April 23, 2024, 02:01:33 AM

Author Topic: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?  (Read 3123 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Controversial

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6878
    • View Profile
    • Gino McKoy
Which political party in Trinidad best exemplifies your religious convictions?

Setting aside race, political platform, leader and so forth...

IMHO the PNM has always had a Christian and Muslim core, while the DLP/UNC has always had a Hindu core base of supporters. Over time that has shifted and encompassed a large portion of Indo-Trinidadians of all religions gravitating towards UNC. With a scattering of the Indo-Trinidadian base staying loyal to PNM, despite their religious background.

However, if it was based on religion and which party is more affiliated to that voters religious beliefs, I would have to say, I would vote PNM... Based on my own religious convictions, however, sadly we have had both leaders whether they be Christian or Hindu, venture down the path of Satan on many occasions in our history.

Negating any validity to someone actually voting based on religion. So I say again, walk with God Dr.Rowley, walk with God, why gain the whole world and lose your soul in the process....

Offline asylumseeker

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18076
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 07:53:15 AM »
We didn't achieve "independence" for people to vote along religious lines. Doh muddy the already dutty water.

Offline R45

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 07:55:44 AM »
Yeah not sure the point of this. People are already tribal with politics, and this is already largely a one-sided board. Not much will come out of this.

Offline asylumseeker

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18076
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 08:07:04 AM »
In my view, there is a fair repository of common sense on the board. Overstating a position to the effect that political views on the forum are blindly blinkered, does a disservice to what passes here as generally reasoned good sense. How many card-carrying party members post here?

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18649
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 08:16:26 AM »
It is kind of difficult to separate race and religion in TT, Suriname and Guy. Even though an East Indian can be of any religion. But most likely that person would be Hindu or Muslim. On the other hand most AfroTT would be Christian. This has changed though. We see a lot have become Rasta and Muslim. I don't know of any Afro Hindu person.  I know a couple people(Dougla) who are both Christian and Muslim. Why we vote along racial lines has more to do with accessibility to resources. Afros feel they get a better deal under PNM and Indos feel comfortable with DLP/UNC/PP. maybe in another 50 years when both don't feel this insecurity, maybe will see voting based on issues and not race or religion.

Offline Socapro

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *
  • Posts: 14531
  • Ras Shorty-I, Father of Soca, Chutney-Soca & Jamoo
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 08:44:21 AM »
It is kind of difficult to separate race and religion in TT, Suriname and Guy. Even though an East Indian can be of any religion. But most likely that person would be Hindu or Muslim. On the other hand most AfroTT would be Christian. This has changed though. We see a lot have become Rasta and Muslim. I don't know of any Afro Hindu person.  I know a couple people(Dougla) who are both Christian and Muslim. Why we vote along racial lines has more to do with accessibility to resources. Afros feel they get a better deal under PNM and Indos feel comfortable with DLP/UNC/PP. maybe in another 50 years when both don't feel this insecurity, maybe will see voting based on issues and not race or religion.

The way you guys are talking you would think there are few Afros in the UNC or few Indos in the PNM.
The truth is there is a high percentage of Afros and Indos in both parties that is reflective of our multi-cultural nation.

However one party seems to be more bent on promoting the religion and culture of most of its members above the religions and cultures of the rest of the population while the other party is based more on serving the entire population in a balanced fashion without an agenda to promote the religion and culture of most of its members over that of the rest of the population.

The total imbalance of coverage of religion and culture of one segment of the population on the government run TV station CNC3 during the last 5 years reveals the unbalanced agenda of the party that just left power but there are many other areas where this imbalance was also clearly demonstrated.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 04:27:23 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline R45

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 09:40:51 AM »
In my view, there is a fair repository of common sense on the board. Overstating a position to the effect that political views on the forum are blindly blinkered, does a disservice to what passes here as generally reasoned good sense. How many card-carrying party members post here?
I'll be honest and say I haven't been reading the General Discussion much in my years in of visiting this site until recently. That said, based on my non-scientific impression of the 2015 election (and thumb in the sky math), I'd say of the majority of regular posters in that main thread were staunch PNM supporters (or staunch anti-PP, not sure of the difference) - there wasn't much room for neutral discussions without it quickly descending into absolute statements sans reasoning. Case in point, every time one tried to take things out of the context of the 2015 election (i.e. trying to be somewhat impartial, objective, and less hyperbolic), I was often accused of drinking UNC koolaid, being a PP apologist, or something to that extent immediately. Usually when rebuttals resort to ad hominem attacks and just painting broad stripes, you usually know you're dealing with a partisan audience.

I'd say though, between that rubbish, there was some underlying common sense in there as well. I think folks just get too caught up with the politics of the day to take a step back and objectively compare one government to others in years/decades prior - I bet if I looked back at 2010 you'd find something similar. Probably in a year or two things can be put into better perspective.

That said, it isn't too surprising considering this is a football forum, and we know that the die-hard following of our two major sports does also have an ethnic split in this country. I suspect the situation is probably reversed on another popular forum like Trinituner that probably has a reverse ethnic split due to the nature of that board.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 10:01:52 AM »
I'll be honest and say I haven't been reading the General Discussion much in my years in of visiting this site until recently. That said, based on my non-scientific impression of the 2015 election (and thumb in the sky math), I'd say of the majority of regular posters in that main thread were staunch PNM supporters (or staunch anti-PP, not sure of the difference) - there wasn't much room for neutral discussions without it quickly descending into absolute statements sans reasoning. Case in point, every time one tried to take things out of the context of the 2015 election (i.e. trying to be somewhat impartial, objective, and less hyperbolic), I was often accused of drinking UNC koolaid, being a PP apologist, or something to that extent immediately. Usually when rebuttals resort to ad hominem attacks and just painting broad stripes, you usually know you're dealing with a partisan audience.

I'd say though, between that rubbish, there was some underlying common sense in there as well. I think folks just get too caught up with the politics of the day to take a step back and objectively compare one government to others in years/decades prior - I bet if I looked back at 2010 you'd find something similar. Probably in a year or two things can be put into better perspective.

That said, it isn't too surprising considering this is a football forum, and we know that the die-hard following of our two major sports does also have an ethnic split in this country. I suspect the situation is probably reversed on another popular forum like Trinituner that probably has a reverse ethnic split due to the nature of that board.

This entire post is rife with asinine statements.  I also find it richly ironic that you are in here playing the victim talking about people denouncing you as drinking PP Kool-Aid when in fact you have been guilty of doing the very thing you complain of.  I remember in particular an exchange I had with you about two weeks or so ago when you accused me of being part of a biased PNM clique (wildly paraphrasing).  From that point on I wrote off any discourse with you as a waste of time. 

And btw... there were a number of posters here who were adamantly against Manning (if not the PNM itself) and who voted for the Partnership, many who wanted to give COP specifically a chance, some who wanted to give Kamla a chance, and some who were in the "anybody but PNM" camp.  The most common refrain against the PNM were Manning's dictatorial style (particularly after sidelining Rowley) and the Calder Hart and Spiritual Advisor (the Pena woman) imbroglio.  There was nothing even remotely similar to the complaints about gross mismanagement and outright theft you're hearing these days about the PP.  This was true of the political climate in TnT generally, and of this forum specifically.  But of course you wouldn't know that, since by your own admission you seldom ventured here.  Ignorant of that context, your statement that this is "largely a one-sided board" seems particularly ridiculous, say nothing of being errant. 

Offline R45

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 10:27:56 AM »
This entire post is rife with asinine statements.  I also find it richly ironic that you are in here playing the victim talking about people denouncing you as drinking PP Kool-Aid when in fact you have been guilty of doing the very thing you complain of.  I remember in particular an exchange I had with you about two weeks or so ago when you accused me of being part of a biased PNM clique (wildly paraphrasing).  From that point on I wrote off any discourse with you as a waste of time.

Not sure what you're referring to. If I did, then that's unfortunate and not intended. I'll say I've made every effort to be as neutral as possible.

And I'm looking for no sympathy - frankly I just want a space where I can talk about non-partisan T&T politics and issues.

Quote
And btw... no, if you go back to 2010 you will not find anything resembling the accusations currently leveled at the PP gov't.  There were a number of posters here who were adamantly against Manning (if not the PNM itself) and who voted for the Partnership, many who wanted to give COP specifically a chance, some who wanted to give Kamla a chance, and some who were in the "anybody but PNM" camp.

That's exactly what I'm talking about though. The way Kamla was overwhelmingly voted in, despite signs that history was going to repeat itself (given that the party had many of the same suspects that got voted out when the UNC was in power prior, and that Jack was the big financier).

Quote
The most common complaints against the PNM were Manning's dictatorial style (particularly after sidelining Rowley) and the Calder Hart and Spiritual Advisor (the Pena woman) imbroglio.

What I've specifically tried to argue here is that you can draw parallels between this and Kamla's issue today. Manning's dictatorial style has similarities with Kamla's lack of control tendencies. I think they approached it from the opposite ends of the spectrum - that is, Manning exerted too much control and micro-managed his cabinet while Kamla seemed to let her cabinet run amok. The big difference is somehow Kamla maintained her individual favourability (based on favourability numbers compared to how Manning brought his entire party down), but both did it to the detriment of the government/country.

Calder Hart was a major corruption scandal, and Rowley himself did a lot to disclose the billions of dollars in gross mismanagement that happened as part of the variety of UDECOTT projects. Again, comparable perhaps to Lifesport, Highway corruption, and other PP corrupt events but warrants comparing the dollar amounts/something to figure out which was the "worst".

The Manning/Pena issues draw similarities to Kamla's drunk and infidelity accusations.

Quote
There was nothing even remotely similar to the complaints about gross mismanagement and outright theft you're hearing these days about the PP.
This is where I'm not sold, because everytime statements like this are made, there aren't attempts to quantify it. I'm not trying to downplay PP corruption, but I think people are understating the mismanagement of prior scandals (including Manning's UDECOTT, the Piarco airport, and others that preceded). It's easy to make an absolute statement that "xyz government is the most corrupt" and then cite specific corruption scandals as anecdotal evidence. But to do so without at least trying to compare them on some kind of comparable metric (like $$ stolen) isn't leaving much room for discussion.

Quote
This was true of the political climate in TnT generally, and of this forum specifically.  But of course you wouldn't know that, since by your own admission you seldom ventured here.  Ignorant of that context, your statement that this is "largely a one-sided board" seems particularly ridiculous, say nothing of being errant.

I was pretty clear that I said it was based on my experience/perceptions in the 2015 election cycle, and my 2010/2007 was pure speculation which I clearly disclaimer-ed.

Offline lefty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
  • would u like to buy an 'O'.........
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 10:59:49 AM »
I'll be honest and say I haven't been reading the General Discussion much in my years in of visiting this site until recently. That said, based on my non-scientific impression of the 2015 election (and thumb in the sky math), I'd say of the majority of regular posters in that main thread were staunch PNM supporters (or staunch anti-PP, not sure of the difference) - there wasn't much room for neutral discussions without it quickly descending into absolute statements sans reasoning. Case in point, every time one tried to take things out of the context of the 2015 election (i.e. trying to be somewhat impartial, objective, and less hyperbolic), I was often accused of drinking UNC koolaid, being a PP apologist, or something to that extent immediately. Usually when rebuttals resort to ad hominem attacks and just painting broad stripes, you usually know you're dealing with a partisan audience.

I'd say though, between that rubbish, there was some underlying common sense in there as well. I think folks just get too caught up with the politics of the day to take a step back and objectively compare one government to others in years/decades prior - I bet if I looked back at 2010 you'd find something similar. Probably in a year or two things can be put into better perspective.

That said, it isn't too surprising considering this is a football forum, and we know that the die-hard following of our two major sports does also have an ethnic split in this country. I suspect the situation is probably reversed on another popular forum like Trinituner that probably has a reverse ethnic split due to the nature of that board.

This entire post is rife with asinine statements.  I also find it richly ironic that you are in here playing the victim talking about people denouncing you as drinking PP Kool-Aid when in fact you have been guilty of doing the very thing you complain of.  I remember in particular an exchange I had with you about two weeks or so ago when you accused me of being part of a biased PNM clique (wildly paraphrasing).  From that point on I wrote off any discourse with you as a waste of time. 

And btw... there were a number of posters here who were adamantly against Manning (if not the PNM itself) and who voted for the Partnership, many who wanted to give COP specifically a chance, some who wanted to give Kamla a chance, and some who were in the "anybody but PNM" camp.  The most common refrain against the PNM were Manning's dictatorial style (particularly after sidelining Rowley) and the Calder Hart and Spiritual Advisor (the Pena woman) imbroglio.  There was nothing even remotely similar to the complaints about gross mismanagement and outright theft you're hearing these days about the PP.  This was true of the political climate in TnT generally, and of this forum specifically.  But of course you wouldn't know that, since by your own admission you seldom ventured here.  Ignorant of that context, your statement that this is "largely a one-sided board" seems particularly ridiculous, say nothing of being errant. 

bakes boy, I does jus let dem make dey assumptions, I remember when manning was doin he crap I used to speak, much to d glee of certain members on here, gov't change and shit start almost from day one, and d more yuh talk is d more dem get vex, man didn' vex a mere two months before when manning was in d hot seat......all of a sudden shit wasn't shit no more..... was who doh like indian and all kinda nonsense........ remember warmonga
I pity the fool....

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 11:08:05 AM »
Not sure what you're referring to. If I did, then that's unfortunate and not intended. I'll say I've made every effort to be as neutral as possible.

And I'm looking for no sympathy - frankly I just want a space where I can talk about non-partisan T&T politics and issues.

Fair enough :beermug:

That's exactly what I'm talking about though. The way Kamla was overwhelmingly voted in, despite signs that history was going to repeat itself (given that the party had many of the same suspects that got voted out when the UNC was in power prior, and that Jack was the big financier).

There were many new players as well, namely COP, MSJ etc.  Enough as to lend legitimacy to the old UNC cabal.  I don't think it was unreasonable for many (among whose number I am not to be counted) to be convinced to give the old UNC, purged of characters deemed the most toxic (such as Bas, Ramesh, Brian Kei Teung, Carlos John etc.) a chance.  Particularly so in face of what many perceived to be Manning's increasing instability.

Quote
The most common complaints against the PNM were Manning's dictatorial style (particularly after sidelining Rowley) and the Calder Hart and Spiritual Advisor (the Pena woman) imbroglio.

What I've specifically tried to argue here is that you can draw parallels between this and Kamla's issue today. Manning's dictatorial style has similarities with Kamla's lack of control tendencies. I think they approached it from the opposite ends of the spectrum - that is, Manning exerted too much control and micro-managed his cabinet while Kamla seemed to let her cabinet run amok. The big difference is somehow Kamla maintained her individual favourability (based on favourability numbers compared to how Manning brought his entire party down), but both did it to the detriment of the government/country.

I suspect that the reality is that Kamla was always a figurehead, and distancing her from the 'micro-management' ("I knows nothing... I will seek advice and respond...") and resulting scandals was a deliberate ploy so as to maintain that favorability you reference.  I think there was convenient playing up of her gender and 'grandmotherly qualities' to both promote/sustain favorability, as well as to blunt criticism.  I'm not sure what parallels meaningfully can be drawn between the two administrations, other than by the end of each the electorate had had enough.

Calder Hart was a major corruption scandal, and Rowley himself did a lot to disclose the billions of dollars in gross mismanagement that happened as part of the variety of UDECOTT projects. Again, comparable perhaps to Lifesport, Highway corruption, and other PP corrupt events but warrants comparing the dollar amounts/something to figure out which was the "worst".

I think your efforts to 'quantify' dollar-to-dollar amounts are misguided.  With all due respect I don't think anyone is interested in some scientific (economic) determination of which political administration has actually won this particular race to the bottom.  Even if your economic tally were to indicate otherwise, the sheer scope of the financial scandals (included in which the OPV contract cancellation would have to count), the favors repaid out of the national treasury, and at times repaid with in-kind favors which served to undercut the nations best interest (naked manipulation of the legal process to frustrate efforts to extradite Steve and Ish, for example). 

There have been other scandals before, such as the millions stolen by John and Kei Tung under the UNC government, John O'Halloran during the Williams/Chambers administration (or "regime" as we're inclined to call it in TnT)... but compared to the government contracts doled out to security companies while Jack was Min. of Works and Transportation... and later National Security (what a disgusting joke that was)... the contract to build a highway to nowhere, with no real benefit other than seemingly in repayment of political favors... I don't know how there could even be an argument against the notion that the PP in just one electoral cycle, not even over successive terms, has been rank out of control.


The Manning/Pena issues draw similarities to Kamla's drunk and infidelity accusations.

Quote
There was nothing even remotely similar to the complaints about gross mismanagement and outright theft you're hearing these days about the PP.

This is where I'm not sold, because everytime statements like this are made, there aren't attempts to quantify it. I'm not trying to downplay PP corruption, but I think people are understating the mismanagement of prior scandals (including Manning's UDECOTT, the Piarco airport, and others that preceded). It's easy to make an absolute statement that "xyz government is the most corrupt" and then cite specific corruption scandals as anecdotal evidence. But to do so without at least trying to compare them on some kind of comparable metric (like $$ stolen) isn't leaving much room for discussion.

Most people on this forum aren't interested in long winded dissertations... I probably come closest and honestly I'm tired of them because for the most part they are a collective wasted effort.  What you want is some kind of Afra Raymond-esque exposition that you simply won't find in a forum better suited small (but serious) talk and picong.  We tend to touch on, rather than dissect and explore issues... with very little exception.  This isn't a knock on the forum, just a statement of fact as I see it.   Again, there are a few who try to engage on a deeper level of discussion, but those remain in the minority.

Incidentally, the Piarco airport situation arose under the Panday-led UNC government, if memory serves correct.  It's the only way the connection to UNC financiers, Ish Galbaransingh and Steve Ferguson would make any sense.  Not only that, but you seem to either discount, or otherwise be unfamiliar with the sheer scope of the financial packages given to PP financiers such as SIS, who reportedly went from bankruptcy in 2010, to securing over $2 billion dollars in public contracts in the short five years the PP was in power.  This on top of the company illegally seizing public lands in Caroni and filling it in, illegal quarrying in the Northern and Central range, millions of dollars in contracts to other construction companies with PP ties... over a million dollars in contracts for Anika Gumbs' shell landscaping company, millions thrown away in "Hoop For Life", $400 million lost in LifeSport... with Anil supposedly now living as a millionaire in South Africa... my head is spinning even trying to "quantify" all of these suspect contract/transactions.  You want people to sit down online and go thru line by line and make a comparison between these crooks and other historical administrations?  Good luck with that :thumbsup:

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 11:11:32 AM »
bakes boy, I does jus let dem make dey assumptions, I remember when manning was doin he crap I used to speak, much to d glee of certain members on here, gov't change and shit start almost from day one, and d more yuh talk is d more dem get vex, man didn' vex a mere two months before when manning was in d hot seat......all of a sudden shit wasn't shit no more..... was who doh like indian and all kinda nonsense........ remember warmonga

Of the more prominent members, it had people like Brownsugar, Weary, Omardinho, daryn, dcs, warmonga... etc.  A 'whole set' of posters supported the PP if they didn't in fact go out and vote for them.  Brownsugar and Weary ahve seen the error of their ways and most of the others have fallen silent so that's why it might seem "one-sided" now.  People might be die-hards but on this forum they not so unreasonable as to dismiss opposing political views out-of-hand.

Offline Brownsugar

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 10179
  • Soca in mih veins, Soca in mih blood!!
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 12:59:39 PM »
bakes boy, I does jus let dem make dey assumptions, I remember when manning was doin he crap I used to speak, much to d glee of certain members on here, gov't change and shit start almost from day one, and d more yuh talk is d more dem get vex, man didn' vex a mere two months before when manning was in d hot seat......all of a sudden shit wasn't shit no more..... was who doh like indian and all kinda nonsense........ remember warmonga

Of the more prominent members, it had people like Brownsugar, Weary, Omardinho, daryn, dcs, warmonga... etc.  A 'whole set' of posters supported the PP if they didn't in fact go out and vote for them.  Brownsugar and Weary ahve seen the error of their ways and most of the others have fallen silent so that's why it might seem "one-sided" now.  People might be die-hards but on this forum they not so unreasonable as to dismiss opposing political views out-of-hand.

Oh gorm....before she come and see Weary never supported de PP eh  :).  She was upset with Manning too but never supported the PP.  I was the one dat bounce mih head....NEVER AGAIN!!......
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 01:01:23 PM by Brownsugar »
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline R45

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 01:03:33 PM »
Bakes, that's the most thoughtful reply I received in 2 months. I'm not understating and underestimating the sheer scale of PP  corruption, but I'm just being apprehensive about applying broad historical labels without diving deep in a comparison.

And to be honest, the economic analysis is my interest but I realized quickly it's a small bandwagon that I'm on with this one. The problem I see is we have a revolving door of politicians, and every 5 years we ride a crest of hope to only have it come crashing down when the same old names end up showing up on state boards, ministries, get favoured for contracts (regardless of party), and we see the same old tricks employed with new twists.

Anyway thanks for the response :thumbsup:

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 07:53:49 PM »
No problem  :beermug:

Offline Conquering Lion

  • Tell me how can a man who doh know his roots form his own ideology?
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 10:49:32 PM »
Trinidad is a hard place to vote strictly on religion (too many permutations for the common man). So I don't necessarily think people in Trini vote based on religion. Even if they wanted to, I think most vote where they think they would have better access to resources (as someone previously said).

On the Afro-Trinidadian side I sense a general yearning for the glory days of Eric Williams and that type of leadership (hence the "my prime minister" posts now all over the place).

There has been a general mistrust on both sides of the fence that has been created and exploited well by BOTH political parties.

As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

NAR got the closest to unifying the nation but were too intellectual and forgot about the grassroots supporters.

Panday and Kamla both had a chance to unite things but failed miserably due to damn greediness.

Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.

Question is, is Rowley up to the task and how will he go about regaining the trust of the East Indian population to move the country forward?
We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline lefty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
  • would u like to buy an 'O'.........
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 06:30:06 AM »
Trinidad is a hard place to vote strictly on religion (too many permutations for the common man). So I don't necessarily think people in Trini vote based on religion. Even if they wanted to, I think most vote where they think they would have better access to resources (as someone previously said).

On the Afro-Trinidadian side I sense a general yearning for the glory days of Eric Williams and that type of leadership (hence the "my prime minister" posts now all over the place).

There has been a general mistrust on both sides of the fence that has been created and exploited well by BOTH political parties.

As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

NAR got the closest to unifying the nation but were too intellectual and forgot about the grassroots supporters.

Panday and Kamla both had a chance to unite things but failed miserably due to damn greediness.

Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.

Question is, is Rowley up to the task and how will he go about regaining the trust of the East Indian population to move the country forward?


it is very true to a point......state employment wise...dey used to get real pressure as I understand, some even had to change there names to sound more "english" to get through, but I does wonder if dat was more about discriminating against indians or jus attempting to give black people a much needed bligh...given 1970 and before...in the grand scheme still unfair retreatment. the lack of rural development too has often been viewed as a slight against indians particularly in areas where there population is dens but rural neglect is something the PNM is guilty of in general, so there is that
I pity the fool....

Offline Socapro

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *
  • Posts: 14531
  • Ras Shorty-I, Father of Soca, Chutney-Soca & Jamoo
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2015, 06:53:43 AM »
Trinidad is a hard place to vote strictly on religion (too many permutations for the common man). So I don't necessarily think people in Trini vote based on religion. Even if they wanted to, I think most vote where they think they would have better access to resources (as someone previously said).

On the Afro-Trinidadian side I sense a general yearning for the glory days of Eric Williams and that type of leadership (hence the "my prime minister" posts now all over the place).

There has been a general mistrust on both sides of the fence that has been created and exploited well by BOTH political parties.

As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

NAR got the closest to unifying the nation but were too intellectual and forgot about the grassroots supporters.

Panday and Kamla both had a chance to unite things but failed miserably due to damn greediness.

Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.

Question is, is Rowley up to the task and how will he go about regaining the trust of the East Indian population to move the country forward?


it is very true to a point......state employment wise...dey used to get real pressure as I understand, some even had to change there names to sound more "english" to get through, but I does wonder if dat was more about discriminating against indians or jus attempting to give black people a much needed bligh...given 1970 and before...in the grand scheme still unfair retreatment. the lack of rural development too has often been viewed as a slight against indians particularly in areas where there population is dens but rural neglect is something the PNM is guilty of in general, so there is that


Quote
As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

The truth is that Indo-Trinis have generally benefitted more under the PNM that Afro-Trinis have.

It is also a fallacy that PNM is an Afro-Trini party as it has never been controlled financially by Afro-Trinis and we all know that he who pays the piper normally calls the tune.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 09:08:02 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Controversial

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6878
    • View Profile
    • Gino McKoy
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2015, 07:18:38 AM »
Trinidad is a hard place to vote strictly on religion (too many permutations for the common man). So I don't necessarily think people in Trini vote based on religion. Even if they wanted to, I think most vote where they think they would have better access to resources (as someone previously said).

On the Afro-Trinidadian side I sense a general yearning for the glory days of Eric Williams and that type of leadership (hence the "my prime minister" posts now all over the place).

There has been a general mistrust on both sides of the fence that has been created and exploited well by BOTH political parties.

As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

NAR got the closest to unifying the nation but were too intellectual and forgot about the grassroots supporters.

Panday and Kamla both had a chance to unite things but failed miserably due to damn greediness.

Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.

Question is, is Rowley up to the task and how will he go about regaining the trust of the East Indian population to move the country forward?


it is very true to a point......state employment wise...dey used to get real pressure as I understand, some even had to change there names to sound more "english" to get through, but I does wonder if dat was more about discriminating against indians or jus attempting to give black people a much needed bligh...given 1970 and before...in the grand scheme still unfair retreatment. the lack of rural development too has often been viewed as a slight against indians particularly in areas where there population is dens but rural neglect is something the PNM is guilty of in general, so there is that


Kamal should have been pm... Having spoken to kamal and him being close to the family when my grandfather was alive, it wasn't a matter of race but loyalty...

PNM disregarded him and used him when he was loyal and the most qualified to take the reigns from the Dr.. That created a rift... So when some only point fingers at one party, they must also look at what happened historically.

To be perfectly blunt, my family has historically been pro PNM.. On occasion they would cross the line but the sheer corruption from both ends has brought on this apathy... Coupled with the absence of a true visionary leader...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 07:20:44 AM by Controversial »

Offline lefty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5889
  • would u like to buy an 'O'.........
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2015, 07:34:38 AM »
Trinidad is a hard place to vote strictly on religion (too many permutations for the common man). So I don't necessarily think people in Trini vote based on religion. Even if they wanted to, I think most vote where they think they would have better access to resources (as someone previously said).

On the Afro-Trinidadian side I sense a general yearning for the glory days of Eric Williams and that type of leadership (hence the "my prime minister" posts now all over the place).

There has been a general mistrust on both sides of the fence that has been created and exploited well by BOTH political parties.

As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

NAR got the closest to unifying the nation but were too intellectual and forgot about the grassroots supporters.

Panday and Kamla both had a chance to unite things but failed miserably due to damn greediness.

Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.

Question is, is Rowley up to the task and how will he go about regaining the trust of the East Indian population to move the country forward?


it is very true to a point......state employment wise...dey used to get real pressure as I understand, some even had to change there names to sound more "english" to get through, but I does wonder if dat was more about discriminating against indians or jus attempting to give black people a much needed bligh...given 1970 and before...in the grand scheme still unfair retreatment. the lack of rural development too has often been viewed as a slight against indians particularly in areas where there population is dens but rural neglect is something the PNM is guilty of in general, so there is that


Quote
As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

The truth is that Indo-Trinis have generally benefitted more under the PNM that Afro-Trinis have.

It is also a fallacy that PNM is an Afro-Trini party as it has never been controlled financially by Afro-Trinis and we all know that he who pays the piper normally calls the tune.

PS:
And if it is correct that Ellis Clarke bypassed Kamal for PM then it simply proves that he was a wise man with plenty foresight as she was simply not up to being a good PM and leader back then and certainly not today as she has clearly proven over the past 5 years.

lol.......dread Kamaladin mohommed...not kamla......pro yuh doh strike me is being young enough to make dat mistake :o
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 07:36:23 AM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

Offline Sando prince

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9192
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2015, 07:55:38 AM »
.

Education is the key  :)


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/r1UtQreyp8E" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/r1UtQreyp8E</a>

Offline Socapro

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *
  • Posts: 14531
  • Ras Shorty-I, Father of Soca, Chutney-Soca & Jamoo
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2015, 09:06:06 AM »
Trinidad is a hard place to vote strictly on religion (too many permutations for the common man). So I don't necessarily think people in Trini vote based on religion. Even if they wanted to, I think most vote where they think they would have better access to resources (as someone previously said).

On the Afro-Trinidadian side I sense a general yearning for the glory days of Eric Williams and that type of leadership (hence the "my prime minister" posts now all over the place).

There has been a general mistrust on both sides of the fence that has been created and exploited well by BOTH political parties.

As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

NAR got the closest to unifying the nation but were too intellectual and forgot about the grassroots supporters.

Panday and Kamla both had a chance to unite things but failed miserably due to damn greediness.

Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.

Question is, is Rowley up to the task and how will he go about regaining the trust of the East Indian population to move the country forward?


it is very true to a point......state employment wise...dey used to get real pressure as I understand, some even had to change there names to sound more "english" to get through, but I does wonder if dat was more about discriminating against indians or jus attempting to give black people a much needed bligh...given 1970 and before...in the grand scheme still unfair retreatment. the lack of rural development too has often been viewed as a slight against indians particularly in areas where there population is dens but rural neglect is something the PNM is guilty of in general, so there is that


Quote
As "Great as the PNM" is, I'm not sure they were entirely fair to the East Indian segment of the population in the past........ and they also still remember Ellis Clarke bypassing Kamal for PM.

The truth is that Indo-Trinis have generally benefitted more under the PNM that Afro-Trinis have.

It is also a fallacy that PNM is an Afro-Trini party as it has never been controlled financially by Afro-Trinis and we all know that he who pays the piper normally calls the tune.

PS:
And if it is correct that Ellis Clarke bypassed Kamal for PM then it simply proves that he was a wise man with plenty foresight as she was simply not up to being a good PM and leader back then and certainly not today as she has clearly proven over the past 5 years.

lol.......dread Kamaladin mohommed...not kamla......pro yuh doh strike me is being young enough to make dat mistake :o

Sorry my bad. I obviously mis-read the name Kamal as Kamla! PS comment withdrawn. 8)
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18649
    • View Profile
Re: If you were to Vote based on Religion in T&T, NOT Race, how would you vote?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2015, 09:51:33 AM »
Trinidad needs a badjohn leader who has the country at heart because that is the only things get done in T&T.


Dude, both Eric and Patos were accused of being dictatorial and you yearning for a badjohn leader? The only way a badjohn leader will take hold of TT is with the police, army and CG firmly behind him.  Somebody like the current Egyptian president. We want that ?I am not sure allyuh know what allyuh asking for.

 

1]; } ?>