January 17, 2021, 12:31:04 PM

Author Topic: In the PFL it is not about SPonsorship it is about Stand-on-you-own-aship  (Read 4550 times)

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Offline KND

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If you are a prosessional club and you are waiting for a sponsor to get the money to run your club you are heading for the end.


Fact is a club needs to be financially independant just like any other business.

until football in TnT learns how to have a structure that will pull in more money that they have to dish out we not going no where.

Sponsorship will all end one day and where will the club be then.

Malvern Maple Paragon all great clubs now they are a shadow of them selves

Joe Public is disappearing

On CL done sponsor Jabloteh done and when williams gone W connection done


This is not the way it should be

The Clubs need to be stand alone financial institutions to be there from generation to generation.


It starts with the members and the fans

This is where the money have to come from not sponsors.

As soon as people stop put money the PFL will fold

Why


Because the stadiums are empty!

Things that can be done to improve the situation


1) Televise at least 1 game a week to increase publicity also to provide TV revenue to the clubs.
2) Implement membership programs that involve payment of dues from youth to senior level, players and supporters alike
3) Reach out to the community and get them to commit to season tickets.
4) Extensive Fundraising.


If you have a PFL teams and all you focusing on is getting a group of players to win the league it will never work.
It is much bigger than this

Offline rocwell

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Money has to come from sponsors.  Let's take an easy example.  The Barclay's English Premier League.  When was the last time you saw a professional club side without a sponsor's brand name on it's jersey, look around the field and see ads along the side of the pitch, and on either sides of the goals.  Sponsor money is abslutely essential to maintain operations.  I agree that clubs need to be stand-alone, however this is diificult to do withut sponsors.


as for your suggestions
1.  This may be difficult to get as people are not going to games, so it may be difficult to convince the stations to broadcast them.  Though I think that at some point as the league grows, this is an inevitability.

2.  The teams are supposed to pay their players, not the other way around.  Supporters financial contibutions come in the form of gate receipts, and merchandising.

3.  I agree
4. 3 and 4 are the same.


Offline Lightning

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Can you say Barcelona?
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.


Offline JDB

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Barcelona ae obviously an exception.

In fact they make more money by not having a sponsor because they get to market their uniqueness as a club that represents the Catalan people and does not tanish the "national" colours with paid advertising.
THE WARRIORS WILL NOT BE DENIED.

Offline rocwell

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Barcelona, because of Catalonian pride, won't allow sponsor logos on their football jerseys as a matter of principle, (I believe now they allow the nike swoosh) however they do on their basketball jerseys. 

Offline KND

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Sponsorship is added money for a club. That is what I am saying.
if you need $20,000 to pay your players and $18,000 is coming from sponsor with only $2000 from gate receipts then your club will fold.

you need 20,000 from gate receipts and 20000 from sponsor to use for growth of the club and improvements.

ALl foreign clubs have sponsors yes

but they also have good sources of finances from other sources so if the sponsor does not pay they will not fold.

sponsorship should be a bonus not a necessity

Offline rocwell

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According to the Deloitte Football Money League Manchester United's income is divided as follows:
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,sid%253D70402%2526cid%253D73888,00.html

Matchday Income: €92.4 Million - 36%
Broadcasting: €94.5 Million - 36%
Commercial: €72.1m - 28%

Man U is no. 1 on the money list


Barcelona's (no. 7 ) breakdown is as follows

Matchday €57.8m - 34%
Broadcasting €66.1m 39%
Commercial €45.3m - 27%

Glasgow Rangers (no 20):

Matchday €36.6m  - 42%
Broadcasting €11.3m - 13%
Commercial €38.3m - 45%

I could go on.  In many cases gates do not even account for half the total yearly income, if one removes the the broadcasting and sponsor money the clubs will indeed fold.  (Or at least be forced to drastically scale down their operations, sell of high-salary players, etc).  Point is, sponsor money isn't a 'bonus', it's essential.

Offline football king

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rockwell you doing your homework bossman

Offline JDB

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Rocwell, that is a misleading comparison because of the size of those clubs.

If you look at the breakdown of those clubs 20, 40 or 80 years ago (when the league was more comparable to the PFL) you would see that sponsorship played a much smaller part. The clubs have grown and sponsorship and TV have boomed so as a result the clubs are now structured to take advantage of it.

Now they depend on sponsorship money, but before there was sponsorship money they depended on fan interest and gate money.

In fact if CL financial is sponsoring a team that nobody is watching they are not really getting value for their advertising dollars, they are basically being charitable and it will not be a sustainable relationship.

People sponsor big clubs because thre is competition to get your name associated with big names. You can't say the same for the PFL if some clubs are fighting to get sponsors.

Also shirt sponsorship wasn't even dreamt of before the 70's (kit manufacturer or sponsor) and games were not widely televised until the 80's, gate money is what these clubs were built on. You have to walk before yuh run.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2005, 02:09:42 PM by JDB »
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Offline rocwell

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Indeed sponsors aren't flooding into put their money into the PFL, which is why they are floundering 

 With the size of the stadia in Europe, and much lower salaries pre-1970's gate receipts could be substantial.  However, gate receipts alone are not going to sustain a pro outfit in a country the size of T&T.  As such sponsor money becomes even more essential than it is for the clubs on the aforementioned list.  t would be nice to have a club be completely self sufficient, but it's highly improbable.  Sponsors are essential.

Offline JDB

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It all comes down to the scale of the league.

Outside of the 96 league clubs in england there are a whole of of other clubs some professional in th econferences, some semi-pro. These clubs are competing for revenues with much bigger clubs not just live but on TV, yet they survive, on gates numbering in the hundreds, plus other revenues.

Maybe the PFL needs to study these teams as well as teams in Africa (Ghana, Nigeria) to see how these clubs survive and thrive. Comparing ourselves to the Premiership or even the Scottish Championship is not very useful in my opinion.
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Offline doc

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Indeed sponsors aren't flooding into put their money into the PFL, which is why they are floundering

 With the size of the stadia in Europe, and much lower salaries pre-1970's gate receipts could be substantial. However, gate receipts alone are not going to sustain a pro outfit in a country the size of T&T. As such sponsor money becomes even more essential than it is for the clubs on the aforementioned list. t would be nice to have a club be completely self sufficient, but it's highly improbable. Sponsors are essential.

So in a situation where such sponsorship isn't available, what alternatives are there? Could it be that we're looking at the wrong models :-\
Live large and prosper!

Offline KND

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Rockwell you should provide a financial breakdown of clubs in English 3rd division as I think that data would be better to compare to.

Brocasting income in TnT would be small but they should be an effort to at least get some money out of it.

commerical income is misleading because this includes not just sponsors but more importantly merchandise sales.

In england supportors buy the team jerseys.
That is a big part of the commericial income not just sponsorship.

But you see how important gate receipts is and what is most important is based on gate receipts Man U would be able to pay most of their expenses to run the team. except for the really high end expensive players

Offline JDB

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Could it be that we're looking at the wrong models :-\

See my point above. The thing is there is no guarantee that we will find a system that is dealing with the kind of apathy toward football that we have in T&T.

It might be that we are more like San Marino and Lechtenstein with a very small football paying/football caring public and we just have to give up the pro league aspirations and just train players in camps, get contracts for them in the US and England and have the rest as semi-pros/amateurs - like we used to do.

Is sounds sad but that might be the case as Joe Public and others obviously believe.
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Offline maxg

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Guys, Consider the very diverse spending habits of T&T people. Besides the staples (food, clothing shelter), family improvement Activities (from sport participation to education, Clubs, Cars, Carnival Shows, fetes, Local and Foreign artiste, other Sporting clubs (Cricket, Tennis, Swimming,BasketBall). Given that our middleClass has dwindled. The few football supporters left, out of this smaller middle class, could only go so far as to carry a club.
In the past many of our Top footballers played for love and personal enjoyment. Now, we producing possible pros straight out of HS. We teach our kids not to settle for mediocrity, and achieve.

Look at it this way, If everybody were doctors and nurses and strive to be the best. Who will clean the Hospitals and ensure a clean healthy environment, who will fix the broken bulbs, and maintain a safe environment ?

Likewise in football, it needs a major group of Football supporters, but we are sending all to academies and aiming for the moon. There is not disposible income left , from the few who can afford it to support the professional game on a professional level. Semi-pro maybe but not full professional..

not clear I know, but I think you see my point

 

Offline FF

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According to the Deloitte Football Money League Manchester United's income is divided as follows:
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/article/0,1002,sid%253D70402%2526cid%253D73888,00.html

Matchday Income: €92.4 Million - 36%
Broadcasting: €94.5 Million - 36%
Commercial: €72.1m - 28%

Man U is no. 1 on the money list


Barcelona's (no. 7 ) breakdown is as follows

Matchday €57.8m - 34%
Broadcasting €66.1m 39%
Commercial €45.3m - 27%

Glasgow Rangers (no 20):

Matchday €36.6m  - 42%
Broadcasting €11.3m - 13%
Commercial €38.3m - 45%

I could go on.  In many cases gates do not even account for half the total yearly income, if one removes the the broadcasting and sponsor money the clubs will indeed fold.  (Or at least be forced to drastically scale down their operations, sell of high-salary players, etc).  Point is, sponsor money isn't a 'bonus', it's essential.


Wait.... if again these stats misleading?!! Which one of them brackets is sponsorship? What about Prize monies? Champions league is lucrative business yuh know. It affects all those brackets... extra games for gate receipts... more Tv revenue... more exposure mean more juhsey and merchandise selling... i.e. commercial activities.... Sponsorship is only ah small part of commercial activities breds...

Yes sponsorship is very important... but them PFl clubs need to be able to stand on they own... the league also needs to help big time. Why don't they negotiate some kinda broadcasting deal to show de games and then share out the revenue from that. As the league grows and shows its profitability only then will you get sponsors coming on board in the numbers. right now yuh only getting sponsorship out of who have civic pride or want to do ah lil social end. (e.g. CL financial, W Connection, Courts)
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline rocwell

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FF,
Commercial refers to merchandising and Sponsorship, of which sponsorhip funds greatly outweigh merchandising.  the report states that manU made about 3.2Million over the last 2 years from replica sales, which is a small amount compared to their 72M Which they made in one year.  The fact is for large clubs gates alone make up roughly 30% - 40% of total revenue.

I'm looking for more examples of smaller clubs.  Take the gateshead FC Club which plays in the Northern Premier League (England)

Premier League > Football League > Football Conference > Northern premier league

Their stadium seats approximately 11,800 (I don't have actual attendance figures).  (http://www.gateshead-fc.com/clubInfo.php), however they have a total of 28 sponsors this season, and offer 'player sponsorship' and Matchday hospitality packages.  (http://www.gateshead-fc.com/corporate.php)

More examples to follow

Offline FF

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Yeah Rocwell.... smaller clubs would be more relevant... 28 sponsors!!! wayy!!

ah guess the PFL clubs should be doing the same. cuz if every sponsor give ah lil $1000.... it go help
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline rocwell

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Here's a good example:

Altrincham FC which plays in the Nationwide North League (1 level above gateshead FC)
Highest attendance (2004-2005) 827/
Lowest att 478
Ave 644

3 main sponsors
14 other major sponsors
They offer many different sponsor packages the most expensive of which cost £1000.
source: http://www.altrinchamfc.com/

So here's a club with only a few hundred showing up per game, They have 17 sponsors plus a multitude of sponsorship opportunities.  Sponsors are essential.  More examples to follow.

Offline dcs

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You can't force TV stations to broadcast.
We didn't even get to see T&T vs. Guatemala.

I kinda remember seeing semi-pro games on TV a while ago...PSA grounds come to mind so it had something before but I don't know how that was going.

Gayelle look like a station that would be willing to support plenty things but they running a tight ship and mightn be able to handle coverage of games...maybe the league could meet them halfway on the cost.

I think they also have more airtime available since right now they still developing and expanding their programming so it don't have to take up prime time slots but maybe late late night slots.  BETTER yet...just start with a good highlights show to give people everything quick.

It have plenty room for the clubs to try and scrape up money and scraping is the reality they need to come to terms with...they probably give up on most things they have tried in the past and just pushing for the one main sponsor.  It take a person with some business savy who will work with the club just outta love for the game cuz it have no money to make just enough to keep things going.

Side note.  I always thought that stadium in Tobago could be used to attract Outside clubs to come during their offseason and relax in Tobago and maybe pick up a game or two.  Even self bring in a few and have an offseason tournament thing going on.  Our players all over the place and that by itself would help plenty.  I find the Tobago public turns out and supports their teams alot but it might be cuz of the community based system.

Offline ironman

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Maxg where de arse you living? How the middle class dwindle?When u see that?
tell them it was me

Offline maxg

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Maxg where de arse you living? How the middle class dwindle?When u see that?

Answers: Montreal (to rass). To long to explain, globally due to different reasons. Many times.

As a matter of fact, the decrease/reduction of the middle class is a World Order...of which Trinidad is a part.. I would try to find such an article.

here.
"The recent experience of T&T has been a rapidly decreasing middle class."
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2004-10-09/bussguardian11.html

It is quite possible, Trinidad does not fall into the realm of what many Economist, and sociologist describe. I will check some more.

Offline ironman

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Ok bredda fair enough,I see it different but I could lurn something.
tell them it was me

Offline dcs

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Down the road to hell
Ghetto road to tragedy
Massa lives

Best way to read it if you don't want to go through all the race talk is to use the "search" feature and look for "middle" and just read the parts about the middle class....it's just his views and I am only putting it for the economic slant nothing else.  I just remember he talks about economics and the middle class every once in a while even if it's deeply imbeded in other more inflamatory things (as you can tell from the Titles).


All from the Trinidad Guardian and written within the last few months....none specifically geared toward the middle class but all with some reference to it.  Vague relevance to this topic is the issue of dwindling disposable income for sports activities (if it is dwindling).  Could also say there is less financial independence in the society on a whole and more dependence on government support.


Maxg where de arse you living? How the middle class dwindle?When u see that?

Answers: Montreal (to rass). To long to explain, globally due to different reasons. Many times.

As a matter of fact, the decrease/reduction of the middle class is a World Order...of which Trinidad is a part.. I would try to find such an article.

here.
"The recent experience of T&T has been a rapidly decreasing middle class."
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2004-10-09/bussguardian11.html

It is quite possible, Trinidad does not fall into the realm of what many Economist, and sociologist describe. I will check some more.


Offline rocwell

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Forest Green Rovers F.C. (Conference National)
source: http://www.forest-green.brewersnet.com
Jersey Sponsor - Smiths (http://www.smiths-gloucester.co.uk/)
many other sponsors who advertise on their website

Matchday (£200), Matchball (£100), Ground Development (£100), Mascot(£100) and Player (£175) sponsor offers.

Pitch perimeter board advertising (£250, £200, £150)

Matchday magazine advertising £200, £400 and £800

Attendance for last 5 matches:  676, 517, 665, 1191, 614

This is typical of many of the clubs I looked up.  The attendance figures aren't spectacular and they depend heavily on sponsors, from large to small operations, sponsors provide essential source of income (they actually provide most of the income).  And the smaller the club, the more they need sponsors.   Most of these small clubs, aren't necessarily thriving, they often encounter serious financial difficulty, sometimes forced to drop out of from their leagues.  (Sound familiar?)

The key is to get alot of the small and medium sized business in the community to contribute.  Here's where T&T's size comes in to play, these teams each have as many as 15 and 20 main sponsors.  How many willing and able small businesses exist in our clubs communities? (I'm asking)  Are there even 20 sponsors behind the National Team?

Offline dcs

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Offline Tallman

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No money no love in SPFL
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2005, 06:30:24 PM »
By Terence Hilton-Clarke (The Independent)

December 27, 1997

THE SEMI PROFESSIONAL Football League has made a major impact on the local foot balling landscape since its inception two years ago. The marked improvement in the standard of play has been noted by many, including national team manager Richard Braithwaite, and San Juan Jabloteh president, Jerry Hospedales.

Large crowds, numbering up to 5,000 in some instances, had been common throughout the 1997 season. Unlike the popular but outlawed Premier Soccer League (1981-88), this country's second experiment with semi-pro status has been embraced by all and sundry.

It is a motley ensemble which includes hard-core football fans, top-ranking football officials and influential business executives. The presence of legions of teenagers at fixtures - decked out in the latest products of Adidas, Nike, Puma and Tommy Hilfiger - suggests that SPFL games are climbing the charts of popular places to be seen, so far as adolescents are concerned. However, beneath this veneer lies the coarse reality of operating a team in the SPFL. The ineluctable fact is that now, more than ever before, clubs have to spend money, real money. Money to pay one's players and keep them happy; money to even keep one's top players and hence remain competitive; money to purchase uniforms and other equipment and, finally, money to maintain some of the other basic amenities expected of a semi-pro club - youth teams, ground maintenance etc.

The advent of a fully professional league in 1999 is sure to increase this list of considerations. And, of course, the magnitude of headaches frequently suffered by club chairmen! For now it seems that teams, more or less, are coming to terms with the present demands. An inquiry conducted among six of the clubs that competed in the 1997 Carib '150' Semi-Professional Football League revealed a few basic differences when it came to the policies the club's exhibited when it came to expenditure.

To start with perhaps the most basic example, Rangers spent $250,000 this past season and, according to manager Richard Fakoory a lot of this money was budgeted with the welfare of the players in mind: 'To be able to keep your players, you have to treat them better'. He stated, however that he is uncertain as to how he is going to deal with things once the pro league comes around. One club that did experience the agony of losing its top players was National Flour Mills, which saw strikers Warren Butler and Marc Borde defect to San Juan Jabloteh this year. Of the $240,000 estimate put out by the NFM Sports Club, 60 percent is intended to pay the salaries of the technical staff and players who received approximately $250 per game. However, according to team manager Elvis Charles, not everything has been covered as yet. Right now the Sports Club is hoping to derive some funds from the company's marketing drive for a new, Tobago-based, product called Andy's Nectar.

Citing NFM's relegation from the SPFL, and subsequent failure in the Champion of Champions series, Charles admitted that, 'Had things been financed differently, we still might be up.'

Another company-based team, United Petrotrin, received $80,000 from the company itself with the rest of funds coming from other sources.

Like four of the five other club representatives interviewed, Rudolph Thomas was surreptitious when it came to discussing player salaries. All he revealed was that one player, forward Peter Prosper, received a basic monthly salary on the basis of his professional experience with Al Ansar in Lebanon, while the other players received specific fees for each match with incentives provided depending on the result - regulation time victory, penalty shoot-out triumph etc.

Caledonia AIA, winner of the Mt D'or "Big Four" tournament is indebted to its main sponsor Courts, which supplied a lot of the $250,000 which was used to pay salaries to the playing and technical staffs, maintain security and to advertise. An additional $25,000 was spent on uniforms and other foot balling gear for the semi-professional team. Club representative Stephen Lucas, said that the second team, which plays in the Eastern Football Association (EFA) championship division, was provided with some of the first team's older uniforms as well as boots. Caledonia also had a women's team which cost $20,000 to run, along with under-19 and under-13 teams which cost $15,000.

This is why some clubs made out their budgets with all their selections in mind. San Juan Jabloteh, through the San Juan Sports and Cultural Organization, raised $420,000 for the 1997 season. With two netball teams to mind as well, the club spent $130,000 on transportation ($41,000), equipment ($43,000), refreshments for teams and opponents for home games at San Juan Senior Comprehensive ($28,000) and medical care ($13,000).

Vijay Bhaggan, the club's first vice-president revealed that salaries for players on the semi-pro squad varied according to experience and talent. Like Thomas at Petrotrin, Bhaggan feels that salaries will 'obviously increase' in the next few years as the stakes become higher and the players demand more. Joe Public's expenditure exceeded all. The Arouca-based"  Eastern Lions" spent $1.1 million in 1997 in order to accommodate its four teams - semi-pro, EFA, under-20 and under-17 - in the areas of salaries, uniforms and transportation. Funds were also appropriated for maintenance of the club's facilities at the Centre of Excellence in Tunapuna, as well as the payment of the ground staff.
 
With two more teams - under-15 and women's - to be added next year, and with more big things in store, club manager Richard Abraham revealed that Joe Public's budget for 1998 will be just under $2 million. At this point, one is inclined to inquire as to how clubs are going to survive, especially after 1999. Fakoory is already sceptical about the chances of some of the newly promoted teams such as Fire Services. Bhaggan held the view that Point Fortin Civic Centre, at least, has the capabilities to hold its own in the top flight. The question as to whether pure football/sports clubs like Joe Public, Caledonia AIA and Rangers had the advantage over service/company based teams such as Defence Force, United Petrotrin and Fire Services brought mixed responses from both sides.

Joe Public's Abraham held the opinion that the company teams held the advantage since their players had the benefit being employed with the firms, while his players derive most of their incomes through the club: "When you are in a position to offer employment, you are in a much more advantageous position."

However, Thomas took the opposite view, the one that team's such as Joe Public enjoy the benefits of being a straight business venture, while others such as his Petrotrin are dependent on their companies, whatever the financial situation. Nevertheless, there is one thing on which all are likely to agree - the promising future of Trinidad and Tobago football for which the SPFL is serving as a basis. Fakoory encapsulated the sentiments of Bhaggan, Thomas et al when he stated that the SPFL, 'Is going to make the standard of the football higher.'
The Conquering Lion of Judah shall break every chain.