Pro League, TTFA or FIFA rules have been broken by Central F.C. If Levi attempts to join another club without the agreement of Central F.C., it will be he who is in violation of various rules.

However, TTFA, as the governing body of T&T football does have a say in the matter. They, if you like, are the highest football court in the land. If Levi Garcia cannot solve his grievance with Central F.C. he can then apply to the Pro League. If he still is not happy, his next step is to apply to TTFA to hear the case. Wherever possible, football matters are supposed to be settled through football bodies such as FIFA's Player Status Committee. As we saw with the SocaWarriors and with Bosman, arbitration does not always work, so it ends up in court.

I quoted the only labour laws that I can find relating to minors. If, as you have said, it is contract law, well that's something I know little about (which, as you rightfully pointed out, is why we pay lawyers).

Right, you're looking for some "statutory" provision, and I'm sure it exists... somewhere.  I can find some statutes by searching online, but I don't always have that kind of time to search.  A local lawyer should know how to more efficiently access the relevant statutes.  More importantly, Trinidad is a common law jurisdiction, meaning many of the laws on the books aren't passed by Act of Parliament ("statutory") but rather arise out of cases in the courts.  It is settled in common law that minors lack the capacity to enter contracts... as noted.  So what you're looking for would quicker be found in the common law ("in Applesby v. Gigglesby" etc.) rather than in some "Act".

The TTFA has no say in this situation... TTFA procedures and regulations don't trump the common law.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 07:06:31 PM by Bakes »

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
I appreciate your input, I really do, but I guess my lack of understanding is because nobody can show me the laws or rules that apply. All I'm asking for is something like "Child Labour Act, 2012 section 4.3" or whatever the relevant section is. Contracts of professional football clubs can, of course, be challenged. However, the contract and the rules of the relevant leagues and football associations (including FIFA) have a due process. In this instance, no Pro League, TTFA or FIFA rules have been broken by Central F.C. If Levi attempts to join another club without the agreement of Central F.C., it will be he who is in violation of various rules.

However, TTFA, as the governing body of T&T football does have a say in the matter. They, if you like, are the highest football court in the land. If Levi Garcia cannot solve his grievance with Central F.C. he can then apply to the Pro League. If he still is not happy, his next step is to apply to TTFA to hear the case. Wherever possible, football matters are supposed to be settled through football bodies such as FIFA's Player Status Committee. As we saw with the SocaWarriors and with Bosman, arbitration does not always work, so it ends up in court.

I quoted the only labour laws that I can find relating to minors. If, as you have said, it is contract law, well that's something I know little about (which, as you rightfully pointed out, is why we pay lawyers).

Right, you're looking for some "statutory" provision, and I'm sure it exists... somewhere.  I can find some statutes by searching online, but I don't always have that kind of time to search.  A local lawyer should know how to more efficiently access the relevant statutes.  More importantly, Trinidad is a common law jurisdiction, meaning many of the laws on the books aren't passed by Act of Parliament ("statutory") but rather arise out of cases in the courts.  It is settled in common law that minors lack the capacity to enter contracts... as noted.  So what you're looking for would quicker be found in the common law ("in Applesby v. Gigglesby" etc.) rather than in some "Act".

The TTFA has no say in this situation... TTFA procedures and regulations don't trump the common law.

OK, thanks, I now understand your meaning.
Your comment about TTFA is another situation. For example, if I worked for KFC, I could quit today and start work for Church's chicken tomorrow. Footballers can't do this, as professional football is accepted as being unique. In order to protect the financial integrity of the clubs and leagues, there is a very different concept of employment rights. Some people have likened it to slavery as a club, literally, owns a player through the term of his contract and can trade him or sell him. 

This uniqueness can be tested in a court of law, just like the Bosman case and it could lead to new rules within football. But at this time, if a player tries to join a club in another country, it has to be done through FIFA's TMS (Transfer Management System). The player's last club has to agree to the transfer and complete documentation. If the club does not agree with the transfer, it's football association must refuse to issue an ITC (International Transfer Certificate) pending a decision by FIFA. As long as all rules concerning the registration of the player by the club have been followed, TTFA would have a duty to protect it's member. So, whatever the common law situation concerning the signing of a player under 18, the ownership of the player's registration would need to be challenged. It could become a case that affects clubs around the world, just like Bosman. But it could take years to resolve. But, I believe that no club would sign the player. FIFA article 17.4 states: any club signing a professional who has terminated his contract without just cause has induced that professional to commit a breach. The club shall be banned from registering any new players, either nationally or internationally, for two registration periods.
As mentioned, perhaps the common law that you mentioned could be proved, but that could take years. Meanwhile, no FIFA rules have been broken, so any transfer would probably be blocked. A purchasing club would not want to risk a 12 month transfer ban.
Of course, this is just my opinion based on my understanding.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
OK, thanks, I now understand your meaning.
Your comment about TTFA is another situation. For example, if I worked for KFC, I could quit today and start work for Church's chicken tomorrow. Footballers can't do this, as professional football is accepted as being unique. In order to protect the financial integrity of the clubs and leagues, there is a very different concept of employment rights. Some people have likened it to slavery as a club, literally, owns a player through the term of his contract and can trade him or sell him. 

This uniqueness can be tested in a court of law, just like the Bosman case and it could lead to new rules within football. But at this time, if a player tries to join a club in another country, it has to be done through FIFA's TMS (Transfer Management System). The player's last club has to agree to the transfer and complete documentation. If the club does not agree with the transfer, it's football association must refuse to issue an ITC (International Transfer Certificate) pending a decision by FIFA. As long as all rules concerning the registration of the player by the club have been followed, TTFA would have a duty to protect it's member. So, whatever the common law situation concerning the signing of a player under 18, the ownership of the player's registration would need to be challenged. It could become a case that affects clubs around the world, just like Bosman. But it could take years to resolve. But, I believe that no club would sign the player. FIFA article 17.4 states: any club signing a professional who has terminated his contract without just cause has induced that professional to commit a breach. The club shall be banned from registering any new players, either nationally or internationally, for two registration periods.
As mentioned, perhaps the common law that you mentioned could be proved, but that could take years. Meanwhile, no FIFA rules have been broken, so any transfer would probably be blocked. A purchasing club would not want to risk a 12 month transfer ban.
Of course, this is just my opinion based on my understanding.

Not really... everything you say is premised on the existence of a valid contract (blue highlights).  And it's not at all unique to football, it is true of every professional sport.  A player under contract to play basketball in Europe can't just come to the US and sign with an NBA team without the consent of the team to which he's already under contract.  In fact this isn't even unique to sports, any contract where the services contracted for is done so on an exclusive basis, meaning you can't off the same service to another party during the duration of the contract, then there would be such a prohibition.  Of course in sports there is mutual agreement across the board that no one hires a player already under contract, whereas in the rest of the contract world somebody would breach and go to court.

Now that being said, Levi is still underaged so there's no question that the contract was signed while he was a minor.  The onus ("burden of persuasion") is on your club to prove the validity of the contract, not the other way around.  The parents' signatures are not on the contract and Daniel lacked the authority to sign on Levi's behalf.  Now there's an outside chance your lawyer could argue "apparent authority" and hope a court agrees, but again, where as here a minor's rights are concerned, courts are inclined to protect the rights of the minor, which is to say, in all likelihood they'll side with him.  Until then, believe it or not, Levi is a free agent.  If he signs with another club during the pendency of this case and the courts side with Central, then Central would just be entitled to compensation, not his services.  Any club signing him in the mean time would not be at risk of sanction from FIFA because as it stands, it is not established that he IS under contract.  You won't agree with this, and that is fine, but I'm pretty confident about what I'm saying.

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
OK, thanks, I now understand your meaning.
Your comment about TTFA is another situation. For example, if I worked for KFC, I could quit today and start work for Church's chicken tomorrow. Footballers can't do this, as professional football is accepted as being unique. In order to protect the financial integrity of the clubs and leagues, there is a very different concept of employment rights. Some people have likened it to slavery as a club, literally, owns a player through the term of his contract and can trade him or sell him. 

This uniqueness can be tested in a court of law, just like the Bosman case and it could lead to new rules within football. But at this time, if a player tries to join a club in another country, it has to be done through FIFA's TMS (Transfer Management System). The player's last club has to agree to the transfer and complete documentation. If the club does not agree with the transfer, it's football association must refuse to issue an ITC (International Transfer Certificate) pending a decision by FIFA. As long as all rules concerning the registration of the player by the club have been followed, TTFA would have a duty to protect it's member. So, whatever the common law situation concerning the signing of a player under 18, the ownership of the player's registration would need to be challenged. It could become a case that affects clubs around the world, just like Bosman. But it could take years to resolve. But, I believe that no club would sign the player. FIFA article 17.4 states: any club signing a professional who has terminated his contract without just cause has induced that professional to commit a breach. The club shall be banned from registering any new players, either nationally or internationally, for two registration periods.
As mentioned, perhaps the common law that you mentioned could be proved, but that could take years. Meanwhile, no FIFA rules have been broken, so any transfer would probably be blocked. A purchasing club would not want to risk a 12 month transfer ban.
Of course, this is just my opinion based on my understanding.

Not really... everything you say is premised on the existence of a valid contract (blue highlights).  And it's not at all unique to football, it is true of every professional sport.  A player under contract to play basketball in Europe can't just come to the US and sign with an NBA team without the consent of the team to which he's already under contract.  In fact this isn't even unique to sports, any contract where the services contracted for is done so on an exclusive basis, meaning you can't off the same service to another party during the duration of the contract, then there would be such a prohibition.  Of course in sports there is mutual agreement across the board that no one hires a player already under contract, whereas in the rest of the contract world somebody would breach and go to court.

Now that being said, Levi is still underaged so there's no question that the contract was signed while he was a minor.  The onus ("burden of persuasion") is on your club to prove the validity of the contract, not the other way around.  The parents' signatures are not on the contract and Daniel lacked the authority to sign on Levi's behalf.  Now there's an outside chance your lawyer could argue "apparent authority" and hope a court agrees, but again, where as here a minor's rights are concerned, courts are inclined to protect the rights of the minor, which is to say, in all likelihood they'll side with him.  Until then, believe it or not, Levi is a free agent.  If he signs with another club during the pendency of this case and the courts side with Central, then Central would just be entitled to compensation, not his services.  Any club signing him in the mean time would not be at risk of sanction from FIFA because as it stands, it is not established that he IS under contract.  You won't agree with this, and that is fine, but I'm pretty confident about what I'm saying.

Looks pretty grim for us then! But we will continue to contest this situation. I'm sure many feel that Central should let the boy be owned by a management company and sold overseas, but to me, if we've followed all of the Pro League and FIFA rules, we should not lose the player. So, maybe we'll have to rely on the "boo hoo, it's not fair" defence!

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Get a lawyer who could look into the local laws... or talk to the family and try to resolve this.  No sense demonizing Sosa for doing what any smart person in his situation would have done.

Offline asylumseeker

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18076
    • View Profile
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ODa9mZ9XjkI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ODa9mZ9XjkI</a>

Offline elan

  • Go On ......Get In There!!!!!!!!
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 11629
  • WaRRioR fOr LiFe!!!!!
    • View Profile
Using Facebook to bounty-hunt football's 'disappeared' players



(CNN) -- European football's summer months are dominated by back-page headlines of glamorous transfers involving the game's most prestigious players, with Arsenal's Robin van Persie the most notable example this last few weeks as he ponders whether to stay with the London club after saying he will not renew his contract.

But at the bottom of the football pyramid -- a world that receives little attention from the global media -- there are many deals that involve young players who are just starting their careers, the clubs that have trained them, and those that are interested in signing them in the hope that they might be the next Lionel Messi.

The story of Messi's early years in Argentina and his signing by Barcelona has been retold countless times. Of how, diagnosed with a growth hormone deficiency, the kid who would become the world's best player went to Spain after Barcelona offered to pay his medical bills.
What is less well known is that Barcelona did not immediately pay his former club Newell's Old Boys the training compensation fee that the Argentine team was due.

Newell's Old Boys did claim $42,867 in reparation, but had to go all the way to FIFA's Dispute Resolution Chamber to get the payment.
It takes time and money for clubs to develop players, but the rewards can be enormous given the voracious appetite of ambitious teams looking for new talent.
But this talent trawl leaves casualties and an academic study in 2009 estimated as many as 20,000 African boys are living in the streets of Europe after failing to secure contracts with European clubs following their trials.
Under rules established by football's international governing body FIFA, those clubs seeking that new talent agree to pay the team that nurtured the youngster a "training compensation" fee.

FIFA has a cash formula that is designed to compensate the "training club" for the years spent developing players up to the age of 23, when they sign their first professional contract.

However, sports agent Paulo Teixeira says some European teams do not always play ball in agreeing these compensation fees.
Teixeira, who has worked as a player agent and once represented former Brazil international Roberto Carlos, has taken to posting about training compensation on Facebook., pointing to the way social media was used during the Arab Spring as a motivation in raising publicity over the issue.

"It's a matter of culture," Teixeira writes on Facebook, recounting what he says he was told by an executive of a European team ahead of the Champions League final in Munich back in May.
"European clubs are ready to pay millions on transfer fees, but when it comes to settling training compensation to African or South Americans clubs, it becomes a problem.

"Clubs know that they will have to pay once the cases reach FIFA, but until then they buy time."
The Brazilian agent is football's equivalent of a bounty hunter, taking a hefty commission from the teams he represents in cases he takes before FIFA to claim training compensation from larger clubs.

Teixeira details his disputes with a number of those European clubs on Facebook, claiming they failed to pay the true cost of training a player to the development club, based on FIFA's formula.
Unhappy about these Facebook postings, at least two of those clubs -- Italy's AC Milan and Anderlecht of Belgium -- have complained to FIFA about what they claim is "defamation and calumny".

"FIFA can confirm that AC Milan and Anderlecht have lodged complaints against the agent Paulo Teixeira and that FIFA has opened a case," FIFA told CNN.

"However, as the investigations are currently ongoing we cannot comment or speculate at this stage."
But as well referencing the Arab Spring, Teixeira quotes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights -- "everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression" -- as justification for his campaign.
In one of the cases Teixeira posts about, he claims AC Milan owes Botafogo FC of Ribeirao Preto compensation involving its training of the player Sergio Ceregatti.

He says the claim is based on the calculation that Ceregatti was with the Brazilian club for four years before moving to Italy.
Ceregatti initially joined Ancona and then signed for Milan, with Botafogo not compensated for those formative years of training as per FIFA's rules.

"At this stage, I just can tell you that the player gave three different declarations (one of them signed by his father, when Ceregatti was still a minor) about the duration of his registration to Botafogo -- nine months; 24 months; 48 months circa," said Leandro Cantamessa, the lawyer acting for AC Milan.

"AC Milan immediately paid on May 2011 the amount requested by Teixeira pursuant to the first player's declaration and moreover in conformity with Botafogo's records, as collected by Brazilian Federation (CBF) in the so-called sport passport, duly attached to the first Teixeira claim.

"The last declaration has been released by Ceregatti in Brazil, in January 2012, after his escape from Italy and from contractual obligations with AC Milan."
Texeira tells a very different story, insisting he has full the support of Ceregatti, who recently returned to Brazil after signing with Vasco da Gama, and that the Brazilian footballer confirms he had been at Botafogo for four years since the age of 12 from 2004.

"The claim is for Botafogo and has nothing to do with Ceregatti," added Teixeira, after CNN asked to interview the player.
As for Anderlecht, general manager Hermann van Holsbeeck refused to comment on Teixeira's $122,822 compensation claim on behalf of DR Congo club CS Aigles Verts relating to one of their players, but added: "We have introduced a file against Teixeira by FIFA. We will defend our position at the court."

Teixeira works closely with the Brazilian National Amateur League manager Jose Tobaldini, who keeps track of 140,000 players on a computer database and believes hundreds of young players literally "disappear" from their clubs -- lured away by agents and scouts.
"I know they've all gone to Europe, most of them have the possibility of acquiring dual citizenship," says Tobaldini.

Teixeira claims on Facebook that "a generation of dozens of young Brazilian and African players were literally taken away from their original clubs by dubious agents and brought to Italy under the so-called primo tesseramento (first contract)."

Often smaller clubs in Brazil and Africa do not have the financial resources to find out what has happened to their players after they have left, presumably for Europe -- which means they are often left without compensation. That is where Teixeira steps in.


After a player has turned professional, Teixeira -- with the help of Tobaldini -- tracks down the development club to see if there are compensation issues and then begins the administrative process of demanding what he says is the correct sum to be paid by the European clubs.

"In the beginning I was approaching the clubs, but now more and more I am approached by clubs," said Teixeira. "All due to the internet, as you can imagine. Some African agents have sent me messages saying I've become an icon."

In an arrangement that is reminiscent of the kind of fees "uplift" that successful personal injury lawyers use to get paid if and when a dispute is resolved, Teixeria would receive a 20% commission of the amount of the claim.
So in the cases he lists on Facebook, the potential compensation amount is close to $2.4 million, which would net Teixeira approximately $480,000 if he is successful.

"Big clubs are always challenging the conformity of training compensation with EU law," said Argentine lawyer Ariel Reck, who also has experience with of this area and it is a view supported by British lawyer Guy Thomas.
"The Jean-Marc Bosman case may have increased player power," said Thomas, referring to the landmark judgment allowing players to move for free at the end of their contract, "but ongoing uncertainty over the best way to calculate compensation still allows clubs the chance to push back or delay payment."

"This is also a business for sports lawyers, I have to confess. Not only South American but also big European firms (mostly Spanish due to language issues) offer clubs the services to claim and collect such compensations. Fees can be as high as 30% of the amount," he said.
Gravy train or not, this issue may also be an administrative headache for FIFA, which says it receives 3,500 complaints a year -- though not all of these relate to training compensation cases.

"FIFA's normal procedure says that a case should be opened within three to five weeks after the claim is lodged," said lawyer Fernando Lamar, who works with Teixeira.

"FIFA says that an ordinary case would take six to 12 months to be solved. However, we have cases in progress for almost two years and we're not halfway through.

"You cannot imagine the time and energy spent trying to reach a FIFA officer to have information about the claims. It is almost a lost battle; the most common responses we get are, 'We are overloaded,' 'We have no time.' "

In a statement to CNN, FIFA said: "Cases are normally opened within a couple of weeks following the receipt of the relevant complaint.
"As to the duration of a specific procedure, we need to emphasize that many factors influence the advancement of the investigation phase and the decision-making process: the cooperation of the parties, the complexity of the matter, the extent of the documentation provided, the availability of the deciding body -- just to name a few.

"Consequently, we are really not in a position to comment on an estimated timescale ."
In a recent edition of the Sports Law Bulletin, a doctoral researcher at England's University of Westminster came up with an idea to help protect the treatment of minors in football.

"A possible solution to prevent such circumstances could be introduction of a form of authorization for trials via the transfer matching system, albeit trials cannot be deemed as a transfer, " wrote Serhat Yilmaz, referring to FIFA's governing body electronic method of conducting transfers.

So as the lawyers, agents and administrators argue, does Tobaldini have any advice for parents considering letting their offspring move to European clubs?
"First you should build the athlete up, maintain his focus on school and look for an agent -- properly accredited -- with the goal of taking care of his professional career."
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Trini _2026

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 13563
    • View Profile
Has any of the  5 U20 players earned a contract yet ?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Has any of the  5 U20 players earned a contract yet ?

One of them already has a contract!!!

Offline chelsealife

  • You must be the change you wish to see in this world
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • Its BLUE, what else matters?
    • View Profile
Has any of the  5 U20 players earned a contract yet ?

One of them already has a contract!!!
Who? how long? which team?

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Has any of the  5 U20 players earned a contract yet ?

One of them already has a contract!!!
Who? how long? which team?

Levi Garcia, Central F.C. until May 2016

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18647
    • View Profile
 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Offline Trini _2026

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 13563
    • View Profile
Has any of the  5 U20 players earned a contract yet ?

One of them already has a contract!!!
Who? how long? which team?

Levi Garcia, Central F.C. until May 2016

Ah FS ........... this will be plenty Bacchanal
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

Offline chelsealife

  • You must be the change you wish to see in this world
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • Its BLUE, what else matters?
    • View Profile
Has any of the  5 U20 players earned a contract yet ?

One of them already has a contract!!!
Who? how long? which team?

Levi Garcia, Central F.C. until May 2016
Touché... Not surprised by this answer tbh. Classic  :rotfl: :rotfl:  :beermug:

Offline Errol

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 709
    • View Profile
Makes me now wonder how much private payment did Harrison and Sancho made on Levi?


Offline weary1969

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 27225
    • View Profile
Makes me now wonder how much private payment did Harrison and Sancho made on Levi?



ENT
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

 

1]; } ?>