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Offline Tallman

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TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« on: November 05, 2016, 11:17:44 AM »
TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
By Joel Bailey (T&T Newsday)


THE TRINIDAD and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) has agreed to drop the name “Soca Warriors” from its website, and subsequently discontinue the use of the name.

This decision was made unanimously in a recent Board of Directors meeting and comes on the heels of a pre-action protocol letter issued by local sports broadcaster Selwyn Melville to the local body over its use.

Melville has claimed he coined the term “Soca Warriors” 18 years ago and is seeking US$30 million for its use by the local football organisation.

A month ago, the TTFA denied officially switching the team’s nickname from “Soca Warriors” to “Red Army”, which was used in reference to the national team, in a few media releases.

According to the minutes to the meeting held by the TTFA recently, a copy of which was obtained by Newsday, members of the local governing body for football made it clear, “the TTFA’s preference is not to jointly own the name (Mr Melville already knows that).” They outlined that “Soca Warriors” is a name and the name and brand are two things. Looking forward to the post-Soca Warriors era, the TTFA agreed to re-brand the national team and “the TTFA has received one estimate for re-branding, it will cost approximately $1.7 million”.

The TTFA, after the discussions, decided to remove forthwith “Soca Warriors” from its website. However, it noted, “if the press wants to use it, (the) TTFA cannot control that (and) no statement is to be made by (the) TTFA”.

Efforts to contact TTFA president David John-Williams for a comment yesterday proved futile.
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Offline g

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2016, 11:34:42 AM »
So Selwyn, after all the huff and puff you leave with nothing.

I dont know who was advising him. He and his family could have been set for life if they agreed a revenue share option rather than this big upfront payment which in all honesty the FA could not have paid.

If i was a FA board member i probably would have agreed to the discontinued use as well.

As a fan i would wished they could have worked out something to keep the brand.
Soca Warriors, the pride of a nation

Offline Quags

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2016, 01:00:27 PM »
Change it to soccer warriors that's what ppl call us anyways lol

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2016, 03:30:29 PM »
TNT DYNAMITE!

Offline elan

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2016, 03:37:11 PM »
I really loved the T20 Red Steel.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2016, 03:54:46 PM »
I like Red Steel, Red Warriors, jack Spanyah.

Offline Deeks

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2016, 04:13:38 PM »
So Mr. Melville will ask the forum to stop using the name or pay up to use it?.

Offline Jumbie

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2016, 04:53:41 PM »
So Mr. Melville will ask the forum to stop using the name or pay up to use it?.

Wow... that would be interesting.

Real sad to see that it came to this.. soca warriors was real fitting.


Offline asylumseeker

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2016, 06:50:04 PM »
As a young nation, we have young institutions. Our national football teams - despite the historical turbulence of piss poor administration - provide a focal point and resonance for Trinbagonians everywhere. The effect of this mischief is to undo a rallying institutional concept that brought with it so many elements of a nation-in-building and of a built nation.

When one listens to Maximus Dan, the power is more than in the music. It is something that seeps from the music into broader national identification. Not just for our "self", but national ID of us by others. In some ways, we take a step backwards by demolishing the house we built together.

On the other hand, if rebranding must occur, we should take advantage of it as a new UNIFYING opportunity.

Seems a good moment to have artistic consultation from a broad cultural base in the society, to generate a message about football and its power to keep everyone in the same "house", despite divisions away from the stands and the field. We can't afford to destroy "institutions".

This whole episode is about institutional memory, ownership and history. Let it not be about cultural amnesia and perceived easy solutions.

Choice for all time, not just for this moment.

You can't build traditions if institutions are periodically eroded or destroyed.

Personally, I thought the name basic and a bit limiting in that it reflects a part of the sum rather than a sum of the parts. But, as part of the national pantheon, I embraced it.

Where do we go from here?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 01:21:20 AM by asylumseeker »
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Offline Quags

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2016, 07:01:40 PM »
Soca Kings !

Offline sjahrain

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2016, 10:00:28 AM »
Strike Squad....to Soca Warriors .....what's next  and what comes after the next change
How many times will you rebrand.....

Offline Quags

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2016, 11:58:05 AM »
Flex like he like ,Red Army .

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2016, 12:12:34 PM »
Pelau united!
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Offline Bakes

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2016, 12:26:45 AM »
I could only shake my head at these f**king people yes.  In most developed nations Selwyn Melville would get laughed out of court.  In Trinidad & Tobago, well...

Offline g

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 06:07:56 AM »
I could only shake my head at these f**king people yes.  In most developed nations Selwyn Melville would get laughed out of court.  In Trinidad & Tobago, well...

You know what irks me the most, Selwyn and his team not operating with any semblance of sense and sensibility.

I not denying Selwyn the right to his intellectual property right. If his ownership is established then so be it, but if you want to negotiate with the FA on revenue for the use of that property then firstly you need to understand what the existing ability is for your adjunct party to pay. The FA for years have been in the red and only now starting to operate on a profit basis. DJW has many faults but at least over the years he has show he can run business in and out of football.

Let's be real, the FA does not have 30 million to pay anybody, how on earth could he arrive at such a figure. OK even if a big chunk of that figure was for foregone revenue calculated since 98 or whenever, the present administration still not in a position to pay. I don't know if the FA had a counter offer or the full negotiation cycle but 30 million upfront is significant for a fledgling organization now trying to function properly.

Maybe someone familiar with intellectual property law can chime in if he can still claim for damages for the retroactive use up till present. I don't even know how valid that will be, and may only be liable from the defined point of ownership which was only more recent and may further only be valid from the point a claim was made, and if the negotiations were in good faith then even then he may not be able to claim anything.

I would have negotiated some sort of payment scheme that would have included an annual usage fee, a retroactive surcharge to cover previous use that would eventually expire at some future date and maybe a profit sharing option. To sweeten the deal, you tie the payments to the audited accounting schedule that is tied to FIFA funding so you only get paid at a minimum when the FA gets their subvention from FIFA, it will encourage the FA to be above board which keeps the payments alive.

Selwyn i giving you some options if not already considered cause as what was posted before, as a fan we cannot be harvesting institutions like this but you cannot put this edition of the FA in this position and not expect this outcome. I'm sure this is not the outcome you really want. Without knowing the FA's counter position, if they are willing to pay 1.7 million to re-brand, ask the FA for the 1.7 million they were going to re-brand and start from there with some other negotiated use. Keep Soca Warriors alive.
Soca Warriors, the pride of a nation

Offline Bakes

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2016, 09:58:37 AM »
I not denying Selwyn the right to his intellectual property right.

Before we get to the rest of your comment, the inquiry should begin with whether he has any intellectual property rights in the first place.  Even if he can prove that it was he who first coined the term, and that's a big if, then the issue becomes one of whether he sought to protect any rights that may have been established by that.  Did he register or trademark the name as his intellectual property?  Of course he didn't a) because even he himself hasn't made that claim; b) because a search of the relevant registries returned no such name as "Soca Warriors" as a protected interest.  Not only that, but the name has been in the public domain, and universally applied as to the TnT national teams, for at least 10 years... going back to 2006 and prior.

So to recap:  He hasn't conclusively proved that he was the first to coin the name, took no steps to protect his purported interest, hasn't sought to address the issue of whether any asserted rights have been diluted by time and popular usage... but here we are debating how much he should be paid.  You don't have to have any kind of legal training to understand that this b.s. claim has no legs.  But God bless the DJW TTFA...

Offline Trin

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2016, 11:02:12 AM »
One has to wonder who the hell giving them legal advice and the precedent that this will set.

Offline g

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2016, 01:00:22 PM »
I not denying Selwyn the right to his intellectual property right.

Before we get to the rest of your comment, the inquiry should begin with whether he has any intellectual property rights in the first place.  Even if he can prove that it was he who first coined the term, and that's a big if, then the issue becomes one of whether he sought to protect any rights that may have been established by that.  Did he register or trademark the name as his intellectual property?  Of course he didn't a) because even he himself hasn't made that claim; b) because a search of the relevant registries returned no such name as "Soca Warriors" as a protected interest.  Not only that, but the name has been in the public domain, and universally applied as to the TnT national teams, for at least 10 years... going back to 2006 and prior.

So to recap:  He hasn't conclusively proved that he was the first to coin the name, took no steps to protect his purported interest, hasn't sought to address the issue of whether any asserted rights have been diluted by time and popular usage... but here we are debating how much he should be paid.  You don't have to have any kind of legal training to understand that this b.s. claim has no legs.  But God bless the DJW TTFA...

Fair enough, my argument was based on the premise that ownership was established. My own assumption was that if the FA took a firm brand decision on the basis of just a pre-action protocol letter then there must have been some merit to the claim. (Shrugs)

The FA could probably contest ownership but that is litigation and cost with no cap, and even with that there is no guarantee that FA will get the outcome they want.
Soca Warriors, the pride of a nation

Offline palos

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2016, 01:18:08 PM »

Doh put it past DJW to rebrand as W Connection T&T

Or W T&T Connection or sumting so
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Offline Quags

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2016, 01:21:51 PM »
It's a shame ,just imagine if one man made the Reggea Boyz change there name.

Offline Trin

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2016, 01:49:49 PM »
funny thing is the name eh changing. Fans will still use it. What Selwyn go do? Take everyone to court? Is just the TTFA that have cut themselves off from using it. One can only assume to not accrue legal costs associated with fighting Mr. Melville. Stupid.

Offline Bakes

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2016, 01:52:15 PM »
Fair enough, my argument was based on the premise that ownership was established. My own assumption was that if the FA took a firm brand decision on the basis of just a pre-action protocol letter then there must have been some merit to the claim. (Shrugs)

The FA could probably contest ownership but that is litigation and cost with no cap, and even with that there is no guarantee that FA will get the outcome they want.

With any sort of litigation there is no guarantee that a party will get the outcome they seek, that hasn't stopped the DJW TTFA from courting litigation though... just ask Kendall Walkes, Sheldon Phillips and a number of other unpaid past-employees/vendors.  But even if litigation aversion was the proffered reason why they decided to discontinue use of the name, certainly being confronted with a conservative estimate of "$1.7 million dollars" would be incentive enough to give pause to any rebranding as an option.

Offline Deeks

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2016, 06:43:33 PM »
So Forumites. What's in a name. Should it be Red Army, Red Steel(We could buy the name from the cricketers,  or beg them to use it), Red Bachak, Jack Spanyah.

Offline palos

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2016, 07:11:18 PM »
TNT.  What better name allyuh want?
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Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2016, 07:50:11 PM »
TNT.  What better name allyuh want?

Yeah. TNT Dynamite.

I like "Red Steel" too.

Offline Jumbie

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2016, 08:01:16 PM »
Red Army = Russian Hockey

Offline Quags

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2016, 11:33:57 PM »
TNT.  What better name allyuh want?

Yeah. TNT Dynamite.

I like "Red Steel" too.
[/quote
Red Army = Russian Hockey
Can't be that .
That be a rare usage of a redundant oxymoron .

Offline Sando prince

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2016, 07:48:40 AM »

Ten years from now we will change to something else. We do not love our culture. Soca Warriors is a brand name that has cultural relevance to many T&T football fans. What is red army ?

Doh worry ah next bunch of old men will change the new name in the future.

Offline Deeks

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2016, 09:14:46 AM »

Ten years from now we will change to something else. We do not love our culture. Soca Warriors is a brand name that has cultural relevance to many T&T football fans. What is red army ?

Doh worry ah next bunch of old men will change the new name in the future.

Breds is not we on the forum ask for change. Ah man claiming he is the rightful owner of the name will sue TTFA if he is not compensated. TTFA don't have the money, so they desist from using the name. I will continue to call them the Soca Warriors.  I don't know if the forum name will have to change or not. The legal people on the forum can make some kind of sense of it. As far as I know the forum is quite contented with the name. But if the man serve paper what will Flex, Tallman, Asylum and them go do?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 09:58:53 AM by Deeks »

Offline MEP

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Re: TTFA to drop Soca Warriors name
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2016, 09:55:09 AM »
That surprises me about Melville...guess the eat ah food mentality has gotten to him too.
Assuming that he coined the term and I use that loosely cause I remember liming with my boys back in the day making up soca and using the term warrior....dare him to disprove that...but I digress, how can he put a monetary equivalent to the use of the term? And if so why wasn't Maximus sued for royalties.....isn't that where the fight should have first started.