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Author Topic: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines  (Read 8134 times)

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National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« on: November 28, 2014, 11:14:15 PM »
FIFA red tape blocks Winchester and Plaza.
Central F.C. Press Release


T&T Internationals, Willis Plaza and Rundell Winchester have spent the last 2 months unable to play competitive football due to FIFA red tape.

Both players moved from Central F.C. to Belgian club C.S.Vise where they joined their former Central F.C. coach, Terry Fenwick.

“I thought it would be a great move in my career” said 27 year old Plaza. “I wanted to play in Europe and although Vise wasn’t a top club, I thought it would put me in the shop window to get me to a bigger club”
But things quickly went wrong for both players when their salaries were not paid.

“Vise is a nice club” said 20 year old Winchester ”And I thought working with Terry again would help me get used to playing overseas. Vise gave us nice apartments and things were going well until we didn’t get paid.”

The players still hadn’t been paid in September as directors left the club and those left behind struggled to find new finance. Meanwhile, the players were becoming so desperate that they were asking friends and family to send money from T&T to cover basic living expenses.

Meanwhile, Central F.C. were also chasing money owed by C.S.Vise. “We transferred Rundell to C.S.Vise in a deal that would see the Belgian club pay a fee in three tranches.”

Said Operations Director, Kevin Harrison. “When the Belgian club missed the first payment date, we contacted them only to find that the club was suffering from financial difficulties. We also learned that the boys hadn’t been paid, which was a breach of their contracts.”

Three weeks after the first transfer payment was due and it was clear, would not be paid in the near future, and realising that Winchester had still not been paid by Vise, Central F.C.’s board decided that they would recall the speedy Tobagonian and pay for his flight home.

“Had it just been a matter of waiting for the transfer fee, we may not have called Rundell back, but he was literally penniless in a foreign country.” said Harrison. Hearing that Winchester was returning to T&T, Plaza also approached Central F.C. for assistance.

“We spoke to Dexter Skeene at the Pro League and I wrote two letters to Sheldon Phillips at TTFA explaining the player’s situation, and Sheldon promised to “look into it” It appeared to be a straightforward process to bring the guys home and register them with Central.” said Harrison.

“Vise had breached their transfer agreement with Central F.C. and breached their contracts with the players. The Belgian club supported the players return to T&T and even agreed to instigate their international transfers via FIFA’s TMS system.”

But once the players returned to T&T, the situation became more difficult. “We uploaded their information on the TMS system and waited for approval, but it never came through.” Said Harrison.

“We kept updating Sheldon and asking about progress. On 30th September, Sheldon had still “heard nothing from the Belgian F.A.” By this time, both players were in training with Central F.C. We had paid for their flights, provided housing for them and were helping them out with some cash. But they could not play for Central until FIFA authorised their registration.”

On the 10th October, Central F.C. composed a letter to FIFA’s Player’s Status Committee, but being unable to locate any contact details, sent the letter to Phillips who informed Harrison that the committee didn’t use email, but he would forward the complaint to the Belgian F.A.

“3 days later, I sent a letter concerning Plaza to Sheldon, asking him to forward this to the Player’s Status Committee. Again, Sheldon replied that he would see what he could do.”

Harrison said he wrote again to Sheldon Phillips on 26th October explaining that Central were basically financially supporting both players yet were unable to play them. He also pointed out that both players may well be possible selections for Stephen Hart’s Caribbean Cup squad if they were match fit.

Phillips replied that he would follow up with FIFA the next day and that a provisional registration may be the best option.

On 29th October, Central F.C. received 2 letters from FIFA’s Director of Legal Affairs. While the letters stated that the players ordinarily could not be registered outside of the FIFA transfer window, they did point out that with the support of the “competent deciding authority” it was possible that FIFA could take provisional measures to authorise their registrations.

After discussing the matter with Phillips, Harrison wrote to him on 31st October requesting that FIFA authorise the registrations.

On 7th November, Phillips sent a TTFA “player clearance and registration” form for each player, which was hoped would allow them to finally register with Central F.C.

The forms were completed and emailed back the same day, but unfortunately, despite several attempts to several of Phillip’s email addresses, the emails bounced back.

Finally the forms were hand delivered to the TTFA office. Once the forms were completed, Phillips said they just needed to be sent to the Pro League office to confirm clearance for the players to be registered.

“However, once we sent the forms to the Pro League, we were told by General Secretary, Julia Baptiste that the TTFA forms could not be used to replace the necessary transfer forms and that we would need to obtain transfer certificates or an official letter from FIFA.’ explained Harrison. By this time both the players and Central F.C. staff were becoming exasperated by the drawn out process.

“We just couldn’t understand why we couldn’t resolve the issue. As far as we could tell, both players were free agents. Their basic right to earn their living was being denied and, to us, it was simply a matter of cutting through the red tape to solve the problem.” said Harrison.

“Remember, none of this was caused by the players. Both had not been paid by their club and Winchester’s transfer had been null and void due to non payment of the agreed fee. We thought that the FIFA TMS was supposed to remove these barriers.”

Finally, Phillips advised Harrison that it looked like the players could not be registered until the January transfer window.

“This just doesn’t seem right” said Plaza, who personally visited the TTFA office to protest his situation. “FIFA are supposed to make sure that clubs don’t mistreat players. My career has been put on hold for 3 months just because of paperwork.

We are the victims here. I know Central has done everything they can, but I’m disappointed in the lack of support from TTFA. We’re national team players and deserve the support of TTFA. We’re owed money by C.S.Vise and now we’re being stopped from earning a living by FIFA. It’s just wrong.”

“I don’t understand all of the terminology” said Winchester. “All I want to do is play football. That’s what I’m supposed to be paid to do. Mr Phillips is paid to deal with FIFA and other countries associations.

I can’t do that myself. I feel very let down by TTFA because I’ve done nothing wrong yet I’m missing out on games for Central and the national team and I’m owed money by Vise. We need a players union here because TTFA doesn’t seem to want to fight for us.”

Harrison said that he had not been copied in to any of the correspondence between TTFA and FIFA or the Belgian F.A.

“We put all of our faith in Sheldon, who I have a positive relationship with. We can only assume that FIFA is not interested in assisting these players, which, in itself, is shocking. Player’s careers are being damaged, yet it is not them who acted incorrectly.

Meanwhile, Central F.C. have lost the use of a valuable player for half a season due to C.S.Vise reneging on the transfer agreement and FIFA refusing to allow Winchester to register. Add to that the money we spent to bring them home and the financial support we have given them since they arrived back.”

Harrison said that something is very wrong with the FIFA systems if clubs can renege on transfers and breach player contracts, yet refuse to assist the victims of such actions. “Where is the protection for local clubs and players when dealing with clubs overseas?

We’re not sports lawyers. We rely on the guidance of TTFA in these matters. There is only so much we can do. After that, we must rely on TTFA to fight our corner”

Meanwhile, Winchester and Plaza continue to watch from the sidelines while their careers are at a standstill.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:07:44 PM by SWO_TNTFAN »

Offline royal

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 01:52:08 AM »
sad story but in the future check dem small clubs out please (due diligence), before you'll send players over.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 04:11:27 AM »
I don't understand why Plaza is blaming the TTFA?

Isn't this coming from FIFA?

They have to wait until the January transfer window?

Maybe I misunderstood?

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2014, 06:41:33 AM »
Another sad story of players being caught in the middle passage and just being sold and enslaved as a commodity.  I am not seeing how theTTFA is to be blamed here. While the Central FC is appearing to be actively supporting the players, it seems to be done so as aan action to procure their alleged assets.

What part of the. Story is being left out? When these players were given this opportunity, all hailed former. Coach Terry F-  I noticed there is no mention here of his role  or offers of assistance at what appears to be a despicable situation for. The players when they were in foreign soil,

I noticed in all Mr. Harrison's reported. Action to rectify the situation, no mention of contacting former coach to seek assistance or support. For the process. Did this. Said boss not have. A moral imperative to assist players who appeared to be left out in the leach?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2014, 07:18:55 AM »
It's a Central FC press release (that appears to have been) issued after exhausting all patience and processes on the matter.

The release is designed to set the air clear regarding Central's actions on the matter. However, that's the least important part (of the purpose) of the release. The release points to 'a person or persons' effin up through either a lack of sufficient advocacy, dilatory conduct (essentially, not doing shit on time), and/or a lack of due diligence (lehwe call this, responsibly ascertaining what should/must me done and properly doing that which should/must be done).

That there's no substantiation of (elements of) the communication between the federation and FIFA ... with Central as a party with a material interest in the outcome not being included/copied on the represented communication seems to be where the other purpose of the release lies ... (they said they did X, but how do we know they did X? We weren't included in the communication ... and we should have been included). Also raises other questions ...

Let me cut to the chase ... this isn't a matter that is novel in the modern experience of ballers involved in foreign transfers that doh work out. It is Central's first experience dealing with the issue on this protracted level, but it isn't FIFA's ...

It won't be going out on a limb to assert that the Belgian FA likely has a clear position with respect to this situation.

Who is left? The TTFA ... if they decide to make a responsive pronouncement on the matter, we will hear their account ... so I need not comment on that.

However, I wouldn't be surprised should the response issue Central a clout fuh injecting this dialogue into the public domain. Oh gorm, the implications of it all ... :devil:

The main purpose of the release is to propel the outcome wanted. So ... after de anticipated clout, there will still be questions to answer and 2 ballers to reinstate. Lehwe go!

Make that 2 NATIONAL TEAM ballers.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 07:21:52 AM by asylumseeker »
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2014, 07:23:26 AM »
Why is there a need for Fenwick to comment?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2014, 10:24:20 AM »
I don't understand why Plaza is blaming the TTFA?

Isn't this coming from FIFA?

They have to wait until the January transfer window?

Maybe I misunderstood?



Clubs cannot go directly to foreign F.A.'s  You have to go through your local F.A.  Plaza and Winchester have seen all of the letters that Central has sent. They know that we want the guys registered and that it's costing money with no return for the club. They are frustrated and feel that TTFA could be more proactive. While we know that TTFA are understaffed and have a lot on their plate, the guys main concern is themselves(obviously). Yes, FIFA make the final decision, but they are not convinced that TTFA have pushed this with the correct people in FIFA. The Player's Status Committee is the obvious route, but 8 weeks into the issue, nobody has heard from them despite Central F.C. writing letters to them via TTFA.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2014, 10:25:31 AM »
Another sad story of players being caught in the middle passage and just being sold and enslaved as a commodity.  I am not seeing how theTTFA is to be blamed here. While the Central FC is appearing to be actively supporting the players, it seems to be done so as aan action to procure their alleged assets.

What part of the. Story is being left out? When these players were given this opportunity, all hailed former. Coach Terry F-  I noticed there is no mention here of his role  or offers of assistance at what appears to be a despicable situation for. The players when they were in foreign soil,

I noticed in all Mr. Harrison's reported. Action to rectify the situation, no mention of contacting former coach to seek assistance or support. For the process. Did this. Said boss not have. A moral imperative to assist players who appeared to be left out in the leach?

As I understand it, Fenwick has done all he can. For all we know, he may not have been paid either.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2014, 10:27:55 AM »
sad story but in the future check dem small clubs out please (due diligence), before you'll send players over.

Due diligence? How? You think a club would send us their books? The league is supposed to ensure that their clubs are financially sound. (That's why the Pro League insist on a bond when clubs apply)

FIFA has a Player's Status Committee to protect players and clubs in these situations.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2014, 02:25:25 PM »
Sounds like Central is having a gratuitous moan at the expense of the TTFA.  I don't know the first thing about the player transfer process, but everything is outlined in the FIFA regulations.  Perhaps all the details have not been shared here, but on the face of what has been shared I'm not sure that Central has done everything it needed to do to effectuate the transfer/proper re-registration of the players.  It further strikes me as irresponsible to use this "press release" to give its players a platform to criticize the FA for a process where at best, it's only partially responsible.

8 Administrative procedure governing the transfer of professionals between [the Bulgarian Football Union & the TTFA]

Quote
8.1 Principles
1. Any professional player who is registered with [C.S. Vise] may only be registered with [Central F.C.] after the [BFU] and the [TTFA] has confirmed receipt of the International Transfer Certificate [ITC]. The ITC procedure must be conducted exclusively via TMS. Any form of ITC other than the one created by TMS shall not be recognized.
----------
8.2 Creating an ITC for a professional player
1. All data allowing the [TTFA] to request an ITC shall be entered into TMS, confirmed and matched by [CFC] during one of the registration periods established by [the TTFA]. When entering the relevant data, depending on the selected instruction type, the new club shall upload at least the following documents into TMS:
– a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional player;
– a copy of the transfer or loan agreement concluded between the new club and the former club, if applicable;
– copy of proof of the player’s identity, nationality(ies) and birth date, such as passport or identity card;
– proof of player’s last contract end date and reason for termination. Documents must be uploaded in the format required by FIFA TMS GmbH.
-----------
A professional player is not eligible to play in official matches for [Central F.C.] until [the TTFA] has confirmed the receipt of the ITC and has entered and confirmed the player registration date in TMS (cf. Annexe 3, article 5.2 paragraph 4).
2. Upon notification in the system that the transfer instruction is awaiting an ITC request, [the TTFA] shall immediately request [the BFU] through TMS to deliver an ITC for the professional player (“ITC request”).
3. Upon receipt of the ITC request, [the BFU] shall immediately contact [C.S. Vise] and the professional player to confirm whether the professional player’s contract has expired, whether early termination was mutually agreed or whether there is a contractual dispute.
4. Within seven days of the date of the ITC request, [the BFU], by using the appropriate selection in TMS, either:
a) deliver the ITC in favour of the [TTFA] and enter the deregistration date of the player; or
b) reject the ITC request and indicate in TMS the reason for rejection, which may be either that the contract between [C.S. Vise] and the professional player has not expired or that there has been no mutual agreement regarding its early termination.
5. Once the ITC has been delivered, the [TTFA] shall confirm receipt and complete the relevant player registration information in TMS.
6. If the [TTFA] does not receive a response to the ITC request within 15 days of the ITC request being made, it shall immediately register the professional player with [Central F.C.] on a provisional basis (“provisional registration”). The [TTFA] shall complete the relevant player registration information in TMS (cf. Annexe 3, article 5.2 paragraph 6). A provisional registration shall become permanent one year after the ITC request.
7. The [BFU]shall not deliver an ITC if a contractual dispute on grounds of the circumstances stipulated in Annexe 3, article 8.2 paragraph 4 b) has arisen between [C.S. Vise] and the professional player. In such a case, upon request of the [TTFA], FIFA may take provisional measures in exceptional circumstances. If the competent body authorises the provisional registration (cf. article 23 paragraph 3)

23 Players’ Status Committee
3. The Players’ Status Committee shall adjudicate in the presence of at least three members, including the chairman or the deputy chairman, unless the case is of such a nature that it may be settled by a single judge. In cases that are urgent or raise no difficult factual or legal issues, and for decisions on
the provisional registration of a player in relation to international clearance in accordance with Annexe 3, article 8, and Annexe 3a, the chairman or a person appointed by him, who must be a member of the committee, may adjudicate as a single judge. Each party shall be heard once during the proceedings.
Decisions reached by the single judge or the Players’ Status Committee may be appealed before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

You also state that you couldn't get contact information for the Players' Status Commitee... yet I was able to find it after a simple google search:
Quote
DISPUTE RESOLUTION SYSTEM
Contact
Fax: +41 43 222 77 55

Address: FIFA, Players' Status & Governance Department,
FIFA-Strasse 20, P.O. Box, 8044 Zurich
Switzerland

« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 02:27:08 PM by Bakes »

Offline Bakes

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2014, 02:35:50 PM »
FIFA red tape blocks Winchester and Plaza.
Central F.C. Press Release


We’re not sports lawyers. We rely on the guidance of TTFA in these matters. There is only so much we can do. After that, we must rely on TTFA to fight our corner”

Meanwhile, Winchester and Plaza continue to watch from the sidelines while their careers are at a standstill.



You don't have to be sports lawyers, you just need to understand what the FIFA regulations are and comply with them.  The TTFA can perhaps offer some guidance, but it can't be expected to hold your hands or take up your responsibility for you.  From what I can tell it was your responsibility to ensure that the information was in TMS and then that the ITC request was made to the BFU.  Maybe Central did all of that, but it's not outlined in the press release.  You say that Central understands that the TTFA's staff is limited and they have their hands full, yet you allow your players in this press release to have an unfettered bash at them.  And just in case you're wondering, I haven't been in contact with anybody from the TTFA, as always I'm offering my own opinion on this.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 07:39:07 PM »
Bakes all that is well and good. The TTFA again running from their responsiblity to their players.
Central came to them and they should have taken the lead and sort this out. Central already showed initative and goodwill by assisting the players in a return home and training.

How hard is it then for the TTFA to step in and say guys lets meet and we will hash this out in a couple hours. We will explore the steps necessary in resolving a situation like this and we will get everything done.

Instead, it's a "yeah we will look into it". Why?
Then as per usual you recieve TTFA side and come back on here to try and belittle people with your "knowledge". Can't the f@%king TTFA man up and for f@%king once face the music. How long do you plan to keep explaining away all their mis-steps.

If they will just as thing happen deal with it they wouldn't have to be on the defensive or reactionary all the time.

These people are frustrating as hell man. You would think they would have learnt something from the past group.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 07:40:54 PM by elan »
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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 08:14:28 PM »
Bakes all that is well and good. The TTFA again running from their responsiblity to their players.
Central came to them and they should have taken the lead and sort this out. Central already showed initative and goodwill by assisting the players in a return home and training.

How hard is it then for the TTFA to step in and say guys lets meet and we will hash this out in a couple hours. We will explore the steps necessary in resolving a situation like this and we will get everything done.

Instead, it's a "yeah we will look into it". Why?
Then as per usual you recieve TTFA side and come back on here to try and belittle people with your "knowledge". Can't the f@%king TTFA man up and for f@%king once face the music. How long do you plan to keep explaining away all their mis-steps.

If they will just as thing happen deal with it they wouldn't have to be on the defensive or reactionary all the time.

These people are frustrating as hell man. You would think they would have learnt something from the past group.


I actually haven't spoken to anybody from the TTFA so I have no "TTFA side" to offer.  I don't see what's "belittling" about what I posted.  I read up for myself on the transfer process after a simple google search for "FIFA player transfer regulations".  It really wasn't that hard to find.  You think if Chelsea and Atletico have some sort of transfer dispute the f**king English FA name getting called?  Maybe instead of trying to run up the TTFA ass everytime yuh hear somebody fart, yuh should try educating yuhself as well.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 11:55:39 PM »
Just a simple question: What is the role of TTFA? eh- and I'm not talking about specific personalities here.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2014, 03:18:27 PM »
Bakes all that is well and good. The TTFA again running from their responsiblity to their players.
Central came to them and they should have taken the lead and sort this out. Central already showed initative and goodwill by assisting the players in a return home and training.

How hard is it then for the TTFA to step in and say guys lets meet and we will hash this out in a couple hours. We will explore the steps necessary in resolving a situation like this and we will get everything done.

Instead, it's a "yeah we will look into it". Why?
Then as per usual you recieve TTFA side and come back on here to try and belittle people with your "knowledge". Can't the f@%king TTFA man up and for f@%king once face the music. How long do you plan to keep explaining away all their mis-steps.

If they will just as thing happen deal with it they wouldn't have to be on the defensive or reactionary all the time.

These people are frustrating as hell man. You would think they would have learnt something from the past group.


I actually haven't spoken to anybody from the TTFA so I have no "TTFA side" to offer.  I don't see what's "belittling" about what I posted.  I read up for myself on the transfer process after a simple google search for "FIFA player transfer regulations".  It really wasn't that hard to find.  You think if Chelsea and Atletico have some sort of transfer dispute the f**king English FA name getting called?  Maybe instead of trying to run up the TTFA ass everytime yuh hear somebody fart, yuh should try educating yuhself as well.
/


As per usual, you and the TTFA response is one of assholery. When you take a job in public space you must expect to be criticized, justly or unjustly. A football federation who you can't turn to for footballing help. F@%k me.

I done see this group eh making it for to much longer nah. Some serious growing up needs to happen.
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Offline elan

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2014, 03:35:26 PM »
Sounds like Central is having a gratuitous moan at the expense of the TTFA.  I don't know the first thing about the player transfer process, but everything is outlined in the FIFA regulations.  Perhaps all the details have not been shared here, but on the face of what has been shared I'm not sure that Central has done everything it needed to do to effectuate the transfer/proper re-registration of the players.  It further strikes me as irresponsible to use this "press release" to give its players a platform to criticize the FA for a process where at best, it's only partially responsible.

8 Administrative procedure governing the transfer of professionals between [the Bulgarian Football Union & the TTFA]

Quote
8.1 Principles
1. Any professional player who is registered with [C.S. Vise] may only be registered with [Central F.C.] after the [BFU] and the [TTFA] has confirmed receipt of the International Transfer Certificate [ITC]. The ITC procedure must be conducted exclusively via TMS. Any form of ITC other than the one created by TMS shall not be recognized.
----------
8.2 Creating an ITC for a professional player
1. All data allowing the [TTFA] to request an ITC shall be entered into TMS, confirmed and matched by [CFC] during one of the registration periods established by [the TTFA]. When entering the relevant data, depending on the selected instruction type, the new club shall upload at least the following documents into TMS:
– a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional player;
– a copy of the transfer or loan agreement concluded between the new club and the former club, if applicable;
– copy of proof of the player’s identity, nationality(ies) and birth date, such as passport or identity card;
– proof of player’s last contract end date and reason for termination. Documents must be uploaded in the format required by FIFA TMS GmbH.
-----------
A professional player is not eligible to play in official matches for [Central F.C.] until [the TTFA] has confirmed the receipt of the ITC and has entered and confirmed the player registration date in TMS (cf. Annexe 3, article 5.2 paragraph 4).
2. Upon notification in the system that the transfer instruction is awaiting an ITC request, [the TTFA] shall immediately request [the BFU] through TMS to deliver an ITC for the professional player (“ITC request”).
3. Upon receipt of the ITC request, [the BFU] shall immediately contact [C.S. Vise] and the professional player to confirm whether the professional player’s contract has expired, whether early termination was mutually agreed or whether there is a contractual dispute.
4. Within seven days of the date of the ITC request, [the BFU], by using the appropriate selection in TMS, either:
a) deliver the ITC in favour of the [TTFA] and enter the deregistration date of the player; or
b) reject the ITC request and indicate in TMS the reason for rejection, which may be either that the contract between [C.S. Vise] and the professional player has not expired or that there has been no mutual agreement regarding its early termination.
5. Once the ITC has been delivered, the [TTFA] shall confirm receipt and complete the relevant player registration information in TMS.
6. If the [TTFA] does not receive a response to the ITC request within 15 days of the ITC request being made, it shall immediately register the professional player with [Central F.C.] on a provisional basis (“provisional registration”). The [TTFA] shall complete the relevant player registration information in TMS (cf. Annexe 3, article 5.2 paragraph 6). A provisional registration shall become permanent one year after the ITC request.
7. The [BFU]shall not deliver an ITC if a contractual dispute on grounds of the circumstances stipulated in Annexe 3, article 8.2 paragraph 4 b) has arisen between [C.S. Vise] and the professional player. In such a case, upon request of the [TTFA], FIFA may take provisional measures in exceptional circumstances. If the competent body authorises the provisional registration (cf. article 23 paragraph 3)

23 Players’ Status Committee
3. The Players’ Status Committee shall adjudicate in the presence of at least three members, including the chairman or the deputy chairman, unless the case is of such a nature that it may be settled by a single judge. In cases that are urgent or raise no difficult factual or legal issues, and for decisions on
the provisional registration of a player in relation to international clearance in accordance with Annexe 3, article 8, and Annexe 3a, the chairman or a person appointed by him, who must be a member of the committee, may adjudicate as a single judge. Each party shall be heard once during the proceedings.
Decisions reached by the single judge or the Players’ Status Committee may be appealed before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

You also state that you couldn't get contact information for the Players' Status Commitee... yet I was able to find it after a simple google search:
Quote
DISPUTE RESOLUTION SYSTEM
Contact
Fax: +41 43 222 77 55

Address: FIFA, Players' Status & Governance Department,
FIFA-Strasse 20, P.O. Box, 8044 Zurich
Switzerland

Ok so I just read this that you Bakes posted. To me it seems that CFC did everything they needed to do. Reading that it still comes down to the TTFA. Even after CFC submit everything they still have to turn to the FA.

The matter is they CFC is turning to the FA to ascertain -due to extenuating circumstances- whether or not there maybe some "special" precedent or procedure for handling such a situation. This is not a straight forward transfer situation. It seems Central has that down.

What Central is on about is helping two National Team players who unfortunately found themselves in a bind that has not been experienced before. CS Vise folded and abandoned the players. This is a special circumstance and one the TTFA should be anxious to address and work through.


If this is seen as being "up the FA's ass" then I don't know what situation will require one to seek out the TTFA.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2014, 03:41:12 PM »
As per usual, you and the TTFA response is one of assholery. When you take a job in public space you must expect to be criticized, justly or unjustly. A football federation who you can't turn to for footballing help. F@%k me.

I done see this group eh making it for to much longer nah. Some serious growing up needs to happen.

Your dick so hard fuh de TTFA that it apparently clouding yuh ability to think clearly.  Whatever yuh have against the TTFA aside, take a look at the FIFA regulations as provided, there's even a handy link so yuh could read fuh yuhself... assuming yuh could read that is.  I'll leave it to the TTFA to respond if they care to, but point out where what I posted is "assholery."  I only indulging yuh because it so easy to make yuh out to be the emotional infant that you are.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2014, 03:53:04 PM »
Ok so I just read this that you Bakes posted. To me it seems that CFC did everything they needed to do. Reading that it still comes down to the TTFA. Even after CFC submit everything they still have to turn to the FA.

The matter is they CFC is turning to the FA to ascertain -due to extenuating circumstances- whether or not there maybe some "special" precedent or procedure for handling such a situation. This is not a straight forward transfer situation. It seems Central has that down.

What Central is on about is helping two National Team players who unfortunately found themselves in a bind that has not been experienced before. CS Vise folded and abandoned the players. This is a special circumstance and one the TTFA should be anxious to address and work through.


If this is seen as being "up the FA's ass" then I don't know what situation will require one to seek out the TTFA.

Like I said... you are an emotional infant.  All that guffing up and name-calling and yuh didn't even self bother to read what the regulations state.  Now that yuh read it yuh saying that Central did everything they needed to do.  Really?  Either you have more info or yuh's ah mind reader, because I see nothing from what FS posted that says they followed all the required steps:

Quote
– a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional player;
– a copy of the transfer or loan agreement concluded between the new club and the former club, if applicable;
– copy of proof of the player’s identity, nationality(ies) and birth date, such as passport or identity card;
– proof of player’s last contract end date and reason for termination. Documents must be uploaded in the format required by FIFA TMS GmbH.

Further... FS stated that Central asked the TTFA to take up the issue with FIFA on behalf of the Club.  On October 29 FIFA Legal Office responded... clearly in response to the TTFA initiating an inquiry with FIFA.  So the TTFA did what was requested by Central.  Additionally, FIFA in its response indicated to Central that the Club needed to take up the matter of a provisional registration with the Players' Status Commitee.  FS stated that they couldn't find the contact information for the PSC, even though it's readily available on the internet.  Phillips still was able to pass along Central's concerns to FIFA... but somehow it's the TTFA who's not doing it's job.

I didn't want to say it before, but I'll say it now... what experience do Sancho and Harrison have in running a professional football club?   A couple years at NE Stars and a handful at Central FC, that's it.  I've never tried, but I imagine it's not easy and likely comes with a steep learning curve.  There will be stumbles along the way, and just as they stumbled with the Levi Garcia contract faux pas, it seems like they fumble this one as well.  Chalk it up to a learning experience instead of trying to blame everybody else for your mistakes.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2014, 04:34:19 PM »
Ok so I just read this that you Bakes posted. To me it seems that CFC did everything they needed to do. Reading that it still comes down to the TTFA. Even after CFC submit everything they still have to turn to the FA.

The matter is they CFC is turning to the FA to ascertain -due to extenuating circumstances- whether or not there maybe some "special" precedent or procedure for handling such a situation. This is not a straight forward transfer situation. It seems Central has that down.

What Central is on about is helping two National Team players who unfortunately found themselves in a bind that has not been experienced before. CS Vise folded and abandoned the players. This is a special circumstance and one the TTFA should be anxious to address and work through.


If this is seen as being "up the FA's ass" then I don't know what situation will require one to seek out the TTFA.

Like I said... you are an emotional infant.  All that guffing up and name-calling and yuh didn't even self bother to read what the regulations state.  Now that yuh read it yuh saying that Central did everything they needed to do.  Really?  Either you have more info or yuh's ah mind reader, because I see nothing from what FS posted that says they followed all the required steps:

Quote
– a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional player;
– a copy of the transfer or loan agreement concluded between the new club and the former club, if applicable;
– copy of proof of the player’s identity, nationality(ies) and birth date, such as passport or identity card;
– proof of player’s last contract end date and reason for termination. Documents must be uploaded in the format required by FIFA TMS GmbH.

Further... FS stated that Central asked the TTFA to take up the issue with FIFA on behalf of the Club.  On October 29 FIFA Legal Office responded... clearly in response to the TTFA initiating an inquiry with FIFA.  So the TTFA did what was requested by Central.  Additionally, FIFA in its response indicated to Central that the Club needed to take up the matter of a provisional registration with the Players' Status Commitee.  FS stated that they couldn't find the contact information for the PSC, even though it's readily available on the internet.  Phillips still was able to pass along Central's concerns to FIFA... but somehow it's the TTFA who's not doing it's job.

I didn't want to say it before, but I'll say it now... what experience do Sancho and Harrison have in running a professional football club?   A couple years at NE Stars and a handful at Central FC, that's it.  I've never tried, but I imagine it's not easy and likely comes with a steep learning curve.  There will be stumbles along the way, and just as they stumbled with the Levi Garcia contract faux pas, it seems like they fumble this one as well.  Chalk it up to a learning experience instead of trying to blame everybody else for your mistakes.

It is true that Central are inexperienced in this field. Just as, going by your theory, Sheldon is inexperienced, but I don't see you pointing that out.
The press release did not include every single action that Central F.C. has taken, so I forgive your ignorance of certain procedures.

Quote
– a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional player;
– a copy of the transfer or loan agreement concluded between the new club and the former club, if applicable;
– copy of proof of the player’s identity, nationality(ies) and birth date, such as passport or identity card;
– proof of player’s last contract end date and reason for termination. Documents must be uploaded in the format required by FIFA TMS GmbH.

All of the above are required to complete the information required for the TMS. It clearly states in the release that this was completed, not once, but twice.

After the letters were received from FIFA, Sheldon told me that TTFA could now grant a provisional transfer and sent over a form. This was also in the release.

Apparently, this was not the case. Rather than taking your approach and criticize Sheldon for his "inexperience", we continued to work together to try to resolve this issue.

I can see no reason why the players shouldn't voice their frustrations. No one is actually blaming TTFA, but rather, saying that perhaps they could have tried harder. Sheldon/TTFA are free to voice their thoughts about this. Perhaps even suggest that the more "inexperienced" club administrators attend a special TTFA course?

As for FIFA's fax details, I simply can't believe that they are using such an antiquated form of communication. We don't possess a fax machine (nor do we use hieroglyphics carved into stone). So, we requested TTFA to send the letters (hoping that they may carry more weight and be actioned quicker).

What disturbs me the most is that people are (again) trying to defend TTFA and criticize Central  F.C. when the concerns should be about how players are being denied the right to pursue their careers.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2014, 05:09:00 PM »
It is true that Central are inexperienced in this field. Just as, going by your theory, Sheldon is inexperienced, but I don't see you pointing that out.

For one, I don't know what experience he has dealing with FIFA and international player transfers so I can't comment on that.  If you feel that his inexperience is a factor then I will leave that for you to point out.

The press release did not include every single action that Central F.C. has taken, so I forgive your ignorance of certain procedures.

I already made allowances for the fact that "[p]erhaps all the details have not been shared here".

Quote
– a copy of the contract between the new club and the professional player;
– a copy of the transfer or loan agreement concluded between the new club and the former club, if applicable;
– copy of proof of the player’s identity, nationality(ies) and birth date, such as passport or identity card;
– proof of player’s last contract end date and reason for termination. Documents must be uploaded in the format required by FIFA TMS GmbH.

All of the above are required to complete the information required for the TMS. It clearly states in the release that this was completed, not once, but twice.

It's only now that you're saying that everything was done as required.

"But once the players returned to T&T, the situation became more difficult. “We uploaded their information on the TMS system and waited for approval, but it never came through.” Said Harrison."


After the letters were received from FIFA, Sheldon told me that TTFA could now grant a provisional transfer and sent over a form. This was also in the release.

Details matter... in your release it states "On 7th November, Phillips sent a TTFA “player clearance and registration” form for each player, which was hoped would allow them to finally register with Central F.C.  You didn't state that you were given a guarantee that everything was a go.

Apparently, this was not the case. Rather than taking your approach and criticize Sheldon for his "inexperience", we continued to work together to try to resolve this issue.

I can see no reason why the players shouldn't voice their frustrations. No one is actually blaming TTFA, but rather, saying that perhaps they could have tried harder. Sheldon/TTFA are free to voice their thoughts about this. Perhaps even suggest that the more "inexperienced" club administrators attend a special TTFA course?

Are you kidding?  The players have every right to voice their frustrations, perhaps your 'inexperience' prevents you from realizing that a press release states the Club's official position.  If you include the players' criticism of the FA in your press release you are adopting them as your own.  It is clear that the players blame the FA for not doing enough:

"We are the victims here. I know Central has done everything they can, but I’m disappointed in the lack of support from TTFA. We’re national team players and deserve the support of TTFA."

The suggestion about educational programs by the TTFA is a good one and would have been the better route to go in my opinion, than posting this public jeremiad taking the TTFA to task.  It makes no difference to me, but it's hardly the way to go about building a consensual relationship.


As for FIFA's fax details, I simply can't believe that they are using such an antiquated form of communication. We don't possess a fax machine (nor do we use hieroglyphics carved into stone). So, we requested TTFA to send the letters (hoping that they may carry more weight and be actioned quicker).

The telephone number is listed, as well as the mailing address, along with the fax number.  You had every opportunity to contact the PSC, speake to someone, and maybe find out if an email could be sent in the interest of time.  Instead you punted it to the TTFA then complained that they weren't working fast enough.  You can't force them to make your priority their own, on top of everything else they're dealing with.

What disturbs me the most is that people are (again) trying to defend TTFA and criticize Central  F.C. when the concerns should be about how players are being denied the right to pursue their careers.

You (Central) are the ones who are trying to make this a blame game.  Anybody would sympathize with the players and their frustrations at this point, but you decided to make this all about how the TTFA doesn't care enough about the players.  Nobody could fault you for making procedural errors in light of your inexperience, it's commendable that you're willing to try.  As a business owner I make mistakes all the time, thankfully most are not serious.  However I know better than to blame others for my failings, and even if Phillips' inexperience might have played a part (as you insinuate), having a go at the TTFA via your players is hardly the smart thing to do.  But, as Kermit says... that's none of my business.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 05:12:07 PM by Bakes »

Offline elan

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2014, 05:22:50 PM »
As per usual, you and the TTFA response is one of assholery. When you take a job in public space you must expect to be criticized, justly or unjustly. A football federation who you can't turn to for footballing help. F@%k me.

I done see this group eh making it for to much longer nah. Some serious growing up needs to happen.

Your dick so hard fuh de TTFA that it apparently clouding yuh ability to think clearly.  Whatever yuh have against the TTFA aside, take a look at the FIFA regulations as provided, there's even a handy link so yuh could read fuh yuhself... assuming yuh could read that is.  I'll leave it to the TTFA to respond if they care to, but point out where what I posted is "assholery."  I only indulging yuh because it so easy to make yuh out to be the emotional infant that you are.


You're the one throwing the tantrum. I have nothing against the TTFA, why would you think that? Because I call out the bs that they do? How simple. I was always told growing up that yuh true friends will tell yuh yuh look fat in dem jeans.

Anyone that criticize is against the TTFA?  That's paranoia. Actually I want to see the TTFA be very successful, for a number of reasons. That does not mean I won't point out their short comings. I criticize my family everytime they do a piece ah arseness. Does that mean I don't want to see them succeed?

This all or nothing mentality must stop. Let's get our duck in a row, let's act professional, let's assist players, and let's generate support for the game. We can't do that with emotions out of control. We have to put on our big boys pants and handle situations like a boss. I maybe infant, but I know what professionalism, feels like, sounds like, and looks like; no one can baffle me with bs.

I will leave yuh with ah lil quote from US soccer, "Player development must be CENTRAL to all decisions being made by administrators, coaches...".
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 05:26:32 PM by elan »
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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2014, 05:37:46 PM »
All of that and still yuh can't say where, according to the regulations the TTFA went wrong. It's called constructive criticism, point out where they went wrong and how according to the rules they could've done better. Don't just criticize for the sake of. Based on everything FS has stated, the first question I would have is whether Phillips sent an ITC request to the Bulgarian Football Union after the information was uploaded into the TMS. This would've been the second necessary step towards triggering the re-registration process for the players back in Trinidad.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 05:39:49 PM by Bakes »

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2014, 07:10:20 PM »
All of that and still yuh can't say where, according to the regulations the TTFA went wrong. It's called constructive criticism, point out where they went wrong and how according to the rules they could've done better. Don't just criticize for the sake of. Based on everything FS has stated, the first question I would have is whether Phillips sent an ITC request to the Bulgarian Belgian Football Union after the information was uploaded into the TMS. This would've been the second necessary step towards triggering the re-registration process for the players back in Trinidad.

I have no idea what actions TTFA took other than the contact made with FIFA's legal dept. I did request copies of all correspondence, but still have not received any.

While the press release would not have been the choice of others, we have always tried to relate concerns to the football public. At times we have had to concede that our actions have not been impeccable. But that should not mean we hide away and keep quiet. If this issue helps others in the future, all well and good. At this point, I see no reason for Sheldon to be vexed. We've stated his actions in support of the players. It is clear that he tried to help. The fact that Central & the players feel that he may have tried a little harder is an obvious sentiment which Sheldon can easily reply to. We know he has a lot to deal with and a small staff to work with. He will prioritise as he sees fit. His judgement call may be correct, but we would still have not had the issue resolved, so will feel hard done by.
Like if a lawyer tried his hardest to defend an indefensible case. He may have done everything in his power, but the defendant may still complain that his lawyer didn't fight hard enough.

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2014, 08:04:34 PM »
but FS, yuh don't bad talk the same lawyer yuh gonna use to win yuh an appeal...the Press Release with the players venting, was just bad business..
So what you are saying is the TTFA inept, not working "hard enuff", not working in the best interest of the National team, and Central, thus football in the country, therefore not doing their jobs...but we will call them tomorrow 1st thing to see what we can work together with them to get done...and sure nuff, is our call they will take 1st, cause is we write them up, showing how we love them, and want to see them do good nah....besides, we is the only call they will get...no other calls coming in, so they must deal with us immediately..riiighht !

smh
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 08:06:28 PM by maxg »

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2014, 08:05:29 PM »
All of that and still yuh can't say where, according to the regulations the TTFA went wrong. It's called constructive criticism, point out where they went wrong and how according to the rules they could've done better. Don't just criticize for the sake of. Based on everything FS has stated, the first question I would have is whether Phillips sent an ITC request to the Bulgarian Football Union after the information was uploaded into the TMS. This would've been the second necessary step towards triggering the re-registration process for the players back in Trinidad.

I do not think the TTFA  need or needed to defend themselves from this issue. This issue, the correct action would've/would be that of empathy with the players. Central showed the players that they are working hard to help rectify the situation and the FA just had/have to do the same.

TTFA Press Release re:CS Vise

It is with great sympathy that we have to address such an unfortunate situation in which our hard working players find themselves. It is a tough predicament for players to leave their homeland in an effort to pursue their dreams and find themselves abandoned and alone in a strange land.

We, as everyone involved with this issue is working tediuosly to bring some form of satisfaction and closure for the players in an effort to allow term to continue to participate in the game they have dedicated themselves to and love.

We, along with Central Football Club have been working together to have this situation resolved ASAP.We have completed thee necessary documentation required and submitted them to the relevant authority. We are also in the process of exploring further action which may see the players return to action sooner rather than later.

Again, we are truly sorry that our players have had to deal with such situations but together we will over come them, because together we aspire, together we achieve.  :))

Trini to de Bone
TTFA Crew.  ^-^
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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2014, 09:46:52 PM »
Spot on maxg. 

At any rate FS, it's only one more month until the January window, but if you guys want to press the issue I think the place to start would be to check to see if an International Transfer Certificate was requested by the TTFA of the Belgian FA.  That failing, see if the process could be expedited so as to avoid going to the Players' Status Committee.  If not, then at least now you have their contact info  ;)

But again, only 4 more weeks until this naturally resolves, so...

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2014, 10:44:32 PM »
Spot on maxg. 

At any rate FS, it's only one more month until the January window, but if you guys want to press the issue I think the place to start would be to check to see if an International Transfer Certificate was requested by the TTFA of the Belgian FA.  That failing, see if the process could be expedited so as to avoid going to the Players' Status Committee.  If not, then at least now you have their contact info  ;)

But again, only 4 more weeks until this naturally resolves, so...

It seems that all we can do is wait.....which is why the press release was issued. Although some feel the release was not called for, we wanted to highlight the situation so that players and the public understand that things aren't always clear cut. Not only have these guys lost their income, Central have lost the services of a player for half a season. Maybe we can get compensation, but we would rather have had the points they may have secured. Also, the national team has lost the ability to call them. Who knows, maybe these two players could have made a difference against Jamaica (even if it was only to give key players a rest during the tournament?)

The situation is unfair to both players and club who have acted in good faith. While the compensatory aspects were being resolved, the players should have been allowed to continue their careers.

If we now find a better, more streamlined method of helping players in the future, then the release served it's purpose.

MaxG, are you really saying that you should never complain if your not satisfied? Is that your concept of free speech and democracy? If your BigMac is cold, you just eat it because you don't want them to spit in your next burger? How would things ever improve if we're afraid to raise our hands? Maybe Sheldon thought he'd done a great job, and now he may think: hmmm, perhaps I could have done this or tried that to help speed things along.

A complaint is an opportunity to shine. While Elan's "press release" is a little flowery, such a release from TTFA would be a positive P.R. move, especially in the current spell of negative press.   

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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2014, 08:24:03 AM »
Central FC signed a poor deal and sent their players to a club that was known to have major financial problems.

They simply signed away the rights of the players and made no provisions in case the team didn't fulfill the contracts.

Since the players left after the transfer window opened and they didn't go through the proper procedures the Belgian FA has for player disputes, they could not get a just cause release of their contracts.

So they have to wait until the next transfer window is open.

When all else fails, blame the TTFA.

I doubt Sheldon will spitefully do things to affect any players.

Central FC wanted a quick buck and did not think about the players interest and now they are looking for a scapegoat.


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Re: National Team Footballers Dumped On The Sidelines
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2014, 08:26:47 AM »
Central FC signed a poor deal and sent their players to a club that was known to have major financial problems.

They simply signed away the rights of the players and made no provisions in case the team didn't fulfill the contracts.

Since the players left after the transfer window opened and they didn't go through the proper procedures the Belgian FA has for player disputes, they could not get a just cause release of their contracts.

So they have to wait until the next transfer window is open.

When all else fails, blame the TTFA.

I doubt Sheldon will spitefully do things to affect any players.

Central FC wanted a quick buck and did not think about the players interest and now they are looking for a scapegoat.


unusual to see you dealing in  :bs: