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Author Topic: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)  (Read 4340 times)

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Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #90 on: July 19, 2021, 09:01:48 AM »

d constant needless back passes annoying


We playing a lot of backward passes right now.

We've probably played about 7 to 8 minutes worth of negative passes out of the 90 minutes.

Honestly, that is the norm for most teams, clubs and national teams. But last night is was driving me f**king crazy.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #91 on: July 19, 2021, 09:17:14 AM »
Having looked at Panama vs Honduras and the speed and movement . I looked at the first half and saw the backward passes and the slow pace except for the goal . Then no Molino , Muskeete, Ryan.
 It was just the thought that I would not be seeing my beloved team for a long time in a competitive tournament that had me tuned in. Eve Tried but not ready for this level. Financially it may make sense to keep  him but we are back to the same narrative - Hire a foreign coach near Competition time.
 The more things change the more they remain the same.

Ah! You've taken me to precisely something I had a look at. I posted some of the stats above. One stat not included was number of passes.

Knowing the passing stat for Guatemala vs T&T match (406 to 391), curiosity led me to comparing it to the match you cited and two other matches. Interestingly enough, in that match Panama had 54% possession and 323 passes while Honduras with 46% of possession made 276 passes in a 3-2 victory for Honduras. The possession stat in Guate vs T&T was 52% vs 48%.

What does that suggest comparatively about efficient use of the ball?

« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 09:19:41 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #92 on: July 19, 2021, 09:31:31 AM »

d constant needless back passes annoying


We playing a lot of backward passes right now.

We've probably played about 7 to 8 minutes worth of negative passes out of the 90 minutes.

Honestly, that is the norm for most teams, clubs and national teams. But last night is was driving me f**king crazy.

It was driving you crazy because it was probably beyond the standard deviation. It seemed to have driven many/several observers crazy. Not sure that includes the coach.

I view a lot of football. You view a lot of football. When last you have been that put off by negative passes?

I view it as an issue that could have been resolved and should have been resolved relatively quickly, but I am also absorbing that it has grown roots genetically.

When used in European football it is accompanied by other actions designed to spark penetration. The players were not balanced in applying it as an unlocking instrument.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 09:36:39 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline Peong

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #93 on: July 19, 2021, 10:35:28 AM »
Eve say in the post-match conference that personal fitness played a big part. How much more could we have done with fit players? It was 5 games in about 2 weeks, that had to take a toll. I feel short-changed in that we can't accurately assess the team's ability if they not fit. Also if we had Hyland, Bateau and Levi we would have had a much stronger team. Even if we playing ultra-defensive, Levi is a reliable outlet for a counter-attack, and he woulda stretched their back lines.
Eve also said he rested Molino because he just came back from injury, fair enough, he has to consider Molino's career in a situation where we were highly unlikely to progress.
In this tournament I didn't think the formations used were good for Molino. He needs a fellow attacker near him in the attacking third to combine with. His clever passes and movement are what make him great. He not goin to dribble through 3 men but he will certainly take then out the equation with a pass or a run.
When is Copa Caribe?

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #94 on: July 19, 2021, 10:52:03 AM »

d constant needless back passes annoying


We playing a lot of backward passes right now.

We've probably played about 7 to 8 minutes worth of negative passes out of the 90 minutes.

Honestly, that is the norm for most teams, clubs and national teams. But last night is was driving me f**king crazy.

It was driving you crazy because it was probably beyond the standard deviation. It seemed to have driven many/several observers crazy. Not sure that includes the coach.

I view a lot of football. You view a lot of football. When last you have been that put off by negative passes?

I view it as an issue that could have been resolved and should have been resolved relatively quickly, but I am also absorbing that it has grown roots genetically.

When used in European football it is accompanied by other actions designed to spark penetration. The players were not balanced in applying it as an unlocking instrument.
Resetting play through yuh defenders is common tac to switch or recycle d ball if a avenue get block but these days defenders push up to be closer options,  while we defenders wasn't "staying home" they were mostly negative and never once would try and resist Guat press in a forwrd thinning way, except for Alvin.

Even if fitness was a concern, ah lack of courage  is what did us in here, we didŮ't really play "bad", d coaching staff just decided to leave dey balls in Florida  or something 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 11:03:10 AM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2021, 10:59:52 AM »
Eve say in the post-match conference that personal fitness played a big part. How much more could we have done with fit players? It was 5 games in about 2 weeks, that had to take a toll. I feel short-changed in that we can't accurately assess the team's ability if they not fit. Also if we had Hyland, Bateau and Levi we would have had a much stronger team. Even if we playing ultra-defensive, Levi is a reliable outlet for a counter-attack, and he woulda stretched their back lines.
Eve also said he rested Molino because he just came back from injury, fair enough, he has to consider Molino's career in a situation where we were highly unlikely to progress.
In this tournament I didn't think the formations used were good for Molino. He needs a fellow attacker near him in the attacking third to combine with. His clever passes and movement are what make him great. He not goin to dribble through 3 men but he will certainly take then out the equation with a pass or a run.
When is Copa Caribe?

Yuh light de stove and yuh cooking with gas. 🔥

Offline lefty

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2021, 11:24:05 AM »
Eve say in the post-match conference that personal fitness played a big part. How much more could we have done with fit players? It was 5 games in about 2 weeks, that had to take a toll. I feel short-changed in that we can't accurately assess the team's ability if they not fit. Also if we had Hyland, Bateau and Levi we would have had a much stronger team. Even if we playing ultra-defensive, Levi is a reliable outlet for a counter-attack, and he woulda stretched their back lines.
Eve also said he rested Molino because he just came back from injury, fair enough, he has to consider Molino's career in a situation where we were highly unlikely to progress.
In this tournament I didn't think the formations used were good for Molino. He needs a fellow attacker near him in the attacking third to combine with. His clever passes and movement are what make him great. He not goin to dribble through 3 men but he will certainly take then out the equation with a pass or a run.
When is Copa Caribe?

Yuh light de stove and yuh cooking with gas. 🔥

I woulda go more 343-ish stay compact in ah mid block and most launch d front 3 and wingbacks and leave d defensive 5 floating close for cover more like 3-2-5 in attack...we woulda have ah lil solidity and d ability to get numbers forward with good enough  protection in d backline  , neither  guat or el sal was engaging in any kinda high width to make ah straight back 5 any kinda necessary from what I could see
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 11:36:00 AM by lefty »
I pity the fool....

Offline kounty

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2021, 02:31:27 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/hk0q0MEWxcc?start=202" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/hk0q0MEWxcc?start=202</a>

Youtube lets you set the playback speed. Slow down to 0.25X under Settings (the gear wheel symbol below) and check out the screen that Powder eat for the Guatemala goal. All the defensive heads on the board - how you defend against this?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 02:34:57 PM by kounty »

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2021, 02:58:41 PM »
Youtube lets you set the playback speed. Slow down to 0.25X under Settings (the gear wheel symbol below) and check out the screen that Powder eat for the Guatemala goal. All the defensive heads on the board - how you defend against this?
You have to anticipate that they can set a screen, players do this reguarly on corners and set pieces. I'm sure this is not the first time Powder or our players has experienced this at his level. I give Guatemala credit because they executed it well but when defending you and your teammates have to be on the same page/communicate that if one player gets screened and is obstructed, the other teammate go with the player and the one who was screened take the player he was marking. If not the open player who came off the screen will always be open to attack those balls.
Another way to defend it is through zonal marking where the players are responsible for certain spaces, since they're not man marking it's harder to set a screen....but that could cause problems if the lacks chemistry as it could lead to uncertainty and players assuming the other teammate would've cleared that ball.
But yea, I noticed that's what happened to Powder on the goal last night but by the time he recovered it was too late.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #99 on: July 19, 2021, 05:22:01 PM »
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but the goal scored by the goalscorer is one of his trademarks.

Offline Sando prince

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2021, 08:05:51 PM »

Read the comments here. Where is T&T football today?

https://www.facebook.com/TeamTrinbago/posts/539292024083645

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #101 on: July 20, 2021, 09:59:19 AM »
Youtube lets you set the playback speed. Slow down to 0.25X under Settings (the gear wheel symbol below) and check out the screen that Powder eat for the Guatemala goal. All the defensive heads on the board - how you defend against this?
You have to anticipate that they can set a screen, players do this reguarly on corners and set pieces. I'm sure this is not the first time Powder or our players has experienced this at his level. I give Guatemala credit because they executed it well but when defending you and your teammates have to be on the same page/communicate that if one player gets screened and is obstructed, the other teammate go with the player and the one who was screened take the player he was marking. If not the open player who came off the screen will always be open to attack those balls.
Another way to defend it is through zonal marking where the players are responsible for certain spaces, since they're not man marking it's harder to set a screen....but that could cause problems if the lacks chemistry as it could lead to uncertainty and players assuming the other teammate would've cleared that ball.
But yea, I noticed that's what happened to Powder on the goal last night but by the time he recovered it was too late.

Although that moment in time is the obvious critical moment, there are other questions that can be asked about the entire defensive organization. We have 11 players defending that corner. They have 9 players placed to support or attack the corner. The outcome of the corner shouldn't have turned exclusively on what was in part a 3 v 3 matchup that went belly-up, but these things happen. Doesn't just come down to Powder.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 10:04:16 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #102 on: July 20, 2021, 10:07:08 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/hk0q0MEWxcc?start=202" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/hk0q0MEWxcc?start=202</a>

Youtube lets you set the playback speed. Slow down to 0.25X under Settings (the gear wheel symbol below) and check out the screen that Powder eat for the Guatemala goal. All the defensive heads on the board - how you defend against this?

A 4th player would have helped block/impede Gordillo's path to the ball.

Other observation: if we had a player in an anticipatory countering role (1 v 1+GK), they would have had to adjust the position of their players at the edge of the penalty area. That frees up an additional defender for us closer to the targeted drop zone and would have aided defending their CB's header.

Strikes me that we are set up to win the ball/goal kick, rather than to concretely defend the corner. We are certainly not positioned to propose a counter.

Big difference in outcome between defending between (a) man and goal and defending between (b) ball and man.

Other interesting nuance is that they have a player on the line in addition to the kicker of the corner. Really well-thought out and crafted corner kick. Damn good equalizer, although we could probably have done a better job of managing the spaces and situation.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 11:13:07 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline Tallman

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #103 on: July 21, 2021, 11:48:06 AM »
Morris: Performance shows players believe in themselves
By Walter Alibey (T&T Guardian)


Despite a 1-1 tie with Guatemala in Group A of the CONCACAF Gold Cup that confirmed the Soca Warriors' exit from the tournament, the performance of the national men's football team said something different.

The tie means the Warriors finished the group stage with two points, which came courtesy of drawn results with Mexico 0-0 in its opening match, and against the Guatemalans in their last match on Sunday at the Toyota Stadium in Frisco, Texas, USA.

But for those who saw the match with analytical eyes, it was a pleasant sight. Clayton Morris, a former captain and defender for the now-famous "Strike Squad" team which came within a point of qualifying for the 1990 World Cup in Italy, said the team's performance against Guatemala showed that the players believed in themselves.

Morris, who is also the president of the T&T Super League (TTSL), in a release on Monday said: "T&T 1-1 draw vs Guatemala indicates clearly that this group has belief in themselves and their intention to achieve greatness.

"As mentioned previously, the commitment and willingness of the players individually to combine the three aspects of defence, creativity in midfield and attempts on goal, were executed much more and with purpose. Preparation or lack of preparation (what you put in that's what will come out), the intention to complete each task in each department/position during the game, came in bits and pieces, lacked energy and enthusiasm, and they were very sloppy at times. However, much more is expected at this level in order to get better results."

It was a pleasant show from a mixture of local and overseas players, compared to what was produced when the team was booted out of the World Cup Qualifiers, following wins against Guyana (3-0) and St Kitts and Nevis (2-0) and drawn results against Puerto Rico (1-1) and Bahamas (0-0).

National coach Angus Eve's sought to kill two birds with one stone, by attempting to play his strongest team while enabling all his charges to get playing time for the tournament. In the end, however, it was only a defensive blunder from a corner that deprived his team of maximum points.

Morris said: "To achieve success there is a process that must be followed and demonstrated regularly, which brings confidence. Confidence comes naturally with success but success comes only to those with confidence. The mentality to get the required physical fitness, technical and tactical attributes must be a priority and be consistent going forward.

"The fightback must continue to yet again raise T&T football. Most importantly, to develop a growth mindset in the young and upcoming players (boys and girls) for future Gold Cups and World Cups."

Morris said he is confident that together "we can make it happen".
The Conquering Lion of Judah shall break every chain.

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2021, 05:31:29 AM »
A crappy 1-1 draw vs guatemala when you drew 0-0 with mexico is something to be proud and satisfied with, really Clayton thatís the best you could come up with? Is pride and belief in themselves you said mister, are you for real? these three performances was the worst Iíve seen in national colors. in the first game mexico dominated from start to finish with some 30 shots on goal, vs El Salvador they played a six man defensive line up and still conceded twice, and came back against a second string guatemala with a defensive line up again, this time unable to put the game away after going ahead, come on Clayton who are you kidding.

a month ago you and the whole football fraternity was out with your placards calling for fenwickís head, now today youíre giving out passes and making excuses calling shitty performances belief sessions, you guys are the reason why trinidad is such a criminal shit hole. you exonerate mediocrity when itís one of your own but fly off the handle with a foreigner.

you people stood by and destroyed one of the most progressive little nations in the west with your unpatriotic thieving ways and your bullshit double standards. you lowered the standard of the nation to facilitate your friends and relatives, be it job opportunity, education or even accreditation. you people are the worst, you keep lowering the bar each and evey time brining this nation down with your ineptitude and double standards. whereís the fire angus eve thread?

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for T&T vs Guatemala (18-Jul-2021)
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2021, 12:32:19 PM »
Youtube lets you set the playback speed. Slow down to 0.25X under Settings (the gear wheel symbol below) and check out the screen that Powder eat for the Guatemala goal. All the defensive heads on the board - how you defend against this?
You have to anticipate that they can set a screen, players do this reguarly on corners and set pieces. I'm sure this is not the first time Powder or our players has experienced this at his level. I give Guatemala credit because they executed it well but when defending you and your teammates have to be on the same page/communicate that if one player gets screened and is obstructed, the other teammate go with the player and the one who was screened take the player he was marking. If not the open player who came off the screen will always be open to attack those balls.
Another way to defend it is through zonal marking where the players are responsible for certain spaces, since they're not man marking it's harder to set a screen....but that could cause problems if the lacks chemistry as it could lead to uncertainty and players assuming the other teammate would've cleared that ball.
But yea, I noticed that's what happened to Powder on the goal last night but by the time he recovered it was too late.

Although that moment in time is the obvious critical moment, there are other questions that can be asked about the entire defensive organization. We have 11 players defending that corner. They have 9 players placed to support or attack the corner. The outcome of the corner shouldn't have turned exclusively on what was in part a 3 v 3 matchup that went belly-up, but these things happen. Doesn't just come down to Powder.
Totally agree with your assessment here and the way in which you broke it down further. Lack of fitness leads to lack of concentration and we were clearly gassed in the second half, could've been a factor in this situation. Similarly in El Salvador's second goal, we had two players ball watching in the midst of a scramble to get the ball over the line, first thing I thought was fitness. Hopefully these details and issues can be corrected going forward.