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Author Topic: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?  (Read 3681 times)

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Offline palos

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And by best.....I mean....THE VERY BEST

Despite clubs like Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea that have $$$ to burn


Yes...CR7 came from Man Utd....but he wasn't even in the top 3 players in the world until AFTER he moved to Real Madrid

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo (the original)
Messi
Neymar


The closest would be George Best and he was waaaayyyy before Premier League.

Lots of really outstanding players like Bergkamp, Henry, Suarez etc....but no...as Fernando Sancho would say.....TEEPEE TOP players.

Why is that?
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Offline FF

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2015, 07:18:05 PM »
Cristiano Ronaldo was only world class and top of the lists after he went Real Madrid? Really??

Madrid don't deal with gambles. Ronaldo had already won the Champions League, World Club Cup amongst others and was World Player of the year and runner up and 3rd place before he left for Madrid.

I give you Cantona, I give you Henry, I give you Yaya Toure 4 time African player of the year. I give you Hazard, next man to go Madrid if you believe the rumours.

The thing is English clubs have traditionally shunned and fought against the lifestyle of flash and excess that comes with marketing players as brands in the mould of The top two in Spain and lesser extent Italy. Check sir Alex. Shipping men out happily when they get too flash.

They also previous to the mid to late 2000's could not compete with the historical attraction and financial clout of those two teams, which are skewing your perspective. Remove Barcelona and Real Madrid players from your analysis and look again.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 07:42:53 PM »
^^^Not only that, but many of the very best players are South American.  British clubs, for a number of reasons, including an unwillingness to play loose with the rules, have not recruited well straight out of S. America.  Nowadays it's mostly the Spanish clubs lapping up those players, along with a handful of German and Italian clubs.  When supposedly the biggest club in the world has to fall in line and pay a third party fee to one of these Brazilian clubs for the likes of Neymar, that tells you how entrenched the system of corruption is.  Not that British clubs aren't corrupt in their own right, but England takes that stuff way more seriously than clubs on the continent.

Another important factor is for many of these S. American players culture plays a big factor... and given the option many would rather play in Europe, particularly Spain or Italy, rather than play in England.

Offline palos

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2015, 08:06:38 PM »
Cristiano Ronaldo was only world class and top of the lists after he went Real Madrid? Really??

Only after he went to Madrid was he considered one of the top 3 players in the game.

Quote
I give you Cantona, I give you Henry, I give you Yaya Toure 4 time African player of the year. I give you Hazard, next man to go Madrid if you believe the rumours.

None of those were considered to be the best players in the game.

As I said....TEEPEE TOP.

Quote
The thing is English clubs have traditionally shunned and fought against the lifestyle of flash and excess that comes with marketing players as brands in the mould of The top two in Spain and lesser extent Italy. Check sir Alex. Shipping men out happily when they get too flash.
LOL!  Won't even attempt to address that.... ;D


« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:14:38 PM by palos »
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Offline palos

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2015, 08:10:59 PM »
Another important factor is for many of these S. American players culture plays a big factor... and given the option many would rather play in Europe, particularly Spain or Italy, rather than play in England.

That is a plausible explanation.  Respect.


Case in point....Ronaldinho who reportedly vetoed a move to Man U

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Offline Jumbie

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2015, 09:06:33 PM »
Along with the 'culture' which was mentioned... Language?

man say Cantona oui!

Offline Coach

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2015, 10:25:08 PM »
Seems as EPL clubs scouting are poor. Zidane, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (the original), Messi, Neymar when these players were picked up before they became great it's very difficult for them to move due to their high value.

Offline Bakes

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 11:04:18 PM »
That is a plausible explanation.  Respect.


Case in point....Ronaldinho who reportedly vetoed a move to Man U



Not only him, Suarez is another example... said he always wanted to play in Spain, that and his wife was agitating for a move to Spain.  That and let's face facts, the English style of play isn't for everybody... and by style I don't mean aesthetics. 

English football because of pace more than anything, different from the languid style most of these men used to... that and yuh expected to track back and win ball and play defense.  Maybe it's a stereotype, but the knock on continental players (or Latin players really) is that they not willing to do the dirty work.  Another "style" issue is that in S. America and on the continent yuh could throw down yuhself when man brush up against you and earn a call.  In England they (rightly) looking at you to get up and get on with the game.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 11:05:51 PM by Bakes »

Offline Tiresais

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 01:30:51 AM »
As Bakes said, it's a different league promoting different attributes. I'd love to see what would happen if Messi came to England - Cronaldo was the type of player who does well but there's no way he'd manage as many goals as he does in Spain - the standard of the other 16 teams in England is night and day compared to Spain, primarily for monetary reasons.

You see this gulf in a number of stats - attendance of the top 6 is impressive in Spain, then it drops off - Eibar only manages 4/5k through the gates! Watford (19th out of 20th on average attendance) would be 10th in La Liga. It becomes farsical when you drop down a league - no one in Europe has a 2nd division like the Championship, and it means there are no easy games in the Premiership (at least until Derby get promoted :p)

Basically, players in the Premiership have to be at the top of their game every week without fail. If you have an off day in the Premiership, teams like Stoke will soak up your pressure and counter you. Recently the English press have been talking about how this might be impacting our European success - teams are arguably unable/less able to rest players before European games because the games are hardr and you need to secure next year's participation. Tell me that Barcelona have to face that problem when facing half the table.

Offline futbolfan

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2015, 07:49:00 AM »
As Bakes said, it's a different league promoting different attributes. I'd love to see what would happen if Messi came to England - Cronaldo was the type of player who does well but there's no way he'd manage as many goals as he does in Spain - the standard of the other 16 teams in England is night and day compared to Spain, primarily for monetary reasons.

You see this gulf in a number of stats - attendance of the top 6 is impressive in Spain, then it drops off - Eibar only manages 4/5k through the gates! Watford (19th out of 20th on average attendance) would be 10th in La Liga. It becomes farsical when you drop down a league - no one in Europe has a 2nd division like the Championship, and it means there are no easy games in the Premiership (at least until Derby get promoted :p)

Basically, players in the Premiership have to be at the top of their game every week without fail. If you have an off day in the Premiership, teams like Stoke will soak up your pressure and counter you. Recently the English press have been talking about how this might be impacting our European success - teams are arguably unable/less able to rest players before European games because the games are hardr and you need to secure next year's participation. Tell me that Barcelona have to face that problem when facing half the table.

I believe Messi would initially struggle ,but would eventually adapt and be just as dominant as he is in Spain. Case in point, Neymar struggled when he moved to Barca but this season he is playing some of the best football of his early career.

Cronaldo was scoring goals in England at a record pace, with what I believe was a weaker supporting cast. He went to Spain and was still dominant. Another example is Suarez, who moved to Spain and has continued is fine play. The top notch players like the top tier teams will adapt and continue to dominate the opposition in any league.

English press fooling people with that statement. Lack of European success boils down to the teams not being good enough.
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Offline Peong

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 10:44:26 PM »
For palos

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/cristiano-ronaldo/4224600/Cristiano-Ronaldo-wins-Fifa-World-Player-of-the-Year.html

Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo has been crowned the Fifa World Player of the Year in Zurich, the first player from the Premier League to receive the honour.

I would still say that no top player wants to move to England.
C ronaldo he wasn't the best when he moved there.
Players have become very good while there but none of the very top players want to make that move.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 10:48:51 PM by Peong »

Offline Deeks

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 10:56:46 PM »
For a league that don't draw the best players in their prime, they have been doing much better financially and overall attendance than Spain, Italy, France. And also Germany.... But by little. The German league is almost on par with the EPL. Spain is a 2 team league with the occasional win by Atletico.

Offline palos

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 11:14:30 PM »
For a league that don't draw the best players in their prime, they have been doing much better financially and overall attendance than Spain, Italy, France. And also Germany.... But by little. The German league is almost on par with the EPL. Spain is a 2 team league with the occasional win by Atletico.

Interesting about Spain

I wonder which teams have won the UEFA Europa Cup 4 of the past 6 years?

English teams?

If English teams so close in standard from top to bottom, then it stand to reason that even if they can't do well in Champions League, they should be a lock to lick up all dem "lesser teams" in Europa League ent?

Sevilla and Valencia dem eh nutting. De likes of Stoke and WBA would regularly wipe de floor wit den Spanish teams.  Doh talk fuh de likes of Spurs and Liverpool. Advantage.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 11:19:13 PM by palos »
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Offline Tiresais

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 01:18:45 AM »
For a league that don't draw the best players in their prime, they have been doing much better financially and overall attendance than Spain, Italy, France. And also Germany.... But by little. The German league is almost on par with the EPL. Spain is a 2 team league with the occasional win by Atletico.

Interesting about Spain

I wonder which teams have won the UEFA Europa Cup 4 of the past 6 years?

English teams?

If English teams so close in standard from top to bottom, then it stand to reason that even if they can't do well in Champions League, they should be a lock to lick up all dem "lesser teams" in Europa League ent?

Sevilla and Valencia dem eh nutting. De likes of Stoke and WBA would regularly wipe de floor wit den Spanish teams.  Doh talk fuh de likes of Spurs and Liverpool. Advantage.

Because England simply don't care about the Europa League - it's an on-going joke. Finishing 5th is considered worse than 9th for a lot of teams because you have the extra games and tiredness (not to mention teams who qualify for Europe and then find themselves in the relegation battle due to the intensity of the league). The prize money pales into significance compared to the Premier League prize money - teams half way down the table field their 2nd string in the Europa League because it's not worth the risk and barely anyone cares about it.

Offline palos

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 02:15:10 AM »
Allyuh could well make excuse sah

Fuss is because top players too "flash"

Now is because dey doh care bout Europa and does field 2nd string

But maybe u have a point. The likes of Liverpool and Spurs are 2nd string compared to teams in other leagues. Which is why dey does regularly get dey ass rinse in Euro competition.

Best team in the world Man City with the most $$& cannot even make CL knockout phase for 3 years running.

Dem mus be doh care needah  :)
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Offline futbolfan

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2015, 04:11:30 AM »
For a league that don't draw the best players in their prime, they have been doing much better financially and overall attendance than Spain, Italy, France. And also Germany.... But by little. The German league is almost on par with the EPL. Spain is a 2 team league with the occasional win by Atletico.

Interesting about Spain

I wonder which teams have won the UEFA Europa Cup 4 of the past 6 years?

English teams?

If English teams so close in standard from top to bottom, then it stand to reason that even if they can't do well in Champions League, they should be a lock to lick up all dem "lesser teams" in Europa League ent?

Sevilla and Valencia dem eh nutting. De likes of Stoke and WBA would regularly wipe de floor wit den Spanish teams.  Doh talk fuh de likes of Spurs and Liverpool. Advantage.

Because England simply don't care about the Europa League - it's an on-going joke. Finishing 5th is considered worse than 9th for a lot of teams because you have the extra games and tiredness (not to mention teams who qualify for Europe and then find themselves in the relegation battle due to the intensity of the league). The prize money pales into significance compared to the Premier League prize money - teams half way down the table field their 2nd string in the Europa League because it's not worth the risk and barely anyone cares about it.

Allyuh could well make excuse sah

Fuss is because top players too "flash"

Now is because dey doh care bout Europa and does field 2nd string

But maybe u have a point. The likes of Liverpool and Spurs are 2nd string compared to teams in other leagues. Which is why dey does regularly get dey ass rinse in Euro competition.

Best team in the world Man City with the most $$& cannot even make CL knockout phase for 3 years running.

Dem mus be doh care needah  :)



The massive TV contracts and sponsorship deals have major parts to play in the financial dominance of the EPL.
The language barrier and marketability are other factors to consider.


Spot on Palos... It goes back to ones exposure to a certain league. If yuh grow up watching the EPL or Championship all yuh life. Then try to view a Spanish league game here and there, yuh opinions maybe a bit skewed. How many of us have ever watched a 2nd Division Spanish or German league game?

Ah waiting for the climate excuse next....
For a league that don't draw the best players in their prime, they have been doing much better financially and overall attendance than Spain, Italy, France. And also Germany.... But by little. The German league is almost on par with the EPL. Spain is a 2 team league with the occasional win by Atletico.

Interesting about Spain

I wonder which teams have won the UEFA Europa Cup 4 of the past 6 years?

English teams?

If English teams so close in standard from top to bottom, then it stand to reason that even if they can't do well in Champions League, they should be a lock to lick up all dem "lesser teams" in Europa League ent?

Sevilla and Valencia dem eh nutting. De likes of Stoke and WBA would regularly wipe de floor wit den Spanish teams.  Doh talk fuh de likes of Spurs and Liverpool. Advantage.

Because England simply don't care about the Europa League - it's an on-going joke. Finishing 5th is considered worse than 9th for a lot of teams because you have the extra games and tiredness (not to mention teams who qualify for Europe and then find themselves in the relegation battle due to the intensity of the league). The prize money pales into significance compared to the Premier League prize money - teams half way down the table field their 2nd string in the Europa League because it's not worth the risk and barely anyone cares about it.


The massive TV contracts and sponsorship deals have major parts to play in the financial dominance of the EPL.
The language barrier and marketability are other factors to consider.


Spot on Palos... It goes back to ones exposure to a certain league. If yuh grow up watching the EPL or Championship all yuh life. Then try to view a Spanish league game here and there, yuh opinions maybe a bit skewed. How many of us have ever watched a 2nd Division Spanish or German league game?


Waiting on the climate excuse next.
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Offline Tiresais

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2015, 05:37:38 AM »
Allyuh could well make excuse sah

Fuss is because top players too "flash"

Now is because dey doh care bout Europa and does field 2nd string

But maybe u have a point. The likes of Liverpool and Spurs are 2nd string compared to teams in other leagues. Which is why dey does regularly get dey ass rinse in Euro competition.

Best team in the world Man City with the most $$& cannot even make CL knockout phase for 3 years running.

Dem mus be doh care needah  :)
Not sure what youre ranting about - no one here is claiming that Barcelona, real and all the top teams arent good. Indeed barcelona and madrid are clearly better than what England have to offer right now. They benefit from being two incredibly large dogs in a pitiful yard and can guarantee themselves champions league year after year. Talent flows to the big teams in the country - top talent is split between the big 4/5 in England.

Their leagues overall are of lower quality though - many more easy games than in the Premiership. This means that Premiership teams have a disadvantage as they are less able to rest players.

Look at Stoke's team - 12th in the table and the majority of players are national team players. Rayo Vallecano are in 12th and they have a smattering of players. How many of Rayo's squad would improve Stoke? Not even sure much of Espanyol's would improve WBA's (13th)

Offline futbolfan

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2015, 08:29:28 AM »
Allyuh could well make excuse sah

Fuss is because top players too "flash"

Now is because dey doh care bout Europa and does field 2nd string

But maybe u have a point. The likes of Liverpool and Spurs are 2nd string compared to teams in other leagues. Which is why dey does regularly get dey ass rinse in Euro competition.

Best team in the world Man City with the most $$& cannot even make CL knockout phase for 3 years running.

Dem mus be doh care needah  :)
Not sure what youre ranting about - no one here is claiming that Barcelona, real and all the top teams arent good. Indeed barcelona and madrid are clearly better than what England have to offer right now. They benefit from being two incredibly large dogs in a pitiful yard and can guarantee themselves champions league year after year. Talent flows to the big teams in the country - top talent is split between the big 4/5 in England.

Their leagues overall are of lower quality though - many more easy games than in the Premiership. This means that Premiership teams have a disadvantage as they are less able to rest players.

Look at Stoke's team - 12th in the table and the majority of players are national team players. Rayo Vallecano are in 12th and they have a smattering of players. How many of Rayo's squad would improve Stoke? Not even sure much of Espanyol's would improve WBA's (13th)



So yuh saying a big player like Bebe' can't make Stoke's 1st team?
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Offline palos

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2015, 09:12:18 AM »


So yuh saying a big player like Bebe' can't make Stoke's 1st team?

Tire go say "Be who?"  :D
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Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2015, 09:19:33 AM »
Allyuh does rell argue shit boi!  Different leagues feature and play to different attributes and strengths.  Spanish football is much more about flair than physical prowess.  The English game is more about speed and physical dominance.  I can appreciate both and will not argue that the likes of Barca, Real, Bayern, and maybe even PSG are currently stronger than their EPL counterparts.  You can't discount the fact that from 1-20 you will generally have tough matchups in the EPL.  Using the aforementioned Stoke as an example, the sheer physicality of Stoke would be a lot for any team to contend with.  Comparing Europa and EPL is disingenuous as the emphasis placed on these competitions are nowhere close to mirroring each other.  There are some teams in the EPL that will make a fair attempt to compete in Europa but depth of squad will be an issue for many teams.  The only reason Chelsea could win Europa was because they have a deep enough squad that they could rotate and rest some as necessary while competing in both competitions.  However when you place teams like Stoke, Southampton, Swansea, etc. in those competitions (depending on schedule) they will often be forced to choose one over the other.  And since the EPL pot is larger there is no way they will sacrifice that in order to try and win Europa League.  In contrast teams like Sevilla etc. from Spain can go all out for that because as a mid tier team in spain the really hard games for them is against 1-5 in the table and the rest is a morning stroll.  By comparison in the EPL the team languishing at the bottom of the table can still test and make hearts beat a lot faster for the 2nd tier teams. 

As for the top players going to England, many don't want to have to physically battle like that all season so it's much easier to go to teams like Barca and Real where it will not be so rigorous except for Derbies and El Classico.  Not sure why that is even worth a discussion.  Palos trying to press buttons it seem like lol

Offline Tiresais

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2015, 10:47:28 AM »


So yuh saying a big player like Bebe' can't make Stoke's 1st team?

Tire go say "Be who?"  :D

You mean the player rejected from Manchester United, currently on loan from Benfica? Instead of Jonathan "Just got Ireland into the Euro Championship" Walters? No thanks.

Offline Bakes

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2015, 03:55:09 PM »
Interesting about Spain

I wonder which teams have won the UEFA Europa Cup 4 of the past 6 years?

English teams?

If English teams so close in standard from top to bottom, then it stand to reason that even if they can't do well in Champions League, they should be a lock to lick up all dem "lesser teams" in Europa League ent?

Sevilla and Valencia dem eh nutting. De likes of Stoke and WBA would regularly wipe de floor wit den Spanish teams.  Doh talk fuh de likes of Spurs and Liverpool. Advantage.

European teams (on the continent) don't play Thursday-Saturday/Sunday games like English teams do.  I thought this was well-known?  That's why English teams continue to prioritise the domestic league title and send their B-sides into Europa.

Offline Bakes

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2015, 04:02:41 PM »
Look more excuses...

Quote
'This player earns £50,000 per week, or around £2.5m a year, and at the moment his take-home pay is a shade under £30,000 per week,' he said. 'When the 50p tax rate comes in, he will be around £4,000 per week worse off playing in England than in Spain, where there are no planned tax rises.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1189864/Millionaire-footballers-evade-new-50-tax-rate-taking-wages-free-loans.html#ixzz3rsoj2gZR

Offline Peong

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2015, 05:20:59 PM »
Well the europa winner now goes to the cl but the epl teams probably not able with that.

Offline KND2

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2015, 05:36:48 PM »
weather, tackles and pace of the game.

why go england and get hit with cold rain when you could stay in spain and play the passing game.

Technical players like to play in technical leagues.

How many of the top players in the league play on teams besides Barca and Real?

that is the real question.

Offline Fyzo10

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Re: why has the Premier League never attracted the world's best players?
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2015, 05:45:36 PM »
thierry henry??

 

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