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Author Topic: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play  (Read 5346 times)

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Offline KND2

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Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« on: December 20, 2005, 08:56:35 AM »
Playing to come out of a group is an art in it of itself

It is a lot different than playing Head to head or playing in the hex.

Our performance in the Gold Cup was poor and we could not recover to come out of the group even though we had great expectations.

Our limited experience in group type play will hurt us.

Unless we are able to start strong and beat sweeden we will have problems because chasing the game will not help our defensive situation against paraguary or England.

Our Entire focus must be to find a way to pick up points against Sweeden and paraguary.

for group play you have to play from in front
We cannot come on strong like we did in the Hex

if we dont start strong it will be impossible to recover.



 

Offline morvant

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2005, 08:58:12 AM »
if scotty didnt have any problems then we woulda been better
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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2005, 08:59:09 AM »
So wait nah..we first three games is not group play?

Offline spideybuff

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2005, 09:09:42 AM »
So wait nah..the hex wasn't a group?
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Offline g

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2005, 09:19:56 AM »
I think the point he is trying to make is that you have more games to recover from a bad start in a group of 6 playing home and away with 3 and a half positions to advance than a group of 4 with just one off games with two advancing positions. Yea i kinda agree, we must try to come out as strong as possible from the onset.
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Offline duscam

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2005, 09:27:35 AM »
duh

truetrini

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2005, 09:28:19 AM »
so in group pla yuh doh do de same thing?  come out strong get points early, qualify first and put de pressure on de odder teams?

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Offline Marcos

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2005, 09:43:24 AM »
dis post is mess
d hex is a group
we were in a group b4 dat
and we play in plenty gold cups, and therefore plenty group-type situations
so i eh know where dis man comin from
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Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2005, 09:52:29 AM »
Playing to come out of a group is an art in it of itself

It is a lot different than playing Head to head or playing in the hex.

Our performance in the Gold Cup was poor and we could not recover to come out of the group even though we had great expectations.

Our limited experience in group type play will hurt us.

Unless we are able to start strong and beat sweeden we will have problems because chasing the game will not help our defensive situation against paraguary or England.

Our Entire focus must be to find a way to pick up points against Sweeden and paraguary.

for group play you have to play from in front
We cannot come on strong like we did in the Hex

if we dont start strong it will be impossible to recover.


You're making a decent point, but you have it all back to front.

First of all, the Hex was a group. In fact, it is more of a group than the first round of the world cup

The times when we performed well in the Hex were the times when the games were almost identical to straight elimination games.

The world cup however is an elimination tournament. It is not a league, where the number of points determines your position at the end of the "season". The first round affords each team 3 games to avoid elimination.....after that it's single match elimination. The points system in the first round gives teams a little leverage to be able to play for a draw if need be, but for the most part, teams play for as many points as possible to minimize their chances of elimination. In very very very rare cases, a very tactical team may "intentionally" aim at 2nd place in a group to avoid meeting x or y....but that is an exception.

For teams like Trinidad, in the World Cup there is very little difference between group play and straight elimination. Every game for us will be like an elimination game. I don't think we're strong enough or tactically experienced enough to play for ties or position in our group.

The games that Trinidad played well in in the HEX, were do or die games which were almost identical to straight elimination games.......The argument that we're not tactically strong enough to do well in group play might be justified therefore the nature of the World Cup (all rounds) may actually work in our favour.

Our failure in the Gold Cup had nothing to do with our lack of group play experience. It had to do with our inability to play creative football without some of our key players.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 09:54:25 AM by kicker »
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Offline ribbit

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2005, 09:54:53 AM »
Our Entire focus must be to find a way to pick up points against Sweeden and paraguary.

for group play you have to play from in front
We cannot come on strong like we did in the Hex

if we dont start strong it will be impossible to recover.

if we have to start strong than the most important matches are sweden and england, not sweden and paraguay, right?

in fact, if we doh pick up points against sweden and england, it will not matter what happens with paraguay. that is why beenhakker is focussing on european friendlies. if we doh make a result against sweden and england than we out.

Offline KND2

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2005, 10:09:02 AM »
Call it straight elmination or Group play or what ever

The point is

If you win your first game you are half way there

Your tactics can be safe and sound and wait for chances to score on the break

If you loose your first game you have to go forward and win the second game which will leave us open in the back and may result in easy goals.

We have to play from infront and defend the points we already have,

if we have 3 pts and we play the 2nd game a tie will be taken 2 pts away from opponent as must as gaining 1 point.

But we need the 3 pts to defend in the first place

Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2005, 10:17:22 AM »
Playing to come out of a group is an art in it of itself

It is a lot different than playing Head to head or playing in the hex.

Our performance in the Gold Cup was poor and we could not recover to come out of the group even though we had great expectations.

Our limited experience in group type play will hurt us.

Unless we are able to start strong and beat sweeden we will have problems because chasing the game will not help our defensive situation against paraguary or England.

Our Entire focus must be to find a way to pick up points against Sweeden and paraguary.

for group play you have to play from in front
We cannot come on strong like we did in the Hex

if we dont start strong it will be impossible to recover.



 

The man making a valid point and everyone ready to cut the man throat. What the man is saying is its hard to recover from just playing 3 games than it is to recover when you know you have six games to play. Losing one game could pretty much end all hopes. As I stated before, defense is the area T&T need to focus on in order to stand anychance of advancing. you should start all game with a defensive mindset. that way you have a better chance of ending the game with the one point you start out with. ever heard the saying Defence wins tournaments?

Offline saga pinto

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2005, 10:30:28 AM »
Playing to come out of a group is an art in it of itself

It is a lot different than playing Head to head or playing in the hex.

Our performance in the Gold Cup was poor and we could not recover to come out of the group even though we had great expectations.

Our limited experience in group type play will hurt us.

Unless we are able to start strong and beat sweeden we will have problems because chasing the game will not help our defensive situation against paraguary or England.

Our Entire focus must be to find a way to pick up points against Sweeden and paraguary.

for group play you have to play from in front
We cannot come on strong like we did in the Hex

if we dont start strong it will be impossible to recover.



 

The man making a valid point and everyone ready to cut the man throat. What the man is saying is its hard to recover from just playing 3 games than it is to recover when you know you have six games to play. Losing one game could pretty much end all hopes. As I stated before, defense is the area T&T need to focus on in order to stand anychance of advancing. you should start all game with a defensive mindset. that way you have a better chance of ending the game with the one point you start out with. ever heard the saying Defence wins tournaments?

Defence wins tournaments I concur,but equally the best defence is a great offence.

Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2005, 10:32:22 AM »
Ever heard the saying Defence wins tournaments?

It's "Defense wins Championships"....and it's just a cliche.....not a verse from the bible.......there's no one formula for doing well in the W.C....and the teams with the best defense do NOT always win the W.C.......

 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 10:36:16 AM by kicker »
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Offline andre samuel

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2005, 10:39:42 AM »
was the gold cup really that poor?

1. if colin samuel's shot didnt hit the post against hounduras then we would have won that game.

2. if marvin andrews header didnt hit the post against panama then we would have won that game.

we had one really bad game against columbia.

that would have put us at 6pts and into the quarter finals, and who knows what would have happened after that!

i firmly believe that if nos 1 and 2 took place, all of us would have been pleased with our Gold cup tourny!

ps: KND or KND2, is the gold cup proof that panama can handle group play?? what is good for the goose is good for the gander!!

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Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2005, 10:49:10 AM »
was the gold cup really that poor?

1. if colin samuel's shot didnt hit the post against hounduras then we would have won that game.

2. if marvin andrews header didnt hit the post against panama then we would have won that game.

we had one really bad game against columbia.

that would have put us at 6pts and into the quarter finals, and who knows what would have happened after that!

i firmly believe that if nos 1 and 2 took place, all of us would have been pleased with our Gold cup tourny!

ps: KND or KND2, is the gold cup proof that panama can handle group play?? what is good for the goose is good for the gander!!

ah love it!!

I think the Gold Cup was really bad because we didn't play good football. (especially in the 3rd game). If with a little better luck, we had achieved the results that you spoke about, unless our standard of play improved going forward, it would have just masked how bad the Gold Cup really was.
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2005, 10:57:20 AM »
Ever heard the saying Defence wins tournaments?

It's "Defense wins Championships"....and it's just a cliche.....not a verse from the bible.......there's no one formula for doing well in the W.C....and the teams with the best defense do NOT always win the W.C.......

 

I did say it was a "saying" didnt I. who said it was gospel? try going into a game without your defenders and golaie and see what happens.

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2005, 11:01:04 AM »
was the gold cup really that poor?

1. if colin samuel's shot didnt hit the post against hounduras then we would have won that game.

2. if marvin andrews header didnt hit the post against panama then we would have won that game.

we had one really bad game against columbia.

that would have put us at 6pts and into the quarter finals, and who knows what would have happened after that!

i firmly believe that if nos 1 and 2 took place, all of us would have been pleased with our Gold cup tourny!

ps: KND or KND2, is the gold cup proof that panama can handle group play?? what is good for the goose is good for the gander!!

ah love it!!

I agree with this.  Further, Gold Cup was basically a try-out as Beenie was working with most of the foreign-based for the first time.
Yorke was unavailable, Carlos was injured, Latas was still in retirement.  Whitley get injured at some point if I remember correctly. Whole different team.

Offline Marcos

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2005, 11:05:02 AM »
Goal cup we looked terrible
we never played anything resembling good football
Defense is very important but not the be all and end all
Was Brazil's defense THAT great in 02?
didn't think so

That entire comment about playin without defenders and a goalie is just dumb
Try playin with JUST a goalie and defenders and see what happens
Goal in yuh ass that is what would happen
steups
dumb statement man
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Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2005, 11:07:01 AM »

I did say it was a "saying" didnt I. who said it was gospel? try going into a game without your defenders and golaie and see what happens.

You are so rediculous. geez !! You take everything so literally and you're so sensitive to anything that is said in response to you. Are you a politician ? You want a podium and a rah rah crowd to cheer everything you say ? I wasn't starting a debate with you. I was just saying that it's not as simple as "Defense wins Championships"

Everyone knows that good balance in a team is huge asset especially in modern day football......... tournament or not.

Who are you preaching to ? What you want a pat on your back ? Then go look for some snotty nose lil children in short pants and checkered shirts, and tell them that "Defense wins Championships"....then puff up your chest because they think you're a genius for uttering the one of the most common cliches that they themselves have heard a million times....happy ?
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2005, 11:08:32 AM »

I did say it was a "saying" didnt I. who said it was gospel? try going into a game without your defenders and golaie and see what happens.

You are so rediculous. geez !! You take everything so literally and you're so sensitive to anything that is said in response to you. Are you a politician ? You want a podium and a rah rah crowd to cheer everything you say ? I wasn't starting a debate with you. I was just saying that it's not as simple as "Defense wins Championships"

Everyone knows that good balance in a team is huge asset especially in modern day football tournament or not.

Who are you preaching to ? What you want a pat on your back ? Then go look for some snotty nose lil children in short pants and checkered shirts, and tell them that "Defense wins Championships"....then puff up your chest because they think you're a genius for uttering the one of the most common cliches that they themselves have heard a million times....happy ?

Calm down fella. who is being sensitive, me or you? You agree with me that defense is the most important aspect of soccer? yes or no? stick to the point.

Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2005, 11:09:39 AM »

I did say it was a "saying" didnt I. who said it was gospel? try going into a game without your defenders and golaie and see what happens.

You are so rediculous. geez !! You take everything so literally and you're so sensitive to anything that is said in response to you. Are you a politician ? You want a podium and a rah rah crowd to cheer everything you say ? I wasn't starting a debate with you. I was just saying that it's not as simple as "Defense wins Championships"

Everyone knows that good balance in a team is huge asset especially in modern day football tournament or not.

Who are you preaching to ? What you want a pat on your back ? Then go look for some snotty nose lil children in short pants and checkered shirts, and tell them that "Defense wins Championships"....then puff up your chest because they think you're a genius for uttering the one of the most common cliches that they themselves have heard a million times....happy ?

calm down fella. you are falling in teh trap. you accuse me of being sensitive....and being ultar sensitive in doing so. You agree with me that defense is the most important aspect of soccer? yes or no?

You should check the definition of sensitive....I was appeasing you because you act like a girl all the time.....and no I don't agree that defense is the most important aspect of soccer. I think offense is equally if not more jmportant......tactics are also important....and many many other aspects of the game are as important as solid defensive ability.

most importantly no aspect of the game is mutually exclusive of the other.....
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 11:15:21 AM by kicker »
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Offline ironman

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2005, 11:10:08 AM »
I know hat he trying to say is the getting of points is essential in group play and he is correct,I think we aim to play relatively balanced under Leo and in a four team group points is essential,but some how I sensing negative vibes and  ah strong but yet sublime smell of shit in this post........I could be wrong but........................ :devil:
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2005, 11:11:00 AM »
Goal cup we looked terrible
we never played anything resembling good football
Defense is very important but not the be all and end all
Was Brazil's defense THAT great in 02?
didn't think so

That entire comment about playin without defenders and a goalie is just dumb
Try playin with JUST a goalie and defenders and see what happens
Goal in yuh ass that is what would happen
steups
dumb statement man

that statement is just to highlight the importance of defence. Dont take it too literally

Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2005, 11:13:49 AM »
Goal cup we looked terrible
we never played anything resembling good football
Defense is very important but not the be all and end all
Was Brazil's defense THAT great in 02?
didn't think so

That entire comment about playin without defenders and a goalie is just dumb
Try playin with JUST a goalie and defenders and see what happens
Goal in yuh ass that is what would happen
steups
dumb statement man

RF doh seem too bright.....doh study it.
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2005, 11:15:22 AM »

I did say it was a "saying" didnt I. who said it was gospel? try going into a game without your defenders and golaie and see what happens.

You are so rediculous. geez !! You take everything so literally and you're so sensitive to anything that is said in response to you. Are you a politician ? You want a podium and a rah rah crowd to cheer everything you say ? I wasn't starting a debate with you. I was just saying that it's not as simple as "Defense wins Championships"

Everyone knows that good balance in a team is huge asset especially in modern day football tournament or not.

Who are you preaching to ? What you want a pat on your back ? Then go look for some snotty nose lil children in short pants and checkered shirts, and tell them that "Defense wins Championships"....then puff up your chest because they think you're a genius for uttering the one of the most common cliches that they themselves have heard a million times....happy ?

calm down fella. you are falling in teh trap. you accuse me of being sensitive....and being ultar sensitive in doing so. You agree with me that defense is the most important aspect of soccer? yes or no?

You should check the definition of sensitive....I was appeasing you because you act like a girl all the time.....and no I don't agree that defense is the most important aspect of soccer.

KND started the initial topic, I made a follow up comment, sunndenly, everyone is atacking RF. And I'm th eone who is sensitive?
Regarding defence....you strat out each and every tournament game with one point. You can only lose that one point if your defence is breached. The opposing team CANNOT get more than one point if they cant beat your defence. They could have a million Thiery Henrys, they cannot win teh points if your defense plays true to form. Any coach worth his keeps will tell you that!

Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2005, 11:16:55 AM »
Goal cup we looked terrible
we never played anything resembling good football
Defense is very important but not the be all and end all
Was Brazil's defense THAT great in 02?
didn't think so

That entire comment about playin without defenders and a goalie is just dumb
Try playin with JUST a goalie and defenders and see what happens
Goal in yuh ass that is what would happen
steups
dumb statement man

RF doh seem too bright.....doh study it.

I may very wel be brighter than you from where I sit.  I bet you will agree with me that Sam is bright...simply by virtue of the fact that he thinks T&T will win teh world cup.  ;D

Offline kicker

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2005, 11:17:48 AM »

KND started the initial topic, I made a follow up comment, sunndenly, everyone is atacking RF. And I'm th eone who is sensitive?
Regarding defence....you strat out each and every tournament game with one point. You can only lose that one point if your defence is breached. The opposing team CANNOT get more than one point if they cant beat your defence. They could have a million Thiery Henrys, they cannot win teh points if your defense plays true to form. Any coach worth his keeps will tell you that!

Nobody was attacking you. If someone says something in response to you that is not in full support of your idea, you take it as an attack. There will always be some tongue and cheek in a contradictory response, but that is all in the spirit of argument..stop being so sensitive. It's like it's always that time of the month for you man........the same way you disagree with someone's point of view, someone will disagree with yours....stop being so paranoid.
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Offline palos

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2005, 11:19:18 AM »
was the gold cup really that poor?

1. if colin samuel's shot didnt hit the post against hounduras then we would have won that game.

2. if marvin andrews header didnt hit the post against panama then we would have won that game.

we had one really bad game against columbia.

that would have put us at 6pts and into the quarter finals, and who knows what would have happened after that!

i firmly believe that if nos 1 and 2 took place, all of us would have been pleased with our Gold cup tourny!

ps: KND or KND2, is the gold cup proof that panama can handle group play?? what is good for the goose is good for the gander!!

ah love it!!

Our performance aat the Gold Cup WAS Poor Andre.  No gettin around that.
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Offline Reggaefan

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Re: Gold Cup was proof that we cannot handle group play
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2005, 11:20:33 AM »

KND started the initial topic, I made a follow up comment, sunndenly, everyone is atacking RF. And I'm th eone who is sensitive?
Regarding defence....you strat out each and every tournament game with one point. You can only lose that one point if your defence is breached. The opposing team CANNOT get more than one point if they cant beat your defence. They could have a million Thiery Henrys, they cannot win teh points if your defense plays true to form. Any coach worth his keeps will tell you that!

Nobody was attacking you. If someone says something in response to you that is not in full support of your idea, you take it as an attack. There will always be some tongue and cheek in a contradictory response, but that is all in the spirit of argument..stop being so sensitive. It's like it's always that time of the month for you man........the same way you disagree with someone's point of view, someone will disagree with yours....stop being so paranoid.

I think you have it twisted...the truth is if I make a comment about T&T football that is not a popular comment, men get all riled up. One kid even started a post yesterday about banning me for the messsage board A 14 year old kid. talk about being sensitive. And by teh way, has anyone here ever agreed with my point of view? surely not you!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 11:22:44 AM by Reggaefan »

 

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