TTFA License Coaching Course Thread.

[Coop's]

FS i agree with u totally when u say the press is doing a poor job at promoting local Football,just read our daily newspapers and you will see what i'm talking about,the sports pages are filled with foreign Football,all the major leagues complete with reports,pictures,results and stories from games etc etc u have to search with a fine tooth comb to find what's going on or went on locally,Sports max giving us endless Football from Jamaica.

[elan]

Amwood you remember recently i wrote a reply and i mentioned about parents in the US,this is what i was talking about,i understood your response because i know they can be a pain in the butt but this is where most of our problems in Youth Football are.
   

Coop's Parents in the US for the most part have to be there because they have to drive to the fields. It's a different culture. In T&T we travel, therefore it is more feasible for the player to find there way than the whole family travel. A kid at 14 in T&T often has more responsibility than a kid in a rural area in the US. At 16 years in T&T most times a kid out of school and looking to fend for themselves whereas in the states a 16 year old is still a Sophomore/Junior in High School and depending on mom and dad. You see many of these same kids showing up for games and don't even know there schedule.

American parents pay for coaching so therefore they want to see what they are getting. Look at the difference in how parents operate for school soccer as oppose to travel soccer.

[asylumseeker]

The parental issue is seemingly not endemic to T&T. Bibi Garner lamented it in the Jamaican context 2 weeks ago.

Frankly, on a fundamental level, I doh view this as a totally new phenomenon. Parents in our society have for decades been less inserted in certain activities involving children. Our society is one in which  primary school kids are fairly self-managed (consider commuting to school alone etc. ... unlike other societies where that is not the case). The hovering parent is not one typically present in T&T.

Also, indicting parents for their absence has to be weighted against whether there is a perception that the event is one at which they can't hang about. Also, some parents just not on football in our kinda way.

For instance, back in de day when the Sunshine Snacks tournament was in swing, I doh recall ah slew of families being out there. It was often team officials and players and peongs from the area.

On the other hand, it's a shame that coaches had a poor turnout to an event that was free to them.

[asylumseeker]

Amwood you remember recently i wrote a reply and i mentioned about parents in the US,this is what i was talking about,i understood your response because i know they can be a pain in the butt but this is where most of our problems in Youth Football are.
   

Coop's Parents in the US for the most part have to be there because they have to drive to the fields. It's a different culture. In T&T we travel, therefore it is more feasible for the player to find there way than the whole family travel. A kid at 14 in T&T often has more responsibility than a kid in a rural area in the US. At 16 years in T&T most times a kid out of school and looking to fend for themselves whereas in the states a 16 year old is still a Sophomore/Junior in High School and depending on mom and dad. You see many of these same kids showing up for games and don't even know there schedule.

American parents pay for coaching so therefore they want to see what they are getting. Look at the difference in how parents operate for school soccer as oppose to travel soccer.

Precisely.

I recall being struck by the stark difference when first I saw it.

And, there are definite socio-economic differences that shouldn't be ignored.

[Coop's]

Amwood you remember recently i wrote a reply and i mentioned about parents in the US,this is what i was talking about,i understood your response because i know they can be a pain in the butt but this is where most of our problems in Youth Football are.
   

Coop's Parents in the US for the most part have to be there because they have to drive to the fields. It's a different culture. In T&T we travel, therefore it is more feasible for the player to find there way than the whole family travel. A kid at 14 in T&T often has more responsibility than a kid in a rural area in the US. At 16 years in T&T most times a kid out of school and looking to fend for themselves whereas in the states a 16 year old is still a Sophomore/Junior in High School and depending on mom and dad. You see many of these same kids showing up for games and don't even know there schedule.

American parents pay for coaching so therefore they want to see what they are getting. Look at the difference in how parents operate for school soccer as oppose to travel soccer.

     I agree to a certain extent with all of what u said here but don't tell me US parents are at Soccer because they have to drive their kids to the fields,from my experiences that's not true,when a club needs volunteers for any activities parents are quick to respond,very rear they miss a club meeting,you don't have problems when it comes to registration of kids,paying for tournaments,Summer Camps etc etc

    You realize the response the turnout for this event had,i wonder if it's because of our culture the onus is on kids to know about the event,find themselves there,have the necessary equipment,something to eat,what about kids coming from South,Central etc etc no parents involved? 

[elan]

Amwood you remember recently i wrote a reply and i mentioned about parents in the US,this is what i was talking about,i understood your response because i know they can be a pain in the butt but this is where most of our problems in Youth Football are.
   

Coop's Parents in the US for the most part have to be there because they have to drive to the fields. It's a different culture. In T&T we travel, therefore it is more feasible for the player to find there way than the whole family travel. A kid at 14 in T&T often has more responsibility than a kid in a rural area in the US. At 16 years in T&T most times a kid out of school and looking to fend for themselves whereas in the states a 16 year old is still a Sophomore/Junior in High School and depending on mom and dad. You see many of these same kids showing up for games and don't even know there schedule.

American parents pay for coaching so therefore they want to see what they are getting. Look at the difference in how parents operate for school soccer as oppose to travel soccer.

     I agree to a certain extent with all of what u said here but don't tell me US parents are at Soccer because they have to drive their kids to the fields,from my experiences that's not true,when a club needs volunteers for any activities parents are quick to respond,very rear they miss a club meeting,you don't have problems when it comes to registration of kids,paying for tournaments,Summer Camps etc etc

    You realize the response the turnout for this event had,i wonder if it's because of our culture the onus is on kids to know about the event,find themselves there,have the necessary equipment,something to eat,what about kids coming from South,Central etc etc no parents involved? 

Coop's did you ever pay attention as to why parents volunteer. Many of them. This is something I look at very closely. Why US parents are so involved? Look at the approach of US parents to school soccer as opposed to club soccer. What is the underlying motivation?

Question, how many of those youth players have played in front of 200 supporters? 300, 500, 1000? When I show US kid a clip of a high school game and the supporters in the stands, they ask if that is a football (pointyball) game.
Plus and minuses Coop's

[Coop's]

Elan,you kidding me right? i don't know what part of the US you talking about but again my experiences are different.

I will take u to any HS,Elementary School,ODP,State Cup,Tournament etc etc in Va,Maryland and Washington DC you get good turnouts,check UVa is sell out every game.

I know u are saying parents are involved because of the opportunities for scholarships for their kids but in T&T our kids have the same opportunities but where are the parents?   

[amwood]

Heading to the coach's seminar tomorrow with the
Man U instructors, hoping to catch some video
And will post it and a little report as well..

[asylumseeker]

 

Heading to the coach's seminar tomorrow with the
Man U instructors, hoping to catch some video
And will post it and a little report as well..

... there's a coaching seminar? Well, that mitigates low turnout at the previous event you mentioned. Perhaps everyone was waiting fuh dat.

[asylumseeker]

...
Coop's did you ever pay attention as to why parents volunteer. Many of them. This is something I look at very closely. Why US parents are so involved? Look at the approach of US parents to school soccer as opposed to club soccer. What is the underlying motivation?

...

Self-interest. Tacit influence within the club. Leverage. One-upmanship on other parents. Shizzle like that.

[asylumseeker]

... who we need to pay is the Adminstrators and Organizers of some small club to come and teach us how to manage with very little, how to keep things organized and moving forward ...

There's something to this.

[elan]

Elan,you kidding me right? i don't know what part of the US you talking about but again my experiences are different.

I will take u to any HS,Elementary School,ODP,State Cup,Tournament etc etc in Va,Maryland and Washington DC you get good turnouts,check UVa is sell out every game.

I know u are saying parents are involved because of the opportunities for scholarships for their kids but in T&T our kids have the same opportunities but where are the parents?   

Coop's I'll go personal.

I used to into track and field. After a while I started competing in Jr. Champs, Carifta trials, etc. My training was all about me. How much I wanted to be good. My parents never pushed me to do it or to continue to do it. I use to train after school with a fell who use to "run". Then we joined a club a good ways from home. I would be able to attend once a week, sometimes twice a month. I will try and go as often as possible because the Club coach had the experience and knowledge. I would attend training and not have money for my return trip. I would "hop drop" at 14, 15, 16 years old. We will finish train sometimes after 7 pm and I had to make my way home. Most times I wouldn't eat anything after breakfast at home. I will take my lunch money to travel. Sometimes we will have girls with us and we had to ensure that they got home so we will pay the taxi and let them go, cause in the night is rush for taxi and after certain hours yuh lucky to get anything.

Sometimes if we had extra we will put up after practice and buy a hot bag of hops bread from the bakery with a piece of cheese and we would share that and we were kings.

Now, was my parents not supportive? Hell yes they were. Just not by the American standard. My mom was proud that I was competing in the National Stadium, so to my dad. My dad never saw me run a race. People would tell him how fast I was, or when he read little clipping in the newspaper. My dad had to work. He did not have time to "hold my hand" and make sure my spikes were in my bag or I knew what time my events were scheduled for.

We would travel up to PoS and then walk to the HCS, after we compete we will walk back into town and then make our way home. Sometimes I won't get home for days sleeping on the floor at pardners home or at cousins who lived nearby the stadium or town. Does that mean my parents weren't concerned?

To say that parents are not concerned or involved is not true. You can't just use the US standards in T&T, can't won't work. Let's flip the script. How many clubs wish that parents would just back off and leave the children be. You were a DoC, I am sure one of your requirements was to put together Parents Education Workshops. Many parents in T&T don't know how to go about securing a scholarship for their child. Why? Because they have never been exposed to such experiences. there are players on the NT who don't know how to secure a scholarship or the process. How many kids are very good and are desirous to play college ball but have not taken or know how to sign up to take SAT or ACT. So to say US parents and T&T parents have the opportunities is absolutely wrong. Many kids who are heading of to college from T&T are First Generation College Students. That say a lot Coop's.

[maxg]

not an easy life story elan..but let me ask you this...
If your dad or mom, or both, before or after work, rush down to meet and observe you train, farless perform. Made sure you had travel money/lunch, even not eating themselves to make sure you did, even the right foods. Work double shifts to ensure you get dem new spikes. Organize lift, lunches and whatever you required, even holding back a lot from themselves, siblings or whoever..how fast or far would you have run, if even just to show appreciation or not let them down ?

and you are absolutely correct, it's not an indication of they don't care..nb: this was not my point..My point is those NA parents ARE there, wheter by design, affordability or choice. Her in Can, not all, all the time, but at Regional levels 60 to 80 % of the time, and they bringing grands & friends too.

This is who we have to compete against, and although we can match those athletes in ability, it's sometimes difficult to match in commitment, it's the reality.
In swimming, I know a man here with 4 daughters, all swimming at the big club in the region..mean big dollars.. He's originally from Barbados(older fella), wife from phillipines. $1,200/child, besides other expenses over the year - school, winter..whatever, .. I have 3, and couldn't figure how he doing it He doh have no big job, and close to retirement, so they wanted to lay him off, which he had to fight for..she's a stay at home mom, couldn't afford babysitter, now she's driver.. Ah say B how u doing that boy ? He say, he works some extra shifts, he canvass everybody at work, he gets whatever welfare/assistance he can get..them girls all in the top 20 in the province..he or his wife or both,at every meet. You should see these girls perform..pure heart, besides they damn good.. Besides that they rewarding him with Honour roll too.., they may never make no National team (they could make Barbados if he pursue it - i already told him)..then the club because of their performance, ease him up with 2 of the girls club fees...but you know what..they not in the mall, they not finding way home and eating properly, they don't have time to slack off or relax..they going down the road all together, almost all the time. When I see he manage that, plenty ppl round him, can't complain bout the long hours at the pool or the driving..and they doing it too..including me..even if i feel he half crack..i now 1/3 mad, cause i doing just like everybody..

that is the type of commitment our athletes have to compete against..so yes, different region, differnt environment, even different goals..Swimming don't have no big money, especially if yuh mediocre on a world setting..he just hoping for a scholarship for them..better believe he on top of that..he only have a tech. Degree at Junior college..them girls do everything they can to make the man proud..and he making sure he dey to let ppl know he and them know he is..
but the fact remains..we maybe able to match them on the field, but the off the field stuff..is where they will outlast us..so your story kinda supports my point..not that our tt athletes parents don't want to..but they are not there

[dreamer]

Very informative discussion, that in it's brave attempt to wrestle with what hard-to-put-your-finger-on-it traits are keeping our sportsmen/women and certain sport sectors from thriving, will eventually get into the maybe complex psychosocial cultural handicaps in the society which are possibly at the root cause of underachievement and failure. Once you start this, it eh stopping .... and that may represent progress and growth. Real good reservoir of information with several of the posters.

[Football supporter]

Some interesting points here.
Elan, the cream will always rise to the top, but as Coops and others point out, the more support a kid gets, the more likely he is to succeed.
A kid may be the smartest in his class, but with extra tuition, he could be the smartest in the school.
Nobody is saying that parents in T&T don't care, but I do feel that many don't understand what support is needed or how to provide it.
The USA does seem to have a culture in society that demands more from their children than the previous generation. And parents feel it important that their kids get as much as possible even if it means that the parents work harder.
I used to hate being on the sidelines on a bitterly cold winter morning to watch my son play. My reason for doing it was that my Dad never bothered, and that hurt.
But I often ask players "where are your family and friends" at games. If every player had 3 or 4 people cheering him on, that would be an extra 100 supporters at a game. I can't believe that friends and family don't go to watch their boys play professional football.
We have to educate parents to support their kids. Maybe make games a more social occasion. We would organise discos and BBQs to raise money for the team. I remember once that we had a Mums vs Dads football match with the Dads wearing womens clothes to raise money!!

[Coop's]

I like what this post has turned into,Elan a lot of us have personal stories like what you have given us here,it's life lessons we experienced that have us the way we are today.

I will only give a snipit of what i went through,in my early days it had the Train,i used to hop the Train in San Juan drop off in POS and walk to the Savannah to practice,play games or sometimes watch a game in front the Grand Stand.It even had one occasion when i road my bike from San Juan to Cocorite to a practice session with Paragon,my parents never knew of that one. 

[congo]

What about the differences in family structures that exist between NA and Trinidad and Tobago. NA promotes and cherishes family time. They pride themselves on keeping the family together. I think the group would frown upon a parent or parents who neglects their children's games and don't go to see their games etc. The thing with trini parents is they just don't have the time or the flexibility. They are too busy putting food on the table and the little time they do have they take it as rest. I think family structure plays a crucial part in getting everyone out on a sunday morning to watch a game. I bet those same NA family would also go to the cinema, dining and recitals together. So it doesn't really come down to supporting just a game. It's about family time and being together as a group.

[Deeks]

This has turned into an interesting topic. I have experienced both side of this. Growing up in St.Joseph by WASA we used to play and watch football in the savannah. All we used to tell our parents. " we going in the savannah"... reply was "doh come back too late....". That was enough approval from then for me. My mother never see me play football in TT. She used to work from 7am till about 5 or 6 pm. My step-father working Wasa. Would get call all hours to go and fix busted pipe. My moms said she was travelling in a bus and heard my name over the radio aguy was listening to QRC-Saints game. The first time my Moms see me paly was in Toronto. She came from DC to see me play with the youth team.

Now, when my kids got into activities, I became a Beltway(495) bandit on weekeds. I was carrying my kids and other kids to games. The parents would take turns. Then there were games in Virginia Beach, NJ, Philly, Florida, Carolina. Then my Moms was the biggest supporter. She used to be on most of the trips. She now had the time to do that.

Long ago there was individul determination to be a good, great, best at football. There was a structure in place to channel your dreams. It was not like US or England, but somehow when you go to St. Joseph savannah, Aranguez, QPS, Orange grove, Constantine and Honeymoon, the place full of ballers. Not so today. Everything is structured and marketed. I see FS and them doing all this marketing and PR. 30 yrs ago, " Aye, FS and them forming ah new team... leh we go and check them out". About a thous. peepull around the field. "Sharks, Sharks .... bite then Police backside". People, it is a different era. We have to change. We have o be organize and utilize all the business techniques to ru a football organize. Anything less than that, you is ah rumshop side.

[Dutty]

It even had one occasion when i road my bike from San Juan to Cocorite

 

Breds you shoulda done wit football right there & then.
better yuh did ride to the Arima Velodrome and start trainin to get on de cyclin team

[elan]

The USA does seem to have a culture in society that demands more from their children than the previous generation. And parents feel it important that their kids get as much as possible even if it means that the parents work harder.

The other way around FS. In the US they are not demanding more from their children. Parents are present to ensure that their children are given what they pay for aka playing time. That another kid does not receive more than their kid. To ensure that their kid does not encounter to much emotional stress. As much as there is a big participation in sport, so to is the drop out rate. You see players club hopping because parents think their kid is being taken advantage of in the present club aka not given enough playing time or not playing on the Premier team.

They are ever present "preparing the path" for their kids.

not an easy life story elan..but let me ask you this...
If your dad or mom, or both, before or after work, rush down to meet and observe you train, farless perform. Made sure you had travel money/lunch, even not eating themselves to make sure you did, even the right foods. Work double shifts to ensure you get dem new spikes. Organize lift, lunches and whatever you required, even holding back a lot from themselves, siblings or whoever..how fast or far would you have run, if even just to show appreciation or not let them down ?

and you are absolutely correct, it's not an indication of they don't care..nb: this was not my point..My point is those NA parents ARE there, wheter by design, affordability or choice. Her in Can, not all, all the time, but at Regional levels 60 to 80 % of the time, and they bringing grands & friends too.

This is who we have to compete against, and although we can match those athletes in ability, it's sometimes difficult to match in commitment, it's the reality.
In swimming, I know a man here with 4 daughters, all swimming at the big club in the region..mean big dollars.. He's originally from Barbados(older fella), wife from phillipines. $1,200/child, besides other expenses over the year - school, winter..whatever, .. I have 3, and couldn't figure how he doing it He doh have no big job, and close to retirement, so they wanted to lay him off, which he had to fight for..she's a stay at home mom, couldn't afford babysitter, now she's driver.. Ah say B how u doing that boy ? He say, he works some extra shifts, he canvass everybody at work, he gets whatever welfare/assistance he can get..them girls all in the top 20 in the province..he or his wife or both,at every meet. You should see these girls perform..pure heart, besides they damn good.. Besides that they rewarding him with Honour roll too.., they may never make no National team (they could make Barbados if he pursue it - i already told him)..then the club because of their performance, ease him up with 2 of the girls club fees...but you know what..they not in the mall, they not finding way home and eating properly, they don't have time to slack off or relax..they going down the road all together, almost all the time. When I see he manage that, plenty ppl round him, can't complain bout the long hours at the pool or the driving..and they doing it too..including me..even if i feel he half crack..i now 1/3 mad, cause i doing just like everybody..

that is the type of commitment our athletes have to compete against..so yes, different region, differnt environment, even different goals..Swimming don't have no big money, especially if yuh mediocre on a world setting..he just hoping for a scholarship for them..better believe he on top of that..he only have a tech. Degree at Junior college..them girls do everything they can to make the man proud..and he making sure he dey to let ppl know he and them know he is..
but the fact remains..we maybe able to match them on the field, but the off the field stuff..is where they will outlast us..so your story kinda supports my point..not that our tt athletes parents don't want to..but they are not there

 I did not see it or feel that it was hard or difficult. I understood (somehow) that if I wanted to be good then I had to get it done. Many of my friends had similar belief.

 I am not dealing with kids who play and then land where ever they land. These players make up the majority of kids involved in Sports in the US. They participate until they get tired of it. I see so many kids and their parents spend thousands of dollars traveling playing, training and then at 16-17 the players decides that's it I'm done. The parents were present. The off the field stuff is what makes the athlete, the person. Many of the kids who has to not worry do exactly that, not worry, because they know that they can quit anytime.


(Dealing with Outliers) Personally I don't think that the support of the parent (read being ever present) is the difference maker. I believe the opportunities, the quality of the opportunities and the frequency of the opportunities is the difference maker in regards to our kids and the US kids. By the time a player make a NT in the US, that player is very experienced and well traveled. That player has gotten accustom to waking up in a strange place and going out and perform. Our kids not so much.

For the most part these are the type of people being raised by Helicopter parenting

[elan]

Right now there is a big push to find a way to get players from "the ghettos" to participate in soccer because they show great[er] resilience to adversity and "they" possess a desire to succeed.

[Tiresais]

Yea that happens all over though - the working class are over-represented in the majority of footballing countries

[maxg]

quote author=elan link=topic=40494.msg879322#msg879322 date=1387340651]

"The other way around FS. In the US they are not demanding more from their children. Parents are present to ensure that their children are given what they pay for aka playing time. That another kid does not receive more than their kid. To ensure that their kid does not encounter to much emotional stress. As much as there is a big participation in sport, so to is the drop out rate. You see players club hopping because parents think their kid is being taken advantage of in the present club aka not given enough playing time or not playing on the Premier team.
They are ever present "preparing the path" for their kids.



.....(Dealing with Outliers) Personally I don't think that the support of the parent (read being ever present) is the difference maker. I believe the opportunities, the quality of the opportunities and the frequency of the opportunities is the difference maker in regards to our kids and the US kids. By the time a player make a NT in the US, that player is very experienced and well traveled. That player has gotten accustom to waking up in a strange place and going out and perform. Our kids not so much.

For the most part these are the type of people being raised by Helicopter parenting

Totally agree with these comments..will add, things i noticed.
1.the ppl that are doing the sport as a family activity are rarely part of the high drop out rate..In both football, basketball and swimming, I haven't observed any of them stopped yet. As a matter of fact. one of my college baketball &track teammates, son is on the Ntl team, and they still all play pickup fathers and sons..oh and a couple daughters too..and he did the same degree as I, and he is the sports director at our college, as well as women's basketball coach.
2. At 16-17, if a player is not on at least a regional team by then, chances are they not going to make it as a career or gain a scholarship (remember the numbers), and better be getting on with life. Many still play recreation/house league, but then that depends on the sport and friends and new future path, as more time on their hands. So yes, many drop out, but the SPORT is not able to support many.
3. Some dropouts do occur, because of burnouts, from over-coaching or i see in some cases over-involvement by parents. nb: I can't speak for American Parents, they might be worse..but Canadian Parents are usually laid back..except when it come to hockey in Quebec, if they have a french background, or football in Toronto, and they have a brit background. Anything can happen. Yes, there are droputs at this level, but you must agree that at this point, the ones who stick, are those that are best prepared as they could possibly be, in that environment..without going the communist way. No matter if, the suport was due to self-interest, love of sport, community support, whatever..there is more preparation occuring, because of parental involvement...they ensure to the best of there ability
"believe the opportunities, the quality of the opportunities and the frequency of the opportunities is the difference maker in regards to our kids and the US kids."
4. in addition of the numbers that stick, let's say 2%..I'm guessing..1 %, of 100 k in my city alone, is still 1000 well trained, well prepared athletes. When a coach have to select from all these ppl a National team, even if he make a mistake, or do a friend thing, he still selecting a well prepared athlete..

I never heard the Helicopter parenting term. I will read up on it..thanks. add: ok..got it

[maxg]

just realize we hijack the thread, just to keep things in perspective, i prefer the Bagosports initiative. 

[King Deese]

United coaches urge winning mentality
T&T Newsday

Manchester United top skills development coaches Eamon Mulvey and Kevin Ward, urged Trinidad and Tobago Primary School coaches to give their young players a chance to express themselves on the field.

Interesting statement.

FS, you said in a previous thread that coaches in the pro league discourage their players from expressing themselves on the pitch and that coaches coach not to lose the game, so when these SSFL coaches allow their kids to express themselves on the pitch and they encourage flair and promote a winning mentality in their game, what happens to them, the players, when they get to the pro league only to find out that that kind of thing is not condoned and that coaches don't know how to coach to win the game? What kind of message are coaches in the pro league sending to these potential pro leaguers?

"The reason we're here is to share a little of what we do back home," he told the Sunday Express yesterday. "After that, it's just a matter of what they do with what they've learned."

This is another interesting statement. I, for one, don't believe that these numbskulls will do anything with this information. Past results and a history of incompetence would support my belief. Until they produce champions in a major tournament, I am not going to think otherwise.

[elan]

Don't get me wrong, parenting involvement is tantamount to success. But I believe parental support in resources and opportunities is much more essential than being present. As kids gets older the effects of parental involvement changes. Kids start determining through  self assessment in relations to their peers how well they are progressing in the sport. At the preadolescence ages parents feedback are more important than the teenage years.

Also, parental support and feedback will affect the kid according to parents 1. Bias (whether they think boys are better than girls in sports as boys tend to get more and better opportunities than girls)  2. The level of knowledge the parents have about the sport and, 3. How well the parent think the kid is doing at the sport.

You are correct in that kids whose parents are involved tend to participate longer in the sport (especially in girls). However, it does not necessarily make the difference in successful outcomes.

At the higher level of soccer in the US they limit parental involvement/interaction with the kids at events. At ODP Region Camp parents are limited to the lobby of the dorms, at the fields as minimum as possible interaction and parents cannot take kids to eat of go shop or do other stuff. There was a girl on a National team trip overseas, one night her parents thought she needed to have a break from the hotel and took her shopping and bought her a puppy. She was dropped.

They take kids out of their element to see which kids are self reliant. Many kids go on trips and get homesick, they struggle to organize themselves, they stress out during travel as they have to lug their own stuff and keep up with everything themselves. You see at ODP event mom dragging along kids suit cases and water, etc while the kid socialize. Last year at region camp they specifically told parents NOT to go up to the rooms of the girls. A couple dad and mom stood until they could sneak up to the room. The administrator had to embarrass the parents. The parents wanted to make sure the kids knew what to do and to see where their room were.

So yes, the parental involvement is important, but the opportunities that a kid receive is even more important.

[elan]

United coaches urge winning mentality
T&T Newsday

Manchester United top skills development coaches Eamon Mulvey and Kevin Ward, urged Trinidad and Tobago Primary School coaches to give their young players a chance to express themselves on the field.

Interesting statement.

FS, you said in a previous thread that coaches in the pro league discourage their players from expressing themselves on the pitch and that coaches coach not to lose the game, so when these SSFL coaches allow their kids to express themselves on the pitch and they encourage flair and promote a winning mentality in their game, what happens to them, the players, when they get to the pro league only to find out that that kind of thing is not condoned and that coaches don't know how to coach to win the game? What kind of message are coaches in the pro league sending to these potential pro leaguers?

"The reason we're here is to share a little of what we do back home," he told the Sunday Express yesterday. "After that, it's just a matter of what they do with what they've learned."

This is another interesting statement. I, for one, don't believe that these numbskulls will do anything with this information. Past results and a history of incompetence would support my belief. Until they produce champions in a major tournament, I am not going to think otherwise.

Youth players are encouraged to express themselves on the field so that they can learn the game, build confidence, improve technique, develop game sophistication and develop a love for the game.

At the Pro level These aspects of the game should be already developed. The Pro level is about results, therefore, you will allow a youth player to dribble in front their goal, at the Pro level you want the ball away. You think Moyes wants Ferdinand doing a spanner in front of DeGea?

[Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$]

3. Some dropouts do occur, because of burnouts, from over-coaching or i see in some cases over-involvement by parents.

I know a telented footballer who we were once tracking right here on this site at the age of 20 just up and quit!  I was disappointed because I am close with the fam and saw the tremendous potential.  A left footer with silky touches, deceptive speed and good at shooting with both feet, in my eyes he would have ben excellent in the NT set up.  When I asked him what happened he said he just don't want to play anymore.  He was playing from since small and his father played overseas and once he had children he started grooming them.  His last son who probably had the highest potential didn't want anything to do with it even before becoming a teenager.  Parents overinvolvement can be equally detrimental.

[maxg]

Elan..Yes, there are bad/poor parental support and there are good. But in the end result..the final analysis there is an excellent developed and supported athlete. The original point was..our athletes do not recieve enough, just leaving it to the coaches is not enough. Sure there are pros & cons with everything,(overeating the healthiest of foods not healthy). Yet, if i'm not mistaken, when we were trying not to blame our girls/coaches for losing terribly, part of argument was the level of support from outside the adminstration..so sure no support and follow up from friends and family is better than BAD/IMproper support..but GOOD & Properly organized support is better than NONE or to little. I think this is something our TT athletes, girls especially, could benefit greatly. Sure here have a majority of parents who just drop off and run off to run errands or whatever btw things they need to do..but not because of the 5 parents that stick around and participate in the good and required assistance needed by the coach, if needed at all, does not  mean 1 of those parent kids turn out to be a star, at all. What it does mean to those kids though, is some ppl care and interested in what they are doing...

there is a parent here, whose son and my son is best friends, he is taking pride from that, because my son is quite the potential star in swimming, and although his son is really a non-athlete, though plays hockey ..they eat lunch together, practice kungfu at the same gym,and basically hangout...and as he says to other parents, the association with his son, is keeping my son real - his son watches that he do the right stuff at school (walks the right path,etc)..and although it may be a little over the top, he is mostly correct..I do believe, it takes a community to raise a child (athletic or not)...not just a parent or coach.. I just think in TT the Friend & Family involvement and support could & should be encouraged and improved on..and every effort should be mad to get parents/friends more involved, within established & organized limits, of course, and I believe it will help in our athletes development..so it's not blaming the current athletes or parents, but trying to find ways to increase development & performance, without upping the training and burning out...let the training decision be the coaches, let the physical and mental preparation and readiness for training be the relatives & friends of the sport..even if not friends of the individual athlete.

add: When I was in TT (not recently, this occured about 13 yrs ago), I saw in papers, there would be a Ntl U 17 boys team practice at CoE. I grabbed my 3 yr old, asked directions, took taxi, and went...i wrote up this story before.. the security asked me if i mad... nobody does come to see practice, he wanted to know what I up to..He not letting me in.. I asked to see MR Warner..he said sure go ahead..Mr Warner ask me why..I said I was an interested foreign coach.. I was coaching a women snr team at the time.. he say, oh, so yuh scouting ..uuhhh yea, that's it...he say go  on in man...cause, nobody don't come to watch no practice just so...well that have to change, every interested body in TT should go...don't wait till the big game to act all surprised and wonder what really going on...oops paragraphs..oh well

find it : http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=26635.msg297826#msg297826

[King Deese]

United coaches urge winning mentality
T&T Newsday

Manchester United top skills development coaches Eamon Mulvey and Kevin Ward, urged Trinidad and Tobago Primary School coaches to give their young players a chance to express themselves on the field.

Interesting statement.

FS, you said in a previous thread that coaches in the pro league discourage their players from expressing themselves on the pitch and that coaches coach not to lose the game, so when these SSFL coaches allow their kids to express themselves on the pitch and they encourage flair and promote a winning mentality in their game, what happens to them, the players, when they get to the pro league only to find out that that kind of thing is not condoned and that coaches don't know how to coach to win the game? What kind of message are coaches in the pro league sending to these potential pro leaguers?

"The reason we're here is to share a little of what we do back home," he told the Sunday Express yesterday. "After that, it's just a matter of what they do with what they've learned."

This is another interesting statement. I, for one, don't believe that these numbskulls will do anything with this information. Past results and a history of incompetence would support my belief. Until they produce champions in a major tournament, I am not going to think otherwise.

Youth players are encouraged to express themselves on the field so that they can learn the game, build confidence, improve technique, develop game sophistication and develop a love for the game.

At the Pro level These aspects of the game should be already developed. The Pro level is about results, therefore, you will allow a youth player to dribble in front their goal, at the Pro level you want the ball away. You think Moyes wants Ferdinand doing a spanner in front of DeGea?

“Dribbling in front of their goal. At the pro level you want the ball away”. What?. Who said anything about dribbling in front of their goal?

Ferdinand doing a spanner in front of DeGea?

Wait. You have a thing against Ferdinand or what? Why Ferdinand? What about the other 3 defenders?  What about the other  9 players on the field besides Ferdinand? Which of them would you like to have do a spanner in front of DeGea?  What does Ferdinand have to do with spanners or flair for that matter?

You misunderstood my post.
 
Okay, so let us address flair and free expression for a second.Flair is a welcomed part of the game. Ask the Brazilians or the Argentinians or Columbians and /or some of the other teams around the world that welcome flair and dribbling the ball in it’s correct context, they will tell you no lie. It is a means to a positive end.  It is a weapon that is practiced and mastered by those in skilled offensive or attacking positions to gain an advantage on the defender. Never to be overdone or misused, a la Trinidad and Tobago footballers. By the way, Trinidad, historically, has been littered with footballers who never really understood the right context in which it is necessary. This is a conversation better left to argue on another day, and yes, it is most welcomed by everyone around the world including coaches and the paying audiences and yes, even Coach Mayes, Élan. It’s something that brings excitement to the game that fans would pay to see executed correctly and quickly and in its right place as well as to see their favorite team win the game.

That is probably another reason why fans in Trinidad don’t come out to watch the games because the football is boring, slow and lacking in flair and dribbling in its heavenly glory, free flowing expression if you will, at a fast pace, by attacking players who apply devastating dribbling skills in its right context with deadly precision, is a beautiful thing to watch, relative to watching a game played by skilled players employed by members of Europe’s aristocracy in Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona, Real Madrid, ManU, or South American giants in Sao Paulo, Corinthians, Boca, River, etc. Football players in these leagues are true professionals that are paid millions of dollars who are not afraid to take risks, not afraid to sensationally express themselves on the pitch to achieve that ultimate goal, winning. These are professionals who must perfect their dribbling skills and their defensive skills relative to their positions to maintain their razor’s edge. It is a training that involves high intensity repetitions to prepare for future oppositions in or outside of their respective leagues. It is about winning because there are millions of dollars at stake. Something that the so called professional in the pro league knows nothing about.  Joevin Jones’ recent trial at Udinese is a prime example of that lack of preparedness and ignorance. WConection’s and Caledonia’s recent abysmal performances in the CCL being a prime example of that huge continental divide in preparedness and education as far as the stakes involved in representing your league in a professional manner. In the pro league footballers play for peanuts and they are not allowed to express themselves, which defeats the purpose of this coaching seminar by these ManU coaches. Do you think that Coach Moyes would tell Ronaldo or Messi or Ribery or Robbens or Gotze or Neymar or Iniesta, that they cannot express themselves in and around the opposition’s penalty box? You and Coach Moyes would not last very long.

To my surprise, there is a perception that coaches in the pro league don’t coach to win the game, they coach not to lose the game. There is a stark difference between the two that manifests itself in poor attendances in the local professional game and poor performances in tournaments outside of the pro league, where teams from the pro league don’t properly represent football in TnT. They are at best, floor mats and three easy points. There is no fight, no challenge, no professionalism, no bite. These are teams without a backbone, coached by coaches who don’t know how to win in tournaments outside of the pro league. Coaches in the pro league especially, must be able to put their players in a position to excel and to express themselves in the right context on and off the ball. These coaches have a responsibility to take the baton from the SSFL coaches and excel with it. Anything less than that is really defeating the whole purpose of these foreign coaches coming to Trinidad and Tobago to talk about letting the kids express themselves on the football pitch. You are wasting somebody’s time and money. WCConnection, the best team in the league right now, just played Central FC in the FA Cup final. 500 people came out to watch them play. Something is wrong here.

Yeah, you can even argue about Joe Public and WConnection doing something outside of the pro league but that’s all they did.  Something.  Some people on this forum are big fans of rankings. The pro league is ranked 10th in CONCACAF. How is that possible?  How many pro leagues are there in the CONCACAF region? Something is wrong here. How many coaches in the pro league ever actually played in a World Cup? One. Fenwick. He is a big disappointment and a misnomer. His stint at Jabloteh was great in the sense that he nurtured Hyland, Peltier and Guerra, but his record in the CCL is abysmal. Had Fenwick been in the EPL, he would have been fired.