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Author Topic: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?  (Read 4583 times)

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Offline ssalazar

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Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« on: November 22, 2005, 06:50:00 AM »
Hey Folks;
    Looking back at last week's euphoria of TNT reaching the world cup finals is nothing short of a Miracle.Out of over 200 teams that participated during the past 2 years we are among the top 32.In 1989,when 24 teams were vying for that place not as many countries were in the mix back then.You gotta remember that now,for e.g,the Soviet Union now consist of several nations.Maybe 1989 was meant to be.Remember Mexico was banned in participating because,as far as i can remember,the Mexican youth squad had overaged players and FIFA imposed a penalty,i.e non participation of the Senior mexico squad to vie for the 1990 World Cup finals in Italy.In other words,had Mexico participated back then ,knowing that there were onlly 2 teams to qualify from Concacaf,It would have been Mexico and Costa Rica going to Italy instead of Costa Rica and the USA.
   Anyway folks my main Question is this;How would you all compare Jamaica's qualification for the World cup in 1998 compare to that of TNT going next year.As you know there were some similarities between the two teams.Both TNT now and Jamaica back in 1997,had a rough start to the campaign.Which of the 2 teams had a more miraculous ride to the "Big Stage"?
   Lemme hear your comments on it.

Offline ANC2

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2005, 07:17:53 AM »
I would say Jamaica, simply because the path was more difficult. Our draw was favourable in the earlies, and their were only 3 places up for grabs

Offline Sam

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2005, 07:25:00 AM »
Yuh talking shit bro.... T&T by all accounts....

What make you think it was harder for Jamaica,,,, it was hard for BOTH teams.... but T&T had to play more games and atleast 4 MUST WIN (do or die) matches.. (Mex, Gua, Pan, Bahrain)... T&T have de better story....

Our coach also had it rough when he took over de team in April and transform them into a unit in months... with only 4 warm-up games.....

Whats makes our story nice is that we field 98% FULL, born and bread Trinis..... with 2 locally based players.....
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 07:28:17 AM by Sam »
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2005, 07:28:40 AM »
First of all, Let me again extend congratulations to Trinidad and Tobago on qualifying for the World Cup Finals. Any way you look at it, its a miraculous achievement. Both Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago's achievemnt came under very trying conditions. The fact that there were only 3 places up for Grabs, and managing to beat out Costa Rica for that 3rd spot tells the magnitude of the achievement for Jamaica, who at the time of qualification used a squad comprising 90% amateur players (I believe at the time of qualification only 4 UK born lower league players were in teh squad)


I know there isa ducumentary out there about Jamaica's story, and I suspect that one will be made for Trinidad as well. In the end, Caribbean football will be much more respected because of the heroics of both countries. I really do hope that Jack Warne cpntinue to fight for ONCACAF to at least hold on to that half spot, or indeed have it upgraded to a 4th automatic qualifying spot. I do believe that the likes of Haiti, and Cuba will pretty soon add to Jamaica and Triniad who will no doubt put pressure on USA/MEX/CRC for world cup berths in teh region. Believe me, the likes of Guatemala, El Salvador, etc have nothing over Jamaica/T&T/Haiti/CUBA
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 07:35:03 AM by Reggaefan »

Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2005, 07:30:37 AM »
Yuh talking shit bro.... T&T by all accounts....

What make you think it was harder for Jamaica,,,, it was hard for BOTH teams.... but T&T had to play more games and atleast 4 MUST WIN (do or die) matches.. (Mex, Gua, Pan, Bahrain)... T&T have de better story....

Our coach also had it rough when he took over de team in April and transform them into a unit in months... with only 4 warm-up games.....

Whats makes our story nice is that we field 98% FULL, born and bread Trinis..... with 2 locally based players.....

Oh God Sam, can you stop thinking out of your ass for a moment?
It was difficult for both teams to make it! and both did an excellent job in finally getting the job done. Caribbean football is the winer in the end.

Offline Sam

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2005, 07:37:12 AM »
RF, I did say it was hard for both teams.... is de story behind de Warriors that makes it special for us....

But nuff respect to BOTH teams...... I remember RF righting off T&T chances de other day and had much love for Panama... (hahahahah).... he taught Panama was de dark horse in de race because they buss Jamaica ass in de Office,,,, when all this time it was T&T.............  :rotfl:

I feel Caribbean teams will be a big threat to Central American and Canadian teams....

Trust meh...

Haiti, Cuba, T&T and Jamaica will run things in 2010.... not to mention team like Grenada, Suriname, Netherland Antlies, Barbados, St Lucia, St Vincent and St Kitts could pull off some suprises at home....

Panama, El Salvador, Guatemala, Canada and maybe Costa Rica & Honduras will have to watch their asses...

I also believe that we give to must respect to USA and MEX,,, if we really dig into our hearts and have a good coach I am sure we could beat them especially at home....
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 07:53:08 AM by Flex »
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Offline Sam

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2005, 07:57:49 AM »
Whats make this feeling good...

The teams and fans who had NO RESPECT for T&T (Panama in 2001 & 2005,,,, Bahrain,,,,, Guatemala was done booking tickets to Germany,,,, and Canada who taught T&T was a walk in de park in 2001) was all knock the fack out by T&T in 2005 and 2001. I remember thenm Canadians coming on de board and using racsis remarks about the Trinis living in Canada, it had reached that far...

What the future holds I dont know, but I am enjoying this all de way to Germany and back....

De point is, I respect every team we play, from St Vincent to Mexico, I just wish we had the same respect....
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 08:01:40 AM by Flex »
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Offline Small Magician aka Wazza

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2005, 08:00:20 AM »
both teams had drama on the last day  jamaica needed U.S.A to lose and den jamaica to draw with mexico
usa lost and jamaica held a mexico under 23 0-0   dey had a lot of luck there

but we beat mexico and guatemala won   we made our own luck

so therefore TnT own was better   

Offline JDB

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2005, 08:47:55 AM »
The man say better Cinderalla story.

Rags to Riches. By that measure alone it has to be TnT.
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Offline FF

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2005, 08:52:13 AM »
IN 1989 MEXICO WAS SCHEDULED TO PLAY A HOME AND AWAY ELIMINATION WITH COSTA RICA

Therefore... if they were not disqualified it would have been EITHER Mexico or Costa Rica in de final round NOT BOTH
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Offline Hyperhot J

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2005, 08:59:06 AM »
   Reggae Fan or who ever can one of you all please enlighten me as to the games Jamaica played in order to get into the 98 WC. Did they have 4 MUST win games, etc. and who did they play and beat etc. to get in. It is only then I will be able to really compare, I eh have time to look it up myself right now.

Thank you,

J.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power." 

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Offline Pointman

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2005, 09:18:46 AM »
Good morning forumites and fellow warriors...and even haters.

Easily it is Trinidad and Tobago's road to the WC that is more compelling(not to take away anything from Ja being there). Going from almost last in the group and having to play teams that had beaten us before...with Guat putting some serious licks on us and Mex beating us in the two prior games...who would have thought that we would have pulled it off. Not to mention having to play more games and travel across the globe for another game...come on. definitely T&T journey is more of a Cinderella story.
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Offline JDB

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2005, 09:32:03 AM »
   Reggae Fan or who ever can one of you all please enlighten me as to the games Jamaica played in order to get into the 98 WC. Did they have 4 MUST win games, etc. and who did they play and beat etc. to get in. It is only then I will be able to really compare, I eh have time to look it up myself right now.

Thank you,

J.

JA Hex Results from 1998 - Courtesy FIFA.com

02-MAR-97 KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:USA  0:0    
13-APR-97 MEXICO CITY        Mexico:Jamaica    6:0 (3:0)    
27-APR-97 VANCOUVER         Canada:Jamaica  0:0    
11-MAY-97 SAN JOSE    Â          Costa Rica:Jamaica 3:1 (1:0)    
18-MAY-97 KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:El Salvador 1:0 (1:0)    
07-SEP-97  KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:Canada 1:0 (0:0)    
14-SEP-97  KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:Costa Rica 1:0 (0:0)    
03-OCT-97 WASHINGTON DC   USA:Jamaica 1:1 (0:0)    
09-NOV-97 SAN SALVADOR     El Salvador:Jamaica    2:2 (0:0)    
16-NOV-97 KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:Mexico     0:0    

Won 3 Drawn 5 Lost 2


« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 09:42:33 AM by JDB »
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Offline palos

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2005, 09:53:41 AM »
   Reggae Fan or who ever can one of you all please enlighten me as to the games Jamaica played in order to get into the 98 WC. Did they have 4 MUST win games, etc. and who did they play and beat etc. to get in. It is only then I will be able to really compare, I eh have time to look it up myself right now.

Thank you,

J.

JA Hex Results from 1998 - Courtesy FIFA.com

02-MAR-97 KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:USA  0:0    
13-APR-97 MEXICO CITY        Mexico:Jamaica    6:0 (3:0)    
27-APR-97 VANCOUVER         Canada:Jamaica  0:0    
11-MAY-97 SAN JOSE    Â          Costa Rica:Jamaica 3:1 (1:0)    
18-MAY-97 KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:El Salvador 1:0 (1:0)    
07-SEP-97  KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:Canada 1:0 (0:0)    
14-SEP-97  KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:Costa Rica 1:0 (0:0)    
03-OCT-97 WASHINGTON DC   USA:Jamaica 1:1 (0:0)    
09-NOV-97 SAN SALVADOR     El Salvador:Jamaica    2:2 (0:0)    
16-NOV-97 KINGSTON    Â          Jamaica:Mexico     0:0    

Won 3 Drawn 5 Lost 2




WOW.  Didin't realise dat.  Jamaica almost pull a "Bahrain" dey....Draw dey way to de world cup.  Big up to dey achievement still. 
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Ponnoxx

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2005, 09:58:36 AM »
 palos say the pull a 'Bahrain' :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ....anyhow I can't really remember Jamaica's journey but i will always remember ours....Go T&T

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2005, 10:00:49 AM »
Jamaica's qualification illustrates what you should do at home!

In de office they were unbeatable!

Offline Hyperhot J

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2005, 10:19:01 AM »
   Well we were unbeatable and actually all win-able when Beenie came on!! We should have won against Costa Rica instead of a 0-0 draw and against Bahrain we played like we did not know what was going on, but other than that we were absolutely great at home, and definitely let us never have any more blasted games in the damn Oval again. It was a hard luck against the US, I think we deserved a draw.

In terms of JA, they drawing 1-1 with the US there, and maybe beating CR 1-0 at home is the ONLY thing that makes them look ok. However they are not comparable to our 3-2 and 2-1 wins against Guat. and Mex. our 1-0 against Panama there, and of course travelling around the globe and winning 1-0 against Bahrain.

It's official, our Warriors are the best success story to the World Cup at least and definitely for a Caribbean team. Yeah yeah!

J.
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2005, 10:22:30 AM »
jamaica held a mexico under 23 0-0   dey had a lot of luck there

I was in the national stadium when that game was played, and unless you regard men like Carlos Hermosillo, Garcia Aspe, Alves Zague etc as under-23, then you are wrong in your assessment that Mexico sent an under-23 team. Game was even, both teams created their fair amount of chances. Jamaica at one stage was bottom of the Hex, and turned things around with 3 successive victories over El Slavador, Costa Rica, and then Canada, all at home, and all of the goals scored by Deon Burton. That was the turning point of the campaign. Remember also that Jamaica's qualification was based mainly in part due to its very solid defence, as the core fo the team were built around 5 at the back including a sweeper, and a packed midfield of sometimes 4 players, and one striker at times. Quite contrast from the Trinidad team.  Cargill was the oldest player in teh squad, at 34, and he had just returned from a semi-pro stint in Israel, he played holding midfield role very welll, and brought stability to the middle. The Jamaica's squad at the time, was comprised in the main of amateur players drawn from the local NPL, Walter Boyd was playing in the USA at the time, and then we had Burton, Hall, Simpson and later Earle coming along from the UB40 clan. The entire defensive unit was comprised of amateur players, including the GK, Warren Barret. Simoes at the time was virtually unknown in world football circles, although he held coaching jobs of the Brazilian under-20's prior. I believe also that Jamaica was ranked around 102 by FIFA when Simoes took over, and subsequently went on to win FIFA's Most improved team for the year, after jumping to # 29 on the fifa list, some 60 odd places up. and like Trinidad, we were at the time the smallest nation in terms of area to have made the word cup. During Jamaica's campaign, there was alot of disagreements between players, and I also recall the UK based players expressing their displeasure at the players residence not having AC units to keep them cool. There were disputes about pay and stuff like that. I recall also Rene Simoes and some journalist getting into a fist fight while in Honduras, and who will forget that infamous brawl with the Toros Nesa team in Mexico city. Also, the whole story of Onandi Lowe who was given a life ban after his alleged walking off the field during the 6-0 defeat to Mexico in te Azteca, only for him to be re-instated in time for the World Cup finals, following Jack Warner's intervention. Grab a hold of the ducumentary that was produced, as well as Robbie Earles "One Love" book, which documents all that happened during Jamaica's journey to the world cup. I wait for Triniadad's version to be released.






« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 11:00:07 AM by Reggaefan »

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2005, 10:26:03 AM »
Jamaica and jamaicans have every reason to be proud of that team.  I followed their exploits as if I were Jakan and they did very, very well.

Offline JDB

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2005, 10:34:20 AM »
   Well we were unbeatable and actually all win-able when Beenie came on!! We should have won against Costa Rica instead of a 0-0 draw and against Bahrain we played like we did not know what was going on, but other than that we were absolutely great at home, and definitely let us never have any more blasted games in the damn Oval again. It was a hard luck against the US, I think we deserved a draw.

In terms of JA, they drawing 1-1 with the US there, and maybe beating CR 1-0 at home is the ONLY thing that makes them look ok. However they are not comparable to our 3-2 and 2-1 wins against Guat. and Mex. our 1-0 against Panama there, and of course travelling around the globe and winning 1-0 against Bahrain.

It's official, our Warriors are the best success story to the World Cup at least and definitely for a Caribbean team. Yeah yeah!

J.

You can't take away so much from the men man. They did well.

I only think that ours is a better story because it was more dramatic. We fire a coach where as JA was the culmination of a good long term plan.

We also had two prodigal sons returning, one at the last minute) and the one and only Stern John to support, which at times is like being in an abusive relationship (beat meh but doh leave meh).

In the last four games we had the redemption of our defence, with them giving up only 3 goals in 4 games, a far cry from what they were doing early on.
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Offline greenpea

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2005, 10:41:12 AM »
Jamaica and jamaicans have every reason to be proud of that team.  I followed their exploits as if I were Jakan and they did very, very well.


Funnily enough i was pretty proud of Jamaica as well.... wished we had first dibs but you snooze you lose.... people need to see past their backyard and support the Caribbean as a whole and the exploits of nations on a separate basis as necessary. There really is no better or worse because we all won with Jamaica and we all win with Trinidad.... if yuh brother get a good payday an you turn around and get a good payday, an both brothers work hard and deserve it then is beers all around.... i happy for them an' them happy for we... zero tolerance for separationists... everybody have a choice...  :chilling: disclaimer... kids will be eligible to play for Trinidad,Jamaica,USA..... figure that out!!

Offline Pointman

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2005, 10:43:57 AM »
   Well we were unbeatable and actually all win-able when Beenie came on!! We should have won against Costa Rica instead of a 0-0 draw and against Bahrain we played like we did not know what was going on, but other than that we were absolutely great at home, and definitely let us never have any more blasted games in the damn Oval again. It was a hard luck against the US, I think we deserved a draw.

In terms of JA, they drawing 1-1 with the US there, and maybe beating CR 1-0 at home is the ONLY thing that makes them look ok. However they are not comparable to our 3-2 and 2-1 wins against Guat. and Mex. our 1-0 against Panama there, and of course travelling around the globe and winning 1-0 against Bahrain.

It's official, our Warriors are the best success story to the World Cup at least and definitely for a Caribbean team. Yeah yeah!

J.

You can't take away so much from the men man. They did well.

I only think that ours is a better story because it was more dramatic. We fire a coach where as JA was the culmination of a good long term plan.

We also had two prodigal sons returning, one at the last minute) and the one and only Stern John to support, which at times is like being in an abusive relationship (beat meh but doh leave meh).

In the last four games we had the redemption of our defence, with them giving up only 3 goals in 4 games, a far cry from what they were doing early on.

 :rotfl: "beat meh but doh leave meh."

both countries have a lot of points to back up their claim as "better Cinderella story". We'll await our film documentary, It'll be a good one.
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Offline FF

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2005, 10:49:02 AM »
disclaimer... kids will be eligible to play for Trinidad,Jamaica,USA..... figure that out!!


My nephew too... he better pick Trinidad  >:(
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Offline JDB

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2005, 10:51:02 AM »

 :rotfl: "beat meh but doh leave meh."


But that is what it does be like backing Stern.

Everytime yuh say "Nah I ent taking no more horn/licks etc"

He does come and give yuh a sweet eye and a pinch bumsee and make yuh feel good with a goal, telling yuh how much he love yuh.

Try as yuh might yuh can't help but back him still.
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Offline Trini

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2005, 10:52:02 AM »
It was a fantastic achievement for both nations, different circumstances and times, so u cant compare it like that.
What I do know for sure is that qualifying for Germany means more for the people of T&T than for Ja people when Ja qualified for France.
They literally came out of nowhere and stunned everyone and reached in their first real serious attempt.
Yes there was euphoria and it was a real nice run and story.
But TT has a very heartbreaking history of near misses. I dont think anyone in world football has missed out like we did on those 2 previous occasions..
No one but a Trini could understand what it meant to finally slay those ghosts of being cheated and also failing at the last hurdle....

Offline Pointman

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2005, 11:13:29 AM »
It was a fantastic achievement for both nations, different circumstances and times, so u cant compare it like that.
What I do know for sure is that qualifying for Germany means more for the people of T&T than for Ja people when Ja qualified for France.
They literally came out of nowhere and stunned everyone and reached in their first real serious attempt.
Yes there was euphoria and it was a real nice run and story.
But TT has a very heartbreaking history of near misses. I dont think anyone in world football has missed out like we did on those 2 previous occasions..
No one but a Trini could understand what it meant to finally slay those ghosts of being cheated and also failing at the last hurdle....

very good point Trini, dis WC run can't really be told without including the '73 campaign as well as '89. '73 being no fault of our own(we did what we were supposed to do) it was stolen from us. '89 was in our hands and we let it slip thru.
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Offline JDB

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2005, 11:19:14 AM »
Yeah good point Trini.

The 1973 and 1989 campaigns and the 16 year parallels add real significance to our qualification.
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Offline rippin

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2005, 11:23:57 AM »
Yeah good point Trini.

The 1973 and 1989 campaigns and the 16 year parallels add real significance to our qualification.

As said by JDB i tink the 16 year cycle and the fact that we get thief in 73 carry it over. It is alos the crowning of men like Yorke and Latapy career. This was it. Yorke win plenty and never went to the big dance. Typical trini he and latas wait last minute. I think Stern story is a big part ah the drama. When men wanted he head the most he give them 2 goal. The hire and fire scenario with the coaches also kinda significant.

Honestly this is a very unfair question to put on a trini forum especially now where everybody still high from qualification. Bring it back in 2010 when we qualify again.
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Offline trinidad badboy

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2005, 11:24:52 AM »

i would say tnt.

wee stared out no so good and ppl were already planning for the next qualifiers in 4 years.

then our team changed up so much. pll that started qualifying games werent seen anymore.

latapy came back into the mix.

then we had a 1-1 draw in trinidad and had a must win game to play in bahrain.


we have never got so much televised publicity for soccer.

we were on fox sports and all over the world was watching our game.




Offline ssalazar

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Re: Which Team had the better Cinderella story,TNT or Jamaica?
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2005, 11:36:38 AM »
I guess to make this question easier to answer is by asking it in another way,well in a two-fold type question:At the time of qualification,which of the two teams were less likely to qualify and which of the two teams were in a greater do or die situation in terms of going to the world cup?

 

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