Football ethnocentrism?/reality check? World Cup's biggest upsets!!

[AB.Trini]

With all due respect, I know that we are the Warriors are an 'upstart' on the World Stage, and I know we are not a perceived�  giant among the so called football powers but don't we at least deserve some respect and credability for our accomplishments?

To be�  seen as a mere'minnow' or fly which could be just swattered away either points to arrogrance on the part of some nations or an example of what I will termed as 'football ethnocentrisim.'

Reality check...It's a fact, recently with the exception of�  an undermanned Mexican team, we have not encountered so called football nations of comparable might. Regardless, our games aganist
Costa Rica were not out of our grasp!!!! yet I have not seen nor heard of diminshing or disparaging remarks directed aganist CR.�  A first game�  positive result aganist Guatemala would have put us withing almost the same amount of qualifying points as Costa Rica.

Appearing at this level�  and approaching each game is a switch for us . Duing games leading up to the Hex and games in the Hex, there was an expectation for us to do well and to qualify.�  We carried this high expectations into the 'Gold Cup flop'.The pressure�  to perform and to�  do so convincingly was one the Warriors faced each and every game. Now we are cast in the role of 'spoilers' underdogs.

 Our present role,�  could be a monumental advantage to our approach fo rthis game. Other nations who are casting our game aganist England as a mere 'FA cup game' or who are seeing us as a stepping stone to the next stage may underestimate us, may be overconfident, may break down in discipline and if we step up our level of play and rise�  to the occassion, we could�  produce some of football major upsets at a World Cup.

I say, let's embrace this role. 'walk quietly and carry the big stick' and let's do what no one else expect but ourselves.
 
Could we now begin to list some of the biggest upsets from Past World Cups? Could this be our World Cup legacy? could we be immortalized as a football nation for�  cuttiing down the mighty foes? could we be the David and Goliath story?


Upset story # 1

http://2002.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/02/en/pf/h/cg/cmr_eng_1990.html

[AB.Trini]

Senegal humble defending champions France 1-0 in the World Cup curtain-raiser in Seoul.
Is it the tournament's greatest ever giant-killing?

Midfielder Pape Bouba Diop upstaged France's cast of stars to score the decisive winner after 30 minutes.

Les Bleus struggled to find their stride in searching for an equaliser and clearly suffered from Zinedine Zidane's withdrawal through injury.

And in his absence it was Senegal's El Hadji Diouf who claimed the starring role, harassing the French defence throughout.

[AB.Trini]

 By John Doyle
Group B — England, Paraguay Sweden, Trinidad and Tobago.

English manager Sven-Goran Eriksson has a rep for outstanding luck, and his luck held again. England's toughest opponent is Sweden (Eriksson's home country) and England hasn't beaten Sweden in 37 years. But as Eriksson told the BBC after the draw: “Sooner or later we have to beat them.” Both Paraguay and Trinidad and Tobago present easy victim for the strongest English team in years. Most of the T&T players toil in the lower divisions of English soccer, while the England team is the elite. England is easy favourite to advance.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051210.wxwcup1210/BNStory/Sports/


Further examples of this kinda of talk will be predominant throughout the months leading up to the World cup.

To mentally prepare our players, I would begin by collecting these clippings and use these as 'motivation; to stir a firery passion ; a Warrior rage as we begin our approach to the games.

[cm103]

I remember that Cameroon-England game clearly even though I was just 10 years old. One of the better matches of that WC. I expecting us to show up like Cameroon with the kind of preparations that going on for our side now.

[Touches]

Arhmmm Alberta.......yuh example not really substantiating yuh post yuh know......yuh link showing England beat Cameroon breds. Why highlight a hard luck attempt, yuh shoulda put the win vs Argentina instead.....or am I missing the point of your post.

Also Senegal was only an unknown quantity to those who didnt know their players.

The reason why people doe say nuttin bout Costa Rica is because they have been to the World Cup before, they have made second rounds and they have also put up a good showing Namely against teams like Brazil......which they could have won and was one of the more entertaining games of the last WC and Turkey. Also they get a damn good draw....Ecuador ent all that and Poland is beatable.

We have no such experience and harder competition.

Also when we are playing lesser known teams like Cayman, Bahamas etc in the Shell Cup and Copa Caribe.....don't we do the same thing and dismiss our opponents in the same way.

[AB.Trini]

Touches,
You are right on with those comparisons!!!!!!! We too do the same when we approach  teams of so -called lesser calibre!!

That is why I would be interested to see how we will combat this role reversal and approach these  preparations with a different mind set and  motivation as we face these formidable foes.

[AB.Trini]

Biggest sporting upsets!!!!

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/topupsets/010525.html

[duscam]

hey we already thinking we could beat england and sweden..arent we underestimating them too....? lampard, gerrard, beckham, sean wright phillips etc etc...yuh think we could match that midfield? well i am a supporter and i hope we beat them too but the posts here getting a little carried away about what we can and cannot do. but i think we should put aside our usual trini bravado and big talk and go queitly and do the business. If we successful then we could chalk it up to good discipline and hard work if not we made history by making the world cup.. Beenie man is a genius but so is sven goran so let us be quietly confident nah..knowing that sweden and england are favorites for a reason.

[AB.Trini]

At this stage, I am making no predictions nor am I underestimating any team. I'm simply putting forth a case for us to approach these games  with a different mindset; we already have a different set of expectations.

Beyond a doubt, there are some quality teams and players whose livelihood is functioning at a high level of play throughout the year. On paper and considering the heightened tensions we had putting away Bahrain, our task will not be easy. But we are now operating with new circumstances; new motivation and a heightened motivation for each and every player.

So why would we have sporting events if the winner is already assured of victory prior to the game? 

What would it be like in a world without BELIEF?

Belief in the psychological sense, is a representational mental state that takes the form of a propositional attitude.  generally called faith; historically generated by a group's need to provide a functionally valid foundation to sustain them.

Belief is considered propositional in that it is an assertion, claim or expectation about reality that is presumed to be either true or false (even if this cannot be practically determined).From Wikipedia encyclopedia:

[duscam]

if u say so

[AB.Trini]

ah say so; why is it so irrational to separate FACT from Fiction?

[Wilson]

Remember......although England have good players, they do not play so good as a team. This is so very important, and remembering this fact gives anyone a chance against them Next thing.....upsets happen all the time in football, and certainly in the UK at club level. For example there have already been several in the League Cup, and no doubt will be in the FA Cup as well...remember Exeter City getting a draw away to Man United last season. These thing can and do happen.

[Rotato Poti]

Biggest sporting upsets!!!!

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/topupsets/010525.html

heh ... my alma mater's #5 on that list.
However, the English Press has always been condescending to old colonies.
Have you ever read some of the articles on cricinfo.com?

From now til June, all we'll hear about is Yorke and his party attitude, and the bad example that he and Lara set as professionals .. blahsie blahsie.

This is just like Nov 16th again .... all we need is 1.

[AB.Trini]

In tihs case 'slaves will no longer be subjected to their masters' the glory of divine subjection is no longer applicable in today's world view. Imagine if Birchall score agoal tuh sink he birthplace and at the same time propel his adapted homeland tuh the next round.

All kinda man turning round in de graves!!!!!

[Filho]

With all due respect, I know that we are the Warriors are an 'upstart' on the World Stage, and I know we are not a perceived  giant among the so called football powers but don't we at least deserve some respect and credability for our accomplishments?

nope. not from the media, nor from the traditional football powers. we have the chance to earn our respect on the field at the WC. until then the only respect we will get is for being a small nation that has qualified...but that does nothing to change our image as potential whipping boys. respect is earned...and the kind of respect you talking about has not been earned yet

Regardless, our games aganist Costa Rica were not out of our grasp!!!! yet I have not seen nor heard of diminshing or disparaging remarks directed aganist CR.  A first game  positive result aganist Guatemala would have put us withing almost the same amount of qualifying points as Costa Rica.

When you lose a game..it is out of your grasp. Get out of the Trini mindset of eternal football excuses. Woulda coulda shoulda...Costa Rica also has WC results to be proud of. We do not. There is a huge difference

Appearing at this level  and approaching each game is a switch for us . Duing games leading up to the Hex and games in the Hex, there was an expectation for us to do well and to qualify.  We carried this high expectations into the 'Gold Cup flop'.The pressure  to perform and to  do so convincingly was one the Warriors faced each and every game. Now we are cast in the role of 'spoilers' underdogs.

with all due respect..the boys will be under more pressure than they've ever felt. Even if England and co. have more to lose, they have a lot more experience dealing with that type of pressure. I doh buy that. But they might take us lightly...I agree with you there. I also agree we should embrace the underdog role...then again..we doh really have a choice (until we start to mash sides up  )

[elan]

These English guys here in school keeps giving me hell, but I am calm. I calmly explain to them how T&T could beat or get a tie with England. As was said we need too be calm. A lot of us getting Carried away. You have to understand why these "big footballing nation" think the way they do. England,  as history shows invented the game, yet they have only one the thing once. They have some of the best players in the world, but blame everything on the coach.See any similarities?

What separates us - I believe - from other countries are our mental toughness and more so our physical preparation. For example, the reason that the US women's team was so unbeatable was not that they were necessarily better but that they were fitter. The Americans push themselves to the edge, we push as far as we think we can go. It's call playing or training to your performance gap. Our team  has a very large performance gap, which is a good thing because Leo realise this.

Always remember football is doing the mundane, and we are only now beginning to do so.

[duscam]

What separates us - I believe - from other countries are our mental toughness and more so our physical preparation

obviously u havent watch alot of trini football...mental toughness against who? and if any it is very recent. Physical preparation, we cannot even come close to how they train in the premier league...just ask dwight yorke.....

i hoping for an upset.......you think we gonna get three? i taking bets

[oconnorg]

Arhmmm Alberta.......yuh example not really substantiating yuh post yuh know......yuh link showing England beat Cameroon breds. Why highlight a hard luck attempt, yuh shoulda put the win vs Argentina instead.....or am I missing the point of your post.

Also Senegal was only an unknown quantity to those who didnt know their players.

The reason why people doe say nuttin bout Costa Rica is because they have been to the World Cup before, they have made second rounds and they have also put up a good showing Namely against teams like Brazil......which they could have won and was one of the more entertaining games of the last WC and Turkey. Also they get a damn good draw....Ecuador ent all that and Poland is beatable.

We have no such experience and harder competition.

Also when we are playing lesser known teams like Cayman, Bahamas etc in the Shell Cup and Copa Caribe.....don't we do the same thing and dismiss our opponents in the same way.

Touches Good point.. Good point.. I for one am guilty of what you outlined

[Pointman]

after all is said and done, Don Leo will have to work his majic. Make no mistake Trinis, we are in a VERY difficult group. England is very strong and Sweden is formidible as well...don't know much about Paraguay...Let's not delude ourselves here. On paper anyone can see that we are the weakest team in the group(and probably the oldest), so ultimately it's all up to how Don Leo fields his team. We will have a much better chance(in my humble opinion) if we are able to get Zamora and Austin and even Jlloyd...waggonist or not.

But, like Don Leo said "this is football not mathematics, naything could happen" ALL THE BEST WARRIORS...make us proudER.   VIBES IT UP!!

[AB.Trini]

Until we have played on the big stage all teams are at zero. No one has won agame as yet and no one has lost agame. So I say leh we think upset and break out when the time come. IS LIKE BEFORE YUH GET MARRIED TO ONE WOMAN EVERY NIGHT OUT IS AH FRIENDLY----IF YUH SCORE YUH GOOD IF YUH GET BLANK SAY WHAT. WHEN YUH HIT THE BIG DAY THOUGH THAT IS WHEN YUH WANT TUH DELIVER AND DELIVER WE SHALL.

[jose]

well said,i hope u score plenty

[JDB]

The folly of listing past upsets is to ignore the fact that they were "unexpected". That is what makes them noteworthy and predicting them isn't really a prediction but a hope/wish/desire that sometimes come through. It is not logical to predict that a team WILL play above itself.

Referencing the successes of Senegal, Cameroon, Korea, US is to ignore the innumerable defeats of teams of our stature.

Also the underdog menatlity should be nothing new to us we were underdogs thoroughout the Hex so that should be no benefit, if anything the task just gets harder because we are even bigger underdogs now.

I seriously wonder if some men here will say that we underperformed or played badly if we don't make the 2nd round, because right now it seems as if that is where we headed so anything less is failure.

The second round for us is a goal for the team, it has to be, but until we take the field and shock somebody it is a dream for the fans. Let us let the boys play, give them our full support and let the chips fall where they may.

[Dutty]

I want to agree and disagree with you post at the same time

The folly of listing past upsets is to ignore the fact that they were "unexpected". That is what makes them noteworthy and predicting them isn't really a prediction but a hope/wish/desire that sometimes come through. It is not logical to predict that a team WILL play above itself.

They were only 'unexpected' by the powerhouses against which they played, I'm fairly sure all the great upsets in football were expected by the underdogs because their intent, perhaps sole intent was to beat the team in question.
I imagine it took a lot of focus and intestinal fortitude but my guess is no underdog ever walks onto the field of play/battle and takes down a giant unexpectedly

Referencing the successes of Senegal, Cameroon, Korea, US is to ignore the innumerable defeats of teams of our stature.

Overcomming the impossible is also a reality. At some point the football powerhouses were also an underdog thus some standard of achievement has/had to be referenced and defeats ignored. With every successive defeat of a 'giant' one can build blocks to make the playing field level

Also the underdog menatlity should be nothing new to us we were underdogs thoroughout the Hex so that should be no benefit, if anything the task just gets harder because we are even bigger underdogs now.

Not sure if I agree, we started at the bottom, and we're still at the bottom of the ladder

I seriously wonder if some men here will say that we underperformed or played badly if we don't make the 2nd round, because right now it seems as if that is where we headed so anything less is failure.

This I fully agree with, the fact that we will walk onto a world cup pitch was the focus from about 1973. We have met our goal
On the other hand the country you live in is a perfect example of the achievement mentality. From little league baseball all the way to the olympics..2nd or runner up might as well be last
No one cares about or remembers the silver medallist or who came 2nd in the superbowl. It is No.1 or done
We can learn from that, granted its not the norm of our culture, but I think we can adopt some of those mental ways of thinking........i was going to use pradigm but it too effin cliche

I like the fact that some supporters here think we can go higher and achieve more (even though we have already achieved our goal) I dislike the negative manner in which they express it however

The second round for us is a goal for the team, it has to be, but until we take the field and shock somebody it is a dream for the fans. Let us let the boys play, give them our full support and let the chips fall where they may.

Again, i dont see this as a pipe dream for fans or players. Unfortunately Trini or west indian culture tends to dictate that you rest on your laurels and either dont try for higher or try for the next time. This statement may seem a bit contradictory but it is possible to walk the line beetween both hope and higher expectation