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Author Topic: TTFA Constitution Thread  (Read 26936 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Kelvin Jack could not stand as it would be a conflict of interest as the legal case is still ongoing!!

Not at all... he'd just have to recuse himself from voting on anything or being part of any decision-making that has to do with the WC bonus dispute.

Offline SWF Reporter

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1) The Independent Reform Committee finished its work in April to give the TTFA enough time to make the adjustments necessary for a November election.
2) The IRC did just give recommendations. It drafted an entire constitution.
3) Should I publish all the letters? No media house in the world can do that. In fact, since I have more space online, I published the entire final letter which spoke to the delay.
4) What difference can seven months make? Whose prerogative it is to take another seven months? Why not a year? Or two? That isn't how democracy works. The question you should ask is whether it is proper that the TTFA president receive an additional seven months. In total, the TTFA will have received more than two years to do a constitution. Sound feasible? Could FIFA step in an stop any other FA election in any nation worth its salt? What bylaw gives them that ability?

I'm not really interested in debates on me personally because I am not bothered by opinions of my character. I have quotes from two members of the Independent Reform Commission already in the story. We know by now that for the first time in decades, there is likely to be a fight for the post of TTFA president.
Being on the ground, I have spoken to people from inside and outside of the TTFA as well as from the Independent Reform Committee. So I do have a very good idea of what I am speaking of.
Some will see something alarming here. Some won't. Everyone is welcome to his opinion and I will take neither personally.

Offline SWF Reporter

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Seven months cannot change anything even if that is Tim Kee plan.

Tim Kee very stubborn and hate de SWO fans, but at least he reform still better than Jack Warner own.

Once he do things right.

I hope de new constitution have something where men can only rule for two terms.

I want to see de new constitution.

Jack Waner put his people in power in de zones so he could win all de time, I hope de new TTFA do things fair.

I want to know when de election for a new press officer coming? It seems he job more secure than anyone else.



The proposal that the Reform Commission made, which Tim Kee is trying to put in place would limit the terms of the President to two consecutive terms.  This means you could serve, get re-elected again, but come the third time you have to step down and let somebody else serve.  After that you're free to start all over and run again.  Now why would Tim Kee want to do that if is power he really trying to hold onto so?  If he really wanted to be "ah next Jack Warner" as some jackass commentator on Lasana's site say... why would he be in favor of spreading out the vote and limiting the term?  Is either Lasana reading things and not understanding what it is he reading, or as I say he just on a campaign of lies and mischaraterizations.  It is a crying shame either way because once upon a time he was a fine journalist, if not the best in Trinidad... a man whose word you never had to doubt.

Hello Bakes. The IRC did recommend two terms for the president Tim Kee. But the committee has no idea if their proposals were accepted. In fact, the FIFA correspondence seems to suggest it was not. So you are wrong to say the two term limit suggestion says anything about Tim Kee at all.
In fact, there was only one concern that was relayed to the IRC after they handed over the draft constitution. And that was the two-term limit.

Offline SWF Reporter

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I reiterate. The IRC produced a draft constitution. They spent nine months doing it under the guidance of Elton Prescott SC. So there will probably be tweaking. But there is no need for nine months to do a constitution.
So you all were misinformed.
You pointed to the need for a delay to set things in place. Check the timeline again. The IRC completed in April. FIFA had it in its hands withing the first week of May. The time needed to put things in place was always factored into the IRC's work from day one.
Suddenly, there is another 9-month delay.
Also, search Wired868 for Sheldon Phillips' appointment as general secretary and Raymond Tim Kee's presidential campaign. You will see that the tone was optimistic and I actually did two sit down interviews with both men.
People might search for reasons why I don't like Tim Kee and Phillips. But you won't find any motivating factor other than the obvious.
I want the best for Trinidad and Tobago's football.
And I can write hundreds of words on the things that have gone wrong over the last two years.
I am the person who gets calls and emails from players, parents, coaches, clubs and fans about the issues within the game. I can only deal with a fraction of them. But I do believe Trinidad and Tobago football deserves better than it is getting now.
Notwithstanding this, I contact Phillips for quotes or use quotes from the two bigwigs whenever necessary. I cover T&T football and I play my role in the national game.
I doubt any single journalist covers as much football as I do. Then you hear about the goofing off that is happening at administrative level that is affecting our game here.
As a journo, my back is broad and I have no problem taking the criticism. You certainly should question my work. But also question the information you are being fed by those who really have something to gain here.
What do I have to gain? I'm not running for a post. And there will always be football for me to go and see. Consider that.

Offline Bakes

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1) The Independent Reform Committee finished its work in April to give the TTFA enough time to make the adjustments necessary for a November election.
2) The IRC did just give recommendations. It drafted an entire constitution.
3) Should I publish all the letters? No media house in the world can do that. In fact, since I have more space online, I published the entire final letter which spoke to the delay.
4) What difference can seven months make? Whose prerogative it is to take another seven months? Why not a year? Or two? That isn't how democracy works. The question you should ask is whether it is proper that the TTFA president receive an additional seven months. In total, the TTFA will have received more than two years to do a constitution. Sound feasible? Could FIFA step in an stop any other FA election in any nation worth its salt? What bylaw gives them that ability?

I'm not really interested in debates on me personally because I am not bothered by opinions of my character. I have quotes from two members of the Independent Reform Commission already in the story. We know by now that for the first time in decades, there is likely to be a fight for the post of TTFA president.
Being on the ground, I have spoken to people from inside and outside of the TTFA as well as from the Independent Reform Committee. So I do have a very good idea of what I am speaking of.
Some will see something alarming here. Some won't. Everyone is welcome to his opinion and I will take neither personally.

1) When the Commission first undertook they job in April 2013 they promised to finish in 3 months.  Once they realized how difficult a task it was, they revised that to 6 months, meaning they should have been finished by October 2013.  They finished up in March of this year, say April, as you said.  Only you would think 7 months is enough time to complete a full constitutional reform and operational overhaul of the TTFA.

2) The IRC isn't empowered to make changes, just recommendations.  They drafted an "entire Constitution" but that Constitution is just a piece of paper until implemented.  It is the job of the Reform Panel to adopt the changes proposed by the Reform Commission.  The panel hasn't completed the reform process yet, so how could anyone vote on the proposed changes... as required?

3) No one asked you to "publish all the letters" that is nonsensical obfuscation on your part.  Did you cite to "all the letters"?  No, you made reference to the letter granting the extension of time.  Since yuh playing dotish lemmih help you out some more... the September 25 letter from Valcke to Tim Kee.  That is the one you claim "protect(s)" Tim Kee... so publish that one.  Not every letter ever sent by FIFA.

4) What bylaw gives them the right to step in?  Try Article 7(1) and 7(2):

Quote
7 Conduct of bodies and Officials
1. The bodies and Offi cials must observe the Statutes, regulations, decisions and Code of Ethics of FIFA in their activities.
2. Executive bodies of Member Associations may under exceptional circumstances be removed from offi ce by the Executive Committee in
consultation with the relevant Confederation and replaced by a normalisation committee for a specifi c period of time.

Having quotes from two members of the Commission doesn't mean that you don't know what the ass you're talking about.  Did Shaka or Elton Prescott say that the FIFA extension is designed to "protect" Tim Kee the way you have?  Did either of them state why an extension was necessary (or not)?  No, that was all your doing so try that shit with somebody else.  You reporting news and creating news to suit your own narrative at the same time.  Don't put that on the IRC, put that on yuhself and the 'Insider' yuh have whispering in yuh ears.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 03:12:10 PM by Bakes »

Offline Bakes

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Hello Bakes. The IRC did recommend two terms for the president Tim Kee. But the committee has no idea if their proposals were accepted. In fact, the FIFA correspondence seems to suggest it was not. So you are wrong to say the two term limit suggestion says anything about Tim Kee at all.
In fact, there was only one concern that was relayed to the IRC after they handed over the draft constitution. And that was the two-term limit.

How could the proposals be accepted without a full vote of the membership??  This is what I mean by saying you don't know what you're talking about.  The Reform Panel has to take a look at the recommendations then present them to the general membership for voting.  However, before a vote could be held, there needs to be changes to the voting procedures as identified by FIFA.  The changes are meant to undo the consolidation of power that Jack Warner instituted.  FIFA would likely not recognize any result coming out of an election under the current system.  The misconduct of Warner, and complicity of Camps, Roden et al is what cause them to invoke Article 7, governing misconduct of the local Executive Comittee.

It's curious that you claim that the only concern was the two-term limit (presumably by Tim Kee), when Tim Kee himself is pushing full steam ahead with implementing the changes.  Maybe is yuh friend on the ExCo that raised the concern.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 03:14:47 PM by Bakes »

Offline Bakes

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I reiterate. The IRC produced a draft constitution. They spent nine months doing it under the guidance of Elton Prescott SC. So there will probably be tweaking. But there is no need for nine months to do a constitution.
So you all were misinformed.
You pointed to the need for a delay to set things in place. Check the timeline again. The IRC completed in April. FIFA had it in its hands withing the first week of May. The time needed to put things in place was always factored into the IRC's work from day one.
Suddenly, there is another 9-month delay.
Also, search Wired868 for Sheldon Phillips' appointment as general secretary and Raymond Tim Kee's presidential campaign. You will see that the tone was optimistic and I actually did two sit down interviews with both men.
People might search for reasons why I don't like Tim Kee and Phillips. But you won't find any motivating factor other than the obvious.
I want the best for Trinidad and Tobago's football.
And I can write hundreds of words on the things that have gone wrong over the last two years.
I am the person who gets calls and emails from players, parents, coaches, clubs and fans about the issues within the game. I can only deal with a fraction of them. But I do believe Trinidad and Tobago football deserves better than it is getting now.
Notwithstanding this, I contact Phillips for quotes or use quotes from the two bigwigs whenever necessary. I cover T&T football and I play my role in the national game.
I doubt any single journalist covers as much football as I do. Then you hear about the goofing off that is happening at administrative level that is affecting our game here.
As a journo, my back is broad and I have no problem taking the criticism. You certainly should question my work. But also question the information you are being fed by those who really have something to gain here.
What do I have to gain? I'm not running for a post. And there will always be football for me to go and see. Consider that.

Let me give you a real timeline:

The TTFA couldn't make any changes without first securing FIFA's approval.  The Associations Committee needed to first consider the proposals made by the IRC, this is yet another reason why the IRC's proposal isn't binding, just recommendations.

Quote
We inform you that the situation of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) was discussed during the meeting of the FIFA Associations Committee held in Zurich on September 22, 2014.

-------
[the letter goes on to cite several issues: the WC bonus dispute, the overal financial health of the TTFA and how it threatens participation in the FIFA General Assemblies, the November elections... the weaknesses of the current TTFA Statutes (as it compares against the requirements of the FIFA Standard Statutes), and the efforts of the IRC to bring the TTFA Statutes in line with the Standard Statutes.]
--------

Under these circumstances, the Associations Committees has decided to provide an extension of the mandate of the current TTFA board until 30 June 2015 in order to revise the statutes in close collaboration with FIFA and CONCACAF and to organise elections accordingly.  The extension of the mandate should also allow the TTFA to solve the pending issues.

FIFA and CONCACAF will contact you soon in order to discuss the methodology to put in place and to find convenient dates to start the process.

Jerome Valcke
FIFA Secretary General
25 September, 2014

So as this letter makes clear, it is FIFA who set out the timeline for the elections, because FIFA wants to be a part of the process of examining the amendments to the Constitution; and because FIFA wants to make sure that CONCACAF is brought in on that process as well.  So Tim Kee could not, nor can he now change anything until FIFA and CONCACAF are ready to move forward, as the last sentence clearly states.  This is the same letter from which you quoted in your article, while incorrectly saying it was meant to unconstitutionally give Tim Kee a longer term in office.

My sources are good, I am not the one who needs to question the information which he's being fed  :beermug:

Offline SWF Reporter

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You had a lot of fun contorting the facts. I don't need to play that game with you. Too bad the story affects you and your people so much. If it were rubbish there would be loads of reputable people rushing to point out the holes as opposed to one "Bake."
So let us see what happens next.
As for your bylaws:
7 Conduct of bodies and Officials
1. The bodies and Offi cials must observe the Statutes, regulations, decisions and Code of Ethics of FIFA in their activities.
2. Executive bodies of Member Associations may under exceptional circumstances be removed from offi ce by the Executive Committee in
consultation with the relevant Confederation and replaced by a normalisation committee for a specifi c period of time.

So the "exceptional circumstances" you are referring to is the TTFF constitution? You do realise that constitution was approved by FIFA which is the only reason the TTFF was able to use it in the first place right?
Sorry Bakes, I have no problem speaking to anyone and answering questions. But you really have no idea what you are talking about and you are quite aggressively ignorant too.
I don't see the point of furthering this talk.

Offline FF

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Is not one Bakes. Don't try to swerve and confuse silence for acceptance. Other folks voiced their opinion earlier but don't have time to go back and forth
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline SWF Reporter

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I'm talking about people in football who know what is going on, FF. Not observers. If you see an inaccuracy in the story, then point it out. If not, then let us see which insiders can point to errors.

Offline Bakes

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You had a lot of fun contorting the facts. I don't need to play that game with you. Too bad the story affects you and your people so much. If it were rubbish there would be loads of reputable people rushing to point out the holes as opposed to one "Bake."
So let us see what happens next.
As for your bylaws:
7 Conduct of bodies and Officials
1. The bodies and Offi cials must observe the Statutes, regulations, decisions and Code of Ethics of FIFA in their activities.
2. Executive bodies of Member Associations may under exceptional circumstances be removed from offi ce by the Executive Committee in
consultation with the relevant Confederation and replaced by a normalisation committee for a specifi c period of time.

So the "exceptional circumstances" you are referring to is the TTFF constitution? You do realise that constitution was approved by FIFA which is the only reason the TTFF was able to use it in the first place right?
Sorry Bakes, I have no problem speaking to anyone and answering questions. But you really have no idea what you are talking about and you are quite aggressively ignorant too.
I don't see the point of furthering this talk.

You either doing a real convincing job of playing dotish, or you are the real, genuine article.  Rather than repeat myself, I'll just redirect you back to my earlier comments...

Quote
[Say what you want about FIFA and corruption, but following the bribery scandal they took a long hard look (my guess is because of the involvement of the FBI et al) at themselves and instituted changes there in Zurich.  They then told every member FA that they needed to adopt similar changes in governance.  They had so little faith in the old TTFF that they almost took over running things.  Tim Kee et al. convinced Valcke and the rest of the oversight committee to give them a chance to clean things up... this is what lead to the formation of the Reform Commission.

The "exceptional circumstances" which nearly brought the then TTFF under the charge of the normalization committee was the bribery scandal.  Note that FIFA could only do so after consultation with the Confederation (in this case CONCACAF).  I'm sure I don't need to convince you that CONCACAF would have had no problems dropping the hammer on the FA until it felt that the local body had cleaned up its act.  You should also note, since it seems yuh slow on the uptake, that in his September 25, 2014 letter to Tim Kee, that Valcke made pointed references to FIFA and CONCACAF having to look at the reform proposals first, then they'll get back to the TTFA on the path forward.  Everything is there laid out before you, but the bias in yuh mind like a cognitive veil, preventing yuh from connecting the very obvious dots.

I wouldn't even bother responding to the rest of that errant talk about this affecting me and my people.  Football is your lifeline, you need to write about football to make a living, and as I said, where there is no story you are determined to create one so as to continue to draw traffic tuh yuh site.  Trust that nothing that happening in Trinidad affecting me or "my people," yuh tilting at windmills and ent even realize it.

Offline FF

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2014, 06:52:49 AM »
I know a lot more than you think SWF.
The Associations meeting was held on Sept 22nd, the letter sent on the 25th.
Stop playing ignorant about the timelines. Bout the IRC finish since April etc... Is not just so these things happen.

Could the process have been done quicker? Maybe. Is there some foul machinations going on? Most likely not.
Bureaucratic delays? I would say some.
FIFA is clearly guiding the process here. Let's use some common sense.

I would say stop trying to be the scandal journalist and be the truth journalist. The facts will always come out.
There isn't always a scandal under every rock. Even though anyone would seriously doubt that in T&T
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 06:54:39 AM by FF »
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Offline spideybuff

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2014, 06:55:41 AM »
Isn't Kelvin Jack's legal matter with the TTFF ? Or the court looked past all that legal manipulation?
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2014, 07:14:24 AM »
I know a lot more than you think SWF.
The Associations meeting was held on Sept 22nd, the letter sent on the 25th.
Stop playing ignorant about the timelines. Bout the IRC finish since April etc... Is not just so these things happen.

Could the process have been done quicker? Maybe. Is there some foul machinations going on? Most likely not.
Bureaucratic delays? I would say some.

FIFA is clearly guiding the process here. Let's use some common sense.

I would say stop trying to be the scandal journalist and be the truth journalist. The facts will always come out.
There isn't always a scandal under every rock. Even though anyone would seriously doubt that in T&T


As if FIFA was supposed to drop everything between April and September, including the World Cup and convene a meeting with the TTFA and CONCACAF to go over the IRC's proposed constitutional changes.  Lasana just playing de ass.

Isn't Kelvin Jack's legal matter with the TTFF ? Or the court looked past all that legal manipulation?

Ah don't think it would matter for these purposes, but again imo it shouldn't be a bar to him running for office.

Offline Mose

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2014, 08:16:32 AM »
I'm talking about people in football who know what is going on, FF. Not observers. If you see an inaccuracy in the story, then point it out. If not, then let us see which insiders can point to errors.
It's not a question of whether or not what you report is accurate. It's a question of your interpretation of the facts. So while I may not be able to point to any one thing and say that it is not correct, I can look at the whole report and say, it's not making sense.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 08:19:26 AM by Mose »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2014, 09:07:34 AM »
Fifa arrives for TTFA Constitution talks (T&T Guardian)

Published:
Wednesday, October 22, 2014

Work on the new T&T Football Association Constitution will begin this week when representatives of the Independent Football Reform Commission (IFRC), Fifa and Concacaf meet with president of the T&T Football Association (TTFA) Raymond Tim Kee and local officials. A press conference will be held tomorrow to announce major announcements concerning T&T football. Concacaf representatives Reudi Broennimann, Primo Corvaro, and Marco Leal will join Tim Kee and selected local representatives to serve on the Constitutional Reform Panel to begin work on the new TTFA Constitution that will be presented to the TTFA Executive Committee, members and stakeholders for national review and ratification.

The ratification process and several other areas of concern cited by Fifa will also result in the delay in TTFA elections until after June 15, 2015. However, regional zone elections will take place as originally scheduled. “When I came into office two years ago, I vowed to make meaningful change to this FA, first by taking the necessary steps to improve our on the field product and second, by initiating efforts to develop a new structure and governance model for T&T football,” Tim Kee stated.  The origins of the reform effort were born soon after Tim Kee’s election as FA President when he met with Fifa officials, including Fifa President Sepp Blatter, to discuss the way forward for T&T football. 

The idea of the Reform Commission was later introduced to and accepted by Fifa representatives during the 2013 Concacaf Congress in Panama, site of the page two presentation of the now infamous Simmons Report that detailed the events and activities surrounding the World Cup bribery scandal that took place in Trinidad in 2011. After convincing Fifa that T&T possessed enough knowledge and talent to achieve substantive reform, the TTFA president began assembling individuals, such as Shaka Hislop, T&T Olympic Committee president Brian Lewis, and Senator Elton Prescott S.C., to join what would be known as the IFRC. “I would like to thank members of the IFRC for their tireless effort in producing a document that can be a template for other sporting NGBs and, of course, thank you to Fifa and Concacaf, particularly Fifa secretary Jerome Valcke and Concacaf president and Fifa VP, Jeff Webb, for their supporting role in our efforts to make football a better governed entity that will now have a real chance at operating and serving all of its members and stakeholders directly.” added Tim Kee.

Offline SWF Reporter

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2014, 09:45:48 AM »
You point to one letter as if that was all the correspondence there was. I won't comment further on that.
So the terrible health of the TTFA is a reason for FIFA to keep the president rather than get rid of him eh?
On the site, you said it was the bribery scandal. Three years after the fact. Despite the fact that several people actually convicted of the bribery scandal sit on FIFA committees right now. And the TTFA people convicted of the bribery scandal have all left.
Elsewhere, Bakes tried to refute  that the TTFA had not been having statutory quarterly meetings by pointing to two meetings in 2012 and two in 2013. So I have to wonder if he even knows the meaning of "quarterly."
He pointed to fact that FIFA amended its own constitution in January which made ours outdated. So I suppose FAs all over the world have committees feverishly at work and everyone was given nine-month extensions.
Enjoy fellahs. Regards

Offline FF

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2014, 10:05:01 AM »
You unbelievable yes. I thought you were a critical thinker.
Lennox Watson and Rudi Thomas yes. What a joke.
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Bakes

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2014, 10:33:27 AM »
You point to one letter as if that was all the correspondence there was. I won't comment further on that.
So the terrible health of the TTFA is a reason for FIFA to keep the president rather than get rid of him eh?
On the site, you said it was the bribery scandal. Three years after the fact. Despite the fact that several people actually convicted of the bribery scandal sit on FIFA committees right now. And the TTFA people convicted of the bribery scandal have all left.
Elsewhere, Bakes tried to refute  that the TTFA had not been having statutory quarterly meetings by pointing to two meetings in 2012 and two in 2013. So I have to wonder if he even knows the meaning of "quarterly."
He pointed to fact that FIFA amended its own constitution in January which made ours outdated. So I suppose FAs all over the world have committees feverishly at work and everyone was given nine-month extensions.
Enjoy fellahs. Regards

1. No, I point to 'one letter' because the Sept. 25 letter is the one YOU cited in your article as granting the extension of time.

2. The "terrible health" of the TTFA, very little, if any can be attributed to Tim Kee's stewardship, was reason to give them additional time to fix the mistakes of the old administration.  Don't play dotish.

3. As I also pointed out 'on the site'... the bribery scandal happened back then, and since back then FIFA was ready to step in with the normalization committee.  Tim Kee was able to convince them otherwise... just as the Guardian reports above.  As FF states, things don't happen overnight... so here we are.

4. Accuse FIFA of a double-standard if you want but Article 7 speaks directly to FIFA's authority to step in with a normalization committee whenever member federations run afoul of the statutes.  I know yuh slow, but try and keep focus... member federations.  TTFA is a member federation.  If you want to complain about FIFA execs taking bribes in Switzerland then do so elsewhere, they are not "member federations."

5. I didn't point to two meetings in 2012 and two in 2013... I pointed out NINE meetings between November 2012 and August 2013.  Yuh really should try and either pay attention, or stop lying and misrepresenting clear facts.  So what "failure to hold Executive Committee meetings" Watson and Thomas talking about?

6. FIFA implemented the new Statutes in early 2014.  YES, since then member federations around the world have been working feverishly to change their statutes to bring them into compliance with FIFA's, as was the mandate.  Some were able to I'm sure, but others having the same issues as the TTFA.  Take Cameroon for instance:

Quote
FIFA extends nine months the mandate of the Standards Committee Fécafoot led by Joseph Owona (Sport and Leisure sector in need of Foreign Investment partnering with local sporting clubs & Concern Govt Department)

The executive committee of FIFA has decided that the Standards Committee Fécafoot, whose term of eight months was to expire Monday, March 31, 2014, is extended for a further period of nine months.
" The mandate of the standards committee of the Cameroon Football Federation (FECAFOOT) has been extended until November 30, 2014 "can be read in the final communiqué issued after the meeting of the Executive Committee of FIFA that s 'held yesterday and Friday, March 21, 2014 at the headquarters of the proceedings in Zurich under the chairmanship of Joseph Sepp Blatter.
" Right now, qualified for the World Cup in Brazil country, are concentrated in the preparation of this great festival of world football. In the month of June-July, there is nothing that will be done at the member associations. Fifa will be fully focused on the World Cup. There is no question now rushing to the adoption of texts and elections. All this reality requires an extension of the mandate of the Committee for Standardization , "declared Primo Corvaro responsible associations to FIFA to explain why it was necessary to extend the mandate of the committee chaired by Joseph Owona .
Primo Corvaro who led a delegation of FIFA in Yaounde last weekend, made this statement after a meeting with officials of the Standards Committee Fécafoot. It was a question of examining the first report of this committee whose mission is to revise the texts and organize elections Fécafoot ...

https://www.facebook.com/CCTIC.SOCIETY/posts/10152697287109167

So no, the TTFA isn't the only body to get a nine-month extension... note the same Italian fella, Primo Corvaro is in Trinidad this very moment meeting on the Constitutional Reform.  Yuh should write the Cameroon Federation and tell them that FIFA interfering with they business too.  Better yet, accuse mih of being Sheldon Phillips like yuh did over on yuh website.  Backside.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 10:37:50 AM by Bakes »

Offline FF

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2014, 10:41:19 AM »
I thought journalists does do research.


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Offline ribbit

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2014, 11:43:47 AM »
FF/Bakes if you concerned about interpretation best you publish your own articles instead of wasting your time and energies to put your words in Lasana mouth. He have a point.

Offline Controversial

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2014, 11:52:49 AM »
I thought journalists does do research.




that's a big 6  :D Sir Viv in his prime...

Offline Tallman

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2014, 11:11:27 AM »
TTFA Reform Constitution Press Conference Part 1 - President Raymond Tim Kee

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/wVTp3jXBkZU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/wVTp3jXBkZU</a>

TTFA Press Conference - Constitutional Reform Part Two - Brian Lewis

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WIB3T6Y6pBY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WIB3T6Y6pBY</a>

FIFA's Primo Corvaro talks about the TTFA Reform Constitution

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/6yKKZO9IIr8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/6yKKZO9IIr8</a>
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Offline Controversial

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2014, 01:24:32 PM »
TTFA Reform Constitution Press Conference Part 1 - President Raymond Tim Kee

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/wVTp3jXBkZU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/wVTp3jXBkZU</a>

TTFA Press Conference - Constitutional Reform Part Two - Brian Lewis

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WIB3T6Y6pBY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WIB3T6Y6pBY</a>

FIFA's Primo Corvaro talks about the TTFA Reform Constitution

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/6yKKZO9IIr8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/6yKKZO9IIr8</a>

schupppsss, a bunch of fluff and rubbish like usual... he look nervous bc he will get replaced in the future... like someone give him a sedative before he talk... :D bunch of jokers... thank god we getting a new constitution but i need to see it first before i celebrate.. tim kee only talking about celebration in his speech...

female species  :rotfl: what tim kee feel, women is fish or wha? he need some coaching in public speaking..

corvaro talk some sense in that he explained what we were talking about, to give ttfa time to have a proper structure in place before voting...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 01:48:40 PM by Controversial »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2014, 06:24:38 PM »
Hopefully the Constitutional Reform Panel will get named soon and they'll get about the business of the proposed reforms.  Then it's up to the 44 delegates to approve the changes (or not).  I think Corvaro did an excellent job (better than Tim Kee and Lewis), explaining the reason for the delay and the genesis and purpose of the proposed changes.  Hopefully, these changes will be accepted at the next AGM.

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2014, 05:36:00 PM »
Two documents from the IFRC. Some analysis of the constitution of the TTFA by Winston Thompson from 2011:


MEMORANDUM

TO:      MR. GWENWYN CUST, PRESIDENT OF VETERANS FOOTBALLERS
      FOUNDATION OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO

FROM:   WINSTON THOMPSON

DATE:      24TH OCTOBER, 2011

RE:      TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION



The game of football (“soccer”) in Trinidad and Tobago is under the control of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (“the Association”) duly incorporated by a private Act of Parliament, No. 17 of 1982 (“the Act”). 

Prior to its incorporation the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association was an unincorporated association of individual Clubs. 

By Section 4 of the Act the affairs of the Association are to be managed by a General Council under the powers and procedures as prescribed in the Constitution and Rules of the Association.

By Section 5(b) of the Act all the rights, privileges and advantages of the General Council of the Association prior to the incorporation as aforesaid are transferred and conferred on the Association.

By Section 8(1) of the Act the Association is given power under the Act to make Rules as it deems necessary and by sub-section (2) of the said Section 8 of the Act, the Rules of the Association before it was incorporated, that is to say, when the Association was an unincorporated body, those Rules existed before the coming into force of the Act would be the Rules which would govern the affairs of the Association.

It is trite to say that as part of the proper regulation of the game of football, Rules are made and the rules of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association since incorporation are in the form now of a legislative code, that is to say, a set of Regulations laid down by the governing body to be observed all who are, or who become, members of the Association. 

It is not lawful therefore for an extraneous body to make such Rules which as stated earlier form part of the legislation code, to regulate and govern the game of football in Trinidad and Tobago.  According to the Act the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association is the body, that is to say, by Section 2 of the Act it is called “the Association”, and that Association has not been empowered under the Act to delegate its executive or legislative powers to any other body. 

From all reports the affairs of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association have now been discontinued or abandoned and there is no provision in the Act that the affairs of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association shall vest in anyone or anybody upon such discontinuance or abandonment.

For the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association to be dissolved there must be an Act of Parliament to repeal the Act of 1982.  It cannot be repealed by implication unless there is a subsequent Act of Parliament enacting the same provisions which are inconsistent with the provisions of the first Act, in other words, both enactments cannot stand together.  That is not the case here.

The document therefore which is entitled “Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation – Constitution” is therefore a document that is ultra vires the 1982 Act and as such null and void.  The remedy to be pursued to reverse this situation is for an application to be made to the Court for an Order restraining those persons of the Trinidad and Tobago Federation from continuing to act as the General Council established by the Act or any committee or committees thereof and/or from managing or intermeddling into the affairs of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association or performing or continuing or attempting to perform any of the functions or duties of the General Council of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association.  An Order will also be asked in respect of accounts and enquiries and such costs as are incidental to the application. 

Finally there is a registration by a certain Oliver Camps of the name “Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation” under the provisions of the Registration of Business Names Act, Chapter 82:85.  This Act provides for the registration of firms and persons carrying on business under business names and for purposes connected therewith. 

By Section 3(1)(b) of that Act, every individual having a place of business and carrying on business under a business name which does not consist of his or her true surname is required to be registered in the manner directed by this particular Act.  In other words therefore the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation is the sole business of Mr. Oliver Camps.  It is not as for instance what has been stated in the preamble of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association Act, No. 17 of 1982 which states “whereas for many years there has been established and functioning in Trinidad and Tobago an association known as “The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association’.” 

By Section 11 of this said Act it is stated that where any statement which is required to be furnished under the Act contains matters which are false in any material particular to the knowledge of any person signing the form, that person is liable to a fine of $1,000.00 and to imprisonment for three (3) months. 

It is also interesting to note that in Section 20(1)(a) of the Act every individual who uses the trade name as registered shall also in all business letters and cards etc., state his present name or initial thereof or present surname and his nationality, if not a Commonwealth citizen.  Failure to do so exposes the individual to a fine of $200.00 but prosecution can only be done with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.


Winston Thompson



MEMORANDUM

TO:      MR. GWENWYN CUST, PRESIDENT OF VETERANS FOOTBALLERS
      FOUNDATION OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO

FROM:   WINSTON THOMPSON

DATE:      2nd December, 2011

RE:      TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO FOOTBALL FEDERATION



I have examined the document which you passed to me entitled “Trinidad and Tobago Federation (Incorporated by the Act of Parliament No. 17 of 1982) founded in 1908 CONSTITUTION.

The very first thing that strikes me is that this so called organisation was not incorporated by the said Act of Parliament No. 17 of 1982.  In a previous Opinion I was of the view that any Act of Parliament could only be changed or varied by another Act of Parliament amending or repealing same as the case may be.

In fact in October 2009 an attempt was made by the Federation to legalise itself whereby the introduction of a Bill in Parliament for the incorporation of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation and for matters incidental thereto was presented but such Bill in January of 2010 lapsed when Parliament was prorogued.  In that particular Bill, that is to say, for the incorporation of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation, there was an express provision for the repeal of Act No. 17 of 1982, that is to say, the repeal of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association. 

The document under review, i.e. the “Constitution” of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation has been badly drafted and it is doubtful whether a legally trained person, that is to say an attorney-at-law admitted to practise, was the author of this document.  If he or she were, then the lack of experience in matters of the sort is evident.

From a legal standpoint the so called Federation is not a properly recognised legal entity.  It has not been incorporated by an Act of Parliament.  Similarly it has not been registered under the Companies Act in order to give it legal recognition, authority and competence.

If therefore the so called Federation is not an incorporated body then the only sensible conclusion one can really come to is that it is what is called in law an Unincorporated Association.  The characteristics of an Unincorporated Association is that membership is based on an agreement.  Such agreement is that two or more persons are bound together for one or more common purposes, not being business purposes, by mutual undertaking, each having mutual duties and obligations, in an organisation with Rules, which identifies in whom control of it and its funds rests and on what terms  and which can be joined or left at one’s will.

I have looked at the document in order to answer this question:-

How can anyone join the Federation?

The answer is that no one can join the Federation directly.  It does not state how membership can be obtained and through what means. 

I can find nothing which links contractually and directly members of any Club to the Federation.  There must be a contractual link between members of clubs which are part of the Federation, to the Federation.  This lack of a contractual link is very clear and no where in the document can one ascertain how or through what means members are linked together. 

The only conclusion one can come to therefore is that anyone joining a football club by that very act entirely accepts the linkage to the Federation in that he automatically becomes a member of an Unincorporated Association (which is the Federation) so that once a footballer joins his club he impliedly agrees to become linked to the Federation.

It must be remembered that the defining nature of an Unincorporated Association is that its foundation is in a contractual relationship.  The real problem with this document is that that question has not been answered and no where in the document is there any evidence to discover when this Unincorporated Association which is said to exist was formed.  If it is accepted that this body is an Unincorporated Association and as such is a creature of contract, the agreement which brought it about must have been made on some identifiable occasion or in some identifiable circumstances. No where in the document can I find the Federation’s history and the document does not refer to any such occasion or circumstances.  According to the document it has been incorporated by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (Incorporation) Act, 1982.  This as has been explained, is not fact.  I therefore can find no reference in the history of the Federation which looks like the beginning of such an association. The procedure for election of the General Council and Executive Committees and other Committees is contained in the document.  However, the document does not state who made these Rules.  The officers of the Federation who received donations or subventions and other subscriptions for purposes of the Federation do not hold them as trustees since the law does not recognise trusts for non-charitable purposes.  It may be that they could use the funds for their own purposes.  The only form of holding which makes any legal sense at all is that the officers of the Federation hold the funds for the benefit of the members of the Federation, and being an Unincorporated Association to be used by them as they see fit.

From the above it is plain that this “working back” kind of reasoning is a most unsatisfactory way of establishing the existence of this Unincorporated Association (called a Federation) which could only have come into existence as a result of an agreement between two or more persons.  It is most unsatisfactory because it ignores the basic understanding that most people intend when they form an Association, which basically is a bond of union between the members of the Association based on contractual rights and obligations, expect the Courts to respect those rights and obligations and to enforce them when necessary.  This is lacking in this document.


Winston Thompson

Offline Tallman

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2015, 03:35:44 PM »
Trinidad and Tobago Football Clubs and Stakeholders must decide on their Constitution
VFFOTT


The Veteran Footballers Foundation (VFFOTT) will hold an important meeting on Sunday 11th January 2015 at the Barataria Sport Complex at 10:30am to discuss action to be taken with the deafening silence of the football clubs and stakeholders in the TTFA particularly the longstanding clubs, on the nonconformity with respect to adhering to the present Constitution that governs Trinidad and Tobago football at this time.

Mr. Selby Browne, Vice President, VFFOTT, said the ongoing state of Football Administration in Trinidad and Tobago is clearly unacceptable.

The attempt by outside parties (FIFA included) to instruct or facilitate nonconformity to the present Constitution of the TTFA, MUST be challenged legally in the courts of our Republic soonest.

The draft constitution reportedly approved by FIFA must be presented to football clubs and stakeholders in Trinidad and Tobago for review prior to any further discussion, action, or formal presentation for approval.

In addition any TTFA proposal for the restructure of the administration and operation of football in Trinidad and Tobago must also be presented to the clubs and stakeholders for consideration prior to any further action.

VFFOTT must continue advocacy to ensure better conditions for footballers present and future given the regretful condition under which Trinidad and Tobago football continues to be administered. The footballers are our greatest asset.

VFFOTT Secretariat
January 8th 2015
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2015, 04:23:48 PM »
VFFOTT clearly don't know what's going on. 

Quote
The attempt by outside parties (FIFA included) to instruct or facilitate nonconformity to the present Constitution of the TTFA, MUST be challenged legally in the courts of our Republic soonest.

There's nothing to challenge in court.  The TTFA is a member of FIFA, without FIFA membership the TTFA exists in theory only.  The present TTFA statutes are not in compliance with FIFA statutes and need to be brought into compliance.  Whether VFFOTT sees this as "interference" or not... there is no choice if the TTFA wants to remain a member of FIFA.  The TTFA does not enjoy special privileges which allows for it to exist by a separate set of regulations than every other member FA around the world.

Quote
The draft constitution reportedly approved by FIFA must be presented to football clubs and stakeholders in Trinidad and Tobago for review prior to any further discussion, action, or formal presentation for approval.

There is no draft Constitution... there are recommended changes to the Constitution (recommended by the Independent Reform Commission), which much first be accepted by the Constitutional Reform Panel, made up of local football stakeholders.  When they are done with adopting the recommendations/or not, then the vote goes before the football stakeholders (VFFOTT, PFL, SSFL, Super League etc.).

And just like that... meeting over in 5 minutes.

Next.

Offline Sando

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2015, 04:39:37 AM »
Anyone have a copy of the new Constitution?

I know Sheldon Phillips said it will be release to the public this month.


Offline Sam

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Re: Reform commission for TTFA.
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2015, 06:58:15 AM »
Like de Constitution get lost in de sea allyuh.

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