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Is Chelsea's dominance hurting the English Premier League?

Yes
7 (18.9%)
No
22 (59.5%)
A Little
7 (18.9%)
Undecided
1 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Chelsea Dominance  (Read 6195 times)

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Offline Touches

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2005, 02:19:21 PM »
Andre lemme show you why I ent giving them all that Pips!

I doe like to make statement just so, I does usually give alyuh a lil thing as to why I does make my statements so here goes.

Look at who Liverpool play. Not really the biggest and the best now but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they IN FORM and are putting up a good run of games.

Liverpool Record over the last few months

Them is Relegation side, Newcomer side and Whipping boys....them is side yuh supposed to beat with second string team and to collect 4 from Chelsea ent helping yuh arguement in this thread.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 02:22:22 PM by Touches »


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Offline Marcos

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2005, 03:25:16 PM »
Check it.
Chelsea has only won one title in this current run.
Spending the most amount of money doesn't make you a dominant team.
If anything I would say the other 2 top teams, Man U and Arsenal have fallen off a bit.
They both lost key players and kinda struggling to either create a new identity or hold on to the old one.
When Chelsea goes undefeated for long periods of time like AC back in d early nineties then we can talk about dominance
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Offline Filho

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2005, 05:05:15 PM »
Chelsea have the makings of a dynasty, but they eh dominate nuttin' yet. They win the EPL and the Carling Cup last year and the Charity Shield at the start of the current season (2 of those trophies is kinda jokes).

True Chelsea have real money, but it has not necessarily bought the world's best talent. It has bought depth and dependability at every position, but you cannot really say it is all down to the money. Mourinho has created a disciplined, tactically sound, hard working team that is capable of flashes of brilliance...but man for man, there are better teams in Europe. I have to give the coach his due.

There is also a level of xenophobia in England regarding Abramovic and foreign coaches such as Mourinho and Wenger. The press resently refers to Chelsea as 'Chelski' form time to time because of ts Russian owner. It's all tongue in cheek but betrays an underlying resentment that would not have been there if the money came from a wealthy Englishman. 

As for attendance being down...English fans think the EPL is as exciting as ever. They just can't afford to go anymore. Attendances were so great in the last few years, clubs have gotten greedy and went for the gold, not realizing that at some point even the biggest fans will say no-way

Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2005, 05:16:47 PM »
In reply to g

I don't agree that Lampard is the best in his position. Actually, I don't even believe he is the best in his position in the EPL. Lampard is a very good footballer who is being hyped to the max. Gerrard for me is a better player. Neither are as good as Viera, Nedved, Camoranesi (interesting that they all play on one team), Kaka, or Ballack for me.

Palos, yuh just calling midfield players and not distinguishing what type of players they are.  Gerrard is almost a utility player.  He can play anywhere in the midfield and is the only one out of those that you called that could finish a Champions League final playing as a right back.  It speaks volumes about his versatility.  If you want to match up those midfielders with someone on Liverpool, it would have to be Xavi Alonso.  And I bet you if Gerrard were to go on the market tomorrow, he would be sought by the biggest clubs.  Sometimes when you are so versatile, it can hurt you, and I believe that Gerard is a victim of his versatility at times, since he is slotted in wherever there is a need in midfield.  But some of them men yuh calling are no way in Gerrard class. Is not only about finesse.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 05:20:28 PM by Tenorsaw »

Offline richpy

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2005, 05:52:23 PM »
The premiership exciting eh - I ain't go say is a messy league, but the quality poor in comparison to Italy and Spain. When Chelsea, ManU and Asenal about to play Wigan, Sunderland, etc., it have NO chance that the big teams will be upset. In Italy and Spain, let Barca, Real, Milan, juve, etc. doh show up nah!

That is why men like Gerard have a asterix next to his name- he have to dominate in a better league. Gerard compared to Viera?? Nah! I respect Lampard because he show meh something in last year Champions League, and he very consistent. He still have to show meh something for England though.
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Offline andre samuel

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2005, 06:06:47 PM »
That is why men like Gerard have a asterix next to his name- he have to dominate in a better league. Gerard compared to Viera?? Nah! I respect Lampard because he show meh something in last year Champions League, and he very consistent. He still have to show meh something for England though.

Hmmm!! please tell me who carried liverpool on their back last year in the premiership and champions league?

and touches, i see your point, but at the end of the day, u still have to go out and win those games and they did.  I am impressed with them and i am sure that they will do well against the 'better' teams too

what going on with arsenal? ah feeling sorry fiuh yuh cause ah feel dey only good enough for de UEFA cup spot!
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Offline real-warrior

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2005, 09:53:24 PM »
its too early to say.

Offline palos

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2005, 10:47:08 PM »
Liverpool deserves more credit that you are willling to give them touches!  Actually, i think that winning 9 straight games on the trot is more than just good enough!! Inn fact, not conceeding a goal for over 720 minutes is also a great achievement!!

ps to palos, in my opinion, all those players that u quoted just now ent better than gerrard with the exception kaka.  he on de same level as ballack and nedved!

Breds...like you CONVENIENTLY fuhget de 1-0 Liverpool get in dey pweffen jes de other day in de World Club Championship or wha?  Or dat doh count?

Dah 9 straight games dey win....who exactly dey play?

1 team of QUALITY...Chelsea and dey draw dat 0-0.  It have stats, manipulations, and damn lies.  Yes Liverpool win 9 games straight, but is EPL we talkin bout.   West Ham, Aston Villa, Portsmouth, Man City, Sunderland, Wigan, Middlesborough, Newcastle & Everton?  Bout 60% of dah 9 in de lower half of de EPL table?  Come on man.

Dis is why I does jes overs when it come to EPL.  Plenty people does see a EPL team doin a ting and one time dem is de bess it have.  As richpy say, de best ting EPL have for it is it exciting and it have de world's best hype machine.  At least once per match yuh does hear de commentator sayin "this is why the EPL is the best or most entertaining league in de world".  Hear dat enuff time and soon it go become fact fuh who want to believe dat despite what happenin in front dey eye.

As fuh Gerard...only Kaka better?  Andre...wha u talkin?  You does be watchin Ballack in de Bundes Liga?  Camoranesi & Viera in de Scudetto?   Based on wha yuh sayin ah have to question if you do.  Gerard MIGHT be on de same level as Nedved ONLY BECAUSE Nedved gettin up dey in age and losin a step but still a compliment to Gerard dat he bein spoken of in de same sentence as Nedved.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 10:51:30 PM by palos »
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Offline dwolfman

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2005, 07:47:25 AM »
Chelsea might have signed another player, this time on loan. Maniche from Dynamo Moscow and if I am not mistaken he was a Benfica player a few seasons ago. That's just for our information.

Why does a team have to establish a dynasty to be considered dominant? A dynasty only happens over a period of time so I agree that Chelsea is not on that level, but to say that they are not dominant is to ignore evidence to the contrary or to confuse the meaning of dynasty and dominant. Chelsea won the league last year by 12 points (they had 95 points) losing 1 game whole season to Man City (who finished 8th or 9th). That means they beat or drew with the top teams in the EPL. They conceeded 15 goals in their 38 games and was the second highest scoring club (can't remember the exact amount they scored) in the EPL. This year they already have 52 points at the halfway stage. They have lost one and drawn one game and won all the rest. They have conceeded 9 and scored 41, both of which are league topping efforts. If that is not dominance then I don't know what is. On top of all of that it seems unlikely that they will be caught, especially since they continue to beat all of the top teams (except Man Utd). Spending money doesn't make you a dominant team, but results like that surely should.


Offline spideybuff

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2005, 09:35:00 AM »
The premiership exciting eh - I ain't go say is a messy league, but the quality poor in comparison to Italy and Spain. When Chelsea, ManU and Asenal about to play Wigan, Sunderland, etc., it have NO chance that the big teams will be upset. In Italy and Spain, let Barca, Real, Milan, juve, etc. doh show up nah!

That is why men like Gerard have a asterix next to his name- he have to dominate in a better league. Gerard compared to Viera?? Nah! I respect Lampard because he show meh something in last year Champions League, and he very consistent. He still have to show meh something for England though.

Nah man, I backing Wigan and West Ham against any other side that get promoted in any of them other leagues. And every league has their big teams but that doesn';t make the quality poor. For Chelsea, Manu, Liverpool and Arsenal, read Juve, Inter,Milan and any one of Roma, Lazio or Parma depending on the year. Same thing in Spain, Real and Barca and then a third side is always show up be it Valencia, Deportivo or Villareal depending on the flavor of the year. Because Real playing shit doh mean the rest of the league (apart from Barca) suddenly become  good...
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Offline spideybuff

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2005, 09:40:03 AM »
Breds...like you CONVENIENTLY fuhget de 1-0 Liverpool get in dey pweffen jes de other day in de World Club Championship or wha?  Or dat doh count?

Breds, like u conveniently forget that Liverpool play all over Sao Paulo in that game ? Igoring that fact and focusing on the bottom line (the result) is contradictory to sayng that Nedved old and tha's why Gerrard in his class cause the bottom line is that put them both on a field today and Gerrard will be the better player. U can't detract from Liverpool run because no other side do it without conceding and because many other 'big' sides played those small sides and lose too.
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Offline andre samuel

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2005, 01:28:32 PM »

Breds...like you CONVENIENTLY fuhget de 1-0 Liverpool get in dey pweffen jes de other day in de World Club Championship or wha?  Or dat doh count?

u see dat game? yes i agree that goals win matches but c'mon palos, everyone that saw that game knew who the better team was!

Quote
Dah 9 straight games dey win....who exactly dey play?

1 team of QUALITY...Chelsea and dey draw dat 0-0.  It have stats, manipulations, and damn lies.  Yes Liverpool win 9 games straight, but is EPL we talkin bout.   West Ham, Aston Villa, Portsmouth, Man City, Sunderland, Wigan, Middlesborough, Newcastle & Everton?  Bout 60% of dah 9 in de lower half of de EPL table?  Come on man.

so what if 60% of those teams are in the lower half of the table, that only means that 40% of them are in the upper part!! the fact that they didnt conceed a goal has to count for something.  The defences stil had to deal with Baros, Angel, Lua Lua, Cole, Vassell, Camara, Roberts, Yakubu, Viduka, Shearer, Owen, and Beattie.  Even if u say is EPL we talkin bout, they still won their group in the champions league!!

Quote
As fuh Gerard...only Kaka better?  Andre...wha u talkin?  You does be watchin Ballack in de Bundes Liga?  Camoranesi & Viera in de Scudetto?   Based on wha yuh sayin ah have to question if you do.  Gerard MIGHT be on de same level as Nedved ONLY BECAUSE Nedved gettin up dey in age and losin a step but still a compliment to Gerard dat he bein spoken of in de same sentence as Nedved.

Gerrard is ah big player who does do it week in and week out for liverpool the same way that Ballack does do to for Bayern!!

I like them both as top rated players! Camoranesi is also a big player but he is not as consistent as gerrard!
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Offline trinidre

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2005, 01:42:08 PM »
maniche was a porto player, he was there when mourihno was there and ah hearing that he may be coming to chelsea on loan til the end of the season with the option to buy

Offline truthseeker

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2005, 10:41:17 PM »
Fellas as a Man Utd man I must say that I hate Chelski and Assnal with a passion, but I agree with Touches inmany respects (thats almost oxymoronic ;D).

Chelski is not yet a dominant team. They have not won sufficient trophies to even begin to qualify on that account.

Their money has played a HUGE factor in securing their level of success. I hate Mourinho as well but he is a brilliant yet efficient trainer. He is a student of the game and a master tactician. He also has an amazing ability of creating a true team ethic and spirit, and this is what has been sustaining Chelski's last minute game winning goals. Chelski is the hardest working team in the EPL at the moment. They run for 90 minutes straight and their depth makes any potential injuries obstacles a moot point.

And this is where they have de advantage over teams like Utd and Assnal. That plus the fact that they can discard men at wil and buy whoever they want, whenever they want... Is Maniche really necessary?

I think the problem that most people have with Chelski is the MONEY. They can easily buy their way out of trouble. For all de years of man Utd and Assnal's dominance (economically and on the pitch) other teams still felt that they stood a chance,  In fact, Fergie repeatedly released stars and went with unknowns (Wenger did the same) and these unknowns and fledgings were the basis of those championship winning teams.

Chelski's run will end soon enough and it will not be as successful as Utd and Assnal's years. As much as I hate Assnal, I believe that if they add a player like Diop (fulham) next to Gilberto, bring in another defender to play next to Toure, with Cole fit, they will cause nuff nuff trouble and will carve Chelski's apart. Even a second rate Utd team cut Chelski's ass and I wait to hear what the haters will say when we beat them at Stamford Bridge.

PS: Ah wonder what Shaun Wright phillips thinking at the moment...?

Offline truthseeker

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2005, 10:51:22 PM »
FROM THE LONDON GUARDIAN:

Mourinho's success needs no luck, just great fortune

Richard Williams
Wednesday December 28, 2005
The Guardian


In the world outside Stamford Bridge, Chelsea's championship evoked mixed reactions. Many neutrals felt it a fine and proper thing that they should take the Premiership exactly 50 years after Roy Bentley's team captured the old First Division title for the only time in the club's history. The sight of the captain of the 1955 side attending last season's home matches renewed ties with the past at a club where a tendency to live for the moment has sometimes appeared to imperil the future.

Article continues

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On the other hand there was the business of whether Chelsea had simply bought the title. So brazen was their ambition, and so staggering the club's resources, that emotions such as jealousy and resentment occasionally suppressed legitimate applause for a remarkable feat. Eventually even the president of Fifa was moved to join the chorus of disquiet, although Sepp Blatter is on unsafe ground when choosing to select one target for criticism when others, including the top clubs in Spain and Italy, have never been afraid to exploit their wealth in order to establish or consolidate their dominance.
When Roman Abramovich arrived in the summer of 2003, it was to the accompaniment of a fascinated buzz. Here was an oligarch prepared to use his billions to buy himself a toy shop. Eventually questions were asked about the provenance of his cash and reservations were expressed about such an essentially frivolous use of the wealth of the people of Siberia, whose shares in the state oil business Abramovich had so carefully bought up, having started with a massive holding acquired through one of Boris Yeltsin's curious "auctions" of the natural assets of the former Soviet Union. His motives, too, became a subject for speculation: was his pleasure in the team's success genuinely rooted in an enthusiasm for football, or were his appearances at Chelsea's matches intended to give him the sort of public profile that might provide immunity from the direr consequences of a falling-out with Vladimir Putin, Yeltsin's successor?

For the club's supporters, however, such discussions were of less consequence than a realisation that the coming of the Russian had swept away not just the fear of imminent bankruptcy but decades' worth of bitter memories surrounding the various wars between the Mears family, Marler Estates, Cabra Estates, Ken Bates, the late Matthew Harding and others. When Bates, having gratefully pocketed Abramovich's cheque for around £17.5m, embroiled himself in a final outbreak of acrimony over his lack of a continuing role in the club's affairs, it seemed like a symbolic cauterisation of the last remaining wound. The departure of Claudio Ranieri at the end of the 2003-04 season - in which the club finished second in the league, 11 points behind Arsenal - enabled the new era to begin.

How new it was became apparent in their first match of the 2004-05 league season, a meeting with Manchester United at Stamford Bridge on Sunday, August 15. Jose Mourinho, the new manager, sent out a starting XI containing only one of his own close-season signings, the Portuguese right-back Paulo Ferreira, alongside 10 of the men assembled by his predecessor. The way they played, however, spoke volumes about the difference in approach between the two eras.

Eidur Gudjohnsen scored the only goal after 15 minutes, putting the finishing touch to a swift raid with a flick that beat Tim Howard and evaded Roy Keane's lunge on the goal line. Otherwise Chelsea ventured few attacks, focusing their attentions on frustrating their opponents. Alexei Smertin and Claude Makelele closed up the midfield, operating in tandem in the style of Maniche and Costinha with Mourinho's European Cup-winning FC Porto side the previous season.

The tactics with which Porto had triumphed over Monaco in Gelsenkirchen were easy to see in Chelsea's approach to the match. The minatory midfield line was sandwiched between a back four working the offside trap and a set of forwards willing to harry opposing defenders at every opportunity. Carefully drilled and ferocious in their adherence to the script, this lot were far removed from Ranieri's band of improvisers. And, not for the last time in the new era, we saw the result justifying the means.

Sir Alex Ferguson left Stamford Bridge that evening knowing that a genuine third force had arrived in English football. Mourinho's highly entertaining press conferences had given the impression of a man second to none in his estimation of his own talent, but even those who had seen Porto's victory as a flash in the pan were soon to revise their opinion. This was a man who left nothing to chance.

He arrived in London accompanied by several Portuguese admirals, including Baltemar Brito, his assistant, and Rui Faria, who later achieved notoriety for his role in the unseemly fracas at the end of the victorious European Cup tie against Barcelona. Wisely, Mourinho retained the services of Steve Clarke, Ranieri's assistant, who became a useful buffer whenever the manager did not feel like exposing himself to a post-match press conference.

Mourinho likes people to know that his team's good results do not happen by accident, and his willingness to provide an insight - or at least a glimpse - into his modus operandi makes him seem even more impressive. Those who stayed behind after the 2004 European Cup final were astonished by the apparent frankness of his response to a general question about how he had prepared Porto for their victory. "Last Thursday we practised defensive organisation," he said. "On Friday we practised attacking organisation. On Saturday we practised the transition from defence to attack. On Sunday we practised the transition from attack to defence. And on Monday we practised penalties."

These words resonated throughout Chelsea's first season under Mourinho. First, the emphasis on defence. The new Chelsea went eight league games without defeat from the start of the season, conceding only one goal (to Southampton's James Beattie) in that time. Four of those results were 1-0 victories, which gave them a reputation for niggardly conservatism. But "transition" became the word of the season as the depth of Chelsea's organisation on the field became apparent, undisturbed even by a 1-0 defeat at Manchester City, the only reverse they would suffer in the league campaign.

At the end of October, the mood changed. Mourinho brought Arjen Robben, recently recovered from injury, into the first-team squad, and suddenly the Stakhanovite tendency was banished. Robben played only a few minutes of a 4-0 home win against Blackburn Rovers, in which Chelsea scored more than two goals in a league match for the first time under Mourinho, but his partnership with Damien Duff revitalised the team as they went on a spree that saw them score four goals in six of their next 11 games.

With Gudjohnsen or Didier Drogba at the point of the attack, Duff and Robben showed an ability to stay wide, to cut inside or to switch positions with an understanding that baffled opponents. With their back four still extremely reluctant to concede goals, Chelsea's forwards were able to demonstrate the efficiency of Mourinho's training-ground drills, in which the positioning of players at the opposition's corners, free-kicks and goal-kicks became the potential springboard for attack. Their success persuaded a few opposition coaches, notably Sir Alex, to tinker with a "trident", until a lack of success made it obvious to them and to the outside world that it was Mourinho's organisational skills, not the formation alone, that made it work.

At the heart of Chelsea's structure were two midfielders who had been brought to the club by Ranieri: very different in style and background but united in their fundamental footballing intelligence. Makelele had produced little during his first season in a Chelsea shirt to support the Real Madrid players who lamented his departure; now virtually everything Chelsea accomplished was starting with one of his short, shrewd passes. Frank Lampard, with the English game bred in his bones, had initially been overweight and self-indulgent but reformed himself so successfully that Mourinho was able to reap the reward of the sort of work ethic that is the stuff of a coach's dreams.

What Mourinho was proving, as Chelsea eased away from their pursuers, was that £200m or more of Abramovich's money was only of any use if the things it could buy were controlled by the right man. Given another season, might Ranieri have gone one better than the second place that was his parting gift to the club? The possibility cannot be ruled out. Under Mourinho, however, the march to the championship acquired an inexorable rhythm that continued into the present season.

Countless images and anecdotes emerged from Chelsea's historic championship season. Brian Clough, that great iconoclast, anointed Mourinho as his successor not long before his death. John Terry, the club captain, played part of the season with a bone spur on his left foot, requiring pre-match injections to dull the pain. Chelsea had just taken the lead at Goodison Park in February when Mourinho sent on Jiri Jarosik, the substitute, who took to the pitch clutching a piece of paper upon which were inscribed a new set of tactical instructions for transmission to Tiago, the midfield player.

When Mourinho did make a mistake, or a dramatic gesture misfired, it was generally not in the league. At St James' Park in the fifth round of the FA Cup, his team went behind to an early Patrick Kluivert goal and the coach reacted by sending on three substitutes at half-time; two minutes later Wayne Bridge was carried off and Chelsea went out of the competition with only eight fit players on the pitch. But no blame could be attached either to the coach or his players when, having dismissed Barcelona and Bayern Munich from the European Cup, they were unable to neutralise the fervour of Liverpool's supporters over the two legs of the semi-final.

The championship was sealed at the Reebok Stadium on April 30, when Lampard - fittingly, given his contribution to the season as a whole - scored both goals in a 2-0 win over Bolton Wanderers. The celebrations, long and loud, were resumed a week later when the home fans swallowed their disappointment at the intervening failure in the European Cup to welcome their heroes home.

Although Abramovich celebrated by negotiating the sale of his 72% holding in the Sibneft oil company back to the Russian government for £7.4bn during the summer, the source of the wealth that fuelled the Chelsea renaissance remains a tricky subject. To offset such misgivings, his supporters could point to the sums Abramovich has invested, from his personal fortune, in the social infrastructure of the impoverished eastern state of Chukotka, which he continues to serve as governor.

Mourinho, too, has undertaken his share of good works: that first Premiership title broke the nine-year duopoly enjoyed by Manchester United and Arsenal, and next summer England as a whole may have cause to be grateful for the trust he placed in Lampard and Terry, and for the perception and diligence with which he helped Joe Cole to fulfil his early promise, enabling him to finish the season as an established performer for club and country. Whether the cheers will find an echo in Siberia is another matter.


Offline Feliziano

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2005, 10:21:20 AM »
so allyoh trying to tell me that Messina,Treviso, Lecce,etc from Italy..and Cadiz,Malaga,etc from Spain are better than or more competitive than the teams that are currently in the bottom half of the EPL?

another thing is regardless if Liverpool get their 9 match unbeaten streak against lower half oppostion..i think they playing more attractive football than Chelsea currently..the last time i sure Chelsea really blow out somebody was Liverpool in October..since then they just squeaking by people.
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Offline ZionYouth

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Re: Chelsea Dominance
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2006, 01:21:34 AM »
allyuh already know who i like and every body talking about all deez players ah guess everybody forget about frank lampard.....,

 

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