Yasin Abu Bakr Thread

[pull stones]

R45 you are being disingenuous once again and fail to capture the gist of the argument. this is not about UNC or PNM it's about incompetence and bad behavior in government. why are you so willing to give these people a pass, could it be that you have interest in the government? i get the feeling that you are a UNC apologist, and to what avail? on the issue of john O'holleran, the prime minister and his cabinet had nothing to do with that. this crook took 3 billion and ran off, how could that be the misgivings of a whole government? on the very same note we were a very young country then and in the infancy of nationhood and was trying to find our legs, but now we are 50 years on our own and a 40 year old republic. this sort of misgivings is far less forgivable now than then and especially after spending 400 billion with very little to show for it.

look i am not going to stay here in a prolong discussion about muslims in trinidad. i have nothing to gain thereby simply because i am an agnostic and don't actually care for religious debates especially on whom is more legit than whom to be called faithful followers or deviators. my point was that persad bissessar was in bed with the jammat at one time or another and decided when she was elected that it wasn't a good idea anymore and decided to distance her self, and continued to use the jammat as a scapegoat in her ploy to frighten the public into a frenzy in an attempt to get around the legal process. i couldn't care less if abu bakar was a jesuit priest masquerading as a grand imam. whatever his previous actions were with former prime ministers my point is that the constitution and the legal process of lawful governance was dragged through the dirt by the prime minister and the fact that she is willing to do anything to stay afloat without considering the consequence that could fall on the nation is quite worrisome.

and don't be so quick to condemn abu bakar and his army. i remember clearly that were quite a few muslims involved in the drug trade and very prominent ASJA members both in el seccoro and aranguez. and to some extent there are many muslims who involve themselves in bid rigging, money laundering, selling alcohol which is a big no no in that particular religion, muslims were also involved in human trafficking, kidnapping of their rivals and all manner of illicit gain yet you have failed to mention that, there is a word for that sort of convenient thinking, i believe it starts with the letter H. in my opinion they are both six of one and half a dozen of the other with both sides having well intentioned devotes and miscreants. yes there are bad apples in the jammat but there are also good people who try to hold fast to the islamic tenents and here you are pulling them down only because they don't belong to your group. human nature is incredibly volatile and whatever they are into is always the right path, go figure.

[R45]

R45 you are being disingenuous once again and fail to capture the gist of the argument. this is not about UNC or PNM it's about incompetence and bad behavior in government. why are you so willing to give these people a pass, could it be that you have interest in the government? i get the feeling that you are a UNC apologist, and to what avail? on the issue of john O'holleran, the prime minister and his cabinet had nothing to do with that. this crook took 3 billion and ran off, how could that be the misgivings of a whole government? on the very same note we were a very young country then and in the infancy of nationhood and was trying to find our legs, but now we are 50 years on our own and a 40 year old republic. this sort of misgivings is far less forgivable now than then and especially after spending 400 billion with very little to show for it.

Nah I'm definitely not an apologist, and I have no interest in the current one. I do see why you might think that from my tone, but I assure you I am not. I just am getting tired of the whole Kamla is the worst shit that's getting posted everywhere. Frankly I think this government is bad, but I'm not convinced that they're any worse than the ones we had before. I think there are similarities in what you're saying re: O'holleran and the current gov't. I think some of the ministers around Kamla (ala "Cabal") are definitely toxic and crooks, but probably not all of them. Same for when Manning was in power. I didn't like Manning personally, but honestly thought he had the best interests in mind despite being misguided and having too many grandiose ideas. That said, there were real crooks in his administration as well. Same for Panday, who allowed his financiers and certain people in his cabinet to run amok with the treasury. I think Eric Williams was an incredibly smart man, but he was too power hungry and racially divisive.

I see no difference really between then and now. I don't really buy the we are an older nation now argument though.

look i am not going to stay here in a prolong discussion about muslims in trinidad. i have nothing to gain thereby simply because i am an agnostic and don't actually care for religious debates especially on whom is more legit than whom to be called faithful followers or deviators. my point was that persad bissessar was in bed with the jammat at one time or another and decided when she was elected that it wasn't a good idea anymore and decided to distance her self, and continued to use the jammat as a scapegoat in her ploy to frighten the public into a frenzy in an attempt to get around the legal process. i couldn't care less if abu bakar was a jesuit priest masquerading as a grand imam. whatever his previous actions were with former prime ministers my point is that the constitution and the legal process of lawful governance was dragged through the dirt by the prime minister and the fact that she is willing to do anything to stay afloat without considering the consequence that could fall on the nation is quite worrisome.

I agree with you. But I do think the actions of the prior administrations is relevant within the context that we want to vote the PP out... but to vote back in a party that did the EXACT same thing. What are we really expecting to accomplish?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is madness.

You should read some of the Wikileaks cables between the US Embassy and the State Dept. There are several published around the time of the JFK Terror Plot. At that time, the assessment of the State Dept was that Manning / Martin Joseph were eager hoping that the Jamaat was associated so that they could find a way to extradite Bakr. This was right after using them to get elected. Again, I think this is relevant if we are planning to just bring back the PNM - it shouldn't be done on the pretense of putting an end to using the Jamaat.

and don't be so quick to condemn abu bakar and his army. i remember clearly that were quite a few muslims involved in the drug trade and very prominent ASJA members both in el seccoro and aranguez. and to some extent there are many muslims who involve themselves in bid rigging, money laundering, selling alcohol which is a big no no in that particular religion, muslims were also involved in human trafficking, kidnapping of their rivals and all manner of illicit gain yet you have failed to mention that, there is a word for that sort of convenient thinking, i believe it starts with the letter H. in my opinion they are both six of one and half a dozen of the other with both sides having well intentioned devotes and miscreants. yes there are bad apples in the jammat but there are also good people who try to hold fast to the islamic tenents and here you are pulling them down only because they don't belong to your group. human nature is incredibly volatile and whatever they are into is always the right path, go figure.

I have nothing on the Jamaat because of religion. As I said, it's a non-religious thing. Crime is Trinidad is perpetrated by people of all faiths. I don't like the Jamaat because of 1990 and subsequent events. I don't solely blame them because both the PNM/UNC continue to empower them with State money when either are in power and interchangeably use them to win elections. That said I don't think they are the biggest threat to T&T. In my opinion the biggest threat to T&T are the drug cartels that are running our country and corrupting almost every level of government, justice, and the protective services. I also don't think the people at the top of those organizations are living in Laventille or east Port of Spain. Neither the PNM or UNC have ever made any tangible promises to address that, and I really wish the nation's outrage was directed at that rather then all these smoke signals both parties keep throwing at us.

[Flex]

Bakr: Muslimeen poses no threat
By Ryan Hamilton-Davis (Newsday)

THE JAMAAT al Muslimeen - the organisation at the centre of the police Special Branch caution to its field sections on activities inimical to the State - has said that it poses no threat to the country.

“_ ere is no threat to the population of Trinidad and Tobago by the Jamaat Al Muslimeen,” the organisation’s leader, Yasin Abu Bakr, said in a statement issued yesterday.

_ e leaked Special Branch document alleged that the Muslimeen had intentions of moving arms and ammunition to North and San Fernando, and to attack police stations, the Prime Minister’s private residence, and even attempt to free persons charged in the murder of Senior Counsel Dana Seetahal, and on trial for the murder of businesswoman Vindra Naipaul Coolman.

Acting Police Commissioner Stephen Williams while confirming that the document did emanate from the Special Branch, said the information was not verified and had no supporting evidence. He did indicate that the information was received by the Special Branch and was sent out to field sections.

But in a release responding to the leaked document, Abu Bakr assured the Muslimeen means the nation no harm.

“Our issues are being dealt with legally,” the release said, “there appears to be persons spreading rumours with a view to causing mischief to destabilise the country.” Bakr’s son, Fuad, expressed disappointment in the way things are being handled in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service (TTPS). He said sensationalism and poor policies are driving the nation’s citizens to panic.

“The sentiment in the Muslim community is that we are being discriminated against,” said the younger Bakr, “the anniversary of the 1990 coup passed peacefully, despite the rumours.

A number of other days where persons said that there would be unrest passed peacefully with the exception of last Friday’s prison break. the sensationalisation, sometimes by the media and even the way the instances are being handled by the police, is causing a lot of panic in Trinidad and Tobago.” Bakr’s statement called on the police to confirm the authenticity of the memo, and said the Muslimeen received unconfirmed reports that it did not come from the TTPS.

In a press conference late yesterday afternoon, Williams cofirmed the memo did in fact originate from the Special Branch.

The Commissioner added that investigations had been made into the rumours, but there has since been no information to support the claims.

Hearing that the memo, while real, had no intelligence to prove its veracity, Fuad expressed further disappointment.

“Well, it was very poorly written,” he quipped, referring to spelling and grammatically errors in the memo. “And it was unprofessional that something like this could have been leaked. _ e TTPS is supposed to protect and serve its citizens, and make them feel safe.

What the police has done by letting this out has in effect made persons more frightened.

It feels like we are better of with the thieves.”

[pull stones]

R45 now that we have this solved lets touch on one thing that i particularly take issue with and that is eric williams having a racist agenda. let me start by saying that i know very little of the man and could only regurgitate second hand information handed down by a grandfather who basically went to school with the man. in my house williams was revered as a demigod. there were pictures of him on the wall talks at the dinner table about his many "wonderful" policies and so on. now let it be known that i am from a very diverse family with a multiplicity of cultures intertwined in one, i am what you call a true calaloo. williams himself could also be seen in the same light as being a man intertwined in many cultures of black indian french creole and chinese.

my grand father would be the first to say that williams was responsible for the stability that trinidad and tobago has enjoyed for the better part of it's fifty years with bigger nations like jamaica guyana haiti cuba and to some extent antigua not enjoying the stability that trinidad and tobago has. he attributes this to williams foresight and economic genius, and maybe this is true and maybe it isn't, but one thing i have noticed about williams from his books that i have read is that he seemed to be very much inclusive of all culture and provided the tools to all trinidadians to excel regardless of creed race and religion which included giving development loans to farmers in the rural areas to boost agriculture production. this does not sound like a man with an axe to grind, and if i was fooled by the little man then i guess he was indeed the best of spin doctors and should be applauded for his shrewd cunning insidious wiles.

[Deeks]

For those who said Eric was divisive, need to look at TT at the time. TT was a racially divided country long before we became independent. But there was always interracial relationships, marriages,cohabitations, whatever. Also the physical smallness of TT or Trinidad in a way has always "forced" the people to "mix".  Afros had their idea of what TT should be, while Indos had their ideas of what it should. In the middle where the whites, Portuguese, Spanish, French Creoles, Chinese and Syrians,etc with their own ideas also. So with these competing interests, which are still present today, you  all see why the politic nature is still the same as pre 1962.

Eric made some some statements that Indos have said shows he is a racist. The recalcitrant minority. I once asked my history teacher in QRC, Augustus Ramrikasingh to clarify that statement. He said that when there was election to form the WI Federation, Edward Seaga and his party and Capildeo and the DLP were against the idea. Capildeo felt Trini Indos would be at a disadvantage in an heavily populated Afro Caribbean Union. Seaga felt that JA would have the heavy burden of financing the smaller islands. Eric referred to them as the recalcitrant minority, but the referendum had succeeded for federation. The other time was a statement he made about some of the Hindu schools being cow shed. The fact that the physical structures of the schools were in an utter dilapidated state. Hence in the 60s there was a big push to build secondary schools all over the country. Also this formed the impetus for the concordat with all the religious schools.

I can say for a fact that during Eric and PNM rule, Afros and Indos have been cordial to each other. There have been many individual conflicts, but I have never seen Afros and Indos faced each other in street or villages battles. Prove me wrong. The conflicts have been industrial, union against government. And most unions have cross racial lines. Are Indos targeted for robberies, because of their wealth, I would say yes. So are other people. People in the "ghetto" does even get rob for they crix biscuit. Right now the Afro population in TT is in total destruction. 90 % of the homocide in TT is Afro. And is mostly Afro against Afro. This affects the entire country psychologically. So if this country is so racially divided, why are Afros devouring their own at such an alarming rate?

[Sando prince]

^^ Deeks boy that was one of your best comments in here.

[Sando prince]

Imam Yasin Abu Bakr in the Emancipation Day Parade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJSqBUSt6Xk

[R45]

I can say for a fact that during Eric and PNM rule, Afros and Indos have been cordial to each other. There have been many individual conflicts, but I have never seen Afros and Indos faced each other in street or villages battles. Prove me wrong. The conflicts have been industrial, union against government. And most unions have cross racial lines. Are Indos targeted for robberies, because of their wealth, I would say yes. So are other people. People in the "ghetto" does even get rob for they crix biscuit. Right now the Afro population in TT is in total destruction. 90 % of the homocide in TT is Afro. And is mostly Afro against Afro. This affects the entire country psychologically. So if this country is so racially divided, why are Afros devouring their own at such an alarming rate?

Actually I said Eric Williams was racially divisive, not racist - he utilized a divide-and-conquer style politics to whip up PNM support. Our politics were racist pre-independence and hasn't changed since. That's always been different from the melting pot our society is, but politically the lines are very clear.

And I want to be clear and say I don't think he was a net negative for the country, but he had many flaws like all of the leaders we have had since.

[Sando prince]

On Dr Eric Williams worse day the supreme intellectual was still a better leader and visionary than the one we have in office today.

[kaliman2006]

The Jamaat is going to be telling its side of the story about the 27th of July, 1990 from 4-7pm today at Woodford Square. WACK Radio (90.1) will be broadcasting the event live.

http://www.looptt.com/content/jamaat-al-muslimeen-host-public-meeting-pos-today

[Sando prince]

Yesterday July 27th was 28 years since Abu rise to attempted coup fame

https://www.facebook.com/SocaTv/posts/2013813978693453