2022/23 Concacaf Nations League Thread

[Controversial]

can anyone here honestly say Eve is the coach to take this team to the WC?

[ABTrini]

Is there a chance that we can get Molino back on Eve's side and apologise for Trinidad & Tob's sake.

I tort we done with the recycling  football program---------------- to tven tink bout dat kida miove smacks like desperation- man on limp knees outa pace and we thninkso so. Is part are we tinking- to flal back onm teh 'star boi; ting. how many time we recycle Cornel Glen on wounded knes? fuh starters Theobalt? and teh list could go on.
Win or lose leh we run with the yute dem and develop the program . It does take awhile fuh mango tuh ripe.

[gawd on pitch]

If we qualify, we facing Argentina, Chile and Peru.

Don't be surprised if Venezuela is removed from the Copa. If Maduro invades Guyana, I guarantee Concacaf, Conmenbol and FIFA will have Venezuela removed. This might make way for another Concacaf spot.

[Flex]

Trinidad and Tobago motivated to beat Canada after Copa draw: Dreaming of Argentina.
By Jonathan Ramnanansingh (T&T Newsday).

A glamour clash with World Cup champions Argentina in the opening game of the 2024 Copa America awaits, if Trinidad and Tobago's men’s footballers can defeat Canada in a qualifier at the Toyota Stadium in Texas on March 23.

This was confirmed on Thursday night at the Copa America draw at the Hyatt Regency in Miami, which saw representatives from the TT Football Association (TTFA) and other federations present.

The tournament kicks off from June 20 to July 14 with reigning Copa America winners and No 1 ranked Argentina looking to defend their title.

If T&T, ranked 96th, can pull off an upset victory against the 48th-ranked Canadians, they will be placed in Group A alongside the Lionel Messi-captained Argentina, Chile and Peru.

T&T football coach Angus Eve, who attended the draw alongside four other TTFA officials, said it was an “honour” to attend the draw, and a great opportunity to have a chance to face the globe’s best-ranked team.

“This is tremendous for T&T football to have an opportunity to play in a tournament as illustrious as this. This is the oldest country tournament and we’re privileged to be here and to face the type of opposition that we may have the opportunity to face. It’s a blessing,” Eve told TTFA media.

He said the possibility of facing Argentina serves as “motivation” for his troops to go all-out against Canada in their final qualifier.

T&T missed out on automatic Copa qualification when they were eliminated in the Concacaf Nations League quarter-final by USA, over two legs, in November. Canada faced a similar fate against Jamaica.

The other two losing quarter-finalists – Costa Rica and Honduras – also play a one-match playoff on March 23, at the same venue, for a spot in Group D with Brazil, Colombia and Paraguay.

Eve said the draw serves as great motivation.

“Just for the guys to know they have the opportunity to play the world and Copa America champions, and the best player in the world (Messi), it’s motivation enough for the boys to come out.

“It’s motivation enough for the country to get behind the team, and every corporate (body) and government to get behind and support the team to prepare for such a massive opportunity.”

Although salivating at the prospects that await, Eve said T&T should not get ahead of themselves, since Canada will be no walk in the park. He, however, welcomed the challenge.

“We were looking at the draw and were hoping that we got Mexico or Argentina to be honest. These are the type of games you want to play. You want to put these players through the rigours and have the opportunity to play some of the best teams in the world.

“But I just want to be mindful that we still have a job to do. We still have to play Canada which a very tough team, and we need to get over that hurdle first. And hopefully we have the excitement of playing in the Copa America.”

For the new year, Eve said he will continue working assiduously with his local crop of players, and will use January/February 2024 to improve their overall competitiveness. He made it clear that Carnival 2024 is not an option for his players.

“We’re trying to expose the locally-based players as much as possible within January and February, with training camps over the Carnival period. (We’ll) take the boys away from the Carnival a little bit.

“Hopefully, come March, we’ll have all the other foreign-based players that would join the group for a two-week camp to prepare for the Canada game.”

Soca Warriors captain Aubrey David also saw the draw as a “blessing” and believes the possibility of facing Argentina will bring out the best in the team.

A chance to play in such a prestigious tournament as Copa, he said, is a great confidence booster.

“Reaching to a Copa is a big plus for us as it will do a lot for us and the country. After seeing the draw, being able to face the World Cup champions and having other chance to play against them, I think it’s a lot of motivation.

“It’s no secret that everyone would like to play against Lionel Messi. Not only playing against them, but playing in that type of tournament – it’s a big boost. They guys are already motivated thinking about the Canada game.”

David rued their missed chances for automatic qualification but said, knowing they’re 90 minutes away from a historic Copa debut, the team is pumped. As captain, David believes the next three months are crucial, and wants to lead by example.

“I need to make sure I take care of myself, continue to play and get rhythm so I can lead from that standpoint. After every international camp, I tell the guys we need to continue to grow so when they go back to their clubs, to continue to put that extra work in because we already know we’re fighting for a bigger goal,” he added.

David admonished his teammates that now is not the time for complacency.

“Continue to take care of yourself and push. Because the more they do that they will continue to progress, grow in confidence and quality. If everyone keeps pushing themselves and we regroup to face Canada, we’ll be in a much better shape and form.

“We already have togetherness so once we continue to grow from there, the message to me is to continue to push themselves so we can achieve the collective goal, which is Copa qualification."

In 2014, T&T faced Argentina, their second-ever meeting, in a friendly in Buenos Aires and lost 3-0. Messi played in that match but did not score.

Copa America Groups:

Group A: Argentina, Peru, Chile, Trinidad and Tobago/Canada.

Group B: México, Ecuador, Venezuela, Jamaica.

Group C: USA, Uruguay, Panamá, Bolivia.

Group D: Brazil, Colombia, Paraguay, Costa Rica/Honduras.

[vb]

Just curious, for anyone who actually attended the game vs the USA at the HCS, what was the attendance like and how did Real Gill look?

I get the impression Real can't really make an impact against the bigger better teams due to a lack of size. Curious to hear form someone who actually attended the game.

VB

[kounty]

no international calendar dates before this fixture for a warm up self.. and TTPFL run all the way thru May, so...lemme wast muh time and go Dallas 

[kounty]

anybody understand why the play-in matches listed at minimum $290 a ticket (and only seem to include the closest seats to the field)?  https://www.vividseats.com/concacaf-nations-league-tickets-toyota-stadium---frisco-3-23-2024--sports-soccer/production/4788317, but the other Concacaf Nations League Semifinal and Final Matches start at $40 and seem to include the entire stadium? https://seatgeek.com/search?f=1&search=Concacaf%20Nations%20League%20Finals%20Presented%20by%20Qatar%20Airways%20Semifinal&ui_origin=home_search

Anybody have a TTFA ticket link?

[gawd on pitch]

USA 0 - 1 Jam scored at the 35 second mark

Jamaica is playing without 4 starters  including Leon Bailey.

[Controversial]

@gawd

JA still under the crown, so they get a Bligh as opposed to Trinidad and Haiti

[gawd on pitch]

@contro, which crown? Yuh mean the monarchy?

I don't think the FIFA execs sat down and purposely agreed to give Jamaica a bligh. Things ain't that planned out.

As much as I agree with you on some things, your opinion about Jamaica getting a bligh because they are still being a constitutional monarchy, is very very far fetched.

But, I will tell you that Jamaica is a country that has been 'opened up' to the world. Mainly because of their accomplishments. But also because of their proximity to English culture.

[Controversial]

@gawd

There is privileges with this tbh and we have seen it in the music. T&T had calypso fall off not too long after independence and becoming a republic.

This extends to football also, T&T has been on the blacklist for a while. To some it seems far fetched but it is reality with certain disciplines. It is deeper than you think brother. It isn't a wild conspiracy theory as you think it to be...

[gawd on pitch]

This might not be the best place for this but here it is.

Quick history session Contro. By the way, I shared the same sentiment. .

From 1900s to 1930s Carnival was co opted by the colonial government. The calypsonians use to sing songs that poked and discredited the British government. They were concerned that calypso would open the eyes of the people in Trinidad and reject colonial/British government. To prevent that, the colonial government began to offer monetery gifts and awards to calypsonians, who did not sing about the colonial british government. They encouraged the calypsonians to sing about island life, rum and other things that would not raise the consciousness of the people. They also switched carnival from August to February to coincide with the Christian lent. This is where we get some of these house negros, who don't know their history, saying things like Carnival is French influenced. . Or the belief that Carnival  somehow came from Europe and not the Caribbean/Africa.

Fast forward to mid 1960s. Calypso was still the music of the Caribbean. Jamaica as a society had embraced calypso so much that calypsonians were going to Jamaica to perform, make records and so forth. One famous Trinidadian named Lynn Tait showed up in Jamaica for a concert and eventually decided to stay. His stay in Jamaica would reshape music in the Caribbean. This is a very touchy subject for Jamaican who don't know. Lynn Tait laid the foundation for what we have as reggae in the mid late 1960s. Many documentaries about reggae music credit Lynn Tait as the guy who got the wheel moving to create Reggae. In fact in 2010 Portia Simpson commemorated Lynn Tait at a ceremony at the national stadium in Jamaica for being the pioneer to Reggae.

Now to speak to your point about calypso losing popularity because Trinidad became a republic is not that simple and a bit far fetched. Calypso lost its popularity or lost its position  from being the music of the Caribbean for 3 main reasons. First it was the rise of Reggae music. Second was the popularity of Bob Marley. Third was the context and political climate in the 70s.

Calypso tried to put a face of on the music like Bob Marley and Reggae. It was a failure. Sparrow is not, and I say this again NOT anywhere near the level of Bob Marley. He will never be. The guy who probably could have been the Bob Marley of Calypso would have been Maestro who died in a car crash. He was young, vibrant and rebellious.

In the late 60s and going into the 70s, many countries in Africa and the Caribbean were ridding themselves of colonialism. The rebellious nature of Reggae music and the message of love is what resonated with people outside of the Caribbean much more than the messages of Calypso. Also Calypso was mainly being written for Caribbean society, way of life and for carnival. This did not fit in with the global audience like Reggae music was.

England and English culture is what gave Reggae music the platform to go global. Reggae music fit in well with the civil unrest  that was happening in England in the 70s and 80s.

So brother, Calypso was not penalized because Trinidad became a republic. It's the rise of Reggae, popularity of Bob Marley and the global context that propelled Reggae past Calypso.

[Controversial]

I actually have a minor from University of Toronto in Caribbean and African history & politics. I did almost a year long project on the history of Caribbean music, with a focus on calypso, pan, lavway and soca...

Nerlain Taitt was brought to Jamaica by Byron Lee, he kept him there and prevented him from leaving by constantly working him in the studio, where Taitt was the session arranger and musical director of Studio One. Where The Wailers, Bob and Tosh etc came out of. He created rocksteady by implementing the bassline and guitar strumming from Calypso, with adding the pan bass to the ska. He also slowed it down, the ska was too fast. In a famous interview with Bob, they asked, where does this all come from, Bob responded "Calypso". Sir Chris Blackwell at the time started Island Records in 1958 during the "Golden Era of Calypso" with Harry Belafonte as the poster boy for RCA with the album "Calypso" which was released in 1956.

Harry was chosen because he was a redman and the preferred image to the darker skin Trinbago calypsonians who wrote most of his music. After independence of T&T, the crown chose Sir Blackwell and the newly formed Reggae music, which was created in part by Nerlain Taitt as their new commercial music, as Jamaica was still beholden to the crown and controlled by a loyalist, Sir Blackwell, a Sephardic Jew.

The anti-colonial sentiment and elimination of the "Head of State" created the blacklisting of calypso going forward from the 70s until now. Hence, the stealing of our music and it being rebranded as reggae, reggaetone, now afro beat and later Rap. Calypso was also never added to the RIAA as a category at the Grammys and Harry Belafonte was never honored for being the first artist to sell 1 million albums in any musical genre in the world, with "Calypso".

Brother Resistance and I had a long chat before his death many years ago in Trinidad. I was supposed to do a documentary on him and "Extempo" and "Rapso". He spoke about the shutting down of Trinidad's claim on Rap music and also the closing of doors of our music on US radio, which was deliberate and due to our revolutionaries and independence.

Further to this, calypso has been stricken from mainstream success at the highest levels of music. This was also evident with Arrow's "hot, hot, hot" and many others that were reproduced and rebranded pop, as opposed to soca and calypso.

I would go into further detail here but it is long and will take some time to write tbh...

In short, I can attest that T&T's lack of musical success with soca and calypso is attributed to our revolutionary spirit and independence, in comparison, Jamaican music flourised under the crown and continues to as opposed to us from Trinidad and Tobago, this is facts and not conspiracy... 

[reggae-fan]

Nice to see a Jamaica team missing 4 Premier League starters defeat Panama to take bronze.  That last minute own goal defeat to a stacked USA team playing in their home turf hurts. 

[gawd on pitch]

@Contro

That was a good write up. It enlightened me. I did study Caribbean society in University. However, I did not pursue a minor or anything with it. My degree program only allowed 4 Caribbean courses toward my degree. So I couldn't go in depth like you.

I agree with your points. But calypso decline is connected to the rise of Reggae. Calypso was the #1 music in the Caribbean. But it's decline in popularity correlates with the rise of Reggae. I do think that Jamaica was opened up more to the world than other islands. Also, with Jamaicans going abroad with more numbers than Trinbagonians, they exported their culture. I think factors like Jamaican immigration also contributed to popularizing Reggae and quieting Calypso.

I wouldn't put it past the Monarchy to blacklist Calypso, but I don't think they had to. The rise of Reggae was enough to capture English and society ears.

One thing that I learned from my Caribbean studies professor, is that after independence in Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica as a nation was keen on separating themselves from what was a "West Indian" identity, and creating a Jamaican identity. Trinidad was not so adamant to do so, as about 50% of the Afro Trinidadians have lineage that comes from Grenada, St Vincent, Barbados, etc.

My question to you Contro is if the Monarchy was so interested in stifling calypso and Trinidad, why did they allow Nottingham Carnival to take place right in their own backyard ? Is your answer to this the revenue that the Carnival brings in into England?

It's a good discussion we having here Contro. I know with some fellas on here these things does sometimes turn ugly. Why I say this is because 20 years ago I didn't know the things you and I outlined here. I'm sure many on here reading this as new information. So much love brotha

@Reggaefan, big up for the win. They look good for 2026.

[gawd on pitch]

I think the soca warriors need a rebranding. Drop that name soca warriors. Soca does not fit in line with a warrior mentality. If anything soca is there as a pacifier.

Rebrand the name as TNT dynamite. Let's not follow Jamaica and name the team after music.

[frico]

gawd on pitchIf I ever meet you I'll give youa Gold Medal for that post.As you say we should not have followed Jamaica,and as you say Soca does not go with Warriors they must think over that name properly.We need a name that moves our emotions.

[gawd on pitch]

@Frico much respect for that. I'm sure others on here would agree too.

I like TNT dynamite. It's loaded with double meaning. Connotes explosion, danger and everything to create a brand to fear. It will also help identify Trinidad and Tobago by TNT. The fact that we came back after conceding a goal to win 3 of our Nation League's games, it fits well.

Drop Soca Warriors. It was good then. Just like how Strike squad was good back then. But maybe the way forward to improving our results, starts with taking on a new persona.

Thank you Frico. We'll see who is willing to argue that Soca Warriors strikes fear. Most of them teams outside of the Caribbean don't know what soca is. Drop it please.. Drop it please

[Deeks]

Allyuh real desperate. Blaming the the nickname. Soca Warriors is the name that took US to the WC. The name is not the issue. It is the lack of talent and poor quality of our game. Soca Warriors is or was about an underdog rising to the occasion. The smallest country in the world(in population and physically size) taking on the giants  of football. If allyuh so desperate, why not TT Bullets. It is quite appropriate for the current times in TT. Real kill.

[Controversial]

@deeks

lack of talent? no brother, lack of coaching and self control and governance over our football...

How can we lack talent, when we are not even selecting our best talent because Eve is controlled?

please brother, we have too much talent to choose from and we are not even doing that bc of who is in charge, FIFA..

[Controversial]

@gawd

Great convo brother, I'm enjoying talking about our history. We need more of these conversations for everyone to know our contributions to world history.

Not a lot of Universities have an in depth program like University of Toronto and York University, sadly. Our professors were great, PHDs/Doctorates etc with a vast knowledge of Africa and the Caribbean. It wasn't bird courses, the courses were hard and required serious work and research. You had to actually love being there and learning about our history.

I beg to differ brother, Calypso's decline was deliberate and due to Rocksteady's rise with Taitt. Had Taitt not re invented ska and added those calypso elements, Reggae would not have flourished. The rise of "black power" and independence movement in TT and push to become a republic created the right environment for a blacklist. A music doesn't just fade away like that, there is a reason for it, because artists in TT were constantly creating. Lancelot Layne and many others continued to re cerate but guess what?

We didn't have a record label in Trinidad and Tobago. Why is that? Calypso sells one million and continues to bloom in Hollywood movies etc but no label? Calypso also disappeared from the stations in the US as well after independence. The rise of reggae was orchestrated and Calypso had to fall on it's sword to enable the rise of reggae, which was basically an offshoot of calypso and it's root. If you are disloyal to the crown, you can take a back seat... Calypso took that backseat and continues to take that backseat with soca.

They had to blacklist calypso for reggae to rise and TT was persona non grata so it was inevitable.

JA separating their identity was largely due to their tie to the crown, their head of state being the Queen. TT was always about unity, which was another reason we became public enemy #1. A united West Indies means the eventual elimination of neo colonialism and TT spearheading that was a threat...

Our cultural Carnivals bring in billions to the city, they have no obligations to us. They allow us to celebrate our culture and in return they make money and profess they support diversity and inclusiveness. They know they control the radio and media, they control what you hear on Iheart radio and what charts on Billboard magazine. They control who performs at the Grammys and the TT population is smaller than most in a viral world. So our Carnival is not a threat to the hegemony they hold on world music and what is a Top 40 or Billboard hit.

So you can have your Carnival because we benefit more than you and your culture, with no strings attached. You get your jump up, we get our money and we still don't need to play your music on the radio, we can just steal your music and repackage it and have no consequences.

You ever notice that even though our Carnivals bring in billions annually to these cities, the music never gets played on mainstream radio? You would think that a festival and music that brings in more money than reggae or EDM etc and also was the first to sell one million, programmers for radio stations would push to play the music. Even if it was pay for play, they still would resist, despite them now playing afro beat and reggaetone, carbon copies of our music.

Much love brother, blessings for the easter....

[gawd on pitch]

@Deeks. We ain't blaming the name. Soca Warriors as a brand is like a paper tiger. Time to change it. It does not sound powerful at all. It's a weak brand. The majority of the teams that we play outside of the Caribbean think that Soca is a corruption of the word Soccer.

A change in identity might be what we need. I know yuh love your Soca Deeks, but think about Soca and think about if it really reinforces a warrior mentality that is needed on the field. Soca is a pacifier. Sure it puts you in good spirits. But it doesn't give you a killer instinct side like what you get with hip hop, reggae, rock music. Look at the UFC and listen to the music the fighters walk out to when going to the  octagon. It's always music that is hard-core. Music that encourages you to KICK ASS. Soca does not have the same impact on the athletes psyche. I think is once on UFC or Bellator a fighter walk out to Bunji "We ready". You see my point Deeks. Soca is not warriors music. It's pacifier music. It does not encourage the listener to revolt.

Next time you go to the gym, listen to some hard-core hip hop then try Soca. You'll see which one pushes you more.

[gawd on pitch]

@Contro, I see some of your points. But if Calypso was so catchy, it would have survived the push from the Monarchy. It would have been more resilient. Remember the US media did that to hip hop in the 80s. but they realized hip hop is a force that cannot be stopped.

Indeed good conversation

[gawd on pitch]

@Frico I was thinking last night. Fellas does say how our football lacks impetus, or lacks conviction. Soca always gives you that feeling that everything go be ok. I feel there's a connection there. What yuh think?

[Peong]

We hadda listen to more trinibad den

[Fyzoman]

@peong

Ent boy…level TriniBad for our new TnT Bullets (like another member facetiously suggested😀)

If only Levi had scored that confounded sitter😉

[Deeks]

Breds, what can I say. What's in a name.

Next time you go to the gym, listen to some hard-core hip hop then try Soca. You'll see which one pushes you more.

I beg to differ. Pumped up Soca in a gym or in the water aerobics can take on any genre of music.

[gawd on pitch]

@Deeks I'll give you that one. But which one will give you that "killer instinct "? The drive to put the nail in the coffin? Not Soca.

[maxg]

 

[Fyzoman]

@maxg...