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Offline ABTrini

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Impact of culture on our Success?
« on: January 24, 2021, 07:48:47 AM »
How much of an impact is the success of our National teams on our culture or personality?

I will not indulge in attempting to complete a dissertation but to invite " ole talk" on observations about the intangibles which exist within the control of the individual athlete and the atmosphere he finds himself in.

Some foreign coaches have labelled elements of our culture as one characterized by laid back attitude  / and a proclivity  for liming/ and partying. If we accept this as part of what is innate to our athletes? What would it take for them to thrive I this  environment? Many have and we have had  international success!

But how do we sustain it? Harness this success and thrive? We have had many successful footballers who developed their talents from our local schools and leagues, go abroad and achieve success but upon returning to these shores have defaulted to patterns undisciplined actions required to sustain successful performance.
Intne past, how many times have our national teams had to leave the island during carnivalto for focus on playing qualifiers?

How many of our players are able to maintain the personal discipline / drive to adhere to training and lifestyle skill development required to be at the top of their game inTnT? 

If they desire to be Professional athletes , it would require more than  the possession of natural talent, which sets them apart , but an enduring  discipline and competitive drive to rigorous daily practice and training when all others are liming , partying and indulging.

How do coaches instill this? We have witness  many national coaches come and go- some foreign born some the sons of our soil who achieved success here and abroad all with the intent of imparting this success- some achieve a degree of success and others fell short. We have seen other countries - even within our region accept and have employed the services of our nationals for their programs yet these same nationals  were  not able to have an impact or influence the success of our players?

Do we have a flawed system? Or is it the atmosphere in which our players reside to blame? What are the factors required to develop nurture and sustain our success? Which factors reside within the control of players? Which factors do we need to revamp?
 What cu.tural shift ought to occur? Born in the 50's seeing our minnows on the international stage in the 60's - PanAmerican games- taking on World Giants Brazil in Trinidad- were feats of marvel! What happened in the ensuing years over the past two decades outside of 2006? These are serious questions our best football minds should be asking. Not that they have not been asked- I recalled either in late 90 ,d a series of symposiums to address football concerns- now I am suggesting that in the pursuit of excellence mYbe the ministry of sports  could begin a revamp of our programs, the governance  e trusted to oversee these programs  and examine supportive measures to e ha e and support individual development of our athletes.

Pouring money into a  drain will not fix the leaks- it just goes to those with hallucinating  mind numbing  thinking  of filling their own coffers or erecting monuments like HoF or Centre of Execellence  in the name of betterment but may just be some erection to placate their own midlife deficiencies or personal gains.

Today during this current COVID situation is a time there the external elects in the culture could be subdued and  the focus and discipline instilled, if I am a local player with dreams of making the national team only to know that all my effort and sacrifice will be for nought pe ding the arrivals of foreign players what is my motivation? If I am a foreign player knowing that I am a shoe in on the team what is my motivation?
I both instances the default to partying and liming is so readily available that no coach or program could influence me.

Folks is time for a revamp of our thinking , governance and levels of support if we want to sustain the 2006 level of achievements.



« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 07:59:00 PM by ABTrini »

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2021, 04:36:26 AM »
I've always been skeptical of "cultural" explanations, as it doesn't stop individuals form achieving. What does though is a lack of professional coaching, a lack of professional teams and a lack of avenues for players to make the next step up

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 06:26:32 AM »
I've always been skeptical of "cultural" explanations, as it doesn't stop individuals form achieving. What does though is a lack of professional coaching, a lack of professional teams and a lack of avenues for players to make the next step up

These said deficiencies which are lacking are part and parcel  of  systemic inadwquacies emanating within  our cultural landscape. What factors give rise to these?

Examine the culture of football in countries like  : Brazil, England ,Germany . Italy - Mexico and some other LatinAmerican countries -  There is almost a raging fanatical  devotion to the game and their national team.  Coaches  and players alike are held to a high regard and to a high degree of accountability for performance.

Some on this board may remember times when we could handle Mexico - we were competitive- ranking in top 50  FIFA - Fast forward today- I would suffice to say  we would be  battling to beat Anguilla - Barbados  and the lesser likes in our region. The propest of facing TnT does no longer drives a fear  within our region.

I would even suffice to say that the culture surrounding football has risen ten fold in Jamaica - and that's a tough pill to swallow.
What makes up that culture? - why have we regresed to the depths of bottom feeders? What patterns continue to prevail in our attempts to move forward? It's not all on the TTFA!!!! They are part of the cultural landscape that is situated within the cultural landscape. Players- discipline - mindset- approach and adherence to a professional standard- and even we the fans-- we tend to idolize and glorify only in times of success - long gone it seems that a national pride - a nation on the backs of a team - fans jumping and waving the flag - drum and iron pounding in the stands- days of packed stadiums and a collective uproar are no more-

Those days in the 60's and 70's going to a north south game at Skinner park was an experience!!!!! Intercol - lawd talk about noise and Kicks-Archibald Brewster- Spann Deleon -Benedicts- yes we rang out to the top of our lungs--- ".........,We want ah  goal ". Jumping to iron  ringing in your ear-
Today we seeing youths In a  cu.ture of jump and wave wave yuh rag - glorifying the soca- walk around with yuh pants halfway down yuh ass saying yuh is gangster - the popping of gun now is the sound yuh hearing- bottle and spoon is now silenced .

Yes tell me about the cultural impact on the players of today? Who are  their National  idols? If their national idols are out frolicking and if there is little incentive to fight for when a system is still dependent on who you know  to give you ah chance? There is not the same degree of regional competition - still the attitude that if yuh local yuh inferior- the youngster of Trinidad and Tobago Heritage playing in some level of foreign league or college  is clamoured after - just look at all the new thread!!!!  Where I stage focus on our local  product!!!
Nah we eh give priority to a viable development program- nah just ship out we best and most talented and then  they get a free pass on ah national team.
 Folks we are seeing what the right honourable Dr. Eric Williams referred to in the 60's as - "brain drain" in this instance is the drawing of our most talented to foreign soil- be it players or coaches- the culture does not support the nurturing of the local product. 

Sadly until  we do a revamp ab objective audit of all areas impacting football/ athletics perodwe are doomed to inept results- the reliance should not alwYs be on government handouts for sustainability but on all levels of cultural accountability. The Ministry of sports- has anyone ever consider what their daily duties are?  I would think that this ministry could lead a National  restructuring a national call onall governing g sports bodies to reexamine programs and governance in this country. From schools to community  based  grassroots teams.
Time for a paradigm shift-Let's all work on a cu,tural revolution in transforming the role of sports in improving our culture rather than allowing our culture to erode  our  youths ,our people our nation.


« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 06:45:17 AM by ABTrini »

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2021, 09:20:51 PM »
If we seeing the same ole- no defence - we too slow - no pace - nomateer the coaching tell meh  if  it eh something in the culture?


Offline Tiresais

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2021, 07:42:12 AM »
I've always been skeptical of "cultural" explanations, as it doesn't stop individuals form achieving. What does though is a lack of professional coaching, a lack of professional teams and a lack of avenues for players to make the next step up

These said deficiencies which are lacking are part and parcel  of  systemic inadwquacies emanating within  our cultural landscape. What factors give rise to these?

Examine the culture of football in countries like  : Brazil, England ,Germany . Italy - Mexico and some other LatinAmerican countries -  There is almost a raging fanatical  devotion to the game and their national team.  Coaches  and players alike are held to a high regard and to a high degree of accountability for performance.

Some on this board may remember times when we could handle Mexico - we were competitive- ranking in top 50  FIFA - Fast forward today- I would suffice to say  we would be  battling to beat Anguilla - Barbados  and the lesser likes in our region. The propest of facing TnT does no longer drives a fear  within our region.

I would even suffice to say that the culture surrounding football has risen ten fold in Jamaica - and that's a tough pill to swallow.
What makes up that culture? - why have we regresed to the depths of bottom feeders? What patterns continue to prevail in our attempts to move forward? It's not all on the TTFA!!!! They are part of the cultural landscape that is situated within the cultural landscape. Players- discipline - mindset- approach and adherence to a professional standard- and even we the fans-- we tend to idolize and glorify only in times of success - long gone it seems that a national pride - a nation on the backs of a team - fans jumping and waving the flag - drum and iron pounding in the stands- days of packed stadiums and a collective uproar are no more-

Those days in the 60's and 70's going to a north south game at Skinner park was an experience!!!!! Intercol - lawd talk about noise and Kicks-Archibald Brewster- Spann Deleon -Benedicts- yes we rang out to the top of our lungs--- ".........,We want ah  goal ". Jumping to iron  ringing in your ear-
Today we seeing youths In a  cu.ture of jump and wave wave yuh rag - glorifying the soca- walk around with yuh pants halfway down yuh ass saying yuh is gangster - the popping of gun now is the sound yuh hearing- bottle and spoon is now silenced .

Yes tell me about the cultural impact on the players of today? Who are  their National  idols? If their national idols are out frolicking and if there is little incentive to fight for when a system is still dependent on who you know  to give you ah chance? There is not the same degree of regional competition - still the attitude that if yuh local yuh inferior- the youngster of Trinidad and Tobago Heritage playing in some level of foreign league or college  is clamoured after - just look at all the new thread!!!!  Where I stage focus on our local  product!!!
Nah we eh give priority to a viable development program- nah just ship out we best and most talented and then  they get a free pass on ah national team.
 Folks we are seeing what the right honourable Dr. Eric Williams referred to in the 60's as - "brain drain" in this instance is the drawing of our most talented to foreign soil- be it players or coaches- the culture does not support the nurturing of the local product. 

Sadly until  we do a revamp ab objective audit of all areas impacting football/ athletics perodwe are doomed to inept results- the reliance should not alwYs be on government handouts for sustainability but on all levels of cultural accountability. The Ministry of sports- has anyone ever consider what their daily duties are?  I would think that this ministry could lead a National  restructuring a national call onall governing g sports bodies to reexamine programs and governance in this country. From schools to community  based  grassroots teams.
Time for a paradigm shift-Let's all work on a cu,tural revolution in transforming the role of sports in improving our culture rather than allowing our culture to erode  our  youths ,our people our nation.

I understand your point better now - I'd put most of what you've said down to poor organization and a lack of professional game though. The local game has been dominated by self-interested, ego-driven assholes and the constant changes have been a consequence. We're building a Home of Football whilst in massive debt? We're wasting money on that while prize money for half a decade is outstanding? Where we can't even get our teams licensed to play in the Caribbean Club Championship?

Maybe that's culture, but for me you don't see companies run this farcically in T&T - the local Gyro vender will run smoother and more efficiently than our "professional" game. This is a failure of leadership, a failure of the older generations who should be stewarding the younger generations towards progress, improvement and building the foundations for future success. Instead it's rotten old Crabs in a barrel, playing in empty stadia miles out of town while clubs struggle to pay their players, but it's okay because we have a glorified hotel now.

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2021, 09:00:34 AM »
Lot of threads lots of blaming on the same thing yet no one seems to be drilling down deep at possible root causes-  These superficial scapegoating about players skill set and coaching are all intertwined in a cultural frame which produces a mindset and approach = behaviour= actions= results.
Our default to normative cultural ways in part results in what we are seeing .

Take for example the article on part time players in the other islands- it indicates their cultural framework  about community play and you could read statements like until certain thinking changes then one may see different results.

Our Thinking have not changed to the degree to yield the results we yearn for instead we default to normative ways of being- aAll the local Training then at the last moment to  bring in young players from abroad and expect instant results is assinoine - for this we pay a coach 20k USA a month-

Recycling older players past their best years is desperation- not saying the coach is responsible for systematic cultural shift but once you have the players under your reins as a coach you have the ability to influence and impact change- witness 2006-



Someone have not changed the TTFA lightbulb - they still acting like all  we doing is 'normal'-  appropriate name  for the committee --Normalization- they acting as suggested. No vision no planning just reacting- spending and hoping for a messiah to lead them through the floods.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 09:05:00 AM by ABTrini »

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2021, 06:16:42 AM »
No one seems to t
Want to drill deep into the issues - lot of superficial rumblings and attacking and jumping off and on the wagon- Well I share Maxg sentiments- I have lots to be thankful for over  my 66 years- having played my high school football in the 60' - played at Skinner Park  'Greyhound Dovers'- witnessed the great north-south clashes-days of St.Benedicts ruling intercol - southerners having to deal with the arrogance of the likes ofQRC- Fatima- St Mary's - yes the so called privileged -
So today I stand affirmed and declare CULTURE Matters

People could go on and onyear after year- despite  whomever is coaching whomever is running the TTFAuntil we do a revamp of our cultural ways of approaching the game and getting up to speed we will be forever  be the 'minnow' castaway in the depths of football doom and gloom-
Until wearing those colours mean something more- until the will  to strive is more than the will to just get by- until to play this game is more than just about me--
Folks allyuh go on hoping for great things- I am out as the lack of anyone delving into  the deeper issues impacting our success is seemingly irrelevant - people are just as content to grasp at the most obvious and like a reoccurring decimal attack what appears to be without looking at embedded ways of thinking , doing and being.
Take care - keep the o.e talk alive - we like it so.


Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2021, 06:48:26 AM »
The story of Real Maracas is the sad reality about the pitfalls of TT football. This is one of the reason that community football is in shambles, and will be so if the stakeholders in football don't get their act together.

http://www.looptt.com/content/super-league-club-disappeared

Real Maracas FC was the toast of the Maracas-St Joseph area in 2010 when it was promoted to the National Super League.

The club climbed out of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association's East Zone to make it to the second-highest tier in local football.

Now, 11 years on, the club no longer exists and the last time players wore the colors of Real Maracas FC was in 2016.

"The proudest moment for us was when, after years and years of being in the top three of the East Zone, and working towards a qualification. We qualified in 2010," said former Real Maracas FC General Secretary Rene Lendore told LoopTT.

Ms. Lendore said to keep the club going in the Super League was costly, but Real Maracas kept their collective heads above the water mainly through support from the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs, and later from Pro League club Central FC.

The final three seasons in the National Super League before the club folded in 2016, were the most financially turbulent times for Real Maracas.

Transport was a major financial headache.

"When you think transport, you have to go to Siparia, you have to go to Guayaguayare, and this is two rounds of football," Ms. Lendore said.

Real Maracas, like the other Super League teams, played matches in Tobago, and Ms. Lendore said these trips were particularly costly.

"We could not afford overnight accommodation, so our players would go to Tobago on the 10 am flight, and they would sit in the pavilion and wait for the game to be played. After the game, we came back home the same night. That's difficult for any team," Ms. Lendore said.

On one trip to Tobago, the team went in at half-time to find their dressing room had been burglarized.

The players lost money, cell phones, and other valuables, which were never recovered or replaced.

"Nothing came out of that. Not from the Super League, not from the Tobago police, nothing. We lost everything, but we had to go out and play," Ms. Lendore said.

During the 2016 season, the club hierarchy had to dip into their pockets to keep the club afloat, with some administrators losing up to $60,000 of their own money in the process.

Then came the difficult decision by the club to end operations.

"It was hard. It was heartbreaking," said Ms. Lendore, "It was the demise of Real Maracas football club, that flew the flag of Maracas for 13-odd years plus."

There were attempts to revive the club, with attempts to merge with another club in Petit Valley falling flat.

In addition, appeals to get corporate Trinidad and Tobago involved in the club, also fell away.

"We had big names coming forward to buy the spot (in the National Super League) and still carry the name Real Maracas. But that was fought from all angles by people who claim they love Trinidad and Tobago football," said Ms. Lendore.

Asked if she believes that Real Maracas could be revived now, with COVID-19 making a big dent on sports globally, Ms. Lendore is less certain.

"I personally don't. I still wish somebody would come forward. We have a lot of talent that is being wasted in Maracas Valley. The guys too need an avenue to expend their energies because they are finding time to do a number of things I don't really want to go into," Ms. Lendore said.

In its final season, Real Maracas was coached by former Joe Public, Ma Pau Stars, Guaya United, and T&T U-20 coach Michael McComie, and included in their line-up former stars Marvin Oliver and midfielder Ryan "Fry" Stewart.

Real Maracas' home ground, the Maracas Recreation Ground, was overgrown when LoopTT visited on Sunday.

However, residents said efforts to make the ground usable was underway.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 10:47:46 AM by Deeks »

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2021, 07:44:47 AM »
Very sad -  I remember them as being one of the better teams, in terms of play and being run. They raise an excellent point about youths of the valley - how much talent is being wasted in T&T for lack of a route up? Maracas are far from the exception in that.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2021, 08:01:06 AM »
This has been going for ages. As one gone, ah next flash in the pan appears. Almost all the POSFL, NAFL, PYM, Central St.George, Arima, Central, SFA, SFL teams gone through because of the same situation. ASL, Sando, Strikers, memphis, Challengers, CoCorite UTD, Khelewalas, Tesoro Palo Seco, all, all fell thru.

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2021, 04:50:39 AM »
A proper organising body would account for the vastly differing travel costs - I've always been disappointed in the stop-start nature of Tobagoan football in our top leagues - their leagues seem to be better run than most of our FAs....

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2021, 06:32:23 AM »
Ah boi - culture- I eh know how many inhere could remember the sayings-
" who doh hear go feel"
Is like we " harden"
We get cat in bag

Yes think of all the cultural ways in which this WC campaign is aligning with how we does do things- ent we like it so? What we go do ent it happen already? 

What has changed ? Team selection? Reliance on foreign aid?/ players? Last minute  preparation?  Yeah who is to blame ? We get what we sow? Ent we does either blame TTFA  or the coach Year in doh matter who dey? Time we look at  the cultural contex u der which we operating- Leah we seek first to undestand from  this context of how we operate in establishing success of football in this country. Ever watch how our players does turn and blame and buff up each other fun mistakes? Whey dat coming from? We have a foreign born coach who has been indoctrinated into our ways of knowing that instead of instilling a different cultural approach we seeing ah regression and default to normative cultural ways of doing things-
Folks time for some serious overhaul.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2021, 07:51:24 AM »
Ever watch how our players does turn and blame and buff up each other fun mistakes?

Yes, we can blame culture as much as we want, but what you said above is the norm for any team, anywhere, any country. It stands out because we losing more than we winning. But other than that, I sympathize with you.

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2021, 07:09:18 AM »
Latest news regarding alleged players dissatisfaction -  ummm go back to top of this thread and tell me how all this is indicative of cultural ways of doing things?

The system is flawed- from selection of coach- to players - to preparation- recepie for disaster. All at a price way above paying a man 20k USA a month forthat kinda ah approach- I am surprised that more folks are not questioning  that market value being paid for what we have seen and heard  about team preparation to this point?

But yuh know the familiar cultural refrain: " it done so- what we go do" setups - ent we like bacchanal- ent is commess ineverything we do?

Offline pull stones

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2021, 01:32:55 PM »
Latest news regarding alleged players dissatisfaction -  ummm go back to top of this thread and tell me how all this is indicative of cultural ways of doing things?

The system is flawed- from selection of coach- to players - to preparation- recepie for disaster. All at a price way above paying a man 20k USA a month forthat kinda ah approach- I am surprised that more folks are not questioning  that market value being paid for what we have seen and heard  about team preparation to this point?

But yuh know the familiar cultural refrain: " it done so- what we go do" setups - ent we like bacchanal- ent is commess ineverything we do?
no mate. Itís more like you liking and inciting the commess. I have been telling the forum that these lads are the ones who have been sabotaging team for years, and if they really want too they could play very good football....that is if the conditions are favorable to them.

I donít know if you remember when DJW first became the president players like kenwin Jones and jan williams protested about monies owed, it was just after the man won the presidency, then suddenly Jan and kenwin retired from football right after we loss to the United States, the last game of the first round in qualifying to be exact.

go back to the first game in the second round when we went to costa rica where there were new faces up front like boatswain and hashin arcia. kenwin claimed to be injured and a bunch of players opted out. these guys are the most disruptive bunch we ever had on our national team, they are very very toxic players, they sabotage Steve hard because he pushed mikel williams and Kevin molino out the team for repeatedly breaking cerfew, they punished dennis because he also pushed cato and jovin out the team for the same indiscipline.

I even read a story once where the team was in camp and jovin Jones was out on the ocean liming by a boat ride on a jet ski, he opted out just so he could play hookie and enjoy himself. these lads could really ball if they chose too, but they could also be some serious saboteurs if they want too. Iíll say it again, fenwick better trod lightly with that carenage crew, the Jones brothers, molino, cato and the lad from st anns....bateau.

ABT, those guys almost beat mexico the last time they played against them in Mexico city. they scored first  and took mexico to the late part of the game, then allowed them back due to heavy pressure from the host team. these boys could ball if they want too, but the federation and the coach has to treat these players right. you canít be owing players and treating them shabby by putting them up in two star hotels with inferior equipment and prison tactics, fenwick also has to stop acting like an emperor and before open and accommodating, or else he would get the Dennis lawrence treatment and results.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2021, 10:53:37 PM »
these boys could ball if they want too, but the federation and the coach has to treat these players right. you canít be owing players and treating them shabby by putting them up in two star hotels with inferior equipment and prison tactics, fenwick also has to stop acting like an emperor and before open and accommodating, or else he would get the Dennis lawrence treatment and results.

pull stones, you are saying things that have been happening to players since we started playing WC. There are some but few exceptions. I have not read Gally's book. If anyone has, did he mentioned the fiasco in Costa Rica 1969 Concacaf Nations tournament? The players rebelled. They were in sub standard hotel while the officials were in five star hotel. When they came back TTFA suspended players and the trainer Trevor "Burnt Boots" Smith(also a newspaper columnist). Smith had backed the players. So pull, there is precedent with TTFA and players when it comes to basic compensation. And yes, quite a few players have let the team down with their behaviour on many occasions.

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2021, 06:49:18 AM »
these boys could ball if they want too, but the federation and the coach has to treat these players right. you canít be owing players and treating them shabby by putting them up in two star hotels with inferior equipment and prison tactics, fenwick also has to stop acting like an emperor and before open and accommodating, or else he would get the Dennis lawrence treatment and results.

pull stones, you are saying things that have been happening to players since we started playing WC. There are some but few exceptions. I have not read Gally's book. If anyone has, did he mentioned the fiasco in Costa Rica 1969 Concacaf Nations tournament? The players rebelled. They were in sub standard hotel while the officials were in five star hotel. When they came back TTFA suspended players and the trainer Trevor "Burnt Boots" Smith(also a newspaper columnist). Smith had backed the players. So pull, there is precedent with TTFA and players when it comes to basic compensation. And yes, quite a few players have let the team down with their behaviour on many occasions.

How much more do we need to see to be convinced that there is an embedded pattern , customary norms dictated by our  instutions  which encompasses  our social behaviours , reactions, approaches , beliefs  and habits that results in the way we approach the notion of achieving  success in football in this country.
Search the site threads for each qualifying campaign and you will find the same issues being debated - the hopes of a nation ebbs and flow- TTFA  coaches players discussed to infinity yet history repeats itself- when do we step out and look inward at the cultural frame from which our thinking lies to see what's driving us to the beliefs and approaches we take?



Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2021, 09:15:51 PM »
Don't ignore the impact of culture

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2021, 07:45:28 AM »
In another year of dancing with qualifications we once more  are bombarded with the same issues of old:

We begin the epic search scarvenging for any foreign born player eligible to represent TnT - anyone who may not be good enough to represent their country of north but can realize a dream via their heritage- sweet TnT- we adore thee.

We question our local governance and castigate blame for our lack of success.
Our defensive woes is habitually part of our DNA
We look and hope for some ' star bois'
And oh yes- we need a foreign coach cause while we have local coaches achieving success abroad we eh have time patience or the cultural mind set  to see them as good enough to take us to the promise land.

So if these reoccurring  events are forever  cropping up is there a possibility that in the mirror of our footballing  success we could possibly see how our cultural  ways of knowing of doing and of being is impacting our success?

Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2021, 02:02:54 PM »
And oh yes- we need a foreign coach cause while we have local coaches achieving success abroad

Which local coaches achieving success abroad ?

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2021, 06:10:59 AM »
And oh yes- we need a foreign coach cause while we have local coaches achieving success abroad

Which local coaches achieving success abroad ?

Your highlighted section is errenouse taken out of context - the statement is a facetious one- we don't need a foreign coach for that reason. We do have Trini born coaches who are striving and achieving success- Stephen Hart for one-
Too bad we could not see fit to have S .Hart as a technical director and Lawerence as assistant coach

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2021, 06:27:04 PM »
And oh yes- we need a foreign coach cause while we have local coaches achieving success abroad

Which local coaches achieving success abroad ?

Your highlighted section is errenouse taken out of context - the statement is a facetious one- we don't need a foreign coach for that reason. We do have Trini born coaches who are striving and achieving success- Stephen Hart for one-
Too bad we could not see fit to have S .Hart as a technical director and Lawerence as assistant coach
And oh yes- we need a foreign coach cause while we have local coaches achieving success abroad

Which local coaches achieving success abroad ?

Your highlighted section is errenouse taken out of context - the statement is a facetious one- we don't need a foreign coach for that reason. We do have Trini born coaches who are striving and achieving success- Stephen Hart for one-
Too bad we could not see fit to have S .Hart as a technical director and Lawerence as assistant coach
[/b]

Don't think anyone will let Mr. Lawrence near a national team anytime soon.

For what little value its worth, IMO 'culture' is often equivocated with administrative competency. They may share similarities but they are not the same. I don't think football is played culturally. If it were our results would uniform across the board. Outcomes vary with the quality of leadership in the governing body. Administrative competence is responsible for the final product on the field.

Its safe to say Raymond Tim Kee was a more competent administrator than David John Williams. Both eras shared many of the same players. The contrasting outcomes of teams of each era reflect a competency divide, rather than operating from a pervasive cultural prison from which cannot emancipate ourselves.

Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2021, 06:59:49 PM »
Dude, Steven Hart? Steven Hart is not setting foot in TT football after what was done to him.

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2021, 09:59:58 PM »
Dude, Steven Hart? Steven Hart is not setting foot in TT football after what was done to him.


Never said he was or will
Just saying ideally that would have been a good fit to see as a coaching staff

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2021, 01:53:52 PM »
Simplistic answered yield simplistic solutions
Easy to blame coaching and TTFA

But who wants to drill down and look at tweaking with the culture of football in TnT?

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2021, 10:24:06 AM »
How much of an impact is the success of our National teams on our culture or personality?

I will not indulge in attempting to complete a dissertation but to invite " ole talk" on observations about the intangibles which exist within the control of the individual athlete and the atmosphere he finds himself in.

Some foreign coaches have labelled elements of our culture as one characterized by laid back attitude  / and a proclivity  for liming/ and partying. If we accept this as part of what is innate to our athletes? What would it take for them to thrive I this  environment? Many have and we have had  international success!

But how do we sustain it? Harness this success and thrive? We have had many successful footballers who developed their talents from our local schools and leagues, go abroad and achieve success but upon returning to these shores have defaulted to patterns undisciplined actions required to sustain successful performance.
Intne past, how many times have our national teams had to leave the island during carnivalto for focus on playing qualifiers?

How many of our players are able to maintain the personal discipline / drive to adhere to training and lifestyle skill development required to be at the top of their game inTnT? 

If they desire to be Professional athletes , it would require more than  the possession of natural talent, which sets them apart , but an enduring  discipline and competitive drive to rigorous daily practice and training when all others are liming , partying and indulging.

How do coaches instill this? We have witness  many national coaches come and go- some foreign born some the sons of our soil who achieved success here and abroad all with the intent of imparting this success- some achieve a degree of success and others fell short. We have seen other countries - even within our region accept and have employed the services of our nationals for their programs yet these same nationals  were  not able to have an impact or influence the success of our players?

Do we have a flawed system? Or is it the atmosphere in which our players reside to blame? What are the factors required to develop nurture and sustain our success? Which factors reside within the control of players? Which factors do we need to revamp?
 What cu.tural shift ought to occur? Born in the 50's seeing our minnows on the international stage in the 60's - PanAmerican games- taking on World Giants Brazil in Trinidad- were feats of marvel! What happened in the ensuing years over the past two decades outside of 2006? These are serious questions our best football minds should be asking. Not that they have not been asked- I recalled either in late 90 ,d a series of symposiums to address football concerns- now I am suggesting that in the pursuit of excellence mYbe the ministry of sports  could begin a revamp of our programs, the governance  e trusted to oversee these programs  and examine supportive measures to e ha e and support individual development of our athletes.

Pouring money into a  drain will not fix the leaks- it just goes to those with hallucinating  mind numbing  thinking  of filling their own coffers or erecting monuments like HoF or Centre of Execellence  in the name of betterment but may just be some erection to placate their own midlife deficiencies or personal gains.

Today during this current COVID situation is a time there the external elects in the culture could be subdued and  the focus and discipline instilled, if I am a local player with dreams of making the national team only to know that all my effort and sacrifice will be for nought pe ding the arrivals of foreign players what is my motivation? If I am a foreign player knowing that I am a shoe in on the team what is my motivation?
I both instances the default to partying and liming is so readily available that no coach or program could influence me.

Folks is time for a revamp of our thinking , governance and levels of support if we want to sustain the 2006 level of achievements.

Examine the culture of football in countries like  : Brazil, England ,Germany . Italy - Mexico and some other LatinAmerican countries -  There is almost a raging fanatical  devotion to the game and their national team.  Coaches  and players alike are held to a high regard and to a high degree of accountability for performance.

Some on this board may remember times when we could handle Mexico - we were competitive- ranking in top 50  FIFA - Fast forward today- I would suffice to say  we would be  battling to beat Anguilla - Barbados  and the lesser likes in our region. The propest of facing TnT does no longer drives a fear  within our region.

I would even suffice to say that the culture surrounding football has risen ten fold in Jamaica - and that's a tough pill to swallow.
What makes up that culture? - why have we regresed to the depths of bottom feeders? What patterns continue to prevail in our attempts to move forward? It's not all on the TTFA!!!! They are part of the cultural landscape that is situated within the cultural landscape. Players- discipline - mindset- approach and adherence to a professional standard- and even we the fans-- we tend to idolize and glorify only in times of success - long gone it seems that a national pride - a nation on the backs of a team - fans jumping and waving the flag - drum and iron pounding in the stands- days of packed stadiums and a collective uproar are no more-

Those days in the 60's and 70's going to a north south game at Skinner park was an experience!!!!! Intercol - lawd talk about noise and Kicks-Archibald Brewster- Spann Deleon -Benedicts- yes we rang out to the top of our lungs--- ".........,We want ah  goal ". Jumping to iron  ringing in your ear-
Today we seeing youths In a  cu.ture of jump and wave wave yuh rag - glorifying the soca- walk around with yuh pants halfway down yuh ass saying yuh is gangster - the popping of gun now is the sound yuh hearing- bottle and spoon is now silenced .

Yes tell me about the cultural impact on the players of today? Who are  their National  idols? If their national idols are out frolicking and if there is little incentive to fight for when a system is still dependent on who you know  to give you ah chance? There is not the same degree of regional competition - still the attitude that if yuh local yuh inferior- the youngster of Trinidad and Tobago Heritage playing in some level of foreign league or college  is clamoured after - just look at all the new thread!!!!  Where I stage focus on our local  product!!!
Nah we eh give priority to a viable development program- nah just ship out we best and most talented and then  they get a free pass on ah national team.
 Folks we are seeing what the right honourable Dr. Eric Williams referred to in the 60's as - "brain drain" in this instance is the drawing of our most talented to foreign soil- be it players or coaches- the culture does not support the nurturing of the local product.

Sadly until  we do a revamp ab objective audit of all areas impacting football/ athletics perodwe are doomed to inept results- the reliance should not alwYs be on government handouts for sustainability but on all levels of cultural accountability. The Ministry of sports- has anyone ever consider what their daily duties are?  I would think that this ministry could lead a National  restructuring a national call onall governing g sports bodies to reexamine programs and governance in this country. From schools to community  based  grassroots teams.
Time for a paradigm shift-Let's all work on a cu,tural revolution in transforming the role of sports in improving our culture rather than allowing our culture to erode  our  youths ,our people our nation.


 Calling on the NC to have an overiew of our football programs strting today for 2026-

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2021, 09:53:10 PM »
How much of an impact is the success of our National teams on our culture or personality?

I will not indulge in attempting to complete a dissertation but to invite " ole talk" on observations about the intangibles which exist within the control of the individual athlete and the atmosphere he finds himself in.

Some foreign coaches have labelled elements of our culture as one characterized by laid back attitude  / and a proclivity  for liming/ and partying. If we accept this as part of what is innate to our athletes? What would it take for them to thrive I this  environment? Many have and we have had  international success!

But how do we sustain it? Harness this success and thrive? We have had many successful footballers who developed their talents from our local schools and leagues, go abroad and achieve success but upon returning to these shores have defaulted to patterns undisciplined actions required to sustain successful performance.
Intne past, how many times have our national teams had to leave the island during carnivalto for focus on playing qualifiers?

How many of our players are able to maintain the personal discipline / drive to adhere to training and lifestyle skill development required to be at the top of their game inTnT? 

If they desire to be Professional athletes , it would require more than  the possession of natural talent, which sets them apart , but an enduring  discipline and competitive drive to rigorous daily practice and training when all others are liming , partying and indulging.

How do coaches instill this? We have witness  many national coaches come and go- some foreign born some the sons of our soil who achieved success here and abroad all with the intent of imparting this success- some achieve a degree of success and others fell short. We have seen other countries - even within our region accept and have employed the services of our nationals for their programs yet these same nationals  were  not able to have an impact or influence the success of our players?

Do we have a flawed system? Or is it the atmosphere in which our players reside to blame? What are the factors required to develop nurture and sustain our success? Which factors reside within the control of players? Which factors do we need to revamp?
 What cu.tural shift ought to occur? Born in the 50's seeing our minnows on the international stage in the 60's - PanAmerican games- taking on World Giants Brazil in Trinidad- were feats of marvel! What happened in the ensuing years over the past two decades outside of 2006? These are serious questions our best football minds should be asking. Not that they have not been asked- I recalled either in late 90 ,d a series of symposiums to address football concerns- now I am suggesting that in the pursuit of excellence mYbe the ministry of sports  could begin a revamp of our programs, the governance  e trusted to oversee these programs  and examine supportive measures to e ha e and support individual development of our athletes.

Pouring money into a  drain will not fix the leaks- it just goes to those with hallucinating  mind numbing  thinking  of filling their own coffers or erecting monuments like HoF or Centre of Execellence  in the name of betterment but may just be some erection to placate their own midlife deficiencies or personal gains.

Today during this current COVID situation is a time there the external elects in the culture could be subdued and  the focus and discipline instilled, if I am a local player with dreams of making the national team only to know that all my effort and sacrifice will be for nought pe ding the arrivals of foreign players what is my motivation? If I am a foreign player knowing that I am a shoe in on the team what is my motivation?
I both instances the default to partying and liming is so readily available that no coach or program could influence me.

Folks is time for a revamp of our thinking , governance and levels of support if we want to sustain the 2006 level of achievements.

Read this Pull stones- this eh about quick fix

Offline Deeks

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2021, 11:33:40 PM »
Some foreign coaches have labelled elements of our culture as one characterized by laid back attitude  / and a proclivity  for liming/ and partying. If we accept this as part of what is innate to our athletes? What would it take for them to thrive I this  environment?

ABTrini, I am not pounding you on this statement. I  know our players are defficient in many ways. But this talk about our proclivity for liming and party is bull. Our players eh no different from players in Euro or South America. How many English players they fine for driving drunk, altercations at bars and pubs. Recently some attending parties in lockdown.  CR7 on alleged rape charge. I am not condoning some of our players work ethic. But man does have to struggle to get a salary at the end of the month.  How do we expect motivation as you mentioned above.

The Afro Trini population who play most of the football is in dire straits even before this pandemic  East of the Dry River who used to packed Savannah, Geo V, PSA, Oval no longer doing that. The youths doh love the sport with the passion of their fathers, brothers, uncle, school mates. Youths used to pay football, basketball, cricket in the dry river. Sammy Llewellyn, one of the best bar none, developed his skill playing there. Now is vagrants on cardboard. Football is just recreational sweat for them. Football eh have nothing for them. Anyone ah allyuh go encourage allyuh sons to to be a professional baller in TT in this day and age. I doubt it. The youths have no respect for the own culture. I still surprise of the amount of people does still come out for Panorama. But that is a fleeting occasion. After Panorama, everything foreign rules.

Offline ABTrini

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Re: Impact of culture on our Success?
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2021, 07:25:59 AM »
Ent we like bacchanal? Ent that part of we culture? Well ah reading all the behind scenes of player selection - alleged favoutism - and back and forth between real big men.

It is unfathomable to think that a coach would be allowing this sort of behaviour to fester among the team. The more you read the more you can see that this was a doomed campaign. I do believe in our players and that player for player we could stack up with the best of the Caribbean. However mismanagement- discontentment low morale appeared to be utter distractions. Why?   Bacchanal  appeared to be running rampant among the team- it appeared that the merit or worth of some players were ignored-  management defaulted to ah friend friend thing-

I say this again if we want to dominate we have to fix the  culture around our approach to football- we can't operate like we do in life- have to change the mindset-  Does  anyone know if the team has a sports psychologist or performance coach?