Which forwards have more impact,the creative ones or the opportunistic ones?

[saga pinto]

Is ah forwards talent measured by how well he executes on chances created by his team or by his enate ability to take over ah game an score with deaf skill and speed,if you agree with either one tell me where you think T&T rates in these two areas.

[Jefferz]

DAMN. good question... um... creative ones can make dubious mistakes however they might also be more likely to create something out of nothing. Opportunist forwards are more start forward to getting the ball in the goal but they might also miss out to a more assured path imbetween... So i'd say creative ones are more valuable. then again i could be talkin utter shit. we'll maybe to help meh sort out my inadequacy to confidently state my opinion... What would you say a player like Birchall is...? Opportunist or Creative (opportunist?)

[Teflon Don]

so basically u either ah inzaghi/batistua or a schevchnko/eto...........to me both are important bcuz the inzaghi's and batistutas most of the time pull something out of nothing wen ppl least expect it plus they always lurking around an make space for ur other stikers....the schev's and eto's they are the go to guys for the entire 90...so i say both i cah really decide

[truetrini]

de one scoring de goals

[saga pinto]

Truetrini ah could tell by your answer who you like,It sounding kinda sternish to me.   

[Touches]

The originator of this thread must put some examples of who he feel is opportunist etc.

I find all of them creative and all of them have skill.

How would you classify Batistuta? a opportunist or creative.

Or a man like Kluivert, Schevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo etc

How would you classify Yorke in his priers in the world are bothme, Andy Cole or men like Ian Rush, Gary Lineker, Klinsman or Bierhoff.

Let us look lower down the big striker ladder...Borghetti is a wha?Alyuh remember the Yankee Wynalda, he poison every body out there and is all time leading US scorer.

at the end of the day all the GREAT striker have both Sublime skill and have the nose for goal. Yuh cyar have one or the other yuh have to have both.All are creative but the better ones have the opportunist streak in them.

Henry is the best example of what is the total package.

 

[dutchman]

I think if your team is behind to a team like .. Italy

You need the creative one , to force an opening

people like Robben.

If it is 0-0 you can go for either.

If you're ahead I would try to take maximum use of the opportunistic one, he often is best in the counters.
finds the net real fastest to close the match. He is more dependent of the teams moral & accuracy hence he preforms better if the entire team is doing well ( like winning 1-0 )
like Hasselbaink

my 2 cents

[Disgruntled_Trini]

disgruntled i understand yuh impatience with stern but lemme explain something...
they have certain men on the field, strikers in particular, that the ball just seems to follow
Inzaghi, Trezeguet etc...
these aren't the best ballers but they finish and score alot because they always seem to be "in the right place at the right time"
I think Stern is one of these guys
He gets a lot of opportunities that just don't seem to fall to other players (i agree he does throw way a lot)
I dunno if this is luck or skill, but it is one of the main reasons for his success and why i think he is important to our team
so while he misses at a greater rate than he scores,
i think we need him

now first off leh meh say being in the right place at the right time is ah talent, that goes jes beyond good positioning yuh have to have the eye for it

now for me I like ah creative striker i.e Eto'o, Sheva and Ronaldo somebody who could get the ball and run at defenders and get something out of nothing

the reason why strikers like Inaghi do so well is that they have ah dread midfield behind them so they always have scraps to pick up
Look at today Inzaghi played up top with Sheva. But behind him had Pirlo, Seedorf and Kaka with Cafu and Serginho on the wings. So at some point in time ah ball going and land in the box and he going to score.

This is why I does get so frustrated with Stern we doh have that kind ah creativity in midfield we have little or no wing play so for the majority of the time the man does be jes making up numbers on the field. That is why when he score that last goal against Mexico I was so surprised cause that is ah goal yuh does see men like Sheva score.

This is why I say that Juventus is the most dangerous side. Imagine Stern playing against that defense and Cannavaro man marking him. WASTE OF TIME. he go never score. But if yuh run at them and stretch them yuh go score and that is what AC Milan did. They too have ah brilliant strike partnership with Trezeguet and Zlatan. Trezuguet lurking in the box and Zlatan running at men.

Out of all the men I see that does goal poach. RVN is the boss. That man have the uncanny abillity to be at the right place at the right time. The man always scoring some scramble goal.

[Grande]

now for me I like ah creative striker i.e Eto'o, Sheva and Ronaldo somebody who could get the ball and run at defenders and get something out of nothing

The thing with Ronaldo, he is ah sublime mixture of both creativity and opportunity. A lot of his goals are from poaching, a lot are from dribbling past defenders and finishing. It is difficult to define Ronaldo's striking style. If yuh look at his 8 goals from de last World Cup, some are from poaching (the 1st goal in the final against Germany, 4th goal against China), and some are just pure creative skill (the toe-poke against Turkey, 2nd goal against Costa Rica). Does a balance of both creativity and an opportunistic nose make the best striker then? 

[Disgruntled_Trini]

The thing with Ronaldo, he is ah sublime mixture of both creativity and opportunity. A lot of his goals are from poaching, a lot are from dribbling past defenders and finishing. It is difficult to define Ronaldo's striking style. If yuh look at his 8 goals from de last World Cup, some are from poaching (the 1st goal in the final against Germany, 4th goal against China), and some are just pure creative skill (the toe-poke against Turkey, 2nd goal against Costa Rica). Does a balance of both creativity and an opportunistic nose make the best striker then?

yeah but Inter and Barca days the man was 9 out of 10 of his goals was attacking
the man was jes running at defenders laeft and right
is only cause the man fraid to damage he knee he doing that
what make him even more potent is his turn of pace from 0-60 nobody eh beating the man in ah footrace no defender keeping up with him

[Grande]

That is what Adriano doing these days but ah hope four or five years down the road that he won't stop maximizing his ability tuh risk injury.

In my opinion, it is safe to say that Adriano is the most complete striker these days. He is probably one of the most complete strikers to come out of Brazil for a long time: He have sweet dribbling skills, nice finishing, a great header of the ball (not somethin Brazilian players known for) and is one of de best free-kick takers in Serie A. Plus he have ah powerful frame. Not many other strikers could boast all dem talents on their resume.

[Disgruntled_Trini]

In my opinion, it is safe to say that Adriano is the most complete striker these days.

yuh was going good up until then
most complete striker is Sheva hands down then Eto'o
but what Adriano have going for him is his size the man build like ah tank and for ah big man he nimble to bad

[Grande]

Sheva and Adriano are complete strikers, hands down. Eto'o is superb at everything a striker is supposed to do except heading de ball. 

[Ponnoxx]

 Disgruntled you doing like if Ronaldo don't have anymore speed....Ronaldo faster than everybody...You are right by saying he doesn't want to mash up his knee....I watch every single game this man does play in...There is nobody as fast as him, serious...People might think Henry or Eto but I telling yuh Ronaldo stilll have bullet pace...

The Creative ones i think have more impact...Being opportunistic means you only wait for an opportunity, in football opportunity does come all the time but defenders can limit them and make it harder...Opportunists does get confidence when they come close or score and if this not happening they have no impact on the game....The good thing is that Opportunists tend not to drop their heads when things not going right,It may only take a second for them to score...Creative forwards might not being any opportunities and try to raise their confidence by dribbling a man or something of that sort...This might open win a corner or a penalty , they could get off a shot or get the ball to someone else who can score...But if the creative forward can't do anything then their confidence will go straight down and they will not have a good game...

[spideybuff]

Yeah u have to differentiate between creative, opporunitstic and COMPLETE forwards. Ronaldo, Shevchenko and them is complete forwards and have a larger impact. But I think is more of a cultural thing as to which ones have more impact in people's eyes. In Trinidad or Brazil, the view of a forward will be different to that of one in England or Germany.

On the same note though...allyuh find Romario was more opportunistic or creative?

[christiano]

This is an interesting topic . I believe that coaches change players into totally different players that they were in their younger days in an attempt to fit them into systems of play !

Take dwight for example ...he was once strong on the ground ,taking on defenders from the midfield ..into the box. After Villa and the Manu he was converted into a totally different player . If you have Beckham crossing the balls for u in the Box, why do u have to fight for it in the midfield ?

So the systems of strong teams may turn players into "opportunists" but in reality they may have strengths that are not seen as a result of a proper working systems !

A Striker main purpose is to score goals !

This has what has created boring footbal and footballers in the modern game ! 

[Filho]

DAMN. good question... um... creative ones can make dubious mistakes however they might also be more likely to create something out of nothing. Opportunist forwards are more start forward to getting the ball in the goal but they might also miss out to a more assured path imbetween... So i'd say creative ones are more valuable. then again i could be talkin utter shit. we'll maybe to help meh sort out my inadequacy to confidently state my opinion... What would you say a player like Birchall is...? Opportunist or Creative (opportunist?)

dread...you serious. first of all Birchall is not a striker. And as a midfielder in the TnT squad he is neither oportunist nor creative. he is what you would call a workhorse. for Port Vole he is more creative...but still a midfielder

to me there are 2 types of opportunistic forwards....

Inzaghi, Trezeguet, Batistuta, Romario, Careca, Lineker..etc are examples of the penalty box predator. Rely on movement off the ball and tend to play more centrally. Always seem to be in the right place at the right time. Second type: Eto'o, and Shevchenko etc.. these are NOT creative strikers. They are just more mobile. They have more skill on the ball and like the ball at their feet, but they play with their heads down and use their skill primarily to create for themselves. Still very selfish and will never passs so long as they can shoot. Both these types of strikers are considered useless if they don't score tons of goals. They are both still expected to score the scrappy goals as well.  They are both judged by their stats at the end of the season.

Creative forwards like Maradona, Cruyff, Berkamp, Robben enjoy assists as much as goals and play with their heads up (aka...have greater vision). Love to dribble but pass even when they can sometimes shoot. Will not be considered rubbish if they do not score (15-20)+ goals per season, but are capable of it.

Hybrid..Henry, Rivaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc...have to be both creative and opportunist. Still expected to score 15+ goals per season. Scorer of great goals and a great goalscorer

Just my opinion. there is obviously no definition so I eh saying others wrong.....except jefferz...Birchall killa?
 

[Ponnoxx]

 

DAMN. good question... um... creative ones can make dubious mistakes however they might also be more likely to create something out of nothing. Opportunist forwards are more start forward to getting the ball in the goal but they might also miss out to a more assured path imbetween... So i'd say creative ones are more valuable. then again i could be talkin utter shit. we'll maybe to help meh sort out my inadequacy to confidently state my opinion... What would you say a player like Birchall is...? Opportunist or Creative (opportunist?)

dread...you serious. first of all Birchall is not a striker. And as a midfielder in the TnT squad he is neither oportunist nor creative. he is what you would call a workhorse. for Port Vole he is more creative...but still a midfielder

to me there are 2 types of opportunistic forwards....

Inzaghi, Trezeguet, Batistuta, Romario, Careca, Lineker..etc are examples of the penalty box predator. Rely on movement off the ball and tend to play more centrally. Always seem to be in the right place at the right time. Second type: Eto'o, and Shevchenko etc.. these are NOT creative strikers. They are just more mobile. They have more skill on the ball and like the ball at their feet, but they play with their heads down and use their skill primarily to create for themselves. Still very selfish and will never passs so long as they can shoot. Both these types of strikers are considered useless if they don't score tons of goals. They are both still expected to score the scrappy goals as well.  They are both judged by their stats at the end of the season.

Creative forwards like Maradona, Cruyff, Berkamp, Robben enjoy assists as much as goals and play with their heads up (aka...have greater vision). Love to dribble but pass even when they can sometimes shoot. Will not be considered rubbish if they do not score (15-20)+ goals per season, but are capable of it.

Hybrid..Henry, Rivaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc...have to be both creative and opportunist. Still expected to score 15+ goals per season. Scorer of great goals and a great goalscorer

Just my opinion. there is obviously no definition so I eh saying others wrong.....except jefferz...Birchall killa?
 

How Shevchencko not creative...you telling me that Andriv Shevchencko who score last minute goals from way out at all different angles is not creative...And I hope when yuh say etc. Ronaldo is not included because he is the best Striker since Pele

[JDB]

Fihlo has it about right.

There are two extremes. the ultimate poacher, does nothing but wait to strike plus some trap, screen and layoff. Ruud, Lineker, Cole (in his prime) Inzaghi.

The genuinely creative forward. Maradona, Stoichkov, Cantona. These men actually CREATE for others while playing as a forward.

Everybody else falls in between with a mix of creative goalscoring and opportunism.

There are men in the middle category who are so imaginative with their goalscoring touches that they blow your mind and they could reach the level creative men in time (Henry and Zlatan, WOW) especially when they slow down.

How Shevchencko not creative...you telling me that Andriv Shevchencko who score last minute goals from way out at all different angles is not creative...And I hope when yuh say etc. Ronaldo is not included because he is the best Striker since Pele

He is probely thinking of creativity that drives a team, from the forward line, as opposed to being a creative/inventive goalscoring. Nobody is saying that Sheva, Henry, Eto'o are not creative.

[Marcos]

The originator of this thread must put some examples of who he feel is opportunist etc.

I find all of them creative and all of them have skill.

How would you classify Batistuta? a opportunist or creative.

Or a man like Kluivert, Schevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo etc

How would you classify Yorke in his priers in the world are bothme, Andy Cole or men like Ian Rush, Gary Lineker, Klinsman or Bierhoff.

Let us look lower down the big striker ladder...Borghetti is a wha?Alyuh remember the Yankee Wynalda, he poison every body out there and is all time leading US scorer.

at the end of the day all the GREAT striker have both Sublime skill and have the nose for goal. Yuh cyar have one or the other yuh have to have both.All are creative but the better ones have the opportunist streak in them.

Henry is the best example of what is the total package.

 

good post touches but i think he talking bout men like Stern/inzaghi vs henry/shevas
inzaghi and stern really doh create no setta goal for others
Disgruntled ah feel yuh recognize why i appreciate stern so
Filho i was wonderin d same ting about dat birchall comment and i agree about eto not being creative. i was kinda wonderin since so many men saying that.
jus cuz the man have some speed and can run past men doh mean he is a creative player. he is a great poacher, pouncing on ball and leh-in' go bullet in a flash

[real-warrior]

i think it is the more creative ones

[kicker]

The originator of this thread must put some examples of who he feel is opportunist etc.

I find all of them creative and all of them have skill.

How would you classify Batistuta? a opportunist or creative.

Or a man like Kluivert, Schevchenko, Henry, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo etc

How would you classify Yorke in his priers in the world are bothme, Andy Cole or men like Ian Rush, Gary Lineker, Klinsman or Bierhoff.

Let us look lower down the big striker ladder...Borghetti is a wha?Alyuh remember the Yankee Wynalda, he poison every body out there and is all time leading US scorer.

at the end of the day all the GREAT striker have both Sublime skill and have the nose for goal. Yuh cyar have one or the other yuh have to have both.All are creative but the better ones have the opportunist streak in them.

Henry is the best example of what is the total package.

Think of creative and opportunist as labels that describe the role they play in a team as opposed to purely descriptive words that describe their ability.......each player is creative in his own way, and by calling a forward an opportunist, he's not saying that he has no skill or ability to create.

By a creative forward, I think of a player who drops deep and gets involved with the creative passing aspect of the game - Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Stoickov, Baggio, maybe etc... the types of players who when you ask yourself if they are a forward or a midfielder....there is no correct answer

opportunists are the ones whose jobs are primarily to score goals, and no one is really too concerned with their ability to make splitting passes or drop deep to possess the ball.....Trezequet, Lineker, Bierhoff etc....

I think most modern-day forwards are a mix of the two polar extremes, and the value they add to their respective teams depends on the supporting cast, the style of play and the coaches intentions/tactics.

[Marcos]

You leave Stern off ya list
one of the greatest poachers in international history (statistically)

[saga pinto]

Okay! lets look at what creative means:It means involving or showing the use of ones imagination or original ideas in order to create something,now lets look at opportunist:someone who takes advantage of something in an unconventional way.Now I agree with most if not all of the responses,but after looking at both games against bahrain I have to tell yuh we more effective with stern & kenwynne jones upfront simply because there are two different styles at play here, stern with his post up lay off to his midfielders style and kenwynne with his take it to the defense with endless possibilities.If you look at the great teams in the past,they lived by one ideal the "best defense is ah great offense".      

[dutchman]

Just wanted to add that the first part of my post are not only my words just a week ago van Basten said.

 ''We need the "creative" player ( reffering to Kalou & Robben), to force an opening if we are behind, people like Robben but also Kalou ( still not a dutch citizen) are very important.
Thats why he does everything possible to make the dutch minister change her mind and make sure that Kalou can join the the tea.

[Jefferz]

DAMN. good question... um... creative ones can make dubious mistakes however they might also be more likely to create something out of nothing. Opportunist forwards are more start forward to getting the ball in the goal but they might also miss out to a more assured path imbetween... So i'd say creative ones are more valuable. then again i could be talkin utter shit. we'll maybe to help meh sort out my inadequacy to confidently state my opinion... What would you say a player like Birchall is...? Opportunist or Creative (opportunist?)

dread...you serious. first of all Birchall is not a striker. And as a midfielder in the TnT squad he is neither oportunist nor creative. he is what you would call a workhorse. for Port Vole he is more creative...but still a midfielder

to me there are 2 types of opportunistic forwards....

Inzaghi, Trezeguet, Batistuta, Romario, Careca, Lineker..etc are examples of the penalty box predator. Rely on movement off the ball and tend to play more centrally. Always seem to be in the right place at the right time. Second type: Eto'o, and Shevchenko etc.. these are NOT creative strikers. They are just more mobile. They have more skill on the ball and like the ball at their feet, but they play with their heads down and use their skill primarily to create for themselves. Still very selfish and will never passs so long as they can shoot. Both these types of strikers are considered useless if they don't score tons of goals. They are both still expected to score the scrappy goals as well.  They are both judged by their stats at the end of the season.

Creative forwards like Maradona, Cruyff, Berkamp, Robben enjoy assists as much as goals and play with their heads up (aka...have greater vision). Love to dribble but pass even when they can sometimes shoot. Will not be considered rubbish if they do not score (15-20)+ goals per season, but are capable of it.

Hybrid..Henry, Rivaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc...have to be both creative and opportunist. Still expected to score 15+ goals per season. Scorer of great goals and a great goalscorer

Just my opinion. there is obviously no definition so I eh saying others wrong.....except jefferz...Birchall killa?
 

NAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!  i wasnt sayin birchall was a striker ATOL!! i simply was looking for any example to clearify the exact meaning of what an Opportunist and a creative FOOTBALLER was in "GENERAL" ah know firmly da Me Mum is a midfeilder for both TNT and Port buh i thought since he seems to create alot of goals out of nothing... WHILE being a fellah who see opurtunity and doesnt hesitate... HOW would you differentiate him. Das all.   

[Gladman]

Look at this way some striker like to create there own opportunity some jus wait to pounce on ah half chance ,anyhow u take it u need those two type of stikers on your team

[Marcos]

Just in case ppl gettin tie up
a creative striker eh someone who could shake but rather one who supplies goals for others
i reading through all d posts and find ppl gettin tie up with dis

[Benchwarmer]

This is the best topic i have seen for a while......
Which striker you want depends on many things. The coaches game plan.The ability of the midfield. Tatics like 3-5-2 or 4-4-2.
Different strokes for different folks.

I love Ac milan....i hated inzaghi until he put on that uniform..it made me realize that he is very important to a side.
if a coach has a player like Totti coming through the midfield. why would he want a  striker to hold the ball and control....yuh want a man who could finish from inside the 18.

DAMN. good question... um... creative ones can make dubious mistakes however they might also be more likely to create something out of nothing. Opportunist forwards are more start forward to getting the ball in the goal but they might also miss out to a more assured path imbetween... So i'd say creative ones are more valuable. then again i could be talkin utter shit. we'll maybe to help meh sort out my inadequacy to confidently state my opinion... What would you say a player like Birchall is...? Opportunist or Creative (opportunist?)

dread...you serious. first of all Birchall is not a striker. And as a midfielder in the TnT squad he is neither oportunist nor creative. he is what you would call a workhorse. for Port Vole he is more creative...but still a midfielder

to me there are 2 types of opportunistic forwards....

Inzaghi, Trezeguet, Batistuta, Romario, Careca, Lineker..etc are examples of the penalty box predator. Rely on movement off the ball and tend to play more centrally. Always seem to be in the right place at the right time. Second type: Eto'o, and Shevchenko etc.. these are NOT creative strikers. They are just more mobile. They have more skill on the ball and like the ball at their feet, but they play with their heads down and use their skill primarily to create for themselves. Still very selfish and will never passs so long as they can shoot. Both these types of strikers are considered useless if they don't score tons of goals. They are both still expected to score the scrappy goals as well.  They are both judged by their stats at the end of the season.

Creative forwards like Maradona, Cruyff, Berkamp, Robben enjoy assists as much as goals and play with their heads up (aka...have greater vision). Love to dribble but pass even when they can sometimes shoot. Will not be considered rubbish if they do not score (15-20)+ goals per season, but are capable of it.

Hybrid..Henry, Rivaldo, Tevez, Rooney etc...have to be both creative and opportunist. Still expected to score 15+ goals per season. Scorer of great goals and a great goalscorer


 

This sounds about right.  Why do ppl consider Trezeguet a poacher???
Van Nisteroy is more of a poacher....
Some strikers have the ability to do both. but it what the coach requires of them that you see on the field. Like Davids in ther midfiled...he is very talented and creative...but zidiane was there with him...so he had no need to be creative..the coach wanted him to be a ball winner.. so that is what he did..

If you have a berkamp...yuh need somebody to finish what he create.

[ribbit]

good thread. so applying this to we team:

opportunistic: stern
creative: "can-wine", glen, yorke, scotland, ....

what the hell - who else would be classified as opportunistic?