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Offline frico

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2019, 03:15:51 AM »
Good to see Judah Garcia. I noticed a bit of energy, skill and hustle from him when he came on.

No service from midfield



When was the last time we had a midfield? It's always drop back, can't even counter attack, but blast the ball and hope the striker can get it and make a run. How far our football has dropped. Not even in top 100 fifa ranking and the rigged World Cup qualifying mess.
We are 2 places above India standing at 101,India 103.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2019, 05:59:13 AM »
In a departure from tradition, I won't be making any substantive comments about the match.  :)

What I want to know is, having seen the match, what do posters think about the pre-match assertion that this outing would have been a useful exercise and opportunity for expression for a core of younger/not often played/exposed T&T squad?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:00:56 AM by asylumseeker »
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Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2019, 06:40:40 AM »
Didn see d game last night, it came up on my forza alerts but didn stay on mih radar at all....but from what I readin d same issues persist, dis team need ah system, one dat specific to d players we have..we need figure out d good, bad and ugly department by department and find a way to use d first one to help solve d other 2. Long balls is not d issue here, "aimlessness" of said long balls is d issue it have real exercises to help man understand how to measure ah long ball...we eh doin dem apparently, composure under pressure is also something that seems in short supply, but I tink dais jus d trini in we, coolness under pressure is very "untrini"...we does panic easy...but I digress we need ah system, one dat look at what we have look at dem closely and put dem to work in such a way dat what good can be used to mitigate what not so good.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:42:58 AM by lefty »
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Offline Flex

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2019, 07:44:21 AM »
Mexico beat Trinidad ahead of Nations League debut.
By Ana Paulina (en.as.com).


Mexico's experimental squad impressed against Trinidad and Tobago ahead of El Tri's debut in the CONCACAF Nations League.

Gerardo Martino fielded an experimental squad for the game against Trinidad and Tobago at Nemesio Díez in Toluca, the Mexican National team coach keen to observe young talent from the Liga MX with the CONCACAF Nations League in mind.

José Juan Macías proved his case in front of 'Tata' Martino as the Club Leon scorer opened the score for El Tri in a game that was mostly dominated by the locals, with The Soca Warriors fighting to contain Mexico's constant pressure.

The game was ultimately decided in the first half with Ricardo Angulo's goal to give Mexico a 2-0 lead, and with Trinidad compact in defense to focus on stopping El Tri's constant pressure up front, preventing from the game turning into a scoring party.

Goalkeeper Marvin Phillips had an excellent night for the Soca Warriors, making some fantastic saves to prevent Gerardo Martino's side from finding the back of the net more than twice.

Highlights - Resumen y Goles | Mexico 2 - 0 Trinidad and Tobago | Amistosos - Internacional | TUDN

Teams

Mexico Starting 1X - Raul Gudiño; Alan Mozo, Ismael Govea, Jesus Angulo, Cristian Calderon, Erick Aguirre, Ivan Rodriguez, Jesus Ricardo Angulo, Sebastian Cordova, Paolo Yrizar, Jose Juan Macias.

Subs Used: - Gerardo Arteaga, Ian Jairo Torres (Yellow), Jonathan Gonzalez, Jesus Godinez, Francisco Venegas, Johan Vasquez.

Coach - Gerardo Martino.

T&T Starting 1X - 1. Marvin Phillip (capt.), 5. Daneil Cyrus, 9. Christian Thomas, 12. Carlyle Mitchell, 13. Aikim Andrews, 14. Dwane James, 15. Jameel Perry, 17. Ross Russell Jr., 19.Duane Muckette, 23. Leston Paul, 27. Nathan Lewis.

Subs Used: - Isaiah Garcia, Judah Garcia, Aaron Lester (Yellow), Curtis Gonzales.

Coach - Dennis Lawrence.

Venue - Estadio Nemesio Díez Stadium, Mexico.

RELATED NEWS

Lawrence: ‘Mexico are phenomenal no matter what players they select’; T&T coach ‘proud’ of squad despite loss.
Wired868.com.


Trinidad and Tobago Men’s National Senior Team head coach Dennis Lawrence expressed pride in his outfit’s showing in Toluca last night, despite being comprehensively outplayed in a 2-0 loss to a youthful Mexico team.

Mexico coach Gerardo ‘Tata’ Martino selected 19 debutantes in his 24-man squad of local-based players to face the Soca Warriors. Apart from 24-year-old defender Luis Roma and the 23-year-old pair of goalkeeper Raúl Gudiño and midfielder José Iván Rodríguez, the Mexico team comprised entirely of under-23 players.

Lawrence had only three players in Toluca from his starting team that drew 2-2 against Martinique last month, although goalkeeper Marvin Phillip, defenders Daneil Cyrus and Carlyle Mitchell, midfielder Lester Paul and flanker Nathan Lewis have over 225 international appearances combined.

The final stats showed that ‘El Tricolor’ had 75 per cent possession on Wednesday while they outshot the Soca Warriors 27-2, completed 561 passes to 193 from Lawrence’s men with the pass accuracy calculated as 91 per cent by the hosts and 63 per cent by the visitors.

Lawrence insisted, though, that Mexico have one of the best football teams in the world—no matter which individuals they put on the field.

“It was very difficult for the boys to come to Toluca and play against what I see as not just the number one team in CONCACAF but a world phenomenal football nation regardless of who was on the pitch on the night,” Lawrence told the TTFA Media. “I was later genuinely proud of the players for the way they approached the game, showing commitment and dedication in such conditions and environment. Now we head back home and go into camp on 7th [October] where I’ll have availability of all the boys from abroad and home to prepare for the next match against Honduras.”

The Warriors drew both Concacaf Nations League games against Martinique and must defeat Honduras home and away to be guaranteed a spot at the 2020 Concacaf Gold Cup and remain in contention for a place in the Concacaf Hex qualifying group for the Qatar 2022 World Cup.

At present, the Warriors are on a 12 match winless streak, which ties an unhappy record for the National Senior Team. Trinidad and Tobago’s last triumph under Lawrence came on 6 September 2018 when they beat United Arab Emirates 2-0 in Girona, Spain.

However, the former 2006 World Cup hero was able to find some positives from his team’s showing in Toluca.

“I felt in the first half we gave them too much respect by playing too deep and not getting close enough to put pressure on the ball,” said Lawrence, “and the biggest crime we were committing was giving away the ball too easily every time we got possession of it.

“In the second half, we managed to get on the ball a bit better. We didn’t cause Mexico major problems in attack but we managed to keep our shape and discipline for longer periods and I was pleased with the group for the effort in that regards.

“These boys faced a mammoth task and they stuck in and showed some real determination to go down 2-0 and then come back and manage the game in the second half and restrict them.”

Lawrence also backed veteran defender Daneil Cyrus who was caught in possession for Mexico’s opening goal, which came from attacker José Macías in the 23rd minute.

“I was pleased with players like Cyrus who only got off the plane late on Tuesday from a flight from Dubai,” said Lawrence, “and I know he made an error in the game which cost us but he showed a lot of dedication to keep going. We had a couple home-based players who showed that they definitely want to be part of the team for the next couple games and that was pleasing.

“For the group on a whole it was an experience they will definitely take in good stride going forward. The game gave us a good opportunity to have players like Nathan Lewis on the pitch after he hadn’t played a full 90 minutes since the US game [at the June Gold Cup].

“And there was Aikim Andrews, Jameel Perry and Judah Garcia who had an opportunity to get minutes in this type of situation. It was good to see these players in this kind of environment.”

One player who missed the chance to feature in Mexico is versatile Club Sando attacker Nion Lammy, who was hospitalised on Tuesday after falling ill in training. Lawrence has remained in Toluca with the player and hopes they can both travel home on Saturday.

At present, Lawrence’s record as national coach reads 30 games played with five wins, eight draws and 17 defeats. The Warriors are yet to win in this calendar year.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 04:50:56 PM by Flex »
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2019, 07:44:49 AM »
WATCH: Match Highlights

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/FJM8llIGCw8" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/FJM8llIGCw8</a>


WATCH: Extended Match Highlights

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WuwFFLhmwxc" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WuwFFLhmwxc</a>
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Offline Sando prince

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2019, 07:47:52 AM »

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #66 on: October 03, 2019, 09:11:34 AM »
Look at where and how we gave away the ball on the first goal....

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2019, 11:15:50 AM »
Look at where and how we gave away the ball on the first goal....
when danial cyrus is a main stay on your squad then how on earth would you progress as a team? that bloke is a pure head case who wants to remind me of marvin andrews with some of the shenanigans he gets into on the pitch.

man like cyrus and bateau playing too long with loads of experience to be making such foolish errors in football. the last game vs martinique bateau headed a set price that was going out for a goal kick right back into play and across the face of his own goal at the feet of a matiniqan attacker for the equalizer, it was the perfect assist.

IMO these guys don’t come prepared to play their hearts out for their country, and I could be wrong but the level of intensity i see from some of these players certainly lack purpose. I believe we should go back to the USA game that kicked them out the world cup, all the big boys were either missing or on the bench including cyrus.

until a coach has the nerve to bench certain players regardless of their status we will be making noise about player performance. dennis lawrence you certainly shot yourself in the leg imo when you went back to marvin phillip, you would’ve been better off with jan Micheal Williams than this Phillips bloke. in that man’s who international career i doubt if he even has five clean sheets. very poor choice dennis very poor choice.

Offline Anbrat

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2019, 12:55:10 PM »
Look at where and how we gave away the ball on the first goal....
when danial cyrus is a main stay on your squad then how on earth would you progress as a team? that bloke is a pure head case who wants to remind me of marvin andrews with some of the shenanigans he gets into on the pitch.

man like cyrus and bateau playing too long with loads of experience to be making such foolish errors in football. the last game vs martinique bateau headed a set price that was going out for a goal kick right back into play and across the face of his own goal at the feet of a matiniqan attacker for the equalizer, it was the perfect assist.

IMO these guys don’t come prepared to play their hearts out for their country, and I could be wrong but the level of intensity i see from some of these players certainly lack purpose. I believe we should go back to the USA game that kicked them out the world cup, all the big boys were either missing or on the bench including cyrus.

until a coach has the nerve to bench certain players regardless of their status we will be making noise about player performance. dennis lawrence you certainly shot yourself in the leg imo when you went back to marvin phillip, you would’ve been better off with jan Micheal Williams than this Phillips bloke. in that man’s who international career i doubt if he even has five clean sheets. very poor choice dennis very poor choice.
You seem to be attributing our defeat mainly to Cyrus and more so, Marvin Phillip. Yes?

Offline frico

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2019, 02:42:37 PM »
Mexico beat us 2 -0 with a youthful team but they are powerhouses in the region and we were playing without some starters,I would put it down as a reasonable result.DL is trying to get TT to be at least,a good team in defence and who can blame him,we have been a bad defensive team from as far back as I can remember,had we tried to compete with the Mexicans we wudda collect 10 or more,so good job by the team and DL.Maybe if we had our best team we could have a go but I agree with DL.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2019, 02:51:09 PM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2019, 03:28:20 PM »
Allyuh could jump on Cyrus and Marvin all allyuh want. We had no quality on the midfield. Judah is a breath of fresh air, but he had no service from the middle.  He will be ineffective in the future if this does not change.  Hart was right when he said we lack players with speed, ball control and who can  simultaneously dribble. So go ahead pong Cyrus and Marvin, if that making allyuh feel better.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2019, 03:53:16 PM »
Allyuh could jump on Cyrus and Marvin all allyuh want. We had no quality on the midfield. Judah is a breath of fresh air, but he had no service from the middle.  He will be ineffective in the future if this does not change.  Hart was right when he said we lack players with speed, ball control and who can  simultaneously dribble. So go ahead pong Cyrus and Marvin, if that making allyuh feel better.

Buh ent Cyrus, Marvin and the midfield are 3 separate issues?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline ffisback

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2019, 05:56:25 PM »
The more I see DL coach the more disappointed I get I expected to see Judah Garcia play no less than 60 minutes instead to see the player come on the field after 75 minutes only after a player is injured is depressing and to have him play as a forward made no sense to me.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2019, 07:18:56 PM »
The more I see DL coach the more disappointed I get I expected to see Judah Garcia play no less than 60 minutes instead to see the player come on the field after 75 minutes only after a player is injured is depressing and to have him play as a forward made no sense to me.

 :applause:
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2019, 09:50:01 PM »
Look at where and how we gave away the ball on the first goal....
when danial cyrus is a main stay on your squad then how on earth would you progress as a team? that bloke is a pure head case who wants to remind me of marvin andrews with some of the shenanigans he gets into on the pitch.

man like cyrus and bateau playing too long with loads of experience to be making such foolish errors in football. the last game vs martinique bateau headed a set price that was going out for a goal kick right back into play and across the face of his own goal at the feet of a matiniqan attacker for the equalizer, it was the perfect assist.

IMO these guys don’t come prepared to play their hearts out for their country, and I could be wrong but the level of intensity i see from some of these players certainly lack purpose. I believe we should go back to the USA game that kicked them out the world cup, all the big boys were either missing or on the bench including cyrus.

until a coach has the nerve to bench certain players regardless of their status we will be making noise about player performance. dennis lawrence you certainly shot yourself in the leg imo when you went back to marvin phillip, you would’ve been better off with jan Micheal Williams than this Phillips bloke. in that man’s who international career i doubt if he even has five clean sheets. very poor choice dennis very poor choice.
You seem to be attributing our defeat mainly to Cyrus and more so, Marvin Phillip. Yes?
yes i am.

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2019, 10:01:04 PM »
Allyuh could jump on Cyrus and Marvin all allyuh want. We had no quality on the midfield. Judah is a breath of fresh air, but he had no service from the middle.  He will be ineffective in the future if this does not change.  Hart was right when he said we lack players with speed, ball control and who can  simultaneously dribble. So go ahead pong Cyrus and Marvin, if that making allyuh feel better.
deeks please open your eyes. we had a good showing against both Mexico and america in our last two games in the hex and I believe the reason for that was because the coach had no need for the top players and wanted to give fringe players a chance. in those two games we played with purpose and gave a good account of ourselves. so it baffles me when lawrence went right back to a losing formula when he was getting positive results using younger hungrier players.

IMO players like cyrus and phillip are not international brand players and should not continue with the national team, as a matter of fact I don’t know what the hell got into phillip when he decided to come back into the national set up after he initially walked away, but for certain we are better off without both him and cyrus that’s for sure.

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2019, 08:42:54 AM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
Do you think we consistently play a brand where we possess the ball in our half way to much with players almost stagnant in advanced positions?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2019, 09:09:04 AM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
Do you think we consistently play a brand where we possess the ball in our half way to much with players almost stagnant in advanced positions?

Even out of possession it is not a given that we need to be that physically present in our half, but if you concede space to the opposition ... don't be surprised when they attack the entire space you concede without any real necessity of trying to get in behind. I guarantee that at NO time was Tata Martino challenged or concerned and I submit that that was not because of only a gulf in class between the teams ... there was a gulf in class in thought and approach and ambition standing in the technical area.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 01:09:16 PM by asylumseeker »
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2019, 09:36:23 AM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
Do you think we consistently play a brand where we possess the ball in our half way to much with players almost stagnant in advanced positions?

Consider this: If scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the opponent, what does attempting to score goals do?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2019, 09:44:20 AM »
Quote
“I felt in the first half we gave them too much respect by playing too deep and not getting close enough to put pressure on the ball,” said Lawrence, “and the biggest crime we were committing was giving away the ball too easily every time we got possession of it.

How does that happen?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Tallman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2019, 10:04:57 AM »
FULL MATCH STATISTICS: Mexico vs Trinidad and Tobago.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2019, 10:08:02 AM »
We setup does be weird especially in defensive midfield we play ah single pivot..he does get isolated with d backline, we play ah double pivot they are always caught either not shielding the defense or not supporting d attack in any useful way...leston was often guilty of both....and kevan would get suck in/pulled out AND BIG GAP...honestly and ah know it scary for we, but I feel we should play ah high line... sit d defense on\around d halfline when we push up to try and mitigate dat shit, but dat will probably introduce ah nex set ah issues with we legendary knack for concentration loss.
I pity the fool....

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2019, 10:50:01 AM »
Shit coach = shitty team it’s that simple. Lawrence is pure shit without sol Campbell and the other English bloke.

now i understand what madman contro was on about, it’s quite probable that this ugly fat creep from W connection really sabotaged the team, maybe for money as mad contro reiterated. whatever it is, this connection man has set football back in this country 10 bloody years if not more.

Online maxg

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2019, 12:15:22 PM »
I just saw the extended highlights. It might be biased, however how can one blame any of the defensive players and goalie, especially Cyrus and Phillips, is totally beyond me. Mexico seemed to have a one way highway towards our goal, we lucky to only get 2. How many times they reach our defense and the amount of times our goalkeeper had to be called into action is ridiculously to many times. And yet ppl of the opinion is 2 members of that last line fault we lost. Pull stones you can’t be serious. That’s can only be some serious haterade dem 2 fellas give yuh. And free too, ain’t costing you nutten. Throw it way man.  ;)

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2019, 12:43:20 PM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
Do you think we consistently play a brand where we possess the ball in our half way to much with players almost stagnant in advanced positions?
Consider this: If scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the opponent, what does attempting to score goals do?
It forces them to drop back in their half and allows our team to advance.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2019, 01:22:43 PM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
Do you think we consistently play a brand where we possess the ball in our half way to much with players almost stagnant in advanced positions?
Consider this: If scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the opponent, what does attempting to score goals do?
It forces them to drop back in their half and allows our team to advance.

At this stage of the dance, maybe DL is concerned about not losing matches, rather than about winning them.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2019, 01:30:27 PM »
Let us not forget that to progress in the NL and rankings and to get to qualifying, WE need goals. Scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the OTHER TEAM.
Do you think we consistently play a brand where we possess the ball in our half way to much with players almost stagnant in advanced positions?
Consider this: If scoring goals changes the defensive posture of the opponent, what does attempting to score goals do?
It forces them to drop back in their half and allows our team to advance.

At this stage of the dance, maybe DL is concerned about not losing matches, rather than about winning them.
It sure looks like that. We play too careful not taking risks in the midfield to go forward and it often costs us from errors and pressure from opponents in our half. At this stage of the dance we need to play like we want to win!

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2019, 01:59:22 PM »
Quote
“I was pleased with players like Cyrus who only got off the plane late on Tuesday from a flight from Dubai,” said Lawrence, “and I know he made an error in the game which cost us but he showed a lot of dedication to keep going. We had a couple home-based players who showed that they definitely want to be part of the team for the next couple games and that was pleasing.

Interesting that putting Cyrus on a 30 hour expedition is used as both a shield and a sword. DL is a Jedi boss.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2019, 02:15:10 PM »
In a departure from tradition, I won't be making any substantive comments about the match.  :)

What I want to know is, having seen the match, what do posters think about the pre-match assertion that this outing would have been a useful exercise and opportunity for expression for a core of younger/not often played/exposed T&T squad?

Well now that Tata has seen the goods up close and personal, he would be salivating to see Cyrus at CB again, ent?   :devil:

Glenroy Samuel (since he is the chosen 3rd) in goal with ah Denzil Smith in tow? Judah on the field for a longer period. Other young and hungry ballers ... we would have learned something new, not confirmed everything we knew. Ah mean, Marvin was Marvin and Cyrus was Cyrus and DL was DL.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.