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Author Topic: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.  (Read 5515 times)

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Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2017, 03:38:43 PM »
You mean at a national level for your players to go to under 20 WC etc?

It's not good. Remember those other countries have clubs etc that developing their next generation of players so the cream will rise to the top and the national team will have a capable pool of players to choose from. It's different for us. These tournaments such as fifa u17 and u20 represent the only real competition that our youth face and it's for a really brief time if they just play 3 group games etc. The level of competition that they need to be exposed to just doesn't exist in our region. It would be ok if we have 20 levi garcias to choose from but that isn't our reality. other countries have 60 levi garcias to choose from. They have excess players at that level. Clubs releasing academy/u23 players every season.

Asylum, remember our motives for those tournaments are different. Those tournaments represent a scouting opportunity for our players to get a look at a club in Europe etc. For the other countries, most of their players already settled at a club and this just allows for added competition experience for the player. It basically boost the cv.

We more need these tournaments to test our players and also validate our methods. In the long run, I don't think our attendence at these tournaments play a significant role in our national team development. You still going to have to find somewhere for these u17 and u20 players to play 30+ games a season in a competitive environment before we can even think about national team selection in the future.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2017, 04:33:49 PM »
I am referring to the absence of "elite football" for U-20 players in T&T. Not referring to one-off tournaments.

Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2017, 05:18:27 PM »
We will always find it difficult to provide elite football for u20 footballers in trinidad. Remember the better players would try to migrate as quickly as possible whether that is to a pro league or college for scholarship. I don't think it's something that we can change to be honest. If they are good at that age then they simply end up playing for a pro league team etc.

This is a good model to follow here https://www.premierleague.com/news/58764 but even the players here are not guranteed a space on their first team. Players playing here could easily be playing in conference in 2 years time. That's the reality of the game today.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2017, 06:23:47 PM »
One of the inherent problems is that U-20 players with NT experience struggle to get consistent playing time at some clubs. This year some players jumped ship for more "prestige clubs" and then bounced dey head and jumped back. Some players jump ship for an extra $500 TT (or merely the promise thereof, given the current financial environment). Others would have been further along in their development had they earlier in their careers played more football instead of sitting on the bench.

Not only do I think the situation can be changed, I also think it must change. We have to rewire. We are ill-equipped to compete otherwise. For one, you would be surprised who would sink and who would swim, if we didn't pick winners and allow development to occur organically.

Incidentally, I'll be at a few PL 2 matches mid to late September. Will tell you my thoughts following that.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2017, 06:17:34 PM »
We will always find it difficult to provide elite football for u20 footballers in trinidad. Remember the better players would try to migrate as quickly as possible whether that is to a pro league or college for scholarship. I don't think it's something that we can change to be honest. If they are good at that age then they simply end up playing for a pro league team etc.

This is a good model to follow here https://www.premierleague.com/news/58764 but even the players here are not guranteed a space on their first team. Players playing here could easily be playing in conference in 2 years time. That's the reality of the game today.


Right and I don't blame them. The better players know they can only get even better by playing in more developed and more competitive leagues outside TnT so they have no choice but to want to leave TnT. Pro league is not going to develop your talent, unlike Mexican and South American players who can stay in their domestic leagues and still develop..
.

Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 10:22:19 AM »
This coach suppose to be a big coach from Everton ..the quality of the passes no better than school boy football..
The type of runs ..one dimension..
The tactics ..no different from school boy football
disgruntled armchair trini coaches are the absolute worst fans i have ever encountered in all my years of following sports. sometimes I can't help but think that you actually want the team to do bad so you could have the opportunity to disgustingly bash the coach and the players in the most demoralizing fashion.

with all your silly babbling and nagative assinine comments about the coaches, have you ever stopped to think that these past coaches the like of Steve hart francisco maturana Otto fisher and presently Dennis lawrence actually make these players perform Obove and beyond their capacity given the fact that they came through a shabby local coaching system and an equally dirt poor make shift local league?

in case you haven't noticed our federation is operating and has been operating on fumes and are at the point  where they could hardly pay the players and coaching staff let alone make long term plans to improve the standard of football in this country. have you ever considered that our local private business sector does very little or nothing to support football in TT not even out of the perimeters of the ttfa? for example encourage and help to build private training camps or academies where the game could be taught correctly and efficiently in a professional environment?

we have been doing everything haphazardly and lobsided from the inception and expect positive results and that's madness taking into consideration We were doomed to fail from the onset. as it stands we have no standards for sports in TT and everything is done on the basis of hit or miss. there's no long term planning no future projection no sustainable investment, what else do you expect buster?

I think you and the bastards of your ilk should be happy with the way thing are because for what we put in, we are overachieving and the only victims I see here are the coaching staff who have to wait months to get paid and the lads who go out there and compete with their hearts but lack the basic training that would allowed them to compete far more efficiently. you should be ashamed of yourself putting the blame on all the wrong people, instead you should focus your attention where the blame truly belong, but considering whom I'm addressing, that might be wishful thinking on my part.

@ Pull Stones:  Sorry...but I have to fully agree with coache.  He aired the sentiments that I've been voicing for more than 20+ years now regarding T&T football.  The players still generally play 'Intercol school-boy' football at the international level. 

And the excuse about funding and administration and all that drama, although may be true to a certain extent, doesn't really explain the general poor play and poor decision making on the field by the players; especially when T&T struggles with the likes of poor destitute countries like Haiti, Jamaica, HONDURAS, Guatemala, and Costa Rica etc.  The players a blessed with talent; but they lack football IQ, I realize.

 
The dumbest people on earth are generally located in comment sections of websites all over the world.

Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 05:55:01 PM »
This is why our next focus should be qualifying and competing in the Olympics. We can't for the next round to wc qualification to start to reinvent the wheel again...That is just too far....Time we get prospective players together to begin preparation for Olympics 2020

Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2017, 06:03:34 PM »
Oh and btw.....everybody is a "coach" in in tnt but do we really know if anyone of them is actually good. Where have they been tested? Have they been in demand outside etc. Just having the badges and going through the motions doesn't mean that they actually know what they doing. Is time we separate wolf from sheep. Time we start putting the right people in the correct positions. We keep recycling the same bs and expecting different results...Madness

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2017, 02:30:45 PM »
One of the inherent problems is that U-20 players with NT experience struggle to get consistent playing time at some clubs. This year some players jumped ship for more "prestige clubs" and then bounced dey head and jumped back. Some players jump ship for an extra $500 TT (or merely the promise thereof, given the current financial environment). Others would have been further along in their development had they earlier in their careers played more football instead of sitting on the bench.

Not only do I think the situation can be changed, I also think it must change. We have to rewire. We are ill-equipped to compete otherwise. For one, you would be surprised who would sink and who would swim, if we didn't pick winners and allow development to occur organically.

Incidentally, I'll be at a few PL 2 matches mid to late September. Will tell you my thoughts following that.

So congo ... On Monday I made the trek to observe Everton "host" Arsenal. Arsenal got spanked. Not comprehensively, but a mix of opportunistic and better overall moments. Total # of goals in the match = 6. General quality of the match? Not high. Neither team would be recognised as an accomplished variant of its club's First Team. In fact, Arsenal were particularly poor. Perhaps a mitigating factor for Arsenal was that six of its players in the category were away on First Team duty (pointed out to me by a member of the technical staff), so some younger players were in the mix ... but even with that, one would have expected more from some of the names on record.

The PL 2 has some concerns (won't share them here). However, to one of the points you raised ... it would be interesting to have a tally of the ages of the players on all the rosters. Because if the model truly is to target players >20 but <23 that may be impractical (the PL2 may have greatest benefit for precocious talent) and we may end up with a babysitting/handholding exercise for the older players who in a different environment might be bid goodbye (in T&T, we could end up with a lot of non-commerically viable players?). And, unless there are really good coaches in this category who are attentive to details within the details, we would be wasting time and having a league merely for the sake of having one. (I'm deliberately being provocative).

Everton has invested in the age group by bringing in players. Arsenal has its players who have come through the ranks. Everton won last year. They strike me as caring about winning. Arsenal is more finely tuned on developing. So although I mentioned the score and "spanking", the truth is short-term gains mean diddly. Wenger knows each one of the U23s inside out. Everything Arsenal is is that man's construction ... and because of his continuity at the club, he's been able to work out how/who progresses and when ...

The football wasn't spectacular but the anecdotes were.

In case anyone is wondering Everton 4 Arsenal 2. In true Arsenal fashion, they could not preserve a lead. :P
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 02:44:32 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2017, 04:57:12 PM »
Asylumseeker, but would any one of those players on display be able to play a part in our u23 teams aiming to qualify and play in the olympics?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2017, 05:57:06 PM »
Asylumseeker, but would any one of those players on display be able to play a part in our u23 teams aiming to qualify and play in the olympics?

In terms of citizenship or eligibility for citizenship, I don't know. Of the lot, the one player that I'm aware of with Caribbean roots is Jamaica-and maybe Barbados) eligible.

Not that the definition begins or ends here, but ... Arsenal started with six black players and Everton, two (then two others who changed the match came on in the second half). Generally, if there's a place that might have T&T-eligible players, Arsenal would be a place to look. For instance, Reiss Nelson ... I doh know if he is a candidate, but someone should check. HOWEVER, as you and others have alluded to ... getting the player once identified is an entirely different proposition. If the player is in England's JNT ranks, they will be thinking strongly about suiting up for England.

Also, because of the age group normally involved in Olympic qualification, the player would have to be darn sure of his national team and maybe club situation.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:59:08 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2017, 06:12:23 PM »
No I meant in terms of competitive level and the player's ability.

Our problem is not players. It's getting players who can play/ have played 30+ games a season in a "ggod" league.

Our players have been proven time and time again not to be up to standard.

Remember we are in a weak federation. Concacaf isn't viewed as world beaters by anyone in the football world so we are literally at the bottom of the totem pole. If we can get players accustomed to competition at a high level that would be great.

We are literally begging Bostock to come and play but realistically right now he doesn't have a chance in hell of making an England top 100 players for national team selection. He probably can't even get selected before English league 1 players right now. That's how bad it is for us.

We are not just trying to recruit rejects we are trying to recruit the discarded and forgotten.

I think this is a good level to aim at recruiting. I think we should aim at the reserve and lower league players. They wouldn't necessarily be near national team selection. We simply can't offer them the prospect of qualification though. It is crucial that we offer them Olympics and Gold Cup competition.

Arsenal's Alex Iwobi was a sure England call up in the future but switched to Nigeria. They can offer him serious world cup qualifcation/competition and of course the African Cup of Nations.

We can't offer World Cup qualifications so it has to be Olympics to begin with. Maybe when it switches to 48 teams in the World Cup we would have a better chance at convincing them. The scary thing is if we still can't make it to a 48 team world cup then we truly would be a disgrace.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2017, 08:51:49 PM »
All of the players in the Arsenal squad showed accomplished technique.  Everton's players were no slouches also, give or take. However, the primary issue among the U23s is decision-making. For many, that's why they are playing PL2.

Competitive level? If they were facing South American/possible Mexican U23 NT opposition, on the day both PL teams would have suffered. At club level, the same would apply depending on the foreign club.

The problem is that the football they are preparing with emphasizes minimising risk-taking and discourages enterprise. The football is bland. Error-reduction does not have to mean football without personality.

I can't indict the PL2 on this match alone, but there's an immense gulf between where these players want to get and where they are collectively now.

I buy getting match experience, but I would caution against glorifying the PL2 merely because of its name. What was on display was about on par with a reasonably good Pan Am Games match in the same age bracket (so better than our Pan Am matches). It was not Olympic Games gold medal quality.





« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 08:54:10 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline congo

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2017, 09:53:45 PM »
Remember Asylum, we not trying to win the gold as yet. We  just seeing if what is on offer there is better than what is on offer in TnT and USA at the same age group. We just want players who in a competitive professional environment so that when they reach trinidad we won't have to keep teaching them the same basics. We want educated ballers i should say

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Jamaica pulls off 2-1 win as T&T made to rue missed efforts.
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2017, 01:41:23 AM »
Remember Asylum, we not trying to win the gold as yet. We  just seeing if what is on offer there is better than what is on offer in TnT and USA at the same age group. We just want players who in a competitive professional environment so that when they reach trinidad we won't have to keep teaching them the same basics. We want educated ballers i should say

Well, since you put it like that ... I refer to good football academies as being football schools because at the end of the day, dahis what they are ... Each time I hear players say "profe" I think of the world of a difference between that, Mister and "coachman".
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 01:46:27 AM by asylumseeker »

 

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