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Author Topic: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.  (Read 8119 times)

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Offline Deeks

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2016, 08:11:56 AM »
I thought I saw Sean's name in the AntiguaBarbuda line up?

Offline amielisadore

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2016, 08:37:09 AM »
I thought I saw Sean's name in the AntiguaBarbuda line up?

Doubt it. He has never committed to them. Still interested in playing for T&T.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2016, 07:56:26 AM »
Do we want the best for TnT? yes
Do we want to see our team humiliated at  a big time tournament? no

Have we learned form the Guyana debacle? ummmmmm

Did we not have a combined contingent of  some of our  so called best overseas players? did we not have a foreign coach?

When will we  put a long term strategic plan in place to focus on development of a team for WC qualifying instead of INSTANT results?

I am not opposed to combining the best of our talented players be they abroad or local, however we need to find a way to ensure that our dependency on those players who are abroad are readily available to commit to the process and that our local players are at a standard that will provide us with legitimate and competitive opportunities for continuing success.

If we value a K Jones
, what is the possibility of having a local player  who fits that abilities? We then develop local players with the aptitudes and skills which the foreign base player brings. Time to look at different ways of developing , selecting and planning for long term success.
 

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2016, 08:03:59 AM »
I thought I saw Sean's name in the AntiguaBarbuda line up?

His name was among a group of players named in an article ... if it's that article (on the CFU thread), I put ah note below as ah caution/caveat regarding the date ... because the list was prospective rather than certain.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 10:31:48 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2016, 06:49:31 AM »
This should have been going on all along as had been done in the past. That was before Jack and them. We need a local squad so that the coach can see how the socalled fringe players do in international competition. The CFU should have a championship for local players who play in the Caribbean only. Right now the current championship is used for qualification for Concacaf. So coaches will not use locals only. They will include their overseas pros (US, EUROPE, ASIA, MID EAST) for a better chance of qualifying. But a local only tournament in the alternate year will only help all the national teams will regular international games for these players at home.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 02:24:55 PM by Deeks »

Offline Sando

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2016, 07:43:10 AM »
Missed this one, time to revisit.

Excellent, I saw the TTFA/Hart tried it against Grenada and I believe it's an exercise worth exploring.

We may not get success right away, but it would surely come.


Offline Tobago28

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2016, 08:00:56 AM »
With technology and many coaches in the diaspora, we can have foreign based teams at U13, U15 and U17. That is choose an area like NYC, with many nationals and work with a club/coach to gather nationals at those age groups for training and ID once per month. It will not interrupt with the players normal football nor school, it would get players interested and committed to TNT early and not leave us scrambling at the last minute to identify foreign based players. Quarterly reports on players with video would be easily forwarded to TTFA and technical director.

Offline Errol

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2016, 11:08:30 AM »
We need a local core of players, we consistently picking foreign based players who do not play regular for their clubs. How can you put a team together every 2 months and expect them to play well?

Players like Wright-Phillips, Sheanon Williams, Tyler David, Ryan Inniss, Shaquell Moore and Nick De Leon will raise the attitude of the ones we have now because there are no competition for a place on the team. Hart keeps using 15 players, no wonder the team is playing flat.

I hope to see Primus and Cummings back soon too.

If this idea was implemented a long time now, we would have found a few decent players by now. Of course, the TTFA have to make it happen.


Offline Errol

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2016, 03:53:42 PM »
This is the only way T&T will get better, I'll keep saying it.


Offline palos

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2016, 04:11:19 PM »
We need a local core of players, we consistently picking foreign based players who do not play regular for their clubs. How can you put a team together every 2 months and expect them to play well?

Players like Wright-Phillips, Sheanon Williams, Tyler David, Ryan Inniss, Shaquell Moore and Nick De Leon will raise the attitude of the ones we have now because there are no competition for a place on the team. Hart keeps using 15 players, no wonder the team is playing flat.

I hope to see Primus and Cummings back soon too.

If this idea was implemented a long time now, we would have found a few decent players by now. Of course, the TTFA have to make it happen.



Here's the problem with this local core lyrics.

The best players in local football inevitably get sold to foreign clubs

Why?

Because the local clubs need $$ and the only revenue generator they have are players.

Foreign clubs not going to buy your average player.  They want the best players.

So....the best local players end up playing abroad.  There they have to compete with other "best" players from around the globe.

Therefore....BY DEFINITION.....the local players left are often NOT the best players eligible to represent T&T.



The argument is....let the local players play for the national team and get "exposure".

Sadly...that has happened and the only thing the majority of them get is exposed.   Exposed to be not nearly good enough for international football.  Exposed technically, physically, and mentally.

Now the experience is good because they at least get a taste of what is required at international level.  So they know they need to improve.

But how are they to improve?  They all go back to the Pro League which everyone acknowledges is sub standard, the pace of play is pedestrian, and the quality on display is sub par.

In addition to that, several Pro League clubs refuse to release their players for National team training UNLESS it's a FIFA window.   Their rationale being..."Chelsea does refuse to release players unless is in FIFA window so why do we have to release them?  We no different than Chelsea.  We're also a professional club".

So what's going to happen when the local core as you put it return to the national team?  They'll play better through osmosis?  Just by being on the same field as Ruiz, and Navas, and Joel Campbell will cause them to be better players?
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline palos

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2016, 04:49:24 PM »
We need a local core of players, we consistently picking foreign based players who do not play regular for their clubs. How can you put a team together every 2 months and expect them to play well?

Players like Wright-Phillips, Sheanon Williams, Tyler David, Ryan Inniss, Shaquell Moore and Nick De Leon will raise the attitude of the ones we have now because there are no competition for a place on the team. Hart keeps using 15 players, no wonder the team is playing flat.

I hope to see Primus and Cummings back soon too.

If this idea was implemented a long time now, we would have found a few decent players by now. Of course, the TTFA have to make it happen.



Here's a list of players called to the T&T Mens National Team by Stephen Hart from June 2013 (CONCACAF Gold Cup) to present (3 years, 5 months):

Total Players = 61.  I doubt he plan it but 31 or the 61 players are local based.  Not sure what else could be done to have more "local" based players on the national team.

Golakeepers - 6
Jan Michael Williams - local
Marvin Phillip - local
Adrian Foncette - local
Cleon John - local
Glenroy Samuel - local
Greg Ranjitsingh - foreign


Defenders - 21
Daneil Cyrus - local
Radanfah Abu Bakr - foreign
Sheldon Bateau - foreign
Yohance Marshall - foreign
Carlyle Mitchell - foreign
Mekeil Williams - foreign
Aubrey David- foreign
Robert Primus - foreign
Dwane James - local
Jerlani Peters - local
Tristan Hodge - foreign
Seon Power - foreign
Curtis Gonzalez - foreign
Justin Hoyte - foreign
Gavin Hoyte - foreign
Andre Etienne - local
Weslie John - local
Alvin Jones - local
Jamali Garcia - local
Kevon Villaroel - local
Elijah Belgrave - local


Midfielders - 24
Khaleem Hyland - foreign
Ataullah Guerra - foreign
Kevan George - foreign
Cordell Cato - foreign
Kevin Molino - foreign
Lester Peltier - foreign
Keron Cummings - local
Andre Boucaud- foreign
Neveal Hackshaw - local
Hughton Hector - local
Levi Garcia - foreign
Joevin Jones - foreign
Kevon Carter - RIP
Keon Daniel - ??
Marcus Joseph - local
Carlos Edwards - foreign (at the time of selection...now local)
Christopher Birchall - foreign
Leston Paul - local
Sean De Silva - local
Jomal Williams - foreign
Nathan Lewis - local
Nathaniel Garcia - local
Akeem Humphrey - local
Jason Marcano - local


Forwards - 10
Kenwyne Jones (capt). - local (foreign at time of selection)
Jonathan Glenn - foreign
Willis Plaza - local
Kadeem Corbin - local
Rundell Winchester - foreign
Darryl Roberts - foreign
Cornell Glen - local (now foreign)
Jamal Gay - local
Makesi Lewis - local
Jeremy Balthazar - local
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 05:02:33 PM by palos »
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Errol

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2016, 04:59:58 PM »
61 players and he only use 15 consistently.

Them fellas tired, unchallenged and unfit.

When Hart went to the 2013 gold cup, he did not name the squad, Shabazz already had named the team.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 05:03:24 PM by Errol »

Offline palos

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2016, 05:08:19 PM »
61 players and he only use 15 consistently.

Them fellas tired, unchallenged and unfit.

When Hart went to the 2013 gold cup, he discovered not name the squad, Shabazz already had named the team.



Every GOOD coach has a core.  That's actually the hallmark of good teams.  A solid core where everyone knows their roles and knows what is expected of them.

If there aren't challengers, thats neither the incumbent or the coach fault.  Other players by dint of performance should be breaking down the door to get into the team.

That's how Kevan George took Andre Boucaud's place.  It's how Neveal Hackshaw forced his way onto the squad, if not the final XI.  Same for Levi Garcia at Peltier's expense.

When the West Indies team was under Lloyd how many changes did that team have? 

BTW...Shabazz not only named...but coached the team against Guyana in the 2014 World Cup qualifiers.  How did that go?

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 05:13:20 PM by palos »
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Offline Errol

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2016, 05:15:05 PM »
I'm not comparing Shabaaz, because he was total crap. I just wanted to point out he was the one that named the squad.

More players get exposed even if they go aboard at least he would have options and would not be in the position he's in now.

Depth is needed.

Hart is good, but I believe he is not supported and is constantly under pressure by DJW and his crew.


Offline Deeks

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2016, 05:24:50 PM »
Look, the core and most of the team is the foreign based players. About 7 of 11 starters are foreign based. We are not getting the quality we are expecting from the overseas guys. What should the coach and the association do? Go  and look for the next batch of local players. That is why TTFA should have a local squad. As a matter of fact the CFU should have a tournament for players who only play in the Caribbean.

Offline palos

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2016, 05:28:03 PM »
Depth is needed.

Agreed.  Unfortunately any international coach is restricted in that regard

You can only select players who are deemed eligible to play for the country.

If you want to have a local core......then you'll need to have them play REGULARLY as a team against decent opposition

So the TTFA will have to mandate to Pro League clubs that players selected for the national team MUST attend ALL practice sessions and games.

Pro League clubs will then demand (rightfully so) compensation, otherwise, their product is not viable.

But let's say this is somehow accomplished.

Then the TTFA will have to arrange regular competitive matches to test the "local based" team.  Is no use they play against WASA or Mau Pau.   That does nothing for their development.

So let's say TTFA able to arrange some matches (they should be able to play Guyana regularly at least).  Then they'll be able to say....we can play with Guyana.  That is international ball at least.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2016, 08:09:20 PM »
Palos  that could work also.

Offline injunchile

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2016, 01:19:14 PM »
Revisit Palos post and let us put this local talk to rest- Some of us are tired of the same thing.
 Let us take off the rose colored glasses- W e just cant cut it- Not only in discipline but fitness and footballing intelligence. Let us face it the cream will always rise to the top and go abroad else they will become a big fish in a small pond- Ask Arnold  Dwarika if you  think I lie. Having said that there was a small guy by the name of Toussaint who showed remarkable positioning and good ball sense with the ability to take on players and he even was a regular goal scorer but faded in the background from lack of International exposure.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2016, 01:44:54 PM »
Injun. The issue is not about only picking locals. Most of the locals who go abroad improve a lot. But this current bunch not pulling their weight. In the GC they were good but yet not good enough to make it to the 1/4 final. The foreign players must step up their game. They missing in action for the past 2 games.

Offline palos

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2016, 01:48:10 PM »
Injun. The issue is not about only picking locals. Most of the locals who go abroad improve a lot. But this current bunch not pulling their weight. In the GC they were good but yet not good enough to make it to the 1/4 final. The foreign players must step up their game. They missing in action for the past 2 games.

So your solution is to replace them with local based players and then the team will play better?
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Offline Mose

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2016, 02:52:18 PM »
We need a local core of players, we consistently picking foreign based players who do not play regular for their clubs. How can you put a team together every 2 months and expect them to play well?

Players like Wright-Phillips, Sheanon Williams, Tyler David, Ryan Inniss, Shaquell Moore and Nick De Leon will raise the attitude of the ones we have now because there are no competition for a place on the team. Hart keeps using 15 players, no wonder the team is playing flat.

I hope to see Primus and Cummings back soon too.

If this idea was implemented a long time now, we would have found a few decent players by now. Of course, the TTFA have to make it happen.



Here's the problem with this local core lyrics.

The best players in local football inevitably get sold to foreign clubs


Why?

Because the local clubs need $$ and the only revenue generator they have are players.

Foreign clubs not going to buy your average player.  They want the best players.

So....the best local players end up playing abroad.  There they have to compete with other "best" players from around the globe.

Therefore....BY DEFINITION.....the local players left are often NOT the best players eligible to represent T&T.



The argument is....let the local players play for the national team and get "exposure".

Sadly...that has happened and the only thing the majority of them get is exposed.   Exposed to be not nearly good enough for international football.  Exposed technically, physically, and mentally.

Now the experience is good because they at least get a taste of what is required at international level.  So they know they need to improve.

But how are they to improve?  They all go back to the Pro League which everyone acknowledges is sub standard, the pace of play is pedestrian, and the quality on display is sub par.

In addition to that, several Pro League clubs refuse to release their players for National team training UNLESS it's a FIFA window.   Their rationale being..."Chelsea does refuse to release players unless is in FIFA window so why do we have to release them?  We no different than Chelsea.  We're also a professional club".

So what's going to happen when the local core as you put it return to the national team?  They'll play better through osmosis?  Just by being on the same field as Ruiz, and Navas, and Joel Campbell will cause them to be better players?


If yuh ask me dat is the elephant in the room that no one seems to acknowledge when this local vs foreign talk comes up!! Thank you for laying it out palos!!  :beermug:
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Offline Sando

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2017, 04:53:23 PM »
MLS season starts back in March.

We have 4 players in Europe, Levi, Boucaud, Hyland and Bateau.

Abu Bak I'm not sure about his schedule.

Peliter and Hoyte is still questionable so I didn't include them because they have no suited up for T&T in a while.

Then the rest of our players are based home.

So by now until March we should be able to get in a few games before our WCQ starts back.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 04:57:23 PM by Sando »

Offline Controversial

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2017, 04:58:40 PM »
Depth is needed.

Agreed.  Unfortunately any international coach is restricted in that regard

You can only select players who are deemed eligible to play for the country.

If you want to have a local core......then you'll need to have them play REGULARLY as a team against decent opposition

So the TTFA will have to mandate to Pro League clubs that players selected for the national team MUST attend ALL practice sessions and games.

Pro League clubs will then demand (rightfully so) compensation, otherwise, their product is not viable.

But let's say this is somehow accomplished.

Then the TTFA will have to arrange regular competitive matches to test the "local based" team.  Is no use they play against WASA or Mau Pau.   That does nothing for their development.

So let's say TTFA able to arrange some matches (they should be able to play Guyana regularly at least).  Then they'll be able to say....we can play with Guyana.  That is international ball at least.
Depth is needed.

Agreed.  Unfortunately any international coach is restricted in that regard

You can only select players who are deemed eligible to play for the country.

If you want to have a local core......then you'll need to have them play REGULARLY as a team against decent opposition

So the TTFA will have to mandate to Pro League clubs that players selected for the national team MUST attend ALL practice sessions and games.

Pro League clubs will then demand (rightfully so) compensation, otherwise, their product is not viable.

But let's say this is somehow accomplished.

Then the TTFA will have to arrange regular competitive matches to test the "local based" team.  Is no use they play against WASA or Mau Pau.   That does nothing for their development.

So let's say TTFA able to arrange some matches (they should be able to play Guyana regularly at least).  Then they'll be able to say....we can play with Guyana.  That is international ball at least.

Forget Guyana..

The local squad should be playing clubs at first, from Argentina, Mexico, Brazil, the us, and then Europe ... after that, then play countries, clubs will give them a better test than Guyana ...

Offline Controversial

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2017, 05:00:18 PM »
Top clubs... having camps there and a budget with a proper training regime, these players home should be training for 120 min football like in Germany

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2017, 06:53:01 AM »
Yuh know....it all well and good to think and want a local team that consistently is training.
Anybody could give me an example of what country uses that and it working?

As Palos said....naturally with our best local players being exposed they would most likely move abroad and therefore not be local based again.
Plus getting them to train.

Spain...Germany..Holland...they had a football blueprint for their teams....using all clubs...for all age groups. Fitness standards established. So even if players domestically based...they at least following a coherent plan.

What do we have? The Pro-League is woeful. Men struggling to make it abroad and coming back home and starring. The intensity low. The quality low.

With all due respect to those who have gone before......times have changed..and while we not saying the previous PRINCIPLES may not apply...the execution and application of those principles would have to evolve to fit the current context.

Just last night I read a letter Gally wrote to Wired868. Yuh getting the bitterness and tote in it. Saying he had the most exciting local team...and is the most successful local coach...and basically saying he should be given a chance. Again with all due respect to Gally...the players he had at his disposal..the context of football then....as  compared to the situation now...is vastly different. I cant see it being immediately expected that the same results would happen.

That was in 1987 to 1990. We didnt adapt and evolve to meet the change. We struggling to catch up now. We cant expect ideas that worked 30 years ago to work the same way now. The way names being thrown about as to who should be the coach....my question is...for those who were trying to justify DJW selection of Saintfeild....how many coaches have international certification? What are we really going towards? Success is an achievement of purpose...whats the purpose of what we trying to do?

The technical director or technical committee...what are their plans? Is there a short..medium and long term plan? Are there specific targets? Are there metrics with which we can gauge progress?

If you dont know where you going...then any road will take you there.


And when you add the agendas and favoring of special persons and feeding at troughs...well.....you make things even worse.

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Offline Mose

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2017, 11:10:03 AM »
MLS season starts back in March.

We have 4 players in Europe, Levi, Boucaud, Hyland and Bateau.

Abu Bak I'm not sure about his schedule.

Peliter and Hoyte is still questionable so I didn't include them because they have no suited up for T&T in a while.

Then the rest of our players are based home.

So by now until March we should be able to get in a few games before our WCQ starts back.



MLS clubs start training in January. Hasn't Kenwyne already left for Atlanta?
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Offline Flex

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2017, 03:58:30 PM »
U.S. coach Bruce Arena won't favor Europe-based players over MLS talent
BY JEFF CARLISLE (ESPN).


U.S. men's national team manager Bruce Arena indicated that when it comes to building his roster for the March World Cup qualifiers, "it doesn't matter" whether a player is playing domestically or overseas.

Arena just concluded the U.S. team's annual January camp, one that saw him get a close look at 31 domestic players. But with the MLS season not set to begin until March 3, there are questions as to how sharp they will be heading into the critical matches against Honduras in San Jose, California, on March 24, and then away to Panama four days later.

As a point of comparison, foreign-based players will have been playing for about eight months. But Arena insisted he'll look at each player on a case-by-case basis.

"We're going to follow every player, both in Europe, Mexico, the U.S. and Canada, and decide on who we think are the best group of players to help us get some results," he said on a conference call with reporters. "It doesn't matter where they come from. We have players in Europe who aren't playing.

"We have players in Europe that are playing a lot. It's the same case in Mexico. And then in the U.S. the players we've had in camp are for the most part the players that will be under consideration for the March roster.

"They have a bit of a jump, so they have another six weeks or so to be prepared for the March camp."

Arena added that he'll be visiting U.S. players playing in Germany, England, and Mexico over the coming weeks.

Included in that group are fringe players like Nottingham Forest outside back Eric Lichaj and Club Tijuana midfielder Paul Arriola, with Arena stating that they were under "strong consideration" for the March camp.

"[Those visits] will help us make some final determinations as to how he'll piece together our roster," he said.

One player who hasn't been seeing time is Middlesbrough goalkeeper Brad Guzan. Guzan, who will join MLS expansion side Atlanta United in the summer, has been stuck on the bench behind starter Victor Valdes. But Arena said Guzan remains very much a candidate to take the field against Honduras.

"Brad Guzan is a very experienced goalkeeper, and as we saw in the case of Nick Rimando in the January camp, that experience means a lot," said Arena. "Because they're not getting games on a consistent basis doesn't mean you can rule them out. I think Brad has shown enough that he's still a strong candidate to be our No. 1 goalkeeper."

Guzan's status is impacted in part by the groin injury Tim Howard sustained back in November that required surgery. But Arena wasn't necessarily ruling out Howard being on the squad either.

"[Howard] is on schedule to maybe start the first week of the MLS season. Having said that, [his recovery] could be off a couple of weeks, and perhaps he won't be a candidate for March. But right now he's in the picture, and that's a positive as well," Arena said.

Arena also seemed more optimistic about the status of Stoke City defender Geoff Cameron, who has been sidelined by a knee injury since October.

"[Cameron] is making progress and he'll be back in full training shortly," said Arena.

The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2017, 04:07:02 PM »
I think Arena has all right to build a loacal based team. But ah tell yuh, if any foreign based player lighting it up in any overseas league, let's see if he will stick to his guns.


Offline Marcos

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2017, 04:21:02 PM »
Fellas,

Read through this thread. Can someone explain to me why our local-based team cannot be exceptionally fit? I understand there may be shortcomings in talent etc., but fitness seems like the lowest hanging fruit. Especially before the qualifiers if the pro league is in off season. These guys should be in camp for a 4 to 6 weeks and in prime condition. What makes one team fitter than another? Does it just come down to physical ability again?
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Offline Mose

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Re: Building a local team could be a step in the right direction.
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2017, 12:57:32 AM »
Fellas,

Read through this thread. Can someone explain to me why our local-based team cannot be exceptionally fit? I understand there may be shortcomings in talent etc., but fitness seems like the lowest hanging fruit. Especially before the qualifiers if the pro league is in off season. These guys should be in camp for a 4 to 6 weeks and in prime condition. What makes one team fitter than another? Does it just come down to physical ability again?

Because most people don't fully understand just what it takes to achieve that!
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