Drug News Thread

[STEUPS!!]

well d government wud have still been stringing us along and making we for pappy show if rowley didnt open he mouth and say what the government official allegedly told him about the 'drug war'
and then when sandy was asked if the story is true, he bawl no comment, so d media take that as confirmation of the story

thanks eh rowley 

[weary1969]

Somebody call on I95 and say dat d Colombian govt send a diplomatic note sayin if we know dey peeps was comin 2 mash up d place we should have said someting. So a diplomaic row now. All dey have 2 say is we neva tell Rowley dat.

[Preacher]

I believe it.  Some of it.   Part of it.      Colombia want to go to War or what?   You don't just roll up on we just so just so. 

[D.H.W]

Media will print anything to sell papers

[capodetutticapi]

why would cocaine leave the doorsteps of usa (mexico) come to trini then to be shipped back to usa....well ah guess the more yuh transport the kilos the more expensive it becomes.

[Feliziano]

why would cocaine leave the doorsteps of usa (mexico) come to trini then to be shipped back to usa....well ah guess the more yuh transport the kilos the more expensive it becomes.

maybe they want access to Europe?
maybe them just greedy and want to take over all aspects of drug producing and operations from the Colombians?
why pay for raw product when u can get control of the fields?

[capodetutticapi]

why would cocaine leave the doorsteps of usa (mexico) come to trini then to be shipped back to usa....well ah guess the more yuh transport the kilos the more expensive it becomes.

maybe they want access to Europe?
maybe them just greedy and want to take over all aspects of drug producing and operations from the Colombians?
why pay for raw product when u can get control of the fields?

i eh think mexican cartels could compete with colombians regardin production.the trump card mexico have over colombia is location.pure and simple.

[Feliziano]

why would cocaine leave the doorsteps of usa (mexico) come to trini then to be shipped back to usa....well ah guess the more yuh transport the kilos the more expensive it becomes.

maybe they want access to Europe?
maybe them just greedy and want to take over all aspects of drug producing and operations from the Colombians?
why pay for raw product when u can get control of the fields?

i eh think mexican cartels could compete with colombians regardin production.the trump card mexico have over colombia is location.pure and simple.

somewhere i had read earlier this week that the Mexicans trying to get a foothold into Colombia...i'll try and find it though

[Bakes]

somewhere i had read earlier this week that the Mexicans trying to get a foothold into Colombia...i'll try and find it though

Even assuming that is true.. why go thru TnT?  Easier to just go thru Central America where language isn't a barrier and where presumably it would be easier to establish ties.  But like Capo say, the Mexicans in Trinidad thing makes very little sense... I sure Trinidad as a market is on nobody's radar.

[Football supporter]

Could be that Trini is the gateway to the English speaking Caribbean and Europe via London. Probably easier to send a Trini than a Mexican who would arouse more suspicion in Barbados, Bermuda, Jamaica and London?

[Feliziano]

somewhere i had read earlier this week that the Mexicans trying to get a foothold into Colombia...i'll try and find it though

Even assuming that is true.. why go thru TnT?  Easier to just go thru Central America where language isn't a barrier and where presumably it would be easier to establish ties.  But like Capo say, the Mexicans in Trinidad thing makes very little sense... I sure Trinidad as a market is on nobody's radar.

i think they watching Trinidad in terms of a transhipment point and whatever lil street money they pickup is a bonus.

[Feliziano]

Could be that Trini is the gateway to the English speaking Caribbean and Europe via London. Probably easier to send a Trini than a Mexican who would arouse more suspicion in Barbados, Bermuda, Jamaica and London?

yes thats what i saying
dem Mexicans looking for world domination lol

i not endorsing the SOE but we done have Chinese and Russian links in T&T, so is only a matter of time before them get riled up too

[capodetutticapi]

why would cocaine leave the doorsteps of usa (mexico) come to trini then to be shipped back to usa....well ah guess the more yuh transport the kilos the more expensive it becomes.

maybe they want access to Europe?
maybe them just greedy and want to take over all aspects of drug producing and operations from the Colombians?
why pay for raw product when u can get control of the fields?

i eh think mexican cartels could compete with colombians regardin production.the trump card mexico have over colombia is location.pure and simple.

somewhere i had read earlier this week that the Mexicans trying to get a foothold into Colombia...i'll try and find it though

nah that doh make sense,that go triple they price and they will lose existing markets they currently supplyin their brand too....how come.....they need to establish contact and routes......easier and cheaper for the yankee to go straight to the colombians

[capodetutticapi]

if it is the mexicans want to go straight to colombia,the colombians will take ah back seat,less money,far less risk.they still gettin they ah piece ah pie but all headache fuh the mexican.

[Bakes]

Could be that Trini is the gateway to the English speaking Caribbean and Europe via London. Probably easier to send a Trini than a Mexican who would arouse more suspicion in Barbados, Bermuda, Jamaica and London?

i think they watching Trinidad in terms of a transhipment point and whatever lil street money they pickup is a bonus.

So Mexico, which is North (and to the west) of the Caribbean will come to the island furthest south in order to establish a transshipment point to the rest of the Caribbean islands that they've just bypassed?  And they coming into a market where they are faced with their biggest competitor at that?  Say nothing of the fact that this Caribbean market is worth chicken feed compared to the US?  Why would they have to come to the Caribbean to get to Europe?

Makes absolutely no sense.

[just cool]

Hear all dem big drug dealers spillin their guts nah.

[Football supporter]

Well, I did say "could be". However, for the sake of argument, maybe its easier to ship via Trini as the borders are so weak and the drug gangs can act without fear of being caught?

With regards to the Caribbean market being worth chicken feed compared to the US, why is McDonalds bothering with Trini when they could open another restaurant in USA? The answer is because a local franchisee believes the market is good enough to make him rich. Same could be said of drugs. Maybe TT$20 million is chickenfeed to a Mexican drug lord, but to a Trini dealer its a fortune. So he sources a small supplier who needs to move more coke to get a better margin from his supplier. He doesn't care if the buyer is from Mexico City or Trinidad as the buyer pays then arranges shipment. And, like McDonalds, if there is already an established client base, its a great target for the Mexicans as all they need to do is cut the price and up the quality.

A Mexican travelling to Europe may arouse more suspicion than a Trini, and anyway, why travel yourself when you can send a Trini? It also adds another layer of protection if he is caught.

I'm just guessing all this, I have no knowledge of how the drug trade works, but this seems plausible.

[Bakes]

Well, I did say "could be". However, for the sake of argument, maybe its easier to ship via Trini as the borders are so weak and the drug gangs can act without fear of being caught?

With regards to the Caribbean market being worth chicken feed compared to the US, why is McDonalds bothering with Trini when they could open another restaurant in USA? The answer is because a local franchisee believes the market is good enough to make him rich. Same could be said of drugs. Maybe TT$20 million is chickenfeed to a Mexican drug lord, but to a Trini dealer its a fortune. So he sources a small supplier who needs to move more coke to get a better margin from his supplier. He doesn't care if the buyer is from Mexico City or Trinidad as the buyer pays then arranges shipment. And, like McDonalds, if there is already an established client base, its a great target for the Mexicans as all they need to do is cut the price and up the quality.

A Mexican travelling to Europe may arouse more suspicion than a Trini, and anyway, why travel yourself when you can send a Trini? It also adds another layer of protection if he is caught.

I'm just guessing all this, I have no knowledge of how the drug trade works, but this seems plausible.

If we're going to be guessing... let's at least put forth stuff that doesn't stretch the bounds of reason.  Mexicans coming to Trinidad to establish a transshipment point for Caribbean bound drugs becaust TnT borders weak?  Weaker than Grenada, St. Lucia, St. Kitts-Nevis et al who probably have one gun boat among them?  Trinidad's border security is weak, but not that weak.

As for your McDonald's example, the US fast-food market is saturated with competition whereas in the developing world and elsewhere American brands carry a cache giving them a leg up on local competition. McDonald's makes sense... Mexican drug market, not so much.  The US has an insatiable demand for narcotics.  Trinidad has a very tiny population, and an even smaller cocaine-abusing market... a market that can't even sustain a US$3.5 million supply (as evidenced by that quantity being shipped out).  I don't know... but I would be surprised if any Mexican dealer that desperate (with the US market right across the border) as to travel hundreds of miles south, to fight up with the Colombians over using TnT as a transshipment point.

It's worth noting that they'd have to cross seven terrestrial borders just to get the drugs to Trinidad... and then pass it up the archipelago... as opposed to shipping it thru Veracruz to the Cayman, Jamaica, PR, DR... to the top of the chain.  The latter seems clearly the shorter, cheaper, less hazardous route.

More likely is the scenario that the government is fighting to come up with post hoc rationalizations to justify an indefensible decision on the SoE.

[rotatopoti3]

tis iz ah football site....

Who iz d better team...Mexico or Colombia?

[asylumseeker]

In the interest of connecting some dots.

somewhere i had read earlier this week that the Mexicans trying to get a foothold into Colombia...i'll try and find it though

Even assuming that is true.. why go thru TnT?  Easier to just go thru Central America where language isn't a barrier and where presumably it would be easier to establish ties.  But like Capo say, the Mexicans in Trinidad thing makes very little sense... I sure Trinidad as a market is on nobody's radar.

You're quite correct with respect to Central America ... they (actors from both Mexico and Colombia) are already there. For instance, it's an issue that recently came to the fore in Costa Rica about ten weeks ago with the capture of Leudo Nieves. Have a look at Leudo Nieves and you'll see why certain players can move relatively undetected in a Caribbean setting.  

HOWEVER, with respect to language ... we're in 2011, for a variety of reasons: some historical and others expedient, language and cultural kinship are not as key drivers as one may conclude intuitively. The reality is that counter-intuitive decisions tend to suit success in the operating environment we're discussing.

As far as why go through T&T? The players are pushing a multi-prong agenda in part because it is known that a portion of the goods will be seized. Having multiple fronts in play helps to (there's a statistical term that's evading me right now) mitigate the "acceptable loss" category.

[asylumseeker]

Could be that Trini is the gateway to the English speaking Caribbean and Europe via London. Probably easier to send a Trini than a Mexican who would arouse more suspicion in Barbados, Bermuda, Jamaica and London?

i think they watching Trinidad in terms of a transhipment point and whatever lil street money they pickup is a bonus.

So Mexico, which is North (and to the west) of the Caribbean will come to the island furthest south in order to establish a transshipment point to the rest of the Caribbean islands that they've just bypassed?  And they coming into a market where they are faced with their biggest competitor at that?  Say nothing of the fact that this Caribbean market is worth chicken feed compared to the US?  Why would they have to come to the Caribbean to get to Europe?

Makes absolutely no sense.

Right now, the prevailing view is that consumption in Europe has soared while consumption in the US has declined. Europe is the attractive market. You ask why use the Caribbean? The same question can be asked: why use places like Guinea-Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Cape Verde and other West African states. The answer is it fits the expedience of the market ... plus factors that you identified elsewhere in the thread ... porous state architecture ... hence ease of corruption, lack of policing ... all the usual variables. These actors have a model of how to compromise ... once you've compromised local actors in country X ... compromising local actors elsewhere is viewed as following the template.

There are multiple transhipment points in the Caribbean because there are multiple points of opportunity ... and because there are multiple players. There really isn't a bypass in progress. Even Cuba. The contiguity of the Caribbean from places like Cartagena, Roatán, San Andrés and Providencia or Puerto Barrios really doesn't present the difficulties one would presume.

[asylumseeker]

I wonder what inspired this thread  .

Curiously, this linkage seemingly exists elsewhere. 

You way too bright for me..I doh speak cryptic..so feel free to translate for plebs like me sometimes.

When Anand comes calling I would prefer to have him decipher what was meant. Buh jes fuh you nah ... some ah de same people are allegedly in de same mix in other countries in Central and South America and well, our neighbouring islands. Curious thing that.

So ... the other thread on Cocaine Wars made me return to this.

Check out personalities such as Rady Z-a-i-t-e-r, Walid M-a-k-l-e-d, and Abdala who bears the same surname as Walid.

As Trinis we have a sense that we're in a "unique" universe. Not necessarily so. One more: F-a-c-u-s-s-e B-a-r-j-u-m.

[rotatopoti3]

get on asylumseeker on yuh last post....i say iz d economist magazine or Lipsey i reading dey yes....

[asylumseeker]

A notable difference in the "círcumstances" is that in other places electoral politics has been entered into ... as candidates ... not behind the scenes. The latter is largely the Caribbean experience ... although Jamaica and the Dominican Republic are exceptions to that.

[Bakes]

You're quite correct with respect to Central America ... they (actors from both Mexico and Colombia) are already there. For instance, it's an issue that recently came to the fore in Costa Rica about ten weeks ago with the capture of Leudo Nieves. Have a look at Leudo Nieves and you'll see why certain players can move relatively undetected in a Caribbean setting.  

HOWEVER, with respect to language ... we're in 2011, for a variety of reasons: some historical and others expedient, language and cultural kinship are not as key drivers as one may conclude intuitively. The reality is that counter-intuitive decisions tend to suit success in the operating environment we're discussing.

As far as why go through T&T? The players are pushing a multi-prong agenda in part because it is known that a portion of the goods will be seized. Having multiple fronts in play helps to (there's a statistical term that's evading me right now) mitigate the "acceptable loss" category.

My comment about the language "barrier" relates to more than just a mere facility with the local tongue, but also to facility with overcoming trust issues on both sides and in establishing a network.  I wouldn't know, but one would assume that cultural factors would smooth the process in Central America as opposed to TnT.  At issue isn't whether the obstacles can be overcome, but whether attempting such in TnT is cost effective, relative to avenues in Central America.

Right now, the prevailing view is that consumption in Europe has soared while consumption in the US has declined. Europe is the attractive market. You ask why use the Caribbean? The same question can be asked: why use places like Guinea-Bissau, Equatorial Guinea, Cape Verde and other West African states. The answer is it fits the expedience of the market ... plus factors that you identified elsewhere in the thread ... porous state architecture ... hence ease of corruption, lack of policing ... all the usual variables. These actors have a model of how to compromise ... once you've compromised local actors in country X ... compromising local actors elsewhere is viewed as following the template.

There are multiple transhipment points in the Caribbean because there are multiple points of opportunity ... and because there are multiple players. There really isn't a bypass in progress. Even Cuba. The contiguity of the Caribbean from places like Cartagena, Roatán, San Andrés and Providencia or Puerto Barrios really doesn't present the difficulties one would presume.

Are the Mexican cartels in these West African states?

As per the multiple transshipment points, in theory what you say makes sense, in reality to accept that the Mexicans have targeted Trinidad as one of those access points is to accept that they are willing to pay the higher costs to move a relatively small amount of product, and in doing so, unnecessarily trigger a war with the Colombians by encroaching on their territory.  Entirely possible, but doesn't seem realistic.

[soccerman]

Hear all dem big drug dealers spillin their guts nah.

Haha ent....Capo have dis ting down!

[asylumseeker]

Mexican cocaine doesn't mean cocaine originating in Mexico. It largely means cocaine originating in Colombia, controlled by Mexicans or bearing a significant Mexican investment.

The way the article is framed brings focus on a clash between Mexicans and Colombians in Trinidad but it doesn't flesh out why beyond the crackdown on the $22 million value. Although this might be an example of the two "groups" clashing, for the most part there is a lot of cooperation between them. What's probably happened here is an issue related to protecting the investment.

As far as the cost effectiveness ... As a former Colombian participant said of the Mexicans: they tax heavily ... something like 40% of the product is deemed theirs and then they levy a 20% on the value of the other 60% that's the Colombians.

[Trini _2026]

so  war over  22 million TT of cocaine ..... 

[Dutty]

so  war over  22 million TT of cocaine ..... 

.......and a MASSIVE field of ocro, you eh see how tall dem plants was or wha??

[frico]

$22 Million in drugs cause all that? What they will do for for a BIG shipment    take over the government 

Do you want the government to sit on their asses like it has been for the past 15 years,seems like you in favour of the drug business in TT.