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Author Topic: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)  (Read 4767 times)

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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2019, 02:21:34 PM »
FULL MATCH STATISTICS: Mexico vs Trinidad and Tobago.

Mexico "covered" our recoveries. When we regained possession, they essentially won the ball back in no time.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2019, 03:32:33 PM »
Ah good counter-pressing team will always give we team beans :'(
I pity the fool....

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2019, 03:36:02 PM »
Allyuh could jump on Cyrus and Marvin all allyuh want. We had no quality on the midfield. Judah is a breath of fresh air, but he had no service from the middle.  He will be ineffective in the future if this does not change.  Hart was right when he said we lack players with speed, ball control and who can  simultaneously dribble. So go ahead pong Cyrus and Marvin, if that making allyuh feel better.

Good post. You could see that Cyrus looked exhausted from early in the game. IMO he never lived up to early expectations after back to back youth world cups. But this doesn't mean he is 'shit'. And he alone was not solely responsible for our dismal play and conceding serious real estate to Mexico, especially in the 1st half.   
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 03:39:01 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline Sando prince

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #93 on: October 04, 2019, 03:45:37 PM »
Mexico beat us 2 -0 with a youthful team but they are powerhouses in the region and we were playing without some starters,I would put it down as a reasonable result.DL is trying to get TT to be at least,a good team in defence and who can blame him,we have been a bad defensive team from as far back as I can remember,had we tried to compete with the Mexicans we wudda collect 10 or more,so good job by the team and DL.Maybe if we had our best team we could have a go but I agree with DL.


oh really our best team? what would that team look like? same team from the Gold Cup coached by DL? How did that experiement end?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #94 on: October 04, 2019, 04:06:45 PM »
Ah good counter-pressing team will always give we team beans :'(

lefty, yuh going too far. Counterpressing against us?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2019, 04:41:40 PM »
Ah good counter-pressing team will always give we team beans :'(

lefty, yuh going too far. Counterpressing against us?
our inability to counter attack doesn't exclude us from being counter pressed who bothering to wait to find out when it very evident we cyar handle pressure...when ah man could easily take 5 and 6 indecisive touch in SSFL and pro league before ah marker goh even contemplate shuttin him dong, you tink dem expecting dem mexican to be nipping at dey heels, cyah prepare for shit yuh never see or experience, india is we level...... man going central america and being shocked at d pace ah d game over dey :cursing:
I pity the fool....

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #96 on: October 04, 2019, 04:52:20 PM »
on dem two goal two defenders either side and nobody make ah effort to get stuck in until it too late :cursing:

dis team need academy level remedial work :banginghead: :banginghead: :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 04:55:10 PM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2019, 05:07:57 PM »
Ah good counter-pressing team will always give we team beans :'(

lefty, yuh going too far. Counterpressing against us?
our inability to counter attack doesn't exclude us from being counter pressed who bothering to wait to find out when it very evident we cyar handle pressure...when ah man could easily take 5 and 6 indecisive touch in SSFL and pro league before ah marker goh even contemplate shuttin him dong, you tink dem expecting dem mexican to be nipping at dey heels, cyah prepare for shit yuh never see or experience, india is we level...... man going central america and being shocked at d pace ah d game over dey :cursing:

So, thinking about DL's tenure ... which teams have counterpressed us?
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline maxg

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2019, 06:25:04 PM »
... we would have learned something new, not confirmed everything we knew. Ah mean, Marvin was Marvin and Cyrus was Cyrus and DL was DL.

That might be so..yet it can't be no coincidence certain fellas have been selected and played by every TT coach in their (the players) time.. i know some fellas does practice real good and hard like Messi, till the pressure hit them.. btw would like to see the greatest footballer today say a Messi or Ronaldo - not looking for argument - play a CB, with the rest of TT present crop in front ah dem. as a matter of fact, given Liverpool whole back line , goalie and our rest up front, bet we could still lose to Bahamas on a Bahamian non hurricane day. Not puttin nothing pass DL, expecting anything !
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 06:27:54 PM by maxg »

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2019, 06:40:28 PM »
Ah good counter-pressing team will always give we team beans :'(

lefty, yuh going too far. Counterpressing against us?
our inability to counter attack doesn't exclude us from being counter pressed who bothering to wait to find out when it very evident we cyar handle pressure...when ah man could easily take 5 and 6 indecisive touch in SSFL and pro league before ah marker goh even contemplate shuttin him dong, you tink dem expecting dem mexican to be nipping at dey heels, cyah prepare for shit yuh never see or experience, india is we level...... man going central america and being shocked at d pace ah d game over dey :cursing:

So, thinking about DL's tenure ... which teams have counterpressed us?
well considering dat we cyar even counter good but from what I saw they were really backing off us when we won the ball although highlights are short...full game might say something different
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 06:49:32 PM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #100 on: October 04, 2019, 07:28:01 PM »
... we would have learned something new, not confirmed everything we knew. Ah mean, Marvin was Marvin and Cyrus was Cyrus and DL was DL.

That might be so..yet it can't be no coincidence certain fellas have been selected and played by every TT coach in their (the players) time.. i know some fellas does practice real good and hard like Messi, till the pressure hit them.. btw would like to see the greatest footballer today say a Messi or Ronaldo - not looking for argument - play a CB, with the rest of TT present crop in front ah dem. as a matter of fact, given Liverpool whole back line , goalie and our rest up front, bet we could still lose to Bahamas on a Bahamian non hurricane day. Not puttin nothing pass DL, expecting anything!

What I'm saying is: who did the match prepare for Honduras? And did the match prepare us for Honduras?

And let's say we do qualify for the Hex, are the pensioners on the team going to be the ones playing the WC?

By the way, let me pose this ... Cyrus loses the ball in the middle of the park. Fair enough, it was a concentration error ... he was preparing the ball for service upfield and he misjudged the conditions. It happens. It's an action he does with frequency because that's one of DL's tools for building play. An attentive poacher and an astute observer would notice the pattern. Fair enough. But then Cyrus had two subsequent opportunities to nix de play. The best players in the world would have fouled Macias once they recovered. Then, why does Cyrus backpedal to allow the player room as he approached the penalty area? Maybe his sluggish decision-making is a product of flying from India to Mexico. Who decided to bring him that distance?

I fairly sure that a CB partnership of Mitchell and Gonzales could have sufficed.







« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 07:34:13 PM by asylumseeker »
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #101 on: October 05, 2019, 03:12:28 AM »
I fairly sure that a CB partnership of Mitchell and Gonzales could have sufficed.

I would have liked to see Mitchell and Gonzales. But the coach has confidence in Cyrus.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 05:29:25 AM by Deeks »

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2019, 11:54:32 AM »
It took me a while to realize that dennis was in over his head until we went to the gold cup or should i say the ďGOAL CUPĒ. this man is clearly one of the most clueless of all TT coaches yet heís still employed. I could only hope that our federation would hit the ground running as soon as they rid the nation of this cancerous fat man DJW by restructuring football and getting all the right people in the right places.

as it stands we need lots of developmental programs for coaches, referees, and children academies, we just cannot continue to rely on the SSFL anymore to supply us with future national players because we have seen  clearly where that does not work.

our lads for years have travelled to central america and the united states to compete on every level from U15 - U23, and against their leagues best at the concacafís champions league and they were clearly head and shoulders above us in every aspect. then we fast forward to the senior international level and nothingís changed, so where are we going wrong, are we so mindless to think that we donít need help, and fast?

I have been observing certain attitudes since DJW took charge and i came to the conclusion that a lot of these ballers are not interested in representing the team. players like guerra always have an excuse not to play, bateau has been excusing himself in very important games so is mikel Williams and jovin jones. i strongly believe these boys are not giving their all and for very good reasons known only to them.


Offline maxg

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #103 on: October 06, 2019, 11:35:03 AM »
I fairly sure that a CB partnership of Mitchell and Gonzales could have sufficed.

I would have liked to see Mitchell and Gonzales. But the coach has confidence in Cyrus.
as i stated, the amount of raids on our defense/goal, don't think any fullback defenders would have made a significant difference to a negative scoreline. The coach needs to coach tactics to either defend higher up the field or make selections that will have more successes on counters and open field play. Given the last year demonstrations, i don't think he is capable. The difference of coaching a club minor or even 1st / 2nd tier team, is the players are relatively constant and can be worked with daily for the better part of a year. With country, in many cases you have days and rarely the exact players. Therefore all things considered, selection to suite the coaches style becomes very important. Yet a year or two should be enough time to establish system, strategies and policies, if selecting the correct balance of age, ability and experience.

add: Maybe given additional years he will get it right  ??? Is football, one never know what/who/when things would actually work or fall into place, otherwise the World Cup would stay in the same country every 4 years.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 11:45:45 AM by maxg »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #104 on: October 06, 2019, 06:24:48 PM »
I fairly sure that a CB partnership of Mitchell and Gonzales could have sufficed.

I would have liked to see Mitchell and Gonzales. But the coach has confidence in Cyrus.
as i stated, the amount of raids on our defense/goal, don't think any fullback defenders would have made a significant difference to a negative scoreline. The coach needs to coach tactics to either defend higher up the field or make selections that will have more successes on counters and open field play. Given the last year demonstrations, i don't think he is capable. The difference of coaching a club minor or even 1st / 2nd tier team, is the players are relatively constant and can be worked with daily for the better part of a year. With country, in many cases you have days and rarely the exact players. Therefore all things considered, selection to suite the coaches style becomes very important. Yet a year or two should be enough time to establish system, strategies and policies, if selecting the correct balance of age, ability and experience.

add: Maybe given additional years he will get it right  ??? Is football, one never know what/who/when things would actually work or fall into place, otherwise the World Cup would stay in the same country every 4 years.

Largely agree.

And regarding the CB pairing the contention is not necessarily that Mitchell and Gonzales would have avoided a negative scoreline, but that they would have sufficed ... at least could have done/would have done no worse.

Cyrus and Mitchell were paired for the Japan match (0-0), so perhaps this was influential in DL's conclusion ... but, of course, that abstracts away all the other considerations ... different midfield, different team composition generally.

To my assessment, Mitchell and Gonzales have not been paired since Hutson Charles rolled them out during his tenure (interestingly including a match vs Stephen Hart's Canada). They were also used as a pair when the coaching staff was Charles-Shabazz-King, in the Caribbean Cup semi-final that assured us Gold Cup qualification.

Gonzales received very positive reviews during the Ascension tournament and I think Cyrus missed Mohun Bagan's match vs Kaligat on September 29, probably to accommodate his participation in Mexico on October 2 Seems like a lot of hoops to make that sweat in Mexico.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 06:26:51 PM by asylumseeker »
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #105 on: October 06, 2019, 08:15:22 PM »
Letís talk midfield. dennis lawrence does not have to suffer if he doesnít want too, at least in that department. he has at his disposal naval hackshaw whoís better than anything we have right now in center mid, if he pairs up hackshaw with hyland then hackshaw could play a more creative role in the midfield while hyland could be more of a stopper ball winner midfielder, and we already know hackshaw can defend because lawrence used him as a left back in the gold cup.

this lawrence man is starting two tackling ball winning center mids who has no assist to their name from day one, kavan george has no goals and no assist, leston Paul in the same boat with zero goals and not one single assist, yet lawrence continues to pair the both in midfield and depends on the wingers like garcia and Nathan Lewis (two beatsers who 90% of the time tries to beat the whole flank and loses the ball), then when that doesnít work he suits up jovin jones to create a miracle. this man needs to ride out, heís found out.

I simply canít watch another one of dennis games. the man has learned nothing about his team in two years, just players who could bearly hold on to possession and lumps the ball to no one when under pressure often turning over possession, this kind of football is very hard on the nerves. please dennis if you have any pride you would give it up. you not ready yet.

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #106 on: October 07, 2019, 04:02:27 PM »
Letís talk midfield. dennis lawrence does not have to suffer if he doesnít want too, at least in that department. he has at his disposal naval hackshaw whoís better than anything we have right now in center mid, if he pairs up hackshaw with hyland then hackshaw could play a more creative role in the midfield while hyland could be more of a stopper ball winner midfielder, and we already know hackshaw can defend because lawrence used him as a left back in the gold cup.

this lawrence man is starting two tackling ball winning center mids who has no assist to their name from day one, kavan george has no goals and no assist, leston Paul in the same boat with zero goals and not one single assist, yet lawrence continues to pair the both in midfield and depends on the wingers like garcia and Nathan Lewis (two beatsers who 90% of the time tries to beat the whole flank and loses the ball), then when that doesnít work he suits up jovin jones to create a miracle. this man needs to ride out, heís found out.

I simply canít watch another one of dennis games. the man has learned nothing about his team in two years, just players who could bearly hold on to possession and lumps the ball to no one when under pressure often turning over possession, this kind of football is very hard on the nerves. please dennis if you have any pride you would give it up. you not ready yet.

yuh pivots not really there to provide goals and arguably, assists their job is to shield the defense and provide linkage between defense and attack d problem with we pivot players is dat none seem to be very competent passers beyond a certain range.....an example chelsea boo boy of last year Jorginho is one of our best players this year 1 goal, 1 assist yet he is now the glue that holds everything together even get vice captain but for passing and linking :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:....Kevan is we best ball winner from even Hart days and was considered very important to d gold cup success we had d first time around...but doh depend on him to give yuh defense splitting passes yuh wasting yuh time dey kevan needs outlets dat easy....dat mean d wingers hadda come short or d CAM/CM drop deep or whatever to give him said outlets. but d point is criticizing defensive mids for goals and assists is kinda shortsighted.
I pity the fool....

Offline Tallman

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #107 on: October 07, 2019, 07:54:46 PM »
WATCH: Discussing the loss.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/uXhQy0XGjlk" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/uXhQy0XGjlk</a>
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Offline maxg

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #108 on: October 07, 2019, 09:24:00 PM »
Well said Tman. However on the topic of players taking adopting  a professional responsibility , although I totally agree, I believe that the coachís selection should partially include this criteria. DL is not new to the game, culture or country. He should be able to recognize from camps and proper scouting the athletes that are ready physically and mentally that are capable of executing his instructions. So I wonít at this level fault the selectees as much as I do the selectors. Some guys practice great and shrivel under the bright lights. Not entirely their fault, could be lack of mental preparation or training or simply not ready. Yet given the results and performance, obviously some players canít be executing his instructions- he canít be telling them bad pass when yuh bun-. Yet we keep getting on average the same performance. This indicates to me, he is not capable of making proper selections, given I am unable to comment on his tactics, which Iím not privy to and unable to discern from watching any of our games. Besides I donít have that level of football IQ, to figure what our National team is ever trying to do. 1 shot vs 29. I really donít know

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #109 on: December 15, 2019, 10:40:12 PM »
Lasana, regarding this match ... it wasn't played at sea level. Toluca is an uphill drive from Mexico City.
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #110 on: December 15, 2019, 10:55:13 PM »
Lasana, regarding this match ... it wasn't played at sea level. Toluca is an uphill drive from Mexico City.

Yep, it is uphill alright. Mexico city is 7382 ft. Toluca is 8750 ft above sea level. Meh buddies who were on the MNT to the 75 PanAm games told me of a hilarious incident. TT playing the first game against Mex. in Toluca. They said that a player made about 3 runs up and down the left side. After that he was bawling, " coach, oxygen, oxygen .... ".  And lost 6-1. Beat US 1-0.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 11:04:29 PM by Deeks »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Mexico vs T&T (02-Oct-2019)
« Reply #111 on: December 16, 2019, 10:54:58 AM »
Lasana, regarding this match ... it wasn't played at sea level. Toluca is an uphill drive from Mexico City.

Yep, it is uphill alright. Mexico city is 7382 ft. Toluca is 8750 ft above sea level. Meh buddies who were on the MNT to the 75 PanAm games told me of a hilarious incident. TT playing the first game against Mex. in Toluca. They said that a player made about 3 runs up and down the left side. After that he was bawling, " coach, oxygen, oxygen .... ".  And lost 6-1. Beat US 1-0.

At least in the 70s the air pollution level would have been lower. These days he might get 1 run instead of 3. :)
"It is not possible to make successful policy in a state of ignorance or indifference to what goes on in the real world." --- Martin Daly.