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Author Topic: Remedial School  (Read 13484 times)

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Offline Jahyouth

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2005, 12:47:15 AM »
I understand your feelings regarding the way the players may speak, but saying dat is de way we does talk is not an excuse for lack of self improvement.


bossman, this is exactly what I am saying.  You see the word you just use: self improvement.  So talking like them makes you better as an individual?  I guess them French black players having the hair straight straight like Drogba is self improement too then cause they looking more like them?

Love yourself boss.  You well shakle.

Some men takiing this totally out of context.  Drogba straightening his hair has nothing to do with being able to effectively communicate to others.   That might be a case of personal style or an inferiority complex (who knows?).  Fact is that our dialect is sort of like  a different language, and english is a common vehicle of expression that is used to communicate to the rest of the world, just like other people learn english if they speak another language.  Why? Because english is considered as the language that allows others of different nationalities, etc., to have a common means of expression.  

We hadda agree to disagree here I guess.  I stand firm saying that Trinidad dialect is in no way inferior to standard English.  As a result, if the players speak "Trini" I have absolutely no problem with that. That is who we are.  So if someone says, "The onliest thing we didn't do is score five!"  I good with that. 

I do not think that speaking standard English is "better" or constitutes "self improvement" as you said as well.  Why?  Because just because it is theirs doesn't make it better or superior than ours.

Why don't they learn to talk like us?

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2005, 12:48:42 AM »
you can play ball and have an education.
pick up a book or even a newspaper.

thats all i'm saying.

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2005, 12:51:57 AM »
Allyuh eh get mih point yet.
Fishs may not be a word, but who de f** k cares.
These men do not make their living by being interviewed and then having trini men who went to big school editing and criticising what they say.
So what if they can not speak how you want them to, who the f**k make you their speak angel?
These guys were not as prvileged as many of you who are criticising how they speak,
but instead of picking up guns and robbing they took their god given talent and not just make a living out of it but also had all of us jumping for joy.
So if you feel embarassed by how they speak, then you are prejudiced and should learn some lessons in humility.


That is just it you have no point.
We not just in we little fishbowl we call Trinidad or even the Caribbean this is the world stage.
We want to go and give a good showing in out football and culture.
You talking assness bout they does play football and bull girls. Like it or not they are going to be ambassadors to Trinidad and if you happy with Trinidad being represented as a place where people sound like uneducated people well I am not.

This is have nothing to do with judging people cause they didnt go to the Fatima and Saints. Stern John didnt go to no "prestge school" but he handles himself well infront of the camera.


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Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2005, 12:58:22 AM »

We hadda agree to disagree here I guess.  I stand firm saying that Trinidad dialect is in no way inferior to standard English.  As a result, if the players speak "Trini" I have absolutely no problem with that. That is who we are.  So if someone says, "The onliest thing we didn't do is score five!"  I good with that. 

I do not think that speaking standard English is "better" or constitutes "self improvement" as you said as well.  Why?  Because just because it is theirs doesn't make it better or superior than ours.

Why don't they learn to talk like us?


that is settling for mediocrity for me
we better than that

There is a time and place for everything and everything has it's place.

Onliest is for the rum shop after sweat.

Dialect for me is like this

Reporter: So X how did you play today.

X: Well we played good we just didn't put the ball in the back of the net

Reporter: So what is your predictions for the next game

X We will win 2-0 is goals like rain we go buss them up


all that good
a lil colloquialism at the end for emphasis

when yuh whole interview sounding like yuh cyah even read the no smoking sign on the plane on the way to Germany then we in ah bad way


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Offline Jahyouth

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2005, 01:07:39 AM »
Allyuh eh get mih point yet.
Fishs may not be a word, but who de f** k cares.
These men do not make their living by being interviewed and then having trini men who went to big school editing and criticising what they say.
So what if they can not speak how you want them to, who the f**k make you their speak angel?
These guys were not as prvileged as many of you who are criticising how they speak,
but instead of picking up guns and robbing they took their god given talent and not just make a living out of it but also had all of us jumping for joy.
So if you feel embarassed by how they speak, then you are prejudiced and should learn some lessons in humility.


That is just it you have no point.
We not just in we little fishbowl we call Trinidad or even the Caribbean this is the world stage.
We want to go and give a good showing in out football and culture.
You talking assness bout they does play football and bull girls. Like it or not they are going to be ambassadors to Trinidad and if you happy with Trinidad being represented as a place where people sound like uneducated people well I am not.

This is have nothing to do with judging people cause they didnt go to the Fatima and Saints. Stern John didnt go to no "prestge school" but he handles himself well infront of the camera.

I cannot argue with you because your argument is flawed.  Why? Because you equate speaking Trinidadian dialect with as you say sounding "like uneducated people".  I on the other hand am secure in saying that Trinidadian dialect is as good as anything else.  So we will never see eye to eye on this issue.


Offline TriniCana

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2005, 01:08:05 AM »
Education and Game vs Game

age 22-28 playing ball in the savannah or even reached to the stadium....money flowing.  You are the best or should I say "bestest" in the team cause you playing ball with all the skills in the world.  That's all you have going mind you.

Emergency; doctors say un-repairable, son you can't play ball again.  

Sirs, end this story for me, what does this 22-2 have to fall back on ?  




Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2005, 01:13:52 AM »
ONLIEST


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Offline fishs

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2005, 01:25:50 AM »
Disgruntled:
De man that picks up rubbish and takes so much pride in what he does that there is nobody better than him at that, is in my opinion a star, similarly the english professor that edits dictionaries that says " fishs" is not a word should be applauded.
But neither of them are playing football for a living and more than likely neither of them speak the same way.
What you want is that these guys do not make you personally shame when they speak to the international media and you might have to explain to your illustrious circle of acquaintances.
What you want etc outside of football and normal human behavior is really of no consequence to the national footballer who grew up in Fyzabad and had to help his parents work in the garden before he went to school at an early age and then found that school was not as important to him as playing football to the best of his ability and then making a living out of it. And yes bulling woman for a man is important, with his fame and fortune he gets exposed to a lot more than you or I would in our mediocrity but excellent speaking english lives.
So I guess if you can not understand that then turn off the volume.
Ah want de woman on de bass

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2005, 08:50:26 AM »
I understand your feelings regarding the way the players may speak, but saying dat is de way we does talk is not an excuse for lack of self improvement.


bossman, this is exactly what I am saying.  You see the word you just use: self improvement.  So talking like them makes you better as an individual?  I guess them French black players having the hair straight straight like Drogba is self improement too then cause they looking more like them?

Love yourself boss.  You well shakle.

fella you are equating ethnicity to education?

come on man.

How can you say that I am shackled?

Education is a key that unlocks many doors.

When a man is educated he will do his best to communicate to an international audience in a manner they can all understand.

Please do not for one minute feel that Whitley and those guys do NOT want to speak properly.

It is becasue they are not properly educated that prevents them.

That said, I reiterate, many love our colourful speech.

And for the record education does make you a better man in many respects.  While it may not help a person with morality, ethics etc.  it helps the man understand his relationship to others and vice versa,

When Papa Doc had Haitians in fear and superstition he easily manipulated.

please dont equate education with morality although there is some commonality.

You are as proud as I am of my trininess and all that entails, yet you can communicate well to show that you are not I used Standard English to show yall that it eh no jackass talking and supporting the use of Trindadian dialect.  Is ah educated brother.

I rest my case

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2005, 11:07:36 AM »
 :applause: :applause:

cheers on dat truetrini :beermug:

Offline fari

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2005, 11:16:14 AM »
i like how this debate is going, let me fan the flames some more.  this is an interview w/ Dog on the bbc, let's see what people think of it.  did he sound good/ bad?  did he use trini dialect/standard english?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/default.stm#

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2005, 11:23:32 AM »
i like how this debate is going, let me fan the flames some more.  this is an interview w/ Dog on the bbc, let's see what people think of it.  did he sound good/ bad?  did he use trini dialect/standard english?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/default.stm#

now that I consider, is good standard english from a trinidadian.

very good  interview by the way
what is marvin's level of education ?

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2005, 11:43:35 AM »

When a man is educated he will do his best to communicate to an international audience in a manner they can all understand.



Jahyouth read that line over!!!

yuh really think an internationl audience will understand what them fellas saying
yuh done know the closeminded already and feel we swinging from trees and we eh have no roads and thing
I think it will auger well if we can at least speak properly and communicate well with an international audience


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Offline Marcos

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2005, 12:25:08 PM »
i teach college level spanish, you should hear the questions the students ask: what language ya'll speak? is trinidad in africa? steupsssssssss

I remember congregating verbs in Secondary School and using the Vamos Amigos text.  Have you used this before?

conjugate?


marocs,
yuh not easy..yuh know what de man mean.
\

haha
jus givin him a lil pressure like meh boy fihlo
Nothing pisses me off more than racism, and ppl who you know that act like they don't know you.

Offline Benchwarmer

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2005, 12:35:59 PM »
It is simple.....
We not asking them to go back to school for a few years. We are jus asking them to improve a little so that they can be good ambassadors to our country. Shaka lead the charge against racism in England because he was a good spokeperson. We not talking about dialect or accent, but when to use what. People feel in the "prestige" schools the children  talk proper english.
NO
But we know when to change and how to change.
WE all about showing our differences, but not that we cant speak.
That would validate the ingorance of others.
" Yuh hear the trinidadian speak?   Don't worry,is a third world country, it expected.

When yuh discussing this, all you have to think about is one person.

Chanderpaul

then hear Sarwarn speak.  Talent is no excuse for education.


Offline JDB

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2005, 01:00:54 PM »
I do not think that speaking standard English is "better" or constitutes "self improvement" as you said as well.  Why?  Because just because it is theirs doesn't make it better or superior than ours.

Why don't they learn to talk like us?

That last sentence is the reason why your argument will fall apart.

How will they "learn to talk like us"

Our dialect does have rules and a common structure but it is also different from place to place and even from sentence to sentence it is mixed with standard english to different degrees.

It is not standardized and as such it is not reasonable to expect other people to learn it. We teach standard english so that has to be the benchmark for communication. Our dialect is a beautiful thing and it is preserved in various artforms but until we make a conscious decision to make it an official language, standardize rules etc. it is not a useful form of communication to non Trinidadians.

Remember it isn't just other english speakers. Americans and Brits can decipher our language just as we can with Jamaicans, but how do you expect people who learn English as a second language, by rules more than practice, to understand what we are saying?

It doesn't make sense to be so proud of our dialect that we don't get our message across, unless the message is that we are insular and don't really care if people understand us.
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Offline greenpea

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #76 on: November 22, 2005, 02:15:59 PM »
yeah dialect is one thing
and I doh thnk we sould lose that cause that is who defines us as a people
I doh really rate Yorke with that English accent cause Shaka they just as long and he eh lose his
that aside

Bad English is just something that cannot go on on the world stage
when them fellas open they mouth I does cringe at what might come out

I remember some months ago I see Junir Gong on 106 and park and I tell meh self boy, yuh know how them Jamaican does talk like they never went to school
and to my surprise the man is very well spoken
eloquent and answer everything to the point in he Jamaican accent

so if he could do it who is we

yuh know de bottom line is that people understand each other.... if you couldn't get past these guys then you would have died in the claude noel era.... if you listen to the english football interviews you would probably be aghast (hope de spelling right) cause a lot of those guys speak pretty bad english... but bottom line is , this is who we are and you can't be all things to all people , so love  yourself and take pride in de boys... dey representing us with all their faults imagined or otherwise..... jeez, yuh mean it wasn't enough that we make de WC06 --- yuh wanted us to make it with scholars???? ... take it or leave it, who vex lorse...  :chilling:

Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #77 on: November 22, 2005, 02:23:51 PM »
So why do Jamaicans speak more standard english when they are on the international stage.  They have a dialect that in my opinion is even more colloquial than ours.  They know when to switch up and speak so that the masses (internationally) get their message.  One of the reasons that Bob Marely has such an international appeal is because his diction was very good.  That's the point I'm getting at.  But men feel we saying that our players should not speak the dialect.  The dialect will never die, if that's what men are afraid about.  This is not about national identity; it's about being able to communicate with the rest of the world.

Offline greenpea

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #78 on: November 22, 2005, 02:30:38 PM »
Education and Game vs Game

age 22-28 playing ball in the savannah or even reached to the stadium....money flowing.  You are the best or should I say "bestest" in the team cause you playing ball with all the skills in the world.  That's all you have going mind you.

Emergency; doctors say un-repairable, son you can't play ball again.  

Sirs, end this story for me, what does this 22-2 have to fall back on ?  



How allyuh sounding like young-uns so..... people have the best education, making tons of money and always second guessing whether dey wouldn't be happier back home in tnt just conversing in we talk. you watching some breddas who perform the impossible an you stuydying dat these guys not representing us proper... brother better yuh kneel down an' pray dat god give yuh some of de happiness dat them fellas share through their achievements!!! an if dey end up broke.... believe me dey go be de talk ah de rumshop... but they will have seen things that you and i will never see and done things you and i will never do, for sure dey getting de love of 99.95% of TNT... if you happy with your education and your superior football skills all kudos to you... but doh seek to dilute the achievements of these breddas by belittling their skills in de education department... I'll bet allyuh is pan expert too....  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:  :chilling: somebody call AWATT ah ready to join up...

Offline greenpea

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #79 on: November 22, 2005, 02:48:48 PM »
I understand your feelings regarding the way the players may speak, but saying dat is de way we does talk is not an excuse for lack of self improvement.


bossman, this is exactly what I am saying.  You see the word you just use: self improvement.  So talking like them makes you better as an individual?  I guess them French black players having the hair straight straight like Drogba is self improement too then cause they looking more like them?

Love yourself boss.  You well shakle.


Education is a key that unlocks many doors.

You are as proud as I am of my trininess and all that entails, yet you can communicate well to show that you are not I used Standard English to show yall that it eh no jackass talking and supporting the use of Trindadian dialect.  Is ah educated brother.

I rest my case

1) Education should rightly unlock doors.... doors like pride, discrimination and poor judgement... but if i may opine on your discourse i would mention that the more well educated among us have a responsibility to understand others rather than try to change others to be more like ourselves.

2) consider the case of a footballer speaking excellent spanish, italian, portuguese or french. What difference does that make to me.... you flatter yourself that the world is like you my friend... time to get ah real education...  :chilling:

3) I tell people that smart people do and say stupid (or chupid) things all de time... nuttin wrong wid dat... show me an educated brother and i'll show you a man who's going to make a mistake...  :chilling:

truetrini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2005, 03:12:08 PM »
I understand your feelings regarding the way the players may speak, but saying dat is de way we does talk is not an excuse for lack of self improvement.


bossman, this is exactly what I am saying.  You see the word you just use: self improvement.  So talking like them makes you better as an individual?  I guess them French black players having the hair straight straight like Drogba is self improement too then cause they looking more like them?

Love yourself boss.  You well shakle.


Education is a key that unlocks many doors.

You are as proud as I am of my trininess and all that entails, yet you can communicate well to show that you are not I used Standard English to show yall that it eh no jackass talking and supporting the use of Trindadian dialect.  Is ah educated brother.

I rest my case

1) Education should rightly unlock doors.... doors like pride, discrimination and poor judgement... but if i may opine on your discourse i would mention that the more well educated among us have a responsibility to understand others rather than try to change others to be more like ourselves.

2) consider the case of a footballer speaking excellent spanish, italian, portuguese or french. What difference does that make to me.... you flatter yourself that the world is like you my friend... time to get ah real education...  :chilling:

3) I tell people that smart people do and say stupid (or chupid) things all de time... nuttin wrong wid dat... show me an educated brother and i'll show you a man who's going to make a mistake...  :chilling:

yuh could opine, yuh cud unwine and yuh could jes plain wine.

Education is not simply learning ting from ah book!

dat is your definition i could only imagine.

If not fuh educated men slavery woulda still be rampant.

steups.

show me an educated man and I show yuh ah easy mark.

a fool and his money are soon parted.

where are all the millions dem boxers and dem make during the course ah dem pugilisitic careers?

smartmen done take it all.


Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #81 on: November 22, 2005, 03:39:52 PM »



Socrates first called up to the National squad when he was 25, and gained 63 caps.
At club level, he played for Botafogo, Corinthians, Fiorentina Flamengo and finaly Santos, where he finished his career in 1990.

Socrates continued his medical education whilst playing top class football, and has gone on to become a Doctor.



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Offline greenpea

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #82 on: November 22, 2005, 03:55:11 PM »



Socrates first called up to the National squad when he was 25, and gained 63 caps.
At club level, he played for Botafogo, Corinthians, Fiorentina Flamengo and finaly Santos, where he finished his career in 1990.

Socrates continued his medical education whilst playing top class football, and has gone on to become a Doctor.



All ah dat de man do an he couldn't speak a lick ah tntian dialect, wine down to de ground or differentiate between a cascadoo in a doubles from a shark an bake on maracas beach... know de difference between divali an' eid.... poor fella probably never hit maracas or went up paramin for a lime... never taste a point ting......  never hear bout sparrow, kitch, blueboy, maestro.... pelau, callaloo, roti/buss up shut... please ah could go on an' on..... one man education is a 'nudder man headache... to each his own an' respect to all...  doh ever feel de breddas not educated... remember, commonsense come before book sense......   :chilling:

truetrini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #83 on: November 22, 2005, 03:57:04 PM »
man talking about formal education...you talking about cultural experiences.

two different things fella.

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #84 on: November 22, 2005, 04:02:08 PM »
Education and Game vs Game

age 22-28 playing ball in the savannah or even reached to the stadium....money flowing.  You are the best or should I say "bestest" in the team cause you playing ball with all the skills in the world.  That's all you have going mind you.

Emergency; doctors say un-repairable, son you can't play ball again.  

Sirs, end this story for me, what does this 22-2 have to fall back on ?  



How allyuh sounding like young-uns so..... people have the best education, making tons of money and always second guessing whether dey wouldn't be happier back home in tnt just conversing in we talk. you watching some breddas who perform the impossible an you stuydying dat these guys not representing us proper... brother better yuh kneel down an' pray dat god give yuh some of de happiness dat them fellas share through their achievements!!! an if dey end up broke.... believe me dey go be de talk ah de rumshop... but they will have seen things that you and i will never see and done things you and i will never do, for sure dey getting de love of 99.95% of TNT... if you happy with your education and your superior football skills all kudos to you... but doh seek to dilute the achievements of these breddas by belittling their skills in de education department... I'll bet allyuh is pan expert too....  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:  :chilling: somebody call AWATT ah ready to join up...


What ? oh shit sorry.... I mean  Eh ?


Offline kicker

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #85 on: November 22, 2005, 04:12:34 PM »



Socrates first called up to the National squad when he was 25, and gained 63 caps.
At club level, he played for Botafogo, Corinthians, Fiorentina Flamengo and finaly Santos, where he finished his career in 1990.

Socrates continued his medical education whilst playing top class football, and has gone on to become a Doctor.



All ah dat de man do an he couldn't speak a lick ah tntian dialect, wine down to de ground or differentiate between a cascadoo in a doubles from a shark an bake on maracas beach... know de difference between divali an' eid.... poor fella probably never hit maracas or went up paramin for a lime... never taste a point ting......  never hear bout sparrow, kitch, blueboy, maestro.... pelau, callaloo, roti/buss up shut... please ah could go on an' on..... one man education is a 'nudder man headache... to each his own an' respect to all...  doh ever feel de breddas not educated... remember, commonsense come before book sense......   :chilling:

Greenpea

He's Brazilian......poor example.........

If you could comment on his experience with "grassroots" Brazilian culture, then you might have a point........otherwise you're spewing irrelevance.

p.s. Don't over-rate common sense. It's the year 2005.......common sense by itself eh gettin' yuh no where.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 04:15:48 PM by kicker »
Live life 90 minutes at a time....Football is life.......

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #86 on: November 22, 2005, 04:13:50 PM »
man talking about formal education...you talking about cultural experiences.

two different things fella.


cause Brasil (BRAHZIL according to them same warriors and the rest of Trinidad) have no culture, they have no indigenous food or sweet woman as well
and doh ask for beach WHAT BEACH

pigeonopea I mean greenpea think before yuh open yuh mouth eh
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 04:15:30 PM by Disgruntled_Trini »


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Offline greenpea

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #87 on: November 22, 2005, 04:25:33 PM »
man talking about formal education...you talking about cultural experiences.

two different things fella.

wish someone could explain why fellas  doh understand that 'the more yuh learn is de more yuh realize is de less yuh know'.... this lil idea goes a long way to building humbleness...  then people could also grasp this concept.... education is relative because as well educated as some of us are in this forum we pale intellectually to others with whom we engage... so the idea of thinking that breddas should speak better to represent trinidad is moot because in someone's eyes somewhere we ourselves fall short... but i'll bet that idea seems really foreign.... better we say dem fellas should practice free kick an' corners ( related to football) rather than buck up on their shakespeare..... ah never know formal education stood by itself; de way i know it is yuh respect de knowledge any man bring to de table and yuh use dat knowledge to achieve a goal, an who could help good... who just stand at de side an' criticize... well, not so good...  :chilling:

Offline scarface

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #88 on: November 22, 2005, 04:37:52 PM »
anybody think we should send them fellas on ah lil English Speaking course before the world cup

I listening to Theobald interview tonight and the man using words like "Onliest" amongst others

now how it go look them fellas reach Germany and ah man push ah camera infront he or some next warrior face and them kind ah words coming out

Scott Sealy could speak though


scott must be able to speak good, he come out ah big school like CIC!!

Offline greenpea

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Re: Remedial School
« Reply #89 on: November 22, 2005, 04:44:04 PM »
cm'on guys keep up.... its almost like the root issue here is that people don't respect our own culture... lets talk better english... why? to be more english... lets be like this or like that... why? because we doh like what happening in TNT... we're developing a culture... OUR own culture even as we engage in this forum.... this culture will develop for years to come as OUR own experience in diversity and  TNT culture. Plenty places have beach but not our beach..... its different and that difference COUNTS... knowledge of that difference counts to others more than it counts with us because we take what we have for granted. IF WE CANNOT LOVE AND RESPECT PEOPLE TALKING TRINI WITH GREEN VERB etc then we are far from understanding the same people and de problems we dealing with. somebody mus be really fooling somebody if dey could say i'll be embarrased because dem fellas talk bad... cause i won't be embarrased ... buh den i could only speak fuh miself...  :chilling: