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Author Topic: Venezuela could leave us in the dust  (Read 21491 times)

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Offline fitzinho

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #90 on: October 13, 2011, 11:30:32 AM »
Didn't they beat Argentina Tuesday?
Yes and Argentina had dey stars too...And man taking offense to us losing to Bermuda

Offline frico

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2011, 11:54:14 AM »
We might have beaten Venezuela in the 60s when the only sport they played was baseball but the minute they latched on to the game of football we couldn't beat them.I know they are on the South American Continent but how far are we away...7 bloody miles,maybe our people not serious enough in achieving the very best.

Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2011, 12:09:20 PM »
We might have beaten Venezuela in the 60s when the only sport they played was baseball but the minute they latched on to the game of football we couldn't beat them.I know they are on the South American Continent but how far are we away...7 bloody miles,maybe our people not serious enough in achieving the very best.

Your proximity to Venezuela is as relevant(irrelevant in this case) as the Bahamas proximity to the United states, Or Guyana's proximity to Brazil (they share a common border) and the rest of the south american continent. Football has much more to do with culture than anything else. Venezuelans naturally have football in their blood as does all other south american countries. To be honest with you, west indians traditionally lean more towards cricket due to the West Indoes cricket team...football has caught on in the caribbean, but its nowhere near as supported in the region as it is in the average south american country (venezuela included)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 12:11:30 PM by Reggaefan »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #93 on: October 13, 2011, 04:33:00 PM »
We might have beaten Venezuela in the 60s when the only sport they played was baseball but the minute they latched on to the game of football we couldn't beat them.I know they are on the South American Continent but how far are we away...7 bloody miles,maybe our people not serious enough in achieving the very best.

We hardly ever played Ven. When Ven sent a team to TT for a goodwill tour in the 71 or 72, it was lower league and college students. They were not expecting TT football to be that competitve. We did not have a pro-league, and the pros were all overseas. Well they got a pretty good shell-lacking from the TT team. They play 3 games and lost by some heavy margins. There was even a fight in one of the games. They invited TT for return games. They then used their pros and beat TT 3-1 and 2-0(check me on the scores). Ven. has had decent teams it just were not good enough to match the other teams in their federation. Plz don't get over your head with Ven. At this moment their team can probly beat us good and proper.

What you, I, we must ask, is why TTFF never saw it in their wisdom to have annual or bi-annual goodwill games with Ven. in the past. We are neighbour, 7 miles apart, we have had no serious issues except the fishing problems. We have blood relations with our neighbor. We have historical and cultural ties with them. Playing them on a yearly basis, one year at home and one year away should be easy, you would think. The trophy for the game can be a cuatro or a pirogue.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #94 on: October 13, 2011, 07:37:55 PM »
I don't know when Ven. was ever behind or on par with TT. We hardly ever play them even though we so close to them. As I have said before, even though baseball is their number sport, that does not make them  irelevant in football. The Venezuelans have had a proleague for over 50 yrs. Mathew Nuness, Alan Joseph and some other played in Ven. in the early 50's. Until TTFF( >:() )organize to play goodwill games on home and away basis, then we will know if we in front, on par or behind. Right now I feel they may be better. They have improved tremendously. I really eh worried about Ven. I concern about their neighbour, Guy.

We hardly ever played Ven. When Ven sent a team to TT for a goodwill tour in the 71 or 72, it was lower league and college students. They were not expecting TT football to be that competitve. We did not have a pro-league, and the pros were all overseas. Well they got a pretty good shell-lacking from the TT team. They play 3 games and lost by some heavy margins. There was even a fight in one of the games. They invited TT for return games. They then used their pros and beat TT 3-1 and 2-0(check me on the scores). Ven. has had decent teams it just were not good enough to match the other teams in their federation. Plz don't get over your head with Ven. At this moment their team can probly beat us good and proper.

...

Although football in Venezuela formally transitioned from amateurism to professionalism in 1957, it would be misleading to characterize the game as a consolidated professional game. There were many challenges and the game in several respects would likely be better characterized as what we would refer to as semi-professional today ... and even that is a negotiable statement.

I would add that the center of this "professional" game resided in expatriate communities such as the Portuguese, the Italians and the Spanish (Basques, Catalans, Galicians etc. segregated their representation and financing of the game along community lines). These were the teams that were dominant. They were not comprised primarily of local players. Local or criollo teams struggled during this period. They didn't have the bank and they didn't have the players.

Based on their connection with their home communities in Spain, expat financiers were at times able to arrange games with clubs from Spain ... and from neighboring countries like Argentina ... but again we should not idealize or interpret this to mean that soccer in Venezuela had achieved mythical proportion. What can be said fairly is that a platform for progressing the game was established based on the European origin of the immigrants. However, it took a significant period for the game to spread and grow across the country beyond the bastions tied to these communities. For almost the first 10 years, the league was all Caracas.

Another factor disruptive of the game's development - despite the artifice of a professional league - was several manifestations of mismanagement at the club level. These are well-documented in Venezuelan football. And, some community teams, while featuring similarly competent players, did not enter the professional set-up for some time (in some cases the denominator would be years/decades). In the midst of all of this, FIFA sanctioned the federation due to internal problems rooted in a power struggle (1973).

Another barometer would be club infrastructure ... youth teams, ownership of stadium and facilities etc. Caracas FC (viewed as well-organized, celebrated its 22 year of re-organization last week ... but even with that ... that occurred due to the 11th hour intervention of a sports fan who feared that the club's financial problems would leave Caracas without representation in the pro league (merely 5 years after it went pro ... a teething problem not unlike our experience with the pro League). And their actual home facility seats less than 4,000.

On this thread, some have magnified the historical credentials of Venezuelan football. The better view is to regard the period from the late 90s onwards as the beginning of viability in Venezuela.

Prior to that they routinely had many problems  ... just like us ... teams withdrawing during the season and other ailments (bankruptcy, relocation of teams that affected logistics etc.).

I don't discount history ... but it is not the conquests of old that account for where they are today. It is their odyssey of growing pains in domestic football (not unlike us). It is the administrative reform of the game (league, national teams) in contemporary times that has sparked the revolution. And dais my point.
They never have been light years ahead of us.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:44:55 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #95 on: October 13, 2011, 08:29:39 PM »
We might have beaten Venezuela in the 60s when the only sport they played was baseball but the minute they latched on to the game of football we couldn't beat them.I know they are on the South American Continent but how far are we away...7 bloody miles,maybe our people not serious enough in achieving the very best.

We hardly ever played Ven. When Ven sent a team to TT for a goodwill tour in the 71 or 72, it was lower league and college students. They were not expecting TT football to be that competitve. We did not have a pro-league, and the pros were all overseas. Well they got a pretty good shell-lacking from the TT team. They play 3 games and lost by some heavy margins. There was even a fight in one of the games. They invited TT for return games. They then used their pros and beat TT 3-1 and 2-0(check me on the scores). Ven. has had decent teams it just were not good enough to match the other teams in their federation. Plz don't get over your head with Ven. At this moment their team can probly beat us good and proper.

What you, I, we must ask, is why TTFF never saw it in their wisdom to have annual or bi-annual goodwill games with Ven. in the past. We are neighbour, 7 miles apart, we have had no serious issues except the fishing problems. We have blood relations with our neighbor. We have historical and cultural ties with them. Playing them on a yearly basis, one year at home and one year away should be easy, you would think. The trophy for the game can be a cuatro or a pirogue.

That is right. This is who we should be playing more. Relying on games from the small islands is also killing our football. We should be focusing on getting matches with Venezuela and even Panama. These teams have done well lately. In fact some are saying that Panama will be contesting the .5 spot in Concacaf.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #96 on: October 13, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »
Playing neighbouring socalled weaker teams is not a problem with me. They are in our zone. We have an obligation to play them. They also want to play  "big" teams like Trini and JA to measure their improvement, like how we want to Brazil, Arg, Eng, etc to measure how far we are. My problem is our fed. with a FIFA VP with the exception of the England game, hardly used his influence to have us play these big teams. It hardly matter that they would have creamed us. We needed these games for preparations and improvement. Jack was good for CFU and Concacaf, but TT football got the shitty end of the stick.

Asylumseeker, real nice info. on Ven. I followed it, but not that deep. I am not saying TT can't beat Ven. We just have to arrange the games to prove it. All we doing is assuming this and that. Forget assumptions and put 22 men on the field and let's see what happens. But they have improved. No doubt about it.

As for Panama, they playing good ball. I hope when we meet them, we are prepared. No ifs, buts, and excuses. Let's hope Otto prepare them for battle.

After the Haiti campaign in 73, Valencia, the Ven. champions 71, came to TT and played in the Oval. They had quite a few Brazilians and I think the TT team won or lost 2-1. I can't remember the accurate score. But that team was knocking the ball real good against us as far as I remembered.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 09:33:10 PM by Deeks »

Offline Observer

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #97 on: October 14, 2011, 06:14:44 AM »
I know its just a discussion, but really it matters little. Why! Because Venezuela is not in our Confederation. Keep an eye on those CONCACAF teams that are making rapid progress.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead
                                              Thomas Paine

Offline kounty

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #98 on: March 24, 2016, 10:08:55 PM »
just take in Venezuela play Peru dey...we would have to bring our A game to beat Venezuela.  Good game for TTFA to organize that shouldn't break the bank.

Offline soccerman

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #99 on: March 24, 2016, 10:34:03 PM »
just take in Venezuela play Peru dey...we would have to bring our A game to beat Venezuela.  Good game for TTFA to organize that shouldn't break the bank.
Peru with the equalizer in stoppage time

Offline loyalist

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #100 on: March 24, 2016, 11:23:09 PM »
What a game this was

Offline Deeks

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #101 on: January 21, 2017, 10:59:10 PM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?

Offline soccerman

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2017, 12:00:01 AM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?
It was a nice game, I agree Malaga Is a fighting team and they have an outstanding goalkeeper but RM has too much talent, they could've easily scored 5...Anyway there are currently 7 Venezlueans in LaLiga they might cut we arse good and proper.

Offline Controversial

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #103 on: January 22, 2017, 12:06:06 AM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?
It was a nice game, I agree Malaga Is a fighting team and they have an outstanding goalkeeper but RMs has too much talent, they could've easily scored 5...Anyway there are currently 7 Venezlueans in LaLiga they might cut we arse good and proper.

If hart was there and he was supported, they would not cut our arse... they would thread carefully in fact

Offline soccerman

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #104 on: January 22, 2017, 12:36:16 AM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?
It was a nice game, I agree Malaga Is a fighting team and they have an outstanding goalkeeper but RMs has too much talent, they could've easily scored 5...Anyway there are currently 7 Venezlueans in LaLiga they might cut we arse good and proper.

If hart was there and he was supported, they would not cut our arse... they would thread carefully in fact
I agree, in fact I will say when Hart was coaching us without interference (Tim Kee era) we would've been capable of doing well. Now we have to find a way to back at playing at a decent level before we look to take on the likes of Venezuela. We looked woeful in our last 4 outings.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:40:14 AM by soccerman »

Offline Controversial

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #105 on: January 22, 2017, 12:41:40 AM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?
It was a nice game, I agree Malaga Is a fighting team and they have an outstanding goalkeeper but RMs has too much talent, they could've easily scored 5...Anyway there are currently 7 Venezlueans in LaLiga they might cut we arse good and proper.

If hart was there and he was supported, they would not cut our arse... they would thread carefully in fact
I agree, in fact I will say when Hart was coaching us without interference (Tim Kee era) we would've been capable of doing well. Now we have to find a way to back at playing at a decent level before we look to take on the likes of Venezuela. We looked woeful in our last 4 outings.

With zero interference we will be fine but is that possible in the toxic environment the dictator has created...

Offline soccerman

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #106 on: January 22, 2017, 01:01:25 AM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?
It was a nice game, I agree Malaga Is a fighting team and they have an outstanding goalkeeper but RMs has too much talent, they could've easily scored 5...Anyway there are currently 7 Venezlueans in LaLiga they might cut we arse good and proper.

If hart was there and he was supported, they would not cut our arse... they would thread carefully in fact
I agree, in fact I will say when Hart was coaching us without interference (Tim Kee era) we would've been capable of doing well. Now we have to find a way to back at playing at a decent level before we look to take on the likes of Venezuela. We looked woeful in our last 4 outings.

With zero interference we will be fine but is that possible in the toxic environment the dictator has created...
No! He needs to step back and allow the coaches and players to do their job on the field and provide them with the resources to do so adequately. No need to call players to find out how practice was or select players and staff on the coach's behalf.

Offline Controversial

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Re: Venezuela could leave us in the dust
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2017, 02:03:10 AM »
Guys, I watching a replay of Malaga v Real. 2-1 to Madrid. CR can't even buy a goal today. The crowd on his case, but still cheering the Madrid team on. Madrid having the better of the game, but Malaga fighting like dogs. They frustrating the hell out of ZiZou. The interesting thing is Malaga has 4 Venezuelans on the starting eleven. So why the hell can't we get a couple cobo sweat against our neighbors just 7 miles away. DJW, Mr. TTFA. What is the problem?
It was a nice game, I agree Malaga Is a fighting team and they have an outstanding goalkeeper but RMs has too much talent, they could've easily scored 5...Anyway there are currently 7 Venezlueans in LaLiga they might cut we arse good and proper.

If hart was there and he was supported, they would not cut our arse... they would thread carefully in fact
I agree, in fact I will say when Hart was coaching us without interference (Tim Kee era) we would've been capable of doing well. Now we have to find a way to back at playing at a decent level before we look to take on the likes of Venezuela. We looked woeful in our last 4 outings.

With zero interference we will be fine but is that possible in the toxic environment the dictator has created...
No! He needs to step back and allow the coaches and players to do their job on the field and provide them with the resources to do so adequately. No need to call players to find out how practice was or select players and staff on the coach's behalf.

There is no guarantee he will not meddle again, his goal is sabotaging our team, so he will find another way, sadly that is the type of individual we are dealing with

 

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