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Author Topic: Thread for the T&T vs Haiti Copa Game (08-Jan-2016)  (Read 37136 times)

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Offline Quags

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Ok now my pov , pleyers made there move , might not have been the most tactful way , but DJW now knows his employees need to be paid before Christmas hope he gets off his high horse and makes it happen , meet with the board and pay the people.
Your employees should not have to remind you that they need to get paid  , and when they do, you cant get offended lol.

Offline maxg

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Hey... I better call DJW to let him know that FIFA let the previous admin know that they have to pay Pellerud too or we country teams can get reprimanded, cause like ppl from previous admin wasn't telling him or asking him nothing.or maybe, he should just continue reading Sw.net..and use excuse, he didn't see THIS or THAT post, as it suits his admin.

Thought the 1st thing would be to look at books, see what we owe, to who, and then see what we could afford to do, with what we have and what we can raise/work for...but I guess with so many tournaments and invitations happening, he got confused and didn't realize the credit card was maxed out, and only change in the right pocket, and a hole in the left.

Offline Bakes

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With all respect, tell that to your or anyone's employees and see what happens.


I deal with this on the regular with my clients.  Anybody who involved in any kind of business will encounter this at some point or the other, but yuh don't run to the press or the courts just because a payment is 60 days late, especially when there might be legitimate reasons for the payment being late.  Should the FA start suspending or blacklisting players if their clubs refuse to release them for games? I have no dog in the fight, at the end of the day I want what's best for TnT football, THIS is not the best way to start off a relationship, let alone resolve issues. 

Offline Bakes

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Hey... I better call DJW to let him know that FIFA let the previous admin know that they have to pay Pellerud too or we country teams can get reprimanded, cause like ppl from previous admin wasn't telling him or asking him nothing.or maybe, he should just continue reading Sw.net..and use excuse, he didn't see THIS or THAT post, as it suits his admin.

Thought the 1st thing would be to look at books, see what we owe, to who, and then see what we could afford to do, with what we have and what we can raise/work for...but I guess with so many tournaments and invitations happening, he got confused and didn't realize the credit card was maxed out, and only change in the right pocket, and a hole in the left.

Max you self... like allyuh ent understanding what allyuh reading or what?  He never said he didn't know about it.  Is not like he's saying he didn't know the players were owed money, he said he didn't know anything about strike until the press start contacting him.  The point about the phone call is to underscore the lack of professional courtesy on the parts of the players.  If something so fundamental doesn't make sense to allyuh fellas here, and allyuh is de educated ones, no wonder we in a mess when it comes to the average man on the street in TnT.

Offline maxg

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I really didn't read the whole thing..still haven't.. but, oh shim..he knew about the money, and they have to call him to do what ? remind him ? prpare to hold a story ? so he could tell them is ok..play it coming ? so he professionally couldn't call them before hand ? who ball the lack of professional courtesy lay in ?  so let's see if Fifa just ban we ass for not paying that next man we hired, if he demonstrate they didn't call him before, if it will mean something to somebody...there is different levels of education.. I old enuff to see fellas graduate with Doctorate and straight A's still have no common sense..and yet the man on the street could still teach them things they don't know about.  *wink*

Offline palos

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yuh don't run to the press or the courts just because a payment is 60 days late, especially when there might be legitimate reasons for the payment being late. 

True.  If the late payment happen once....twice...maybe even 3 times.

What about ALL THE TIME?  And the way you end up getting paid in the past is to take/threaten strike action

What then? 
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Bakes

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True.  If the late payment happen once....twice...maybe even 3 times.

What about ALL THE TIME?  And the way you end up getting paid in the past is to take/threaten strike action

What then? 

From the same customer/client?  Perhaps.  But if it's under new management then there's no need to start off doing business that way, at least give them a chance.

Offline palos

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True.  If the late payment happen once....twice...maybe even 3 times.

What about ALL THE TIME?  And the way you end up getting paid in the past is to take/threaten strike action

What then? 

From the same customer/client?  Perhaps.  But if it's under new management then there's no need to start off doing business that way, at least give them a chance.

I think that is the problem.  I suspect the players don't see a different client....new management or not.   They see the same TTFA\TTFF. 

And perhaps the biggest indicator is that the players KNOW the new management.
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline soccerman

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I knew that DJW wanted to meet with Tim Kee, I wondered if that ever happened? I don't know much about DJW and I'm willing to give he and his board a fair chance to sort things out.

Offline Controversial

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True.  If the late payment happen once....twice...maybe even 3 times.

What about ALL THE TIME?  And the way you end up getting paid in the past is to take/threaten strike action

What then? 

From the same customer/client?  Perhaps.  But if it's under new management then there's no need to start off doing business that way, at least give them a chance.

I think that is the problem.  I suspect the players don't see a different client....new management or not.   They see the same TTFA\TTFF. 

And perhaps the biggest indicator is that the players KNOW the new management.

Hear the chain up that going on here family...

Why the players have to call to get their money? Why weren't they paid or called instead?

Nobody ask that question yet, Djw know what the scene was and just coasting, instead of being proactive and taking care of it..

So guess what KJ and the players do, take front before front take them...

Offline gawd on pitch

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I think both sides could have handled this matter a bit better.

The players or their representatives should have contacted DJW before the KJ media press release. But at the same time to, the federation could have kept the lines of communication more open by giving the players an update on the status of their payment.

DJW and the mos have a good opportunity to prove their worth to their constituents. If these guys are men of action, they will come up with a resolution sooner than later.

Offline palos

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You're a player on the Mens National team

You have "history" with the TTFA...especially regarding payment on time.

It's not a good history by any means

You were promised that you would be paid for the Guatemala WCQ matches.  Nobody talkin about when that payment was supposed to have been made.

Let's say promised payment time come and gone....YET AGAIN

You seeing Womens team gone Hawaii and touring the continental United States

You seeing the Womens B team gone Brazil

Not a peep about your payment.

How would you feel?

Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Sando prince

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You're a player on the Mens National team

You have "history" with the TTFA...especially regarding payment on time.

It's not a good history by any means

You were promised that you would be paid for the Guatemala WCQ matches.  Nobody talkin about when that payment was supposed to have been made.

Let's say promised payment time come and gone....YET AGAIN

You seeing Womens team gone Hawaii and touring the continental United States

You seeing the Womens B team gone Brazil

Not a peep about your payment.

How would you feel?



Is that what happened? I could say the same thing like you but I hate to speculate.

Offline palos

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You're a player on the Mens National team

You have "history" with the TTFA...especially regarding payment on time.

It's not a good history by any means

You were promised that you would be paid for the Guatemala WCQ matches.  Nobody talkin about when that payment was supposed to have been made.

Let's say promised payment time come and gone....YET AGAIN

You seeing Womens team gone Hawaii and touring the continental United States

You seeing the Womens B team gone Brazil

Not a peep about your payment.

How would you feel?



Is that what happened? I could say the same thing like you but I hate to speculate.


The alternative would be that the players would go into these World Cup Qualifying matches based purely on National pride and no expectation of payment.

What you think?
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Bakes

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You were promised that you would be paid for the Guatemala WCQ matches.  Nobody talkin about when that payment was supposed to have been made.



This was implicitly addressed... that game was November 15, the US game was November 17.  The Nicaragua friendly was October 14th.  These are the matches they say they haven't been paid for.  Going all the way back to October 14th, that would put the oldest due payment at around 60 days late.  This is why I used that number.  Whatever "promise" was made, would have been made by Tim Kee, as he had fired Phillips and was running the show on his own at that point.

At that point the TTFA was being run by a an inexperienced person standing in for Phillips... that lasted two weeks.  Then the elections came, throwing everything off course.  DJW came in and immediately they were faced with the FIFA sanction issue over Pellerud's payment, preparing for the women's friendlies, meeting with Ministry of Sports etc.  And most importantly, STILL collecting payments from the US qualifier.  So if they still collecting payment, how were they supposed to pay them for that game?  At any rate, I won't bother going back and forth, is either folks see and accept that the actions were rash (as even the head coach alluded to) or they don't.

Offline Sando prince

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You're a player on the Mens National team

You have "history" with the TTFA...especially regarding payment on time.

It's not a good history by any means

You were promised that you would be paid for the Guatemala WCQ matches.  Nobody talkin about when that payment was supposed to have been made.

Let's say promised payment time come and gone....YET AGAIN

You seeing Womens team gone Hawaii and touring the continental United States

You seeing the Womens B team gone Brazil

Not a peep about your payment.

How would you feel?



Is that what happened? I could say the same thing like you but I hate to speculate.


The alternative would be that the players would go into these World Cup Qualifying matches based purely on National pride and no expectation of payment.

What you think?

Sure you can think of other alternatives. You put your head out there to be chopped off by saying with such conviction that some type of deadline may have passed. We don't know when payment was to be made.
.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 06:35:31 PM by Sando prince »

Offline andre samuel

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Until there is a day that you can go to bank or the grocery with a box of national pride, then I fully support the players.

Kenwyne is standing up for his team, he is being a leader both on and off the pitch.  It is not about the money for him.

I know that there could have been an option for the players to feel out DJW first, but i am sure that if they did, they would have simply received the same promise that they got from the previous TTFA admin.

The timing was perfect.  Copa America qualification is outside of a FIFA date, so no players can be forced to play.  It is also far away from the actual qualifiers in March, which gives enough time for wounds to heal after this "fall out"

Well done Jones

ah love it!!
Andre Samuel, who controls all the rights to the phrase "ah love it!!"

Offline Controversial

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Until there is a day that you can go to bank or the grocery with a box of national pride, then I fully support the players.

Kenwyne is standing up for his team, he is being a leader both on and off the pitch.  It is not about the money for him.

I know that there could have been an option for the players to feel out DJW first, but i am sure that if they did, they would have simply received the same promise that they got from the previous TTFA admin.

The timing was perfect.  Copa America qualification is outside of a FIFA date, so no players can be forced to play.  It is also far away from the actual qualifiers in March, which gives enough time for wounds to heal after this "fall out"

Well done Jones

ah love it!!

Why KJ and the team have to call?

Last time I check, djw not kicking the football and without the players there is no national team...

Djw damn well know what needed to be taken care of, along with the govt

Djw and the govt trying to sell allyuh cat in bag.. And allyuh buying it wholesale

Offline Controversial

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Re: TTFA and the current Government sabotaging our football...
« Reply #138 on: December 12, 2015, 01:47:50 AM »
Contro, John Williams has to straighten out what Tim Kee left for him. At the mean time the Minister has to deal with all other sports. Not just football. Like you, I was expecting John-Williams to come marching in with his financiers to fix TTFA. What the TTFA need first and foremost is money. money, money, money. I will give John some slack for now. but when the WC, Women;s Olimpic and the Copa America qualifiers come around ..... we eh want any excuse!

Family, Djw selling allyuh cat in bag and allyuh buying it..

Why the players have to call him? He pretending like he didn't know the situation beforehand

Offline Flex

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TTFA meeting not fruitful for protesting players.
T&T Guardian Reports.


The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) has failed to workout a soluation that would avoid having its best players selected for the 2016 COPA America qualifier against Haiti scheduled for January 8, 2016 in Panama City, Panama.

In an emergency meeting of the newly elected executive of the sport at the TTFA Offices, Hasely Crawford Stadium, Mucurapo, last evening, to address a threat from members of the senior men’s national team that they will withhold their services until outstanding match fees from the Gold Cup Tournament and two World Cup qualifies against Guatemala and USA are settled. At the conclusion of the meeting no solution was found.

In a news release last evening the TTFA states: “On the evening of December 10, 2015, it was brought to our attention that the players on the Trinidad & Tobago Senior Men’s national team had issued a press release.

The Press Release stated that the players decided that if selected for the 2016 COPA America qualifier scheduled for January 8, 2016 in Panama City, they will not take the field.

This was underlined by one of the senior players, during his participation in a radio programme, confirming the origin and content of the said press release. The reason cited for the players adopting this position is the fact that they are owed monies that they were promised months ago for representing our country.”

The release continued: “We appreciate the frustration of the players and we are endeavouring to address the position as soon as is practicable. Our ability to address the plight of all the people we owe is a function of the TTFA being in the financial position so to do.

Since we were elected to office on November 29, 2015, some ten (10) working days ago, we have been working assiduously to establish the financial position of the TTFA. In doing so our progress has been severely hampered by the lack of documentation, poor recordkeeping and the inability to collect monies due for gate receipts.”

The release added: “This also applies to this situation, apparently it has been custom and practice to operate in accordance with oral agreements, in many cases the parties often lacked the authority to commit the organisation.  “This places the new administration in the position of having to locate the parties to the said oral agreements, not unsurprisingly, their recall of the circumstances and what was agreed to is both inconsistent and contradictory.

Although this could take some time to unravel, please note that the players are not out of pocket. As is the norm, they continue to receive their club salary and all the costs they incurred when representing the national team, such as flight, accommodation, meals and sundry expenses, have been met by the TTFA.

Having said all the above, the absence of a policy governing the entitlement to match fees is also a serious oversight. For instance, based on our findings to date it appears that match fees are not a function of experience, number of appearances at national level, time on the field, or category of staff. This will be corrected as we go forward, and more specifically the policy will include an undertaking with respect to the timely payment of sums due.

In future, the operational protocol of the new administration will mirror that of the best run companies.

Full TTFA Report

Matter involving senior men's team and COPA America qualifier.
TTFA Media.


On the evening of December 10, 2015, it was brought to our attention that the players on the Trinidad & Tobago Senior Men’s national team had issued a press release.

The Press Release stated that the players decided that if selected for the 2016 COPA America qualifier scheduled for January 8, 2016 in Panama City, they will not take the field. This was underlined by one of the senior players, during his participation in a radio programme, confirming the origin and content of the said press release. The reason cited for the players adopting this position is the fact that they are owed monies that they were promised months ago for representing our country.

We appreciate the frustration of the players and we are endeavouring to address the position as soon as is practicable. Our ability to address the plight of all the people we owe is a function of the TTFA being in the financial position so to do.

Since we were elected to office on November 29, 2015, some ten (10) working days ago, we have been working assiduously to establish the financial position of the TTFA. In doing so our progress has been severely hampered by the lack of documentation, poor record keeping and the inability to collect monies due for gate receipts.

This also applies to this situation, apparently it has been custom and practice to operate in accordance with oral agreements, in many cases the parties often lacked the authority to commit the organisation. This places the new administration in the position of having to locate the parties to the said oral agreements, not unsurprisingly, their recall of the circumstances and what was agreed to is both inconsistent and contradictory.

Although this could take some time to unravel, please note that the players are not out of pocket. As is the norm, they continue to receive their club salary and all the costs they incurred when representing the national team, such as flight, accommodation, meals and sundry expenses, have been met by the TTFA.

Having said all the above, the absence of a policy governing the entitlement to match fees is also a serious oversight. For instance, based on our findings to date it appears that match fees are not a function of experience, number of appearances at national level, time on the field, or category of staff. This will be corrected as we go forward, and more specifically the policy will include an undertaking with respect to the timely payment of sums due.

In future, the operational protocol of the new administration will mirror that of the best run companies. The affairs of the TTFA will be conducted internally, mindful that to do otherwise, risks negatively impacting the reputation and credibility of the organisation. This in turn negatively impacts the TTFA’s ability to attract income, and consequently, the TTFA’s ability to fund and develop football in Trinidad & Tobago.

We look forward to building a constructive and collaborative relationship with all our national players and would request that, from time to time, should they have a grievance, they take all steps to ensure that it is brought to the attention of those in the TTFA that have the authority to addresses the issue.

We applaud the initiative taken by the players to appoint representatives and look forward to working with those representatives, once they have been duly authorised, in writing, to negotiate on behalf of the players.

We are committed to arriving at an amicable solution as soon as possible.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 07:12:07 AM by Flex »
The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline Jumbie

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While disappointing - STAND your ground Cap.. and team. Lets just hope you guys can remain unified.

Offline Quags

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Wow interesting response , he's gonna change the pay structure ,have contracts and pay on time, thats cool hopefully he has insurance for the player's also like the best run companies.
So its a verbal contract he's working with , nevertheless he cant say the player's not out of pocket he doesn't know that , and even if he changes the structure ,he should atleast try fix and fulfill the mistakes of the previous administration first before moving on , lest he ruins the working relationships he has with our warriors, if handled without compassion this could spiral out of control .
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 10:17:13 AM by Quags »

Offline dreamer

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Until there is a day that you can go to bank or the grocery with a box of national pride, then I fully support the players.

Kenwyne is standing up for his team, he is being a leader both on and off the pitch.  It is not about the money for him.

I know that there could have been an option for the players to feel out DJW first, but i am sure that if they did, they would have simply received the same promise that they got from the previous TTFA admin.

The timing was perfect.  Copa America qualification is outside of a FIFA date, so no players can be forced to play.  It is also far away from the actual qualifiers in March, which gives enough time for wounds to heal after this "fall out"

Well done Jones

ah love it!!

Sense! Proud of our posters who are getting it.
Supportin' de Warriors right tru.

Offline Peong

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Reasonable response by djw.
That's interesting about how the ttfa were still operating with verbal contracts in the post-Jack era.
The fact that Tim-Kee didn't do away with that speaks volumes.

Offline kaliman2006

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COPA Playoff
« Reply #144 on: December 12, 2015, 12:54:58 PM »
This is very interesting discussion guys. Everyone has made some strong and persuasive arguments. However, I am inclined to agree with Bakes. While the new President cannot be completely held blameless in this matter, the approach by Kenwyne Jones and his teammates is unnecessarily hostile and combative to a fledgling dispensation.

As one who has had to contend with dysfunctional managers, I have in fact made the same error as Jones et al made in my less experienced days by being prematurely aggressive in how I voiced my discontent with the status quo.

Even from a purely strategic point of view, Mr. Jones should have at least contacted the new President and documented it, as documentation is a critical facet of business correspondence. That way, it can never be said that he did not try to use every available avenue to resolve this dispute amicably.

Offline Bakes

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In the end I won't criticize the players for their choice, I just find it lamentable.  Hopefully there will be movement afoot soon for a Players Association to get off the ground.  Kelvin Jack would be an ideal person to lead that charge, him or Shaka, but he seemingly has more time on his hands these days.  A Players Association would hopefully in future take charge of an emotional situation and lead with a dispassionate response.  Change must start with a collective bargaining agreement which would outline the scope of players' contracts, obligations on both parties, and proposals for avoiding future breakdowns, and solutions in the eventuality that they occur.

Offline Quags

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The player's press release got an emergency meeting , out come of meeting they got taken care off at and for the game and they have other jobs .They is nothing on paper about payment and its hard to get gate receipts .
So whats the big diff , between  calling him and the media release , zero it eh look like they getting a dime next week .
I miss Timkee already , he had the good minister on speed dial.
in fact looks like some men gonna get a paycut lol
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 02:15:48 PM by Quags »

Offline kounty

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The new TTFA sound like the old, old TTFF (before this last one) there. Players better get lawyered up this world cup cycle.

Offline asylumseeker

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In the end I won't criticize the players for their choice, I just find it lamentable.  Hopefully there will be movement afoot soon for a Players Association to get off the ground.  Kelvin Jack would be an ideal person to lead that charge, him or Shaka, but he seemingly has more time on his hands these days.  A Players Association would hopefully in future take charge of an emotional situation and lead with a dispassionate response.  Change must start with a collective bargaining agreement which would outline the scope of players' contracts, obligations on both parties, and proposals for avoiding future breakdowns, and solutions in the eventuality that they occur.

Too late. But elegant pivot for a supertanker.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Deeks

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The new TTFA sound like the old, old TTFF (before this last one) there. Players better get lawyered up this world cup cycle.

Yes, they better get their own lawyers, seeing that they are unable to form an association to bargain for them. This association was supposed to be formed in 2006 after the WC. Is 2015 going on 16. No players association. I hope they are not expecting the TTFA to do that for them.