Fitness is a Huge Problem

[KND2]

These guys are not fit.

Is one thing to talk about heat and days rest etc

but fitness is fitness.

from the start to the end we were slower and did not have the required intensity.

As Hart mention we are not playing in the same leagues as our opponents.



Nowadays men wearing heart monitors in training and computers monitoring distance travelled and average velocity.

without tools how can we know which players and which areas need fitness work.

We still asking man to run laps and hoping for the best.

[royal]

sad but true.

[Controversial]

These guys are not fit.

Is one thing to talk about heat and days rest etc

but fitness is fitness.

from the start to the end we were slower and did not have the required intensity.

As Hart mention we are not playing in the same leagues as our opponents.



Nowadays men wearing heart monitors in training and computers monitoring distance travelled and average velocity.

without tools how can we know which players and which areas need fitness work.

We still asking man to run laps and hoping for the best.

I agree but if you're liming the night before it doesn't help either...

[Deeks]

How allyuh know them guys were liming?

[Controversial]

How allyuh know them guys were liming?

Right now it is speculation.. AB heard a few friends in New York talking that they know a number of the players were in small limes the nit before the game.. So we were thinking why would these people lie?

But if you think of it, the team was dead tired and that could translate to them liming the night before..

Mexico and Costa Rica had the same schedule like us, with the same amount of rest and they still ran all game..

[palos]

Of course the guys not fit.....this is not new information.

Pro League fit and International fit are 2 different things completely. 

Nearly half the side playing at a below professional league level...doh mind what they call it

Our players play with heart and soul all tournament...especially yesterday despite coming to a gun battle with caps guns...and were in position to still win.

But all people could do is waste them down while indulging in idle, idiotic speculation.

f**ked up I tell you.

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

How allyuh know them guys were liming?

Right now it is speculation.. AB heard a few friends in New York talking that they know a number of the players were in small limes the nit before the game.. So we were thinking why would these people lie?

But if you think of it, the team was dead tired and that could translate to them liming the night before..

Mexico and Costa Rica had the same schedule like us, with the same amount of rest and they still ran all game..

Imagine man visit family and a few players tag along (including ones from the same village that also know the family being visited) and it turn into players were liming the night before.  People rell like idle talk boi

[KND2]

that limining thing is nonsense.

it is the automatic trini response to failure

too much party "blah blah"

distracts from the realty


which is,
As a professional footballer it is your responsibility to be fit, to take yourself personally to the next level.

Yorke used to party the most out of anyone but on the field he working.

Jovin Jones, Kenyane Jones walking on the field from minute one to minute 120 in the panama match.

These men playing for big clubs

Cryus aint play in the last game bun like a dog could not make a step in the last minutes cramping up. How must rest he need to be ready to run 90 minutes.

Peltieir come on after 60 mintutes and could not provide any work rate for 30 mins?


Yes if you big and strong and can butt a ball I will put you on my team and pay you a million pounds to come on the field and score a few goals.

But where is the personnal desire to be able to play a "running" game for 90 minutes
Where is the work ethic

Talent is the mask that does hide the deficencies.

example
Jovin Jones have talent, he can run at defenders with great speed and trickery...that is a talent.
we will play him on the team irregrdless of the fact that defensively he does not run back and is work rate is inconsistient especially defensively.


compare description above to say Hazzard or Willian for Chelsea who running back every time.
why
because of the metality and the desire for success.
because of expectation set by the coaching staff

Unless the players have that personal desire inside and the coaching staff have the balls to demand it where we really going.


You have to have the basics


Fitness
positional awareness
Shape
effort
intensity

basic things all players at this level have to have, without these dont go on the field.

the extra skills and ability means nothing without the foundation.

our team consist of too many players who missing the foundation because as a people we gravitate to the  "Talent"


K Jones was walking on the field in the Guatemala game ist half
He was walking on the field in the gold cup 2 years ago
He was walking on the field in the caribbean cup last year

the only time he did not walk on the field was in the second half of the mexico game.

so if you could run in that game why you cant run in every other game.

His ass should have been on the bench since the ist half of the ist game

But we will leave him on the field because

"His Talent" will mask our deficencies


What we need the most is Honesty.


Dont worry Kenyane you is a top scorer, you could butt real good, you is we captian, here is another multi million dollar contract.
Dont worry we not subbing you.

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

Of course the guys not fit.....this is not new information.

Pro League fit and International fit are 2 different things completely. 

Nearly half the side playing at a below professional league level...doh mind what they call it

Our players play with heart and soul all tournament...especially yesterday despite coming to a gun battle with caps guns...and were in position to still win.

But all people could do is waste them down while indulging in idle, idiotic speculation.

f**ked up I tell you.

My seat was in the sun and I was cooking jus sitting.  Imagine how dem fellas was feeling out there in that heat! Despite what the results from the group suggested, Panama was a very formidable opponent.  They made our players work hard and always had 2 men near KJ while he up top isolated.  Them fellas fight hard and is ah shame that people on here refuse to recognize it but instead have loads of criticisms.

[KND2]

how is a man playing in MLS and British Championship not fit.

It have no better leagues that these.

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

how is a man playing in MLS and British Championship not fit.

It have no better leagues that these.

How many days of the year is it 97 degrees in England?  How often do they play 4 games in a 12 day span in England and MLS? 

[injunchile]

Good Incisive post from KND2 and Palos. I hope Sancho can start thinking football and not politics and sit down with Hart and the coaching staff and plot the way forward for the W?C qualifiers. We need to look at foreign base players , yes including Bobby Zamora and play some serious teams as preparation
 Surely Yorke / Tallest at Everton and Birchy can help in the recruiting process. Finally we need a playmaker in the center of the park

[KND2]

keep giving them excuses

How many days it is over 97 degrees in chicago and what season is the MLS games played in.

How many games did panama play in 12 days.

imagine this is where we reach when a Trinidad team losing cause Sun to hot.
back in 1989 we set up game at 2:30 just so we have hot Sun advantage

we come full circle.

Pro league have no fitness standards
British league weather too cool

Well I guess it pays to be from Panama, them men running the in rain forest whole day so they can handle the heat.

what we men doing?

[daryn]

I think a significant part of the fitness issue is the fact that we don't have a lot of possession. Also defensive mistakes add up.

Our players spend a lot of energy chasing the ball or sprinting to get back in the right position.

[Controversial]

Of course the guys not fit.....this is not new information.

Pro League fit and International fit are 2 different things completely. 

Nearly half the side playing at a below professional league level...doh mind what they call it

Our players play with heart and soul all tournament...especially yesterday despite coming to a gun battle with caps guns...and were in position to still win.

But all people could do is waste them down while indulging in idle, idiotic speculation.

f**ked up I tell you.

So Breds, none of our players fit then? Even the mls players? KJ played well.. Bakr and Cyrus had an extra day rest... So what is their excuse?

Most of them men born in Trinidad... All of a sudden heat is the factor.. When man drink rum the night before, that could dry you out the next day... I agree..

Not saying that they fete but they played like they did... Saw them play much better, yesterday they should have put it away.. SH did the best he can, they failed him yesterday and the fans who always supporting them whether they play like garbage or not..

The whole joke is I didn't even care about the Jordan match... But this one was more important than that Mexico game.. We play superior attacking football against Mexico and rubbish in our quarter final..

Yet I have to sit here and listen to some supporters telling me to accept that.. Can't do that.. As far as I am concerned KJ and Hart get top honours.. Everyone else failed.. Miserably..

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

Weird how yuh cah answer meh doh KND.  MLS plays once ah muddflippin week!!  So Jones and Cato played the equivalent of a months worth of games in 12 days.  Whether they fit or not it would still be a lot to contend with.  KJ doh play in that type of whether even remotely often. 

Do our players need to be more fit? Yes!
Does playing in MLS and EPL/ Championship in England once a week mean playing so many games so rapidly should be a breeze? No

Is not about excuses, yuh ask a question and I countered it to show that by itself where they play doesn't determine that they will be able to manage all these games in a short space of time and not be bun.

In 1989 how many games we played in the 11 days prior to that qualifier?

[Controversial]

how is a man playing in MLS and British Championship not fit.

It have no better leagues that these.

How many days of the year is it 97 degrees in England?  How often do they play 4 games in a 12 day span in England and MLS? 

What is the temperature in Trinidad right now or worse yet, 430 during the day?

Remember we are closer to the equator than New Jersey.. What was the other players excuse, when they sat out mexico? What excuse should I prepare myself for ?

[Controversial]

Weird how yuh cah answer meh doh KND.  MLS plays once ah muddflippin week!!  So Jones and Cato played the equivalent of a months worth of games in 12 days.  Whether they fit or not it would still be a lot to contend with.  KJ doh play in that type of whether even remotely often. 

Do our players need to be more fit? Yes!
Does playing in MLS and EPL/ Championship in England once a week mean playing so many games so rapidly should be a breeze? No

Is not about excuses, yuh ask a question and I countered it to show that by itself where they play doesn't determine that they will be able to manage all these games in a short space of time and not be bun.

In 1989 how many games we played in the 11 days prior to that qualifier?

So in other wards the U.S. Panama, Costa Rica and Mexico can play in more heat than us and they fitter to booth?

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

how is a man playing in MLS and British Championship not fit.

It have no better leagues that these.

How many days of the year is it 97 degrees in England?  How often do they play 4 games in a 12 day span in England and MLS? 

What is the temperature in Trinidad right now or worse yet, 430 during the day?

Remember we are closer to the equator than New Jersey.. What was the other players excuse, when they sat our mexico? What excuse should I prepare myself for ?

KND singled out MLS and England, my response was to that.  But even if we took it a step further; how often do the pro league players play? More than once a week?  Which pro league matches does start 4:30 pm?  I doh know what anyone's "excuse" is and I doh care.  Before this tournament most recognized that Panama are ahead of us and that their football development in the last decade has taken them above us.  Now all of a sudden it seems everyone expected us to just walk over Panama.  I will repeat this "Panama eh no shit team"  Don't let their group results fool you. 

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

Weird how yuh cah answer meh doh KND.  MLS plays once ah muddflippin week!!  So Jones and Cato played the equivalent of a months worth of games in 12 days.  Whether they fit or not it would still be a lot to contend with.  KJ doh play in that type of whether even remotely often. 

Do our players need to be more fit? Yes!
Does playing in MLS and EPL/ Championship in England once a week mean playing so many games so rapidly should be a breeze? No

Is not about excuses, yuh ask a question and I countered it to show that by itself where they play doesn't determine that they will be able to manage all these games in a short space of time and not be bun.

In 1989 how many games we played in the 11 days prior to that qualifier?

So in other wards the U.S. Panama, Costa Rica and Mexico can play in more heat than us and they fitter to booth?

Mexicans play in altitude that is difficult to breathe in normally with ease.  So yes they are fitter and easily so!  The US team has loads of preparation and can meet the coaches demands better than us.  They practice together often enough, take advantage of all FIFA dates on the calendar. And most play MLS so when their league is off Klinsmann has more access to them to develop them.  Better facilities, better equipment, better training regimen and frequency.  So yes they are fitter than us by a mile.  Watching Costa Rica live yesterday I will say yes they are fitter than us.  Panama I doh know enough about and they had the benefit of 2 extra days rest.  So yesterday they had a bit more to offer as far as fitness goes.

[Controversial]

how is a man playing in MLS and British Championship not fit.

It have no better leagues that these.

How many days of the year is it 97 degrees in England?  How often do they play 4 games in a 12 day span in England and MLS? 

What is the temperature in Trinidad right now or worse yet, 430 during the day?

Remember we are closer to the equator than New Jersey.. What was the other players excuse, when they sat our mexico? What excuse should I prepare myself for ?

KND singled out MLS and England, my response was to that.  But even if we took it a step further; how often do the pro league players play? More than once a week?  Which pro league matches does start 4:30 pm?  I doh know what anyone's "excuse" is and I doh care.  Before this tournament most recognized that Panama are ahead of us and that their football development in the last decade has taken them above us.  Now all of a sudden it seems everyone expected us to just walk over Panama.  I will repeat this "Panama eh no shit team"  Don't let their group results fool you. 

we have had national team matches at this time before my fellow supporter.. Sometimes even midday, check the records if you think I'm lying.. Panama has been playing better football than us because of our Ttfa problems and because they are playing more games than us, to be honest they are not playing inspiring football and I'm not impressed... For the record despite my thoughts I never said they were a walk over... But Trinidad make them look better than what they are, because they played garbage...

Mexico played run and gun football for 120 mins, how do you explain that? For me, heat was no factor... You have a mission and a goal... Whether it's hot or not, you have to have the mindset to go out there and win..

[Controversial]

Weird how yuh cah answer meh doh KND.  MLS plays once ah muddflippin week!!  So Jones and Cato played the equivalent of a months worth of games in 12 days.  Whether they fit or not it would still be a lot to contend with.  KJ doh play in that type of whether even remotely often. 

Do our players need to be more fit? Yes!
Does playing in MLS and EPL/ Championship in England once a week mean playing so many games so rapidly should be a breeze? No

Is not about excuses, yuh ask a question and I countered it to show that by itself where they play doesn't determine that they will be able to manage all these games in a short space of time and not be bun.

In 1989 how many games we played in the 11 days prior to that qualifier?

So in other wards the U.S. Panama, Costa Rica and Mexico can play in more heat than us and they fitter to booth?

Mexicans play in altitude that is difficult to breathe in normally with ease.  So yes they are fitter and easily so!  The US team has loads of preparation and can meet the coaches demands better than us.  They practice together often enough, take advantage of all FIFA dates on the calendar. And most play MLS so when their league is off Klinsmann has more access to them to develop them.  Better facilities, better equipment, better training regimen and frequency.  So yes they are fitter than us by a mile.  Watching Costa Rica live yesterday I will say yes they are fitter than us.  Panama I doh know enough about and they had the benefit of 2 extra days rest.  So yesterday they had a bit more to offer as far as fitness goes.

Not saying what you're saying is rubbish, because they are many valid points but it seems like Trinidad always has a plaster for everything.

So what do you attribute to Cyrus and his miss? I will place the blame on the ttfa as well for not preparing the team... They will shoulder some of this blame but players not being fit is also on the players..

No one is stopping them from training on their own to be a better player physically ..... This is international football and they will have to get accustom to the pace of the game at this level..

And they cannot rely on Hart to get them into game shape.. That to me is laziness and the players need to take the onus on themselves to get in shape and be able to run 120 like what is done in the German program and the Dutch program.. Did you see Levi Garcia and what the coach in holland said? They said he was fit and ready when he arrived.. Can that be said for these players?

So the Ttfa gets part of the blame of course and right so but so do the players, because they should be taking care of themselves and training on their own to take their game and careers to a higher level... Who's fault is that? The weather? 

[kaliman2006]

Of course the guys not fit.....this is not new information.

Pro League fit and International fit are 2 different things completely. 

Nearly half the side playing at a below professional league level...doh mind what they call it

Our players play with heart and soul all tournament...especially yesterday despite coming to a gun battle with caps guns...and were in position to still win.

But all people could do is waste them down while indulging in idle, idiotic speculation.

f**ked up I tell you.

So Breds, none of our players fit then? Even the mls players? KJ played well.. Bakr and Cyrus had an extra day rest... So what is their excuse?

Most of them men born in Trinidad... All of a sudden heat is the factor.. When man drink rum the night before, that could dry you out the next day... I agree..


Not saying that they fete but they played like they did... Saw them play much better, yesterday they should have put it away.. SH did the best he can, they failed him yesterday and the fans who always supporting them whether they play like garbage or not..

The whole joke is I didn't even care about the Jordan match... But this one was more important than that Mexico game.. We play superior attacking football against Mexico and rubbish in our quarter final..

Yet I have to sit here and listen to some supporters telling me to accept that.. Can't do that.. As far as I am concerned KJ and Hart get top honours.. Everyone else failed.. Miserably..

To be fair, summer time in the NY/NJ area is a different kettle of fish to the heat in Trinidad and Tobago; take it from one who has lived in upstate NY where the weather was hot enough up there, never mind NYC and East Rutherford NJ (Where Met Life Stadium is located).

The continental seat can be quite suffocating and oppressive. One feels like a ham being baked in an oven in those parts.

So it is quite valid for our players to have felt the effects of the heat yesterday, especially after playing so many matches in a short space of time.

Buh say wha; go Reggae Boyz!

I know Jamaica is our rival and we goh take real ole' talk if Yard makes the final, but ah really CYAH stand the USA with its Johnny-come-lately arrogance with regards to the beautiful game

[Controversial]

Of course the guys not fit.....this is not new information.

Pro League fit and International fit are 2 different things completely. 

Nearly half the side playing at a below professional league level...doh mind what they call it

Our players play with heart and soul all tournament...especially yesterday despite coming to a gun battle with caps guns...and were in position to still win.

But all people could do is waste them down while indulging in idle, idiotic speculation.

f**ked up I tell you.

So Breds, none of our players fit then? Even the mls players? KJ played well.. Bakr and Cyrus had an extra day rest... So what is their excuse?

Most of them men born in Trinidad... All of a sudden heat is the factor.. When man drink rum the night before, that could dry you out the next day... I agree..


Not saying that they fete but they played like they did... Saw them play much better, yesterday they should have put it away.. SH did the best he can, they failed him yesterday and the fans who always supporting them whether they play like garbage or not..

The whole joke is I didn't even care about the Jordan match... But this one was more important than that Mexico game.. We play superior attacking football against Mexico and rubbish in our quarter final..

Yet I have to sit here and listen to some supporters telling me to accept that.. Can't do that.. As far as I am concerned KJ and Hart get top honours.. Everyone else failed.. Miserably..

To be fair, summer time in the NY/NJ area is a different kettle of fish to the heat in Trinidad and Tobago; take it from one who has lived in upstate NY where the weather was hot enough up there, never mind NYC and East Rutherford NJ (Where Met Life Stadium is located).

The continental seat can be quite suffocating and oppressive. One feels like a ham being baked in an oven in those parts.

So it is quite valid for our players to have felt the effects of the heat yesterday, especially after playing so many matches in a short space of time.

Buh say wha; go Reggae Boyz!

I know Jamaica is our rival and we goh take real ole' talk if Yard makes the final, but ah really CYAH stand the USA with its Johnny-come-lately arrogance with regards to the beautiful game

I live in Toronto, it's no different to New York, maybe even hotter than New York because we are more inland.. So that is no excuse for the players...

Yard plays with more pride than talent, which gets them far, our players need a lesson in patriotism and pride for their nation..

[Sando prince]

keep giving them excuses

How many days it is over 97 degrees in chicago and what season is the MLS games played in.

How many games did panama play in 12 days.

imagine this is where we reach when a Trinidad team losing cause Sun to hot.
back in 1989 we set up game at 2:30 just so we have hot Sun advantage

we come full circle.

Pro league have no fitness standards
British league weather too cool

Well I guess it pays to be from Panama, them men running the in rain forest whole day so they can handle the heat.

what we men doing?

men in here only making excuses after excuses. This is the SAME type of reaction I seeing for YEARS in TnT football after we exit tournaments due to poor performances (Gold Cups and World Cup qualification). We play poorly in very important games. It still mind boggling men in here ready to accept what they saw yesterday against Panama as good football or the best we could have done. Why do we think like this? Maybe its psychological issues, because we a small nation with not a lot of people so our standards are lower

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

Contro u hadda be ah madman hoss  T. and NYC is no where near similar where heat and humidity is concerned  Doh try dat atall.

As for Cyrus he was about 10 or so minutes removed from having cramps that left him noticeably limping.  Why you think KJ attempted to change the order which the ref declined?

I agree that fitness is in part their responsibility.  However the hunger and the desire to be more fit is not likely to be motivated by their inability to succeed in the Gold Cup.  That desire can only be fed by personal ambition. Whether it has to do with fame, riches, or playing for the best clubs in the best leagues.  There is no way any of us can reasonably expect that these players will individually aim to improve themselves for the sake of international football especially with the support or lack thereof afforded to the program.

Of Course LG fit and ready, he getting a chance at a European club.  If he want to stay there he have to be ready.  But again the conditions under which he gets to display that readiness isn't on the pitch during his fourth game in 12 days in 97 degree temperature  (not even calculating what it really feels like with humidity).

To me I feel like is disingenuous to compare our players to the German national team whose players mostly play in the Bundesliga where the standard is leaps and bounds beyond where or players play with the exception of KJ

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

We played poorly against a team which hasn't been defeated yet in this Gold Cup by taking them the complete distance and only failing to capitalize with a lead in PKs.  So our entire showing at the GC is down the drain with our inability to beat Panama?  OK den!

[Sando prince]

We played poorly against a team which hasn't been defeated yet in this Gold Cup by taking them the complete distance and only failing to capitalize with a lead in PKs.  So our entire showing at the GC is down the drain with our inability to beat Panama?  OK den!

We played poorly and was lucky not to lose the game in regulation. Lack possession, long ball to Kenwyne on almost every play going forward was a failed tactic. No midfield presence to control the game. Panama created more scoring opportunities. We lacked communication at the back. Our defenders were scrambling for some parts of the game. Even Stevie Wonder can see we played poorly and didn't deserve to even reach penalties.

[KND2]

MLS players play one game a week?

What about US open cup games
What about concacaf champions league
What out friendly games versus those european teams

Most of the time the players on average will play 2 games a week in MLS especailly during the summer.

Not to mention training is high intensity so it come like a game.

if you in that environment you have to be able to play at a hight level every 3-4 games without skipping a beat.


In the UK men conditioned to play at least 2 games a week when you take into account all the other tournaments involved.

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

We played poorly against a team which hasn't been defeated yet in this Gold Cup by taking them the complete distance and only failing to capitalize with a lead in PKs.  So our entire showing at the GC is down the drain with our inability to beat Panama?  OK den!

We played poorly and was lucky not to lose the game in regulation. Lack possession, long ball to Kenwyne on almost every play going forward was a failed tactic. No midfield presence to control the game. Panama created more scoring opportunities. We lacked communication at the back. Our defenders were scrambling for some parts of the game. Even Stevie Wonder can see we played poorly and didn't deserve to even reach penalties.

Football is a game of opportunity so deserve or not we managed to actually have a chance to win.  Apart from 2 great chances to kill the game how much more did Panama have?  They pressed high and forced us into errors and we indeed did not play our best game.  Yet we had a very good tournament overall that has illuminated many positives that we can work with.  So for me I will not condemn the players and staff over yesterday.  I will look at the tournament showing in general and assess them on that.  Oddly enough anyone I talk to that's not from Trini but has been watching has offered nothing but praise for the overall showing.  KJ is on everybody's lips.  But allyuh hear is like allyuh have a special latent hatred for these fellas that does block allyuh from seeing anything else but all the negatives.  Yet these are the players that we as fans demand the best from.  If you get their best 2 games and something off the third, the 2 best is out the window as usual.  What have you done for me lately because I do care about how high yuh had meh flying 3 days ago. 


KND Most MLS tems not offering up their best players in no CCL so try yuh best.  For the most part MLS players are playing once a week with very few exceptions.  They certainly not playing no four games in 12 days ever!  In fact if they (MLS teams) could control it, the likes of Jones, Cato, Venega, Dempsey, etc. wouldn't be able to participate in no Gold Cup but they have no choice.

In the UK unless you on a team that playing CL or Europa there in no possible chance you play 4 games in 12 days.  KJ only been on one team that played Europa his whole Career and even then he didn't play all league and Europa games.  Allyuh could claim excuses as much as allyuh like.  Yet your classification of what's being said doesn't negate facts