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Author Topic: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes  (Read 24714 times)

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Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2017, 08:24:00 PM »
Can you try and make an argument without using "speculation", "conjecture"..i.e. unrealistic expectations coolade (I'm assuming that's how you spell Kool aid in the UK..).

Regardless, all of those SBs with the exception of MLA were average.. Hence, why I called those performances mediocre. Perhaps we both have different definitions of what mediocre is. In this case I'm using it to mean average, or in the middle. . Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

I won't let someone who can't even spell "Kool aid" tell me that those performances over the weekend were above mediocrity.


When one has little substance to their argument they tend to look for distractions from the real argument like spelling of words, etc. Is how I spelled coolade if I choose to spell it like that of any importance or is understanding what I meant by you drinking Sando's "unrealistic expectations coolade" the important thing?
Talking about unrealistic expectations, were you not the same person who was expecting Darrel Brown to make a come back since 2010 and beat best sprinters in the world provided he has one injury free season?

Anyway I never used any "speculation" or "conjecture" in my actual argument to explain why Alena Brooks, Michelle-Lee Ahye & Semoy Hackett performances in Jamaica were all good and not mediocre as you inaccurately tried to describe them. Instead I used data and stats to back my argument unlike yourself.

According to the Oxford Dictionary the word mediocre means - of only average quality; not very good.

Now how could Alena Brooks SB and PB in the 800m be not very good by her standards when she has never ever run a time of  2:03.09 over 800m before in her career?!

How could Semoy Hackett SB of 22.87 in the 200m not be very good when it is not that far off from her 200m PB of 22.51 and is as fast as some of her best 200m SB times over the last 6 years and moved her to 30th in the 2017 World 200m Rankings?

And you have already confirmed that you think that MLA's SB of 11.06 was a good performance so we don't have to debate about that performance here.

I respectfully submit that your argument is not based on logic, data and stats like mines but rather is based more on your emotions and feelings much like Sando's argument.

I was very specific in my replies and provided facts and stats to show exactly why I view the performances of Alena Brooks, Michelle-Lee Ahye & Semoy Hackett as good performances, Emmanuel Callender's performance as descent and Ayanna Alexander's as disappointing or mediocre.

All you have provided to prove that Brooks PB performance and Hackett SB performance were both mediocre (which means not very good based on the Oxford dictionary definition) are empty words based purely on your feelings very much like Sando also did and not any facts and stats to add substance to your argument.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 07:01:40 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2017, 09:06:07 AM »
So I must provide logic and stats to back up my claim that the performances at the JA invite was mediocre? I dont need to do so. The times and placings  speak for themselves. I'm sure Hackett and Callender were not as thrilled or as pleased as you are with their own performances. And I'm sure Ato would not applaud the performances like you are doing..

I respect your contribution on here Socapro. But there is no way in hell that you're going to convince me that those performances were above mediocrity.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2017, 10:26:43 PM »
So I must provide logic and stats to back up my claim that the performances at the JA invite was mediocre? I dont need to do so. The times and placings  speak for themselves. I'm sure Hackett and Callender were not as thrilled or as pleased as you are with their own performances. And I'm sure Ato would not applaud the performances like you are doing..

I respect your contribution on here Socapro. But there is no way in hell that you're going to convince me that those performances were above mediocrity.


To summarise once again I would describe the performances of Alena Brooks, Michelle-Lee Ahye & Semoy Hackett as good performances, Emmanuel Callender's performance as decent and Ayanna Alexander's as disappointing or mediocre.

I notice you are no longer trying to claim that Alena Brooks 800m PB performance was mediocre meaning not very good so at least you have made some progress there with facing reality.

So you have switched attention to just Hackett and Callender saying that you are sure they were both not as thrilled or as pleased as I am with their performances.

Did you hear me say anywhere that I am thrilled and pleased with their performances and did you interview both athletes after their races or hear interviews to find out whether or not they were happy or unhappy with their performance?

In case your memory is short I did say in my summary that Hackett's performance was good and Callender's performance was decent. If you want to equate that to me saying I was thrilled and pleased with both their performances then I believe that is down to your imagination and your misinterpretation of my summary.

I believe if you weren't so full of false pride you would already have admitted both athletes performances (Hackett and Callender) were by no stretch mediocre (meaning not very good) and that my less emotional summary is a much fairer assessment of both athletes performances based upon their PB's.

Your insistence that their performances were both mediocre now seems to be more based upon your ego and emotions while my summary is based upon the reality of stats and data like their PB's and SB's and them moving up the 2017 world rankings or not.

But thanks for proving to me that you fall into the same category as Sando where accurately assessing the performances of our T&T athletes based upon their PB's, SB's and moving up the world rankings is concerned.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 10:43:07 PM by Socapro »
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Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2017, 08:10:12 AM »
Still mediocre performances. Regardless how you try to spin it. . Sorry but I don't have time to write a long response to something that proves itself. I have a life outside of this forum.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2017, 08:40:16 AM »
Still mediocre performances. Regardless how you try to spin it. . Sorry but I don't have time to write a long response to something that proves itself. I have a life outside of this forum.

That is simply your opinion that is not based on facts and stats but rather purely on your ego and emotions.

The only mediocre performance from our T&T athletes at the Jamaica International Invitational was that of Ayanna Alexander just as I pointed out and none of us know for sure that she did not pick up an injury during her event which could have affected her performance as there is no video of her event.

My summary of our T&T athletes performances is much more accurate and realistic than yours where you try to paint everyone with the same brush which is not only unfair but is based mostly on your ego and emotions and not on their PB's and SB's.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 08:49:39 AM by Socapro »
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Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2017, 12:05:46 PM »
Still mediocre results

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2017, 02:58:24 PM »
Still mediocre results

Still your opinion that is not based in reality as anyone can yap and talk without analysing things properly just like you and Sando seem to have perfected doing.

The only mediocre result in JA was Ayanna Alexander's based on her PB and SB. However the other T&T athletes performances were clearly not mediocre based on their SB's & PB's and any intelligent person who is not allowing their ego to blind them would already have admit such.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:03:57 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »
Still mediocre results

Still your opinion that is not based in reality as anyone can yap and talk without analysing things properly just like you and Sando seem to have perfected doing.

The only mediocre result in JA was Ayanna Alexander's based on her PB and SB. However the other T&T athletes performances were clearly not mediocre based on their SB's & PB's and any intelligent person who is not allowing their ego to blind them would already have admit such.

Okay.. I analyzed the facts. My conclusion, still mediocre results.

Sando, find a child in grade 2 and ask him or her to spell Kool aid. I'll send you $100 if they get it wrong. .

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2017, 07:40:26 AM »
Still mediocre results

Still your opinion that is not based in reality as anyone can yap and talk without analysing things properly just like you and Sando seem to have perfected doing.

The only mediocre result in JA was Ayanna Alexander's based on her PB and SB. However the other T&T athletes performances were clearly not mediocre based on their SB's & PB's and any intelligent person who is not allowing their ego to blind them would already have admit such.
Okay.. I analyzed the facts. My conclusion, still mediocre results.

If you did analyze the facts and stats that I took the trouble of providing you would not still be making the same ignorant sweeping conclusion about all the T&T athletes having mediocre performances which simply exposes the fact that you did not do any analyst in the first place but rather based your conclusion on emotions.

Once I provided the data and stats, what you have been doing since is to show you have too much of an ego to admit that you got it wrong in making such a sweeping conclusion about our athletes performances.

Once again below is the only conclusion you will be forced to come to if you logically take into account each T&T athletes SB and PB and whether or not their performance in Jamaica moved them up the IAAF World Top Lists for 2017:-

Alena Brooks, Michelle-Lee Ahye & Semoy Hackett each had good performances;
Emmanuel Callender had a decent (aka not good or bad) performance;
Ayanna Alexander's was the only one with a mediocre (aka not very good) performance.


Brooks, Ahye & Hackett all gave SB's performances which moved them all up the 2017 IAAF World Top Lists so we can only logically rate their performances as good. One of them Brooks even ran a PB in the 800m;

Callender's performance was not a SB performance but neither was it a mediocre performance as all the sprinters ahead of him in that 100m have sub-10 PB's while Callender's 100m PB is 10.04 ran back in 2009. In addition he was by miles the oldest athete in the line-up and is more of a 200m specialist;

Alexander's performance was way short of both her SB and PB and she was beaten by triple jumpers with shorter PB's than herself hence it is fair to describe her performance as mediocre which I agreed about from the very beginning of this discussion.

Your childish attempt to distract from the real argument and that you were making a sweeping summary that is unfair on all but one of the five T&T athletes who competed in Jamaica will not work here.

If/when you eventually grow up you will be able to admit that you got it wrong on this occasion due to initially basing your conclusion on your emotions but it seems since then your ego has kicked-in and is not allowing you to admit that you got it wrong by making such a sweeping conclusion about all our athletes performances.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 08:07:37 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2017, 08:10:09 AM »
Okay.. I grew up now. My analysis. Still mediocre results.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2017, 08:56:09 AM »
Okay.. I grew up now. My analysis. Still mediocre results.

No you haven't grown up as you obvioulsy haven't made any adult analysis in drawing your conclusion.
You are still ego tripping as you can't bring yourself to admit that you obviously got it wrong in regards to your sweeping summary of the performances of our five T&T athletes who competed in JA.

All you have proven is that your have a tendency to allow your ego to overide your ability to think logically and to anaylse our athletes performances based upon their PB's and SB's and the quality of their competition.

I am not surprised by your off the mark assessment of our athletes here as you are the same person who had been expecting Darrel Brown to make a come back since 2010 and to beat the best sprinters in the world provided he has one injury free season.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 09:32:05 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2017, 09:22:12 AM »
Any tips for helping me grow up?

Btw.. Still mediocre results

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2017, 09:33:18 AM »
Any tips for helping me grow up?

Btw.. Still mediocre results

Nope it is obvious that you will never grow up and you have lost the respect I once had for you as a logical thinker.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2017, 11:00:37 AM »
I understand Soca. I still have respect for you. .

Still mediocre results.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2017, 11:39:43 AM »
I understand Soca. I still have respect for you. .

Still mediocre results.

Its revealing to see how persistent you are with unfairly trying to discredit good performances from some of our T&T athletes because your ego is more important to you that being fair and logical in assessing their performances.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 11:52:50 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Aviator

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2017, 11:56:48 AM »
LMAO at all this conversation.

MLA aside, compared to their PB's, yes you can call their results good, but in comparison to the world (which is what ultimately matters), those results are MEDIOCRE!
Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2017, 12:05:33 PM »
LMAO at all this conversation.

MLA aside, compared to their PB's, yes you can call their results good, but in comparison to the world (which is what ultimately matters), those results are MEDIOCRE!

The assessment I used was in comparison with our athletes SB's and PB's and not necessarily compared with the best performances in the world.

Here is my fair summary of our T&T athletes performances based upon their SB's and PB's and whether or not their performance in Jamaica moved them up the IAAF World Top Lists for 2017:-

Alena Brooks, Michelle-Lee Ahye & Semoy Hackett each had good performances;
Emmanuel Callender had a decent (aka not good or bad) performance;
Ayanna Alexander's was the only one with a mediocre (aka not very good) performance.


Note I only rated 3 of them as having good performances, one as decent and one as mediocre.
Brooks, Ahye & Hackett all gave SB's performances which moved them up the 2017 IAAF World Top Lists so we can only logically rate their performances as good and Brooks actually ran a new PB in the 800m.

This discussion only started because someone tried to brand all five T&T athletes performances as mediocre which is an unfair generalisation done without analysing their PB's and SB's.
Placing in top 3 isn't always the only mark of a good performance and not placing in the top 3 isn't always the mark of a mediocre performance.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 01:52:01 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #77 on: May 26, 2017, 02:17:52 PM »
Thanks Aviator.

I did clarify which results were somewhat okay. But somehow my opinion amounted to me being illogical, unpatriotic and childish in the eyes of Socapro.

Yes I called Socapro out for spelling Kool aid wrong, but I was just having fun. No offense Socapro.

Finally, I still stand by my opinion.. those results were mediocre.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2017, 02:48:54 PM »
Thanks Aviator.

I did clarify which results were somewhat okay. But somehow my opinion amounted to me being illogical, unpatriotic and childish in the eyes of Socapro.

Yes I called Socapro out for spelling Kool aid wrong, but I was just having fun. No offense Socapro.

Finally, I still stand by my opinion.. those results were mediocre.

Stop generalising, just one of the results was mediocre if we are fair.

I explained to Aviator that my summary is in comparison to our athletes own SB's & PB's and is not in comparison to the world best performances.

Lets try to be fairer to our T&T athletes as they sometimes read this website or at least they used to.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 02:50:30 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Aviator

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2017, 07:29:54 PM »
Socapro, if you are using the athletes PB's as your benchmark for comparison on their level of performance, let's just agree to disagree from now. The world is my only measuring stick when dealing with pros.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 07:34:33 PM by Aviator »
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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Offline Aviator

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2017, 07:34:07 PM »
In brighter news, we have our first wind legal sub-20 run in almost.... Well, 20 years.

Event   Heat   Wind   Status
Men 200 M (Quarterfinals)   3|3   +0.2   Under review
Saturday 7:50 PM         

Record   Name      Date
   College Best   Walter Dix - Florida State   19.69   5/26/2007

Results: Men 200 M (Quarterfinals)
12 Advance: Top 3 from each Quarterfinal plus next best 3 times to Eugene

Pl   Ln      Athlete      Affiliation   Time
1   6      Jereem RICHARDS   JR   Alabama   19.97 :beermug: :beermug:
2   4      Kendal WILLIAMS   SO   Georgia   20.38 Q
3   7      Nick GRAY   SO   Ohio State   20.38 Q
4   9      David WINTERS JR   SR   South Carolina   20.53
5   3      Hanoj CARTER   SR   UL-Lafayette   20.75
6   2      Ryan CLARK   SO   Florida   20.97
DQ   8      Davon DEMOSS   SO   Memphis   -
DNS   5      Julius MORRIS   JR   Western Kentucky   -
Video link :
https://youtu.be/0XN533cQ9MQ
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 07:42:39 PM by Aviator »
Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Offline Trini1

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2017, 07:40:32 PM »
 :beermug:!!!!! Congrats Mr Richards keep pushing through.

Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2017, 07:41:36 PM »
@ Aviator . . Now that is a result to take our hats off for. Right now he is looking very bright. Glad he is focusing on the 200m.

On another note. MLA ran 10.97 to finish 3rd at Prefontaine. Morolake 1st. 10.94. Ahoure 2nd. Wind  +2.1. So not legal.


Queen Elaine 3rd lost the 200m. Still ran sub 22. Torie and Miller-Uibo 1st and 2nd.

Offline Deeks

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2017, 10:55:49 PM »
Wow! Congrats to Jareem

Offline Trini1

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2017, 05:39:11 AM »
MLA pretty solid for having come off surgery earlier in the year/late last year.

Elaine still favourite even though she has been running everywhere I think franno may have had something to do with this loss. Her first 100 was extremely flat, held back a lot then brought it on the straight. Similar to Doha.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 05:42:04 AM by Trini1 »

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2017, 06:55:04 AM »
What's the history on Jereem?  Good prospect indeed  :beermug:
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Offline gawd on pitch

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2017, 08:29:01 AM »
What's the history on Jereem?  Good prospect indeed  :beermug:

He won a few Carifta medals on the 4x400 teams. Most of his medals have come from running in relays. Both 4x100 and 4x400. Won an individual medal 200 at CAC junior games years ago. His most precious medal came while running as a junior for our senior mens 4x400 indoor team at the World indoor champs in 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jereem_Richards

Offline ffisback

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2017, 01:04:49 PM »
J Richards will probably make it to the WC finals but he would not be a medal contender he is the only Trinidadian to make the time for the 200 or the 400 for the WC.

D Williams became T&T 1st female 400m runner to qualify for a WC or a Olympics she would probably break the NR this year.

R Walters also qualify for the WC in the 110m hurdles.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2017, 01:20:19 PM »
J Richards will probably make it to the WC finals but he would not be a medal contender he is the only Trinidadian to make the time for the 200 or the 400 for the WC.

D Williams became T&T 1st female 400m runner to qualify for a WC or a Olympics she would probably break the NR this year.

R Walters also qualify for the WC in the 110m hurdles.

All those T&T athletes (Jereen Richards, Domonique Williams & Ruebin Walters who each ran a new PB this weekend) don't officially qualify for the World Championships in London unless/until they take part in the Senior Open Champs in T&T at the end of June and win or place in the top 3 in the final of their event.

But well done to all those T&T athletes for good performances this weekend and all moving up the 2017 IAAF World Top Lists in their events. Senior Open Champs in T&T at the end of June should be entertaining.

It will be interesting to see if Aleena Brooks who recently ran a new PB of 2:03.09 in the 800m can attain the 2017 IAAF World Championships Qualifying Standard of 2:01.00 for Women 800m. Brooks needs to shave 2.09 seconds off of her new 800m PB to achieve the 2017 IAAF World Championships Qualifying Standard for Women 800m and that time would also move her up into the top 20 in the IAAF Top List at 800m for 2017.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 01:42:21 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline ffisback

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Re: 2017 Outdoor Results for T&T Athletes
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2017, 05:16:28 PM »
J Richards will probably make it to the WC finals but he would not be a medal contender he is the only Trinidadian to make the time for the 200 or the 400 for the WC.

D Williams became T&T 1st female 400m runner to qualify for a WC or a Olympics she would probably break the NR this year.

R Walters also qualify for the WC in the 110m hurdles.

All those T&T athletes (Jereen Richards, Domonique Williams & Ruebin Walters who each ran a new PB this weekend) don't officially qualify for the World Championships in London unless/until they take part in the Senior Open Champs in T&T at the end of June and win or place in the top 3 in the final of their event.

But well done to all those T&T athletes for good performances this weekend and all moving up the 2017 IAAF World Top Lists in their events. Senior Open Champs in T&T at the end of June should be entertaining.

It will be interesting to see if Aleena Brooks who recently ran a new PB of 2:03.09 in the 800m can attain the 2017 IAAF World Championships Qualifying Standard of 2:01.00 for Women 800m. Brooks needs to shave 2.09 seconds off of her new 800m PB to achieve the 2017 IAAF World Championships Qualifying Standard for Women 800m and that time would also move her up into the top 20 in the IAAF Top List at 800m for 2017.
It will be a long shot for A Brooks to run 2:01.00 that's a big jump.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 05:37:55 PM by Socapro »