Have we learned anything from Beenhakker about football?

[dombasil]

In the short time that Don Leo has coached us have we learned anything from him about football? Have we learned anything about tactics,organisation, good of the team before self, etc? Or did we know all these things already?

[dwolfman]

Did any of the local coaches attend training sessions to see what he was doing? I'm almost certain he would have welcomed that.

[Sam]

I doubt that, this is T&T we talking about, people who takes nothing serious until they back against de wall......

If Dom was alive, things might have been different.

[KND2]

I think we have learned a lot.

I personally have learned that a TnT football team can look organized and professional on the field.
TnT Players are finally able to stay in position and make passes and to keep basic shape and structure.

It is the first time I have ever watched a TnT game and we look just like any other professional football team.

Bennie man relax them men down and get them to play football just like they do at thier clubs.

That is what we learn.

in the past soon as them men put on a TnT shirt they used to go and do a set of wildness on the field.

Bennie man bring the structure that is what we learn.

[ribbit]

Did any of the local coaches attend training sessions to see what he was doing? I'm almost certain he would have welcomed that.

there was a thread some time back about training sessions that beenhakker held - and no local coach attended.

beenhakker is making an impact but it's to the players not really to the local based coaches. long term this isn't good.

this is of concern - i mean beenhakker will be here as long as jack will pay him what he wants and its the right kind of challenge for him. so once he gone, and new players take on roles on the squad will the results of his coaching be retained? likely not.

[dcs]

there was a thread some time back about training sessions that beenhakker held - and no local coach attended.

What thread is that?
As far as I could remember he hasn't done anything training local coaches....but I could be wrong....if yuh counting Anton.

[TrinInfinite]

beenhakker say jump and de ttff and everyone say, How High, dem coach home doh want tuh listen to no white man, dats dere mentality, dey have a problem learning from dey own, far less other people

[Tenorsaw]

I learned that we were sorely lacking, logistically: arrangements for away matches are critical to success.  Also, your understaff sometimes needs to be just as competent as you are. Look at the people Beenie surround himself with.  Now, he finetuning for Germany; he bring another doctor and nutritionist on board.  We were sorely lacking in these areas.  De man doh pick names; he does go for the players that fit in to his desired strategy and style of play.

[Trinimassive]

The former coach (BSC) said that the players couldn't pass, trap, control the ball, etc......so I learned that we could make the World Cup with players who can't even pass, trap, control the ball....so if they coulda do that..... we would win the World Cup

Thank You Beenie Man

Plain Talk

[ribbit]

there was a thread some time back about training sessions that beenhakker held - and no local coach attended.

What thread is that?
As far as I could remember he hasn't done anything training local coaches....but I could be wrong....if yuh counting Anton.

hey dcs,

trying to find the thread (it was an article actually) but no luck yet.

but the point about corneal somewhat makes it moot. some coaches have and will take an interest.

the thing is, transferring knowledge is one thing, but does this afford local coaches better opportunities? fifa coaching certifications seem to be more tangible than attending seminars arranged by LP and conducted by beenhakker and staff. is there a venue for coaches to practice what is being preached at these seminars? for corneal there is, but are all coaches interested in these technical seminars getting a chance handling some aspect of a national team (U-17, U-23, etc.)?

[dwolfman]

I asked if coaches attend the session not in a formal sense. I view it like this:

1. They can learn how a man who has coached Real Madrid (to name a team that we can all respect) structures his training sessions. They can see what he favours, how it applies to their own teams and what, if anything, is new that they can introduce to their own training sessions.

2. Learn a new way to say the same thing. There are many skills, tactics or ideas that local coaches share in common with foreign ones, but sometimes it's about finding a different way to present it.

I do not see the point in waiting for someone else to structure a "development programme" or "certificate course". Help yourself first and as you become more competent others will help you. Observing someone better or more experienced can be an excellent learning tool. We aren't seeing the forest through the trees if we are looking for a simpler way to develop our football than to have our local coaches observe the current national team coach. If a young football player learns from watching older, more experienced players (in addition to practice) why can't our coaches learn the same way in addition to more formal course settings?

Book or theoretical learning is fine, but learning from experience is also effective learning. A baby observes adults walking or talking and tries to emulate it and learns how to do it using what they see and also what adults teach them. Who better to learn from than a man with Beenhakker's experience?

[dcs]

There are certificate programs that keep you up to date on the fundamentals of the game as well as the latest accepted practises/tactics etc etc.
That is one aspect which ALL our coaches should be acquiring as a basic requirement of their jobs.

Seeing those things in action is invaluable....getting a realistic sense of how those things fit together and other things u can't get from a course can be gained from talking to people, attending workshops and seeing it in action.  That is where Leo and LP can help.

Then as you say they can go use those experiences with ANY TEAM they are coaching.  Granted the type of team will determine what areas u can realistically implement the fact is they will progress if their teams/players do well just based on building their reputation and having the certificates to back it up.

When people finish school and start a specialist job ent employers is have to train them before they send them out to do real work?
And every once in a while they may send you back for more courses/training to keep you sharp.

Any coach at home who not doing certificate courses and feel they *talented* is a joker.

[dwolfman]

You have missed my point completely. I did not say that certificate courses should be ignored, I simply said that rather on waiting on someone to organise things for your benefit that you should seek to help yourself first. Why wait to be sent to a training course? Something I've learned in the working world is that initiative is favoured and taking the initiative to observe a vastly more experienced coach in operation with the national team of the country can almost certainly help a coach more than it can hurt him. If you are the coach of Jabloteh (for eg) why wouldn't you want to see what your players are doing in national training? If nothing else you can appreciate what is expected of them from the national team coach and in turn get the other players in the club to start to play towards achieving similar standards.

Is all training that you get on the job formal? Don't you also observe senior or more experienced people and how they operate? Further to that, after all the degrees and certificates a person can't have don't potential employers also look at experience? Again, as important as certification is there are other aspects to developing coaching skills that need to be done outside of the "classroom".

[ribbit]

I asked if coaches attend the session not in a formal sense. I view it like this:

1. They can learn how a man who has coached Real Madrid (to name a team that we can all respect) structures his training sessions. They can see what he favours, how it applies to their own teams and what, if anything, is new that they can introduce to their own training sessions.

2. Learn a new way to say the same thing. There are many skills, tactics or ideas that local coaches share in common with foreign ones, but sometimes it's about finding a different way to present it.

I do not see the point in waiting for someone else to structure a "development programme" or "certificate course". Help yourself first and as you become more competent others will help you. Observing someone better or more experienced can be an excellent learning tool. We aren't seeing the forest through the trees if we are looking for a simpler way to develop our football than to have our local coaches observe the current national team coach. If a young football player learns from watching older, more experienced players (in addition to practice) why can't our coaches learn the same way in addition to more formal course settings?

Book or theoretical learning is fine, but learning from experience is also effective learning. A baby observes adults walking or talking and tries to emulate it and learns how to do it using what they see and also what adults teach them. Who better to learn from than a man with Beenhakker's experience?

dwolfman, i think i get what you are saying but i can say, from experience, that it is a bad idea to do training without having an idea of what it can be applied to.

two things:

are only local coaches attending these seminars? it might provide more opportunities for local coaches to network with established coaches if they can do something to open these sessions up to other senior coaches outside of the country - perhaps there is very little potential to do this. the point is, however, that there is likely very limited potential to network with others that could provide productive coaching engagements or opportunities as a result.

i don't doubt that coaches can learn something from beenhakker. what beenhakker can give to local coaches is an understanding of the game outside of t&t for those coaches that have little exposure. but parlaying this into something tangible at the end of the day is really where the value is to local coaches. beenhakker might as well record the sessions and sell the series through FIFA or go on the seminar circuit if he hasn't already done this. bobby robson and alex ferguson do this kind of stuff for money already. the point here is that the competitive advantage in attending these seminars is greatly diminished. i've attended seminars with big names in my industry and the real value was the networking potential, not the stuff that they were preaching. it could be different in football coaching, but there is nothing i've read or heard that has convinced me that is the case.

[trinidre]

I see the TNT team go from a bunch of talented individuals who at times look like they was playing for themselves to a well organised and disciplined group of players who play with alot more confidence than in previous years so we learned that TNT could play well enough to compete with teams like Mexico and make it to the world cup but the question is if we could keep up the progress we have made after beenhacker gone? The local coaches could only profit learning from a well travelled successfull coach such as beenhacker who did for the first time what no local coach could have done.

[ribbit]

You have missed my point completely. I did not say that certificate courses should be ignored, I simply said that rather on waiting on someone to organise things for your benefit that you should seek to help yourself first. Why wait to be sent to a training course? Something I've learned in the working world is that initiative is favoured and taking the initiative to observe a vastly more experienced coach in operation with the national team of the country can almost certainly help a coach more than it can hurt him. If you are the coach of Jabloteh (for eg) why wouldn't you want to see what your players are doing in national training? If nothing else you can appreciate what is expected of them from the national team coach and in turn get the other players in the club to start to play towards achieving similar standards.

Is all training that you get on the job formal? Don't you also observe senior or more experienced people and how they operate? Further to that, after all the degrees and certificates a person can't have don't potential employers also look at experience? Again, as important as certification is there are other aspects to developing coaching skills that need to be done outside of the "classroom".

dwolfman, local coaches have more local knowledge than beenhakker. they know their players more than beenhakker. beenhakker knows the international game more than local coaches. there may be technical aspects in the international game that could be applied to the local game but i really think the value beenhakker provides to local coaches is how to adapt their coaching to cope with the international game, not how to bring the international game to the local game.

no doubt there is an overlap in the problems that local coaches and beenhakker face but i think (a) their resources are different so solutions available to beenhakker would not be available to local coaches and (b) the player capabilities are different.

i think it makes sense for LP to assess where local football is first, determine their immediate technical needs and get the appropriate level of coaching to bring the game along. i think if LP did this, he would not be asking someone of beenhakker's experience to conduct the technical seminars. there is a gap of significant size between the local league and the places where beenhakker has been. however, i think the seminar is a good idea because at the very least they getting something with the money they paying beenhakker.

[warmonga]

In the short time that Don Leo has coached us have we learned anything from him about football? Have we learned anything about tactics,organisation, good of the team before self, etc? Or did we know all these things already?

I honestly never believed dat a coach could get de players to do what he wants.. No disrespect to Mr BSC but everyone knew I backed de coaching staff when BSC was in charge not because I like him but I felt he was doing his best wid what TNT had,  but after seeing what Benhakker did wid almost de same group of Guys I was stunned ...I now feal BSC was a shithung and had no game plan especially after dat 5 we got from Guatemala.. De only game I felt Benhakker was out coach was against Costa Rica innah de return game..from de wey I see it I felt he did not have a proper game plan against Costa Rica .. Benhakker is a boss of coach not because he took TNT to de wrl cup but because what he proved he can do wid players dat I and many ohter people innah this forum and in TNT felt was not of International caliber....Emagine  dem man couldnt even trap a flicking ball and watch dem now !!!!!!!
Thank yu mr Benhakker...

[dcs]

You have missed my point completely.

My post wasn't in reply to yours.
I was still typing when u posted yours and I didn't read it until after.   

In any case I agreed with your points.

[Jefferz]

I think we certainly learned we are a team with alot of pontential... becuase is only when Beenhakker came that the world really saw it.

I know alot of men that said we were never good enough to make it to the world cup.

They learned something didnt they?
 

The believers learned they were right in believing and the unbelievers learned theres nothing wrong with making yourself vulnerable to believe.

With an experienced foreign coach like Beenhakker its a learning experience everyday for the players, especially for the local ones.

I think we'll continue to learn, as a nation, about being a top world team. Step by step.

[dombasil]

Is it possible that part of the reson for his success with the players was that 1) He is Leo Beenhakker the world famous coach, so ah better try to do what he says and 2) He had absolute authority to select his team without interference from the powers that be and 3) Latas came back to play taking pressure off the other players.