Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Tallman on May 07, 2011, 04:55:00 PM
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Stoke won't ease up ahead of Wembley, warns Jones
By Ralph Ellis (mirrorfootball.co.uk)
Kenwyne Jones has warned Arsenal they’ll be facing the same old Stoke today – Cup final or no Cup final.
The Gunners have come to look on The Britannia Stadium as one of the grounds they hate going to after losing in two of three trips since Tony Pulis’s side won promotion.
But if Arsene Wenger is hoping that Stoke’s players will be easing up to protect themselves against injuries a week ahead of their Wembley date with Manchester City he’s in for a disappointment.
And giant Trinidad and Tobago striker Jones, in a rich vein of form with four goals in five games, has told his team mates that’s the best way to get ready for the game of their lives.
The £8million club record signing from Sunderland insisted: “The big thing is that you cannot protect yourself from getting injured so there’s no point to try.
“Some players try not to push too hard and then get hurt anyway. Others think they’ll train normally and play and then it can still happen to them too.
“What I’m going to do is train hard like I would normally, relax when I get time off, and then whatever happens, it happens. That’s what’s best for everybody because as a footballer you just roll on instinct and that’s the best way to stay.”
Jones has bounced right back to form after struggling in the middle of the season but insists that at 26 he’s still got plenty more to give.
He said: “The goals have been coming, but I know that I have more in me. Sometimes you can be on your best form and not scoring, it’s strange.
“I am just happy to be on the scoresheet right now leading up to an FA Cup final and hopefully it will continue then.
“I think as a player from the very first day you always have to think that the best is yet to come, right up to the day when you retire.
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Stoke City's Kenwyne Jones prefers to do his talking on the pitch
By Jamie Jackson (The Observer)
Kenwyne Jones is Stoke City's record £8m signing but he hardly seems content at the prospect of performing before 90,000 at Wembley in Saturday's FA Cup final against Manchester City. The 26-year-old has scored 11 times since moving from Sunderland last summer, a return that shows he is still searching for the consistent finishing touch possessed by the elite 20-goal-a-season band some believe he can join.
Yet ask about Tony Pulis, his manager, who says that he can be "out of this world" on his day, and Jones offers what proves to be a regulation spiky response: "I might do interviews but I don't pay attention to journalists. Everyone [is] always trying to make somebody in the mould of someone else. I really and truly don't pay attention."
How about John Terry's declaration that he is the best header of the ball in the Premier League? "If he said that – I never read it, it was told to me. All you can do is play football. You can get that compliment and it's fine, but it's just words," he says.
What of taking on Roberto Mancini's side? "Again," Jones says, sighing, "Manchester City is a very big football club, they've a massive fan base, resources, and world-class players. So it is going to be a test. We're just looking forward to doing our bit."
Producing what is required has been Stoke's way throughout the current campaign. After securing a fourth Premier League season since returning the club to the big time, Pulis now plots how to win their first FA Cup final and take the old pot back to the Potteries. A 5-0 shellacking of Bolton Wanderers in the semi-final at Wembley was as resounding a result as could be hoped for. Yet, predictably perhaps, Jones is unsure if this has altered the "boring Stoke" label the team attracts.
"If we won every game 10-0 next season we'd still be called 'boring Stoke'. It's not going to make a difference," he says. "I don't know where it comes from, you tell me. Everyone says it, but the thing is you report it, it's always there to read. We won 5-0, so what does that say?" Jones then offers his own answer: "It's sometimes nice to watch paint dry, you know that?"
The back story of the boy from Trinidad's Point Fortin is worth a glance. Not that Jones is keen to discuss it. His father, Pamphile, and his uncle Philbert inspired him to play football. While Jones took his back-flip goal celebration from Philbert, who was a star for the Trinidad & Tobago squad that nearly qualified for the 1990 World Cup, Pamphille was in the army, a career Jones considered.
"That was a long time ago. I've told this story many times. It wasn't mandatory, just a personal choice, making decisions in life, either you do one thing or you do the next, just for the sake of it," Jones says.
What attracted you to the army? "Nothing attracts you to the army," he says, indignantly. "I don't think anyone grows up thinking: 'I love the army.' It's still a route into playing football in Trinidad while having job security. It's not like I wanted to fight. It has nothing to do with not liking uniforms. My dad was in the army, it wasn't like I hated or didn't like authority."
To make it as a professional Jones decided against a college scholarship in the United States and instead hawked himself around Europe on trial. "This is really going back in history, but I had a few [trials] in England and Scotland and another in Holland," he says.
Try-outs at Manchester United and Middlesbrough in 2002 and later at West Ham United and Rangers came to nothing before he landed at Southampton seven years ago. Yet suggest that Jones took the harder option in declining college and his ire is sparked again: "I don't think it's the harder road. Because if you go to college you tend to lose that fire for playing football."
Finally, Jones played for his country against England in the 2006 World Cup. How will the Cup final compare? "Making the World Cup is a great achievement, playing in the Premier League is a great achievement: they all rank in the same place."
Discussion over, a photographer inquires if he can take a quick snap. "No," Jones says. Then he explains he agreed only to speak to the written press. Otherwise, he adds: "I would have told that lot to f**k off."
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2011/5/6/1304690590877/Stoke-Citys-Kenwyne-Jones-007.jpg)
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He have the interviewing skills of a big stone.
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He have the interviewing skills of a big stone.
How he anti-press soo??
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He have the interviewing skills of a big stone.
How he anti-press soo??
You believe everything you read? ;D
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This is clearly an inerview with ulterior motivies.......
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This is clearly an inerview with ulterior motivies.......
Yep.
http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Potters&thread=161629&page=1#2725469
I witnessed this interview and if I'm honest the press were looking for angles and gave him a rough ride.
He answered every question with a beaming smile and was very forthcoming. The response to the photo request was understandable as it tends to be a 10 to 15 minute episode. As soon as he saw my female colleague had heard the F*ck off statement (again said with a beaming smile) he apologised. She persuaded him to do an interview after he had said no to a local paper. In the interview he was very funny and honest.
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He have the interviewing skills of a big stone.
How he anti-press soo??
So now that his football form is good this is the next anti KJ campaign right?!! Allyuh always ha to look fuh some shit to paint dis fella negatively eh?!! Bess f**kin fans in de world ::)
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So now that his football form is good this is the next anti KJ campaign right?!! Allyuh always ha to look fuh some shit to paint dis fella negatively eh?!! Bess f**kin fans in de world ::)
"Paint dis fella negatively?" Why should we continue to give a f**k about a player who openly expresses disdain for the very fans on here who both criticize and support him? Allyuh could keep making excuse fuh dis jackass if allyuh want.
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He have the interviewing skills of a big stone.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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a player who openly expresses disdain for the very fans on here who both criticize and support him?
When is 92% of the former? I doh blame him. I does cuss allyuh too.
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a player who openly expresses disdain for the very fans on here who both criticize and support him?
When is 92% of the former? I doh blame him. I does cuss allyuh too.
You talking shit... men gone up tuh greet de man in person after a game and he treating dem with contempt and you expect man tuh still rate him up? Well fack he... and you could ride off on dat horse too fuh all I care.
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(http://romanmd.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/funny-horse.jpg?w=247&h=195)
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If was me i would tell allyuh to hull it too.
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Hull not in de EPL!
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So now that his football form is good this is the next anti KJ campaign right?!! Allyuh always ha to look fuh some shit to paint dis fella negatively eh?!! Bess f**kin fans in de world ::)
"Paint dis fella negatively?" Why should we continue to give a f**k about a player who openly expresses disdain for the very fans on here who both criticize and support him? Allyuh could keep making excuse fuh dis jackass if allyuh want.
Continue? Dude so wha, yuh tryin to maintain this hate till death do us part? de man tief yuh pothound or what? My goodness. Drop yuh hatchet nah man and while yuh at it help to un-poison de board which wreaks from dis vendetta yuh toatin. sometimes I does glad I chupidy.. I does get to miss out on the finer points in life. - like HATE!
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Continue? Dude so wha, yuh tryin to maintain this hate till death do us part? de man tief yuh pothound or what? My goodness. Drop yuh hatchet nah man and while yuh at it help to un-poison de board which wreaks from dis vendetta yuh toatin. sometimes I does glad I chupidy.. I does get to miss out on the finer points in life. - like HATE!
I glad yuh say yuh "chupidy" because apparently yuh miss out on Reading Comprehension too. I never say I "hate" anybody, I just refuse to give a fack about a player who doesn't care for my support. Call it "hatchet" or "poison" if it makes the taste of Kenwyne's ass in your mouth more palatable.
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Continue? Dude so wha, yuh tryin to maintain this hate till death do us part? de man tief yuh pothound or what? My goodness. Drop yuh hatchet nah man and while yuh at it help to un-poison de board which wreaks from dis vendetta yuh toatin. sometimes I does glad I chupidy.. I does get to miss out on the finer points in life. - like HATE!
I glad yuh say yuh "chupidy" because apparently yuh miss out on Reading Comprehension too. I never say I "hate" anybody, I just refuse to give a fack about a player who doesn't care for my support. Call it "hatchet" or "poison" if it makes the taste of Kenwyne's ass in your mouth more palatable.
So yuh go tell meh how long yuh plan to keep up your not giving a fack? your words right? Tell me nah? what yuh want an apology? You and yuh homeboys does fall out all de time and be back in bed 2 weeks after. State your dislike and get over it. Everyone makes mistakes and I feel your making one now by keepin up de toatin.
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ha this forum is real kix yes! :beermug: ;D
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Continue? Dude so wha, yuh tryin to maintain this hate till death do us part? de man tief yuh pothound or what? My goodness. Drop yuh hatchet nah man and while yuh at it help to un-poison de board which wreaks from dis vendetta yuh toatin. sometimes I does glad I chupidy.. I does get to miss out on the finer points in life. - like HATE!
I glad yuh say yuh "chupidy" because apparently yuh miss out on Reading Comprehension too. I never say I "hate" anybody, I just refuse to give a fack about a player who doesn't care for my support. Call it "hatchet" or "poison" if it makes the taste of Kenwyne's ass in your mouth more palatable.
So yuh go tell meh how long yuh plan to keep up your not giving a fack? your words right? Tell me nah? what yuh want an apology? You and yuh homeboys does fall out all de time and be back in bed 2 weeks after. State your dislike and get over it. Everyone makes mistakes and I feel your making one now by keepin up de toatin.
Nah boy Davidephraim, dais a real big mistake he make. Yuh goh diss the few true Trini fans it have in such a callous manner? He mad or what!? And is SW.net fans we talking about eh. The way I see it, Kenwyne deserves the same respect from fans that he gives to them....disrespect.
If he make ah mistake then he should apologise. Until then, the Stoke City thread will always be empty, and its his fault. It doh matter though because he eh care.
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If was me i would tell allyuh to hull it too.
An daiz de same ting I sayin. How ah man supposed to want to nice wid people who seem to generally be constantly berating his skills an talkin bout he ha de first touch of ah rapist. Bakes in particular seem to take KJ response rell personal it seems cause he always quick to bring it up lol.
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Continue? Dude so wha, yuh tryin to maintain this hate till death do us part? de man tief yuh pothound or what? My goodness. Drop yuh hatchet nah man and while yuh at it help to un-poison de board which wreaks from dis vendetta yuh toatin. sometimes I does glad I chupidy.. I does get to miss out on the finer points in life. - like HATE!
I glad yuh say yuh "chupidy" because apparently yuh miss out on Reading Comprehension too. I never say I "hate" anybody, I just refuse to give a fack about a player who doesn't care for my support. Call it "hatchet" or "poison" if it makes the taste of Kenwyne's ass in your mouth more palatable.
So yuh go tell meh how long yuh plan to keep up your not giving a fack? your words right? Tell me nah? what yuh want an apology? You and yuh homeboys does fall out all de time and be back in bed 2 weeks after. State your dislike and get over it. Everyone makes mistakes and I feel your making one now by keepin up de toatin.
Nah boy Davidephraim, dais a real big mistake he make. Yuh goh diss the few true Trini fans it have in such a callous manner? He mad or what!? And is SW.net fans we talking about eh. The way I see it, Kenwyne deserves the same respect from fans that he gives to them....disrespect.
If he make ah mistake then he should apologise. Until then, the Stoke City thread will always be empty, and its his fault. It doh matter though because he eh care.
Allyuh good, yes.
The vast majority of KJ posts and comments on dis same SW.net is/was/will be some negative, overly critical, cuss up, fight down, sometimes angry chat. Coming from his own people. Not some redface drunkards shouting at him in Sunderland. His own people.
But, because man show up in he face with a t-shirt and some small talk, he suppose to smile bright and play nice? He supposed to take he time to differentiate de four fans dat on someting positive from de rest of de pack?
'You get what yuh give' right? Consider what we does give him. Or dat principle does only work in one direction?
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I think SW.net as a whole supports (or at least used to support) KJ... Criticism is normal and it shows that people are actually interested- as an adult and a pro, I'm sure he understands...
For him to dis the entire community because of some haters, that's not cool. Maybe he only had narrow exposure to what was written on here.
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I think SW.net as a whole supports (or at least used to support) KJ... Criticism is normal and it shows that people are actually interested- as an adult and a pro, I'm sure he understands...
For him to dis the entire community because of some haters, that's not cool. Maybe he only had narrow exposure to what was written on here.
Son of de Soil in de FA cup Finals. From Point to Tetron to Wembley. Is Point ah say. I think de last man to do dat was Dwight yorke. (And if i'm incorrect ah know tallman go correck meh) Big Up KJ. Win lose or Draw nobody cya take dat from yuh. After dat Arsenal win Man City/Mancini studyin video tapes right now. :o :o
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Continue? Dude so wha, yuh tryin to maintain this hate till death do us part? de man tief yuh pothound or what? My goodness. Drop yuh hatchet nah man and while yuh at it help to un-poison de board which wreaks from dis vendetta yuh toatin. sometimes I does glad I chupidy.. I does get to miss out on the finer points in life. - like HATE!
I glad yuh say yuh "chupidy" because apparently yuh miss out on Reading Comprehension too. I never say I "hate" anybody, I just refuse to give a fack about a player who doesn't care for my support. Call it "hatchet" or "poison" if it makes the taste of Kenwyne's ass in your mouth more palatable.
So yuh go tell meh how long yuh plan to keep up your not giving a fack? your words right? Tell me nah? what yuh want an apology? You and yuh homeboys does fall out all de time and be back in bed 2 weeks after. State your dislike and get over it. Everyone makes mistakes and I feel your making one now by keepin up de toatin.
Nah boy Davidephraim, dais a real big mistake he make. Yuh goh diss the few true Trini fans it have in such a callous manner? He mad or what!? And is SW.net fans we talking about eh. The way I see it, Kenwyne deserves the same respect from fans that he gives to them....disrespect.
If he make ah mistake then he should apologise. Until then, the Stoke City thread will always be empty, and its his fault. It doh matter though because he eh care.
Allyuh good, yes.
The vast majority of KJ posts and comments on dis same SW.net is/was/will be some negative, overly critical, cuss up, fight down, sometimes angry chat. Coming from his own people. Not some redface drunkards shouting at him in Sunderland. His own people.
But, because man show up in he face with a t-shirt and some small talk, he suppose to smile bright and play nice? He supposed to take he time to differentiate de four fans dat on someting positive from de rest of de pack?
'You get what yuh give' right? Consider what we does give him. Or dat principle does only work in one direction?
Nah he suppose 2 luv we just because we in d RWB at a game. So KJ pass me like a full bus in Nashville or worse yet say all yuh sw.net pepps is d worse I am suppose not 2 b able 2 sleep well that nite. PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
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An daiz de same ting I sayin. How ah man supposed to want to nice wid people who seem to generally be constantly berating his skills an talkin bout he ha de first touch of ah rapist. Bakes in particular seem to take KJ response rell personal it seems cause he always quick to bring it up lol.
I wasn't there in Nashville so it have nutten for me to take personal... I have just NEVER, ever been aware of another athlete, especially one so prominent, openly expressing such disdain for the people who support him. I've read reports of foreign stars saying things in the media in moments of frustration... but to repudiate fans to their faces?? Nah, that taking contempt to a higher level. Like it or not criticisim is part of support and (contrary to what Dinner Mints say) the vast majority of the critics on here, from what I have read actually (use to) support the man, Trini picong and pong aside.
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An daiz de same ting I sayin. How ah man supposed to want to nice wid people who seem to generally be constantly berating his skills an talkin bout he ha de first touch of ah rapist. Bakes in particular seem to take KJ response rell personal it seems cause he always quick to bring it up lol.
I wasn't there in Nashville so it have nutten for me to take personal... I have just NEVER, ever been aware of another athlete, especially one so prominent, openly expressing such disdain for the people who support him. I've read reports of foreign stars saying things in the media in moments of frustration... but to repudiate fans to their faces?? Nah, that taking contempt to a higher level. Like it or not criticisim is part of support and (contrary to what Dinner Mints say) the vast majority of the critics on here, from what I have read actually (use to) support the man, Trini picong and pong aside.
have to agree with bakes on this issue 8)
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far. I have had quite a few encounters with Kenwyne and at no point in time was he disrespectful when he referred to this site.
In fact, the "worst" thing Jones ever said to me was when i asked him "how does he feel knowing that people think that he doesnt give his all for his country" and his response was "i dont care what they think".
Quite frankly, i knew where he was coming from. He meant that he prefers to focus on his own game and the coach's advice, rather than what the opinion of the masses was.
Carlos Edwards once said to me that he likes to read this site to get info on fellow pros abroad, but sometimes the amount of negativity that comes from this site is a real turn off.
Just as how racist chants from a few dozen in a crowd can make a whole stadium get branded as racist, we have a few negative posters who give this site a bad name.
ah love it!!
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far. I have had quite a few encounters with Kenwyne and at no point in time was he disrespectful when he referred to this site.
In fact, the "worst" thing Jones ever said to me was when i asked him "how does he feel knowing that people think that he doesnt give his all for his country" and his response was "i dont care what they think".
Quite frankly, i knew where he was coming from. He meant that he prefers to focus on his own game and the coach's advice, rather than what the opinion of the masses was.
Carlos Edwards once said to me that he likes to read this site to get info on fellow pros abroad, but sometimes the amount of negativity that comes from this site is a real turn off.
Just as how racist chants from a few dozen in a crowd can make a whole stadium get branded as racist, we have a few negative posters who give this site a bad name.
ah love it!!
So because he never tell u anything bad about SW.net that means that he doh harbor any ill feelings towards this Site? Maybe if you were there in Nashville with the rest of us he would not have responded saying "I want nothing to do with all yuh" ::)
I understand yuh trying to deflect (what u perceive as) negativity directed at Kenwyne, but your view in this whole matter is at best...myopic if you actually trying to convince people that de man was never disrespectful to de fans on this site.
Now in spite of all that went down I bear no hatred whatsoever towards de fella , but like Kicker said...for him to dis an entire community because of a few posters who might (for the most part) comment about his poor touch or subdued goalscoring prowess, that's not cool.
This is a public forum where people will have varied opinions about your game, and if you as a prominent sportsman can't take criticism then maybe yuh in de wrong business if all yuh expect is people to blow sunshine up yuh tail.
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KJ I want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina,stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. KJ if yuh feeling hot drink some fever grass and deal with Man City. Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. Ah luv this site too bad. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: KJ boy is just something about you. Yuh does just look lazy on de field. Anyways what i say doh matter once yuh score yuh good to go :devil: We want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. :rotfl: :rotfl: Tevez is ah stamina man, Roney is ah stamina man, Chicharito is ah stamina man, Messi is ah stamina man, KJ is Raster man :rotfl: :rotfl:
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far. I have had quite a few encounters with Kenwyne and at no point in time was he disrespectful when he referred to this site.
In fact, the "worst" thing Jones ever said to me was when i asked him "how does he feel knowing that people think that he doesnt give his all for his country" and his response was "i dont care what they think".
Quite frankly, i knew where he was coming from. He meant that he prefers to focus on his own game and the coach's advice, rather than what the opinion of the masses was.
Carlos Edwards once said to me that he likes to read this site to get info on fellow pros abroad, but sometimes the amount of negativity that comes from this site is a real turn off.
Just as how racist chants from a few dozen in a crowd can make a whole stadium get branded as racist, we have a few negative posters who give this site a bad name.
ah love it!!
So because he never tell u anything bad about SW.net that means that he doh harbor any ill feelings towards this Site? Maybe if you were there in Nashville with the rest of us he would not have responded saying "I want nothing to do with all yuh" ::)
I understand yuh trying to deflect (what u perceive as) negativity directed at Kenwyne, but your view in this whole matter is at best...myopic if you actually trying to convince people that de man was never disrespectful to de fans on this site.
Now in spite of all that went down I bear no hatred whatsoever towards de fella , but like Kicker said...for him to dis an entire community because of a few posters who might (for the most part) comment about his poor touch or subdued goalscoring prowess, that's not cool.
This is a public forum where people will have varied opinions about your game, and if you as a prominent sportsman can't take criticism then maybe yuh in de wrong business if all yuh expect is people to blow sunshine up yuh tail.
fireBrand I feel yuh and am inclined to agree with your logic as well as the sentiments express by Bakes and others. In retrospect, that being said.. The statement " I don't want to have nothing to do with allyuh" seems to be an expression of anger not disdain like bakes implied.(bakes ah not single-in yuh out here) It seems to be a statement coming from a place of hurt not haughty contempt. And if it is.. I dont know who, especially the young, who does get hurt and dont feel like hurting back. If you can see my logic. The statements that I have heard as being the mischievous comments dont sound like despise but rather "well if allyuh dont check for me, i dont check for allyuh either."
Ultimately we are on here talking about the criticism that a sportsman should be able to take and in good stead I guess, but has anyone decided what he/they are allowed to give back? again let me refresh everyone's memory of when Stern cuss all ah wee in de Stadium after some level boo. (I didnt boo) but every body else did. lolol. Joke aside KJ seems to have dealt wit the situation differntly. he just doh want no part. stern on de other hand stand up fronto fronto and cuss back. People handle things different and from what we are seeing about KJ he seems to be the other guy as in un-stern-like.
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when he was at Sunderland he get more wood from dem dan we ever give him here...yey he never say dat shit to dem!
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when he was at Sunderland he get more wood from dem dan we ever give him here...yey he never say dat shit to dem!
Sunderland is not home. TnT is de man home breds. Trinbagonians is de man's people breds..Can you dig it?
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I'zz ah fan ah KJ, because of whey he come from,and whey he reach, not because of who he is. I show meh kids, how hard work, determination, and luck, as in KJs case, could get yuh places, not wheter KJ character is good or not. Showing them manners, teaching them respect, humility, and many other good character traits is also my job, not KJs, Rooney or Drogba. I tell dem, the way he plays, is just how I used to play.Them doh care if he is ah Jerk or Jesus disciple (cause even Jesus get string up by one). As far as any socalled star, I look at the work they do. I didn't put them whey they is, them doh owe me or my family nuthen....but we coud learn from some of them. I have no connection to ManC, but ah fella on Stoke, raise on some ah the same kinda food I eat, streching it, yes...but is still something..However, I doh see how I could expect that fella to be me (or my kids), and I cyah be he either. Come on KJ, try and score for Stoke..if yuh don't, yuh doing good still...GO KJ, Go Stoke :wavetowel: :wavetowel:
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Why should he be above critique from Trinbagonians? Also when you are a professional anything it comes with the territory. If you can embrace the positives then you have to be open to the negatives that comes with it. He still can't trap to save his life or pass off a nice ball 7 out of 10time, he still sometimes lolly gags on the field and he still doesn't make consistent runs to get in better goal scoring postions. I don't think people making things up or being unfair when it comes to what are obvious limitations in his game. Nice that he scoring goals but it still doesn't take away from the limitations in his game. Chicharito as good as he has been has some holes in his game and he gets critisized for them.
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To badly paraphrase three great ballers from St Anthony's College:
Carlos : 'not me an dat, allyuh does mash up man on dat site too much'
KJ : ' 'I doh want nuttn to do with allyuh'
Dutty : 'whatdemuddercontdoesreallywrongwitallyuhatall?'
I understand the delivery may wrankle a few noses,but they all mean the same thing.
Take a percocet, forgive and forget
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Why should he be above critique from Trinbagonians? Also when you are a professional anything it comes with the territory. If you can embrace the positives then you have to be open to the negatives that comes with it. He still can't trap to save his life or pass off a nice ball 7 out of 10time, he still sometimes lolly gags on the field and he still doesn't make consistent runs to get in better goal scoring postions. I don't think people making things up or being unfair when it comes to what are obvious limitations in his game. Nice that he scoring goals but it still doesn't take away from the limitations in his game. Chicharito as good as he has been has some holes in his game and he gets critisized for them.
Case in point. When is de last time you have seen KJ play? Because all of your classifications of KJ over the last 2 months of play are all in correck. KJ can now trap to save his life. As a matter of fact de man trappin wind right now. KJ is now making 7 out of 10 passes good versus the other way around and even has been playing the ball on the floor (thanks to the coach I believe)and KJ still lolly gags on de field. Yuh see? So there!
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I find he could always trap & pass, I know fellas who could trap and pass like no tomorrow, and still wouldn't make my O45 team, and is not because they not good, is because, we have men who could trap & pass and maybe could run too. He wasalways capable of trapping & passing as much as any other average or below average, if yuh prefer, premier league player, yet to compare him with the best premier leagues players, don't make him not capable of such skills. IMO, Getting into goal scoring positions for me was the weakest part of his game. This could have been due to lack of experience, and role of assisting the defence (at Sunderland especially) on set plays..especially, an individual, who was just learning and required coaching i.e. starting off, at this level.. I don't see how anybody could develop high caliber experience in a position, when they consistenly asked to play to many other roles. Yet, they do get some experience and gradually understand what is required of them even more. How could a man who can't trap & pass get to play in the premier league is beyond me...maybe nobody else in the league could score headers ? shim, if ah did only know ... :devil:
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when he was at Sunderland he get more wood from dem dan we ever give him here...yey he never say dat shit to dem!
Sunderland is not home. TnT is de man home breds. Trinbagonians is de man's people breds..Can you dig it?
All de T&T footballers does complain about this site...buh dey could kiss my ass..when dey playing anywhere is people here who does support de most..IN ALL SITUATIONS!
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KJ I want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina,stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. KJ if yuh feeling hot drink some fever grass and deal with Man City. Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. Ah luv this site too bad. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: KJ boy is just something about you. Yuh does just look lazy on de field. Anyways what i say doh matter once yuh score yuh good to go :devil: We want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. :rotfl: :rotfl: Tevez is ah stamina man, Roney is ah stamina man, Chicharito is ah stamina man, Messi is ah stamina man, KJ is Raster man :rotfl: :rotfl:
you talking too an internet breeze ,jones dont read the site ,so sending messages for or against him is just a futile venture .
Somebody say Jones said he dont care what the fans think about his National performances haha nice .But he cares about Stoke fans .
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KJ I want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina,stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. KJ if yuh feeling hot drink some fever grass and deal with Man City. Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. Ah luv this site too bad. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: KJ boy is just something about you. Yuh does just look lazy on de field. Anyways what i say doh matter once yuh score yuh good to go :devil: We want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. :rotfl: :rotfl: Tevez is ah stamina man, Roney is ah stamina man, Chicharito is ah stamina man, Messi is ah stamina man, KJ is Raster man :rotfl: :rotfl:
you talking too an internet breeze ,jones dont read the site ,so sending messages for or against him is just a futile venture .
Somebody say Jones said he dont care what the fans think about his National performances haha nice .But he cares about Stoke fans .
Exactly when dem and Sunderland fans wooding he ass. is not ah peep...
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???
what fans might think of our players National performances, and what they think of their national performances, is 2 completely different barrels of crab. He never say (or common sense will tell yuh meant) he don't care about his National performances, otherwise the so & so, wouldn't have hurt he foot trying to beat David James to the ball, or sit on bench for anybody, just for a free trip and many broken promises...yuh think them fellas can't afford to pay they and their family some tickets? Ah probably misunderstand...
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KJ I want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina,stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. KJ if yuh feeling hot drink some fever grass and deal with Man City. Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. Ah luv this site too bad. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: KJ boy is just something about you. Yuh does just look lazy on de field. Anyways what i say doh matter once yuh score yuh good to go :devil: We want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. :rotfl: :rotfl: Tevez is ah stamina man, Roney is ah stamina man, Chicharito is ah stamina man, Messi is ah stamina man, KJ is Raster man :rotfl: :rotfl:
you talking too an internet breeze ,jones dont read the site ,so sending messages for or against him is just a futile venture .
Somebody say Jones said he dont care what the fans think about his National performances haha nice .But he cares about Stoke fans .
Exactly when dem and Sunderland fans wooding he ass. is not ah peep...
Eint that the truth, thats why they sold his ass .
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???
what fans might think of our players National performances, and what they think of their national performances, is 2 completely different barrels of crab. He never say (or common sense will tell yuh meant) he don't care about his National performances, otherwise the so & so, wouldn't have hurt he foot trying to beat David James to the ball, or sit on bench for anybody, just for a free trip and many broken promises...yuh think them fellas can't afford to pay they and their family some tickets? Ah probably misunderstand...
yeah you did ,am sure he cares about the team ,I care to that doh mean they should pick me .Cause I will cant score shit ......just like Jones .
Look I dont mine him not caring about the site and its fans ,but a the backlash might be us returning the favor and not caring about his career.
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???
what fans might think of our players National performances, and what they think of their national performances, is 2 completely different barrels of crab. He never say (or common sense will tell yuh meant) he don't care about his National performances, otherwise the so & so, wouldn't have hurt he foot trying to beat David James to the ball, or sit on bench for anybody, just for a free trip and many broken promises...yuh think them fellas can't afford to pay they and their family some tickets? Ah probably misunderstand...
yeah you did ,am sure he cares about the team ,I care to that doh mean they should pick me .Cause I will cant score shit ......just like Jones .
Look I dont mine him not caring about the site and its fans ,but a the backlash might be us returning the favor and not caring about his career.
So If Rooney, Fergie, Wenger, Fabregas or anybody else we does support and care bout, did know bout this site, they woulda care bout we..that's why we care bout them career ? ah doh feel so, nah
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???
what fans might think of our players National performances, and what they think of their national performances, is 2 completely different barrels of crab. He never say (or common sense will tell yuh meant) he don't care about his National performances, otherwise the so & so, wouldn't have hurt he foot trying to beat David James to the ball, or sit on bench for anybody, just for a free trip and many broken promises...yuh think them fellas can't afford to pay they and their family some tickets? Ah probably misunderstand...
yeah you did ,am sure he cares about the team ,I care to that doh mean they should pick me .Cause I will cant score shit ......just like Jones .
Look I dont mine him not caring about the site and its fans ,but a the backlash might be us returning the favor and not caring about his career.
So If Rooney, Fergie, Wenger, Fabregas or anybody else we does support and care bout, did know bout this site, they woulda care bout we..that's why we care bout them career ? ah doh feel so, nah
Exactly you free to support and were free to not .
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Dem yardies will neva not consider supportin dey own no matter what he say or do. Dat is what seperates us from dem.
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far.
quite possible
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far.
quite possible
What's new we does take plaenty ting 2far.
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tell jones to start scoring goals for the national team when we play an intl and then we will shut up
otherwise take the blade that he getting and shut up
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Not sure exactly what Kenwyne said or how he said it, but part of being a professsional player is being being professional in other areas of your life. Football is entertainment/business and the perception of you and the goodwill that you build in any circle of fans helps you. Maybe we should remind Kenwyne of the reason Beckham makes the money he does still. Do your thing in your way boss, but be mindful as a businessman/athlete, that the more allies you have in your corner, and the less enemies crying you down, will always enhance your options, opportunities, and profitability. Don't let people disrespect yuh, but unlike jack warner who tell de man bout he mudder, make sure you are PROFESSIONAL in yuh response and behavior. Yuh wallet full, smile it off and be courteous, yuh above de pettiness
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Congrats on this achievement KJ, continue to fly the flag!
http://youtu.be/dYoB0x-GJsQ (http://youtu.be/dYoB0x-GJsQ)
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???
what fans might think of our players National performances, and what they think of their national performances, is 2 completely different barrels of crab. He never say (or common sense will tell yuh meant) he don't care about his National performances, otherwise the so & so, wouldn't have hurt he foot trying to beat David James to the ball, or sit on bench for anybody, just for a free trip and many broken promises...yuh think them fellas can't afford to pay they and their family some tickets? Ah probably misunderstand...
yeah you did ,am sure he cares about the team ,I care to that doh mean they should pick me .Cause I will cant score shit ......just like Jones .
Look I dont mine him not caring about the site and its fans ,but a the backlash might be us returning the favor and not caring about his career.
So If Rooney, Fergie, Wenger, Fabregas or anybody else we does support and care bout, did know bout this site, they woulda care bout we..that's why we care bout them career ? ah doh feel so, nah
Exactly you free to support and were free to not .
true dat, yet everybody hot and bothered because he say he doh care bout the 'we' who not supportin
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tell jones to start scoring goals for the national team when we play an intl and then we will shut up
otherwise take the blade that he getting and shut up
Really Stern is we leadin scorer and man real hate on him. So me eh feel that go stop d hate.
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tell jones to start scoring goals for the national team when we play an intl and then we will shut up
otherwise take the blade that he getting and shut up
Really Stern is we leadin scorer and man real hate on him. So me eh feel that go stop d hate.
I was gonna say it, but I eh bother.
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far. I have had quite a few encounters with Kenwyne and at no point in time was he disrespectful when he referred to this site.
In fact, the "worst" thing Jones ever said to me was when i asked him "how does he feel knowing that people think that he doesnt give his all for his country" and his response was "i dont care what they think".
Quite frankly, i knew where he was coming from. He meant that he prefers to focus on his own game and the coach's advice, rather than what the opinion of the masses was.
Carlos Edwards once said to me that he likes to read this site to get info on fellow pros abroad, but sometimes the amount of negativity that comes from this site is a real turn off.
Just as how racist chants from a few dozen in a crowd can make a whole stadium get branded as racist, we have a few negative posters who give this site a bad name.
ah love it!!
So because he never tell u anything bad about SW.net that means that he doh harbor any ill feelings towards this Site? Maybe if you were there in Nashville with the rest of us he would not have responded saying "I want nothing to do with all yuh" ::)
I understand yuh trying to deflect (what u perceive as) negativity directed at Kenwyne, but your view in this whole matter is at best...myopic if you actually trying to convince people that de man was never disrespectful to de fans on this site.
Now in spite of all that went down I bear no hatred whatsoever towards de fella , but like Kicker said...for him to dis an entire community because of a few posters who might (for the most part) comment about his poor touch or subdued goalscoring prowess, that's not cool.
This is a public forum where people will have varied opinions about your game, and if you as a prominent sportsman can't take criticism then maybe yuh in de wrong business if all yuh expect is people to blow sunshine up yuh tail.
Allyuh rell unfair hoss. Is Kenwayne suppose to know who motives sincere or not? How he will know who coming to him genuine from who does be constantly talkin assishness about him and simply lookin fuh him to say sumting dey could use? Is nuh like he know any ah we personally so de best approach is to actually stay away from all. Dis way he doh ha to be careful of what he say and how it geh spin. He eh ha to worry bout no kakahole talk about he so called "starboy attitude" and he doh ha to submit heself to the potential of somebody saying some assness to him that truly have no real platform to understand what he goes through.
I want to know who here has been injured and had their livlihood potentially threatened in service of sweet T&T and despite not having been paid what was promised still willing to return and serve. (To all affected) If yuh motives is not to constantly berate and chastise KJ then what does his current form have to do with Nashville?
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when he was at Sunderland he get more wood from dem dan we ever give him here...yey he never say dat shit to dem!
More f**kin schupid logic again!!!
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it woul dbe nice to see another trini be on the winners podium of an fa cup besides yorke
felts sorry for shaka when west ham faced pool
gerrard launch a jep nest seeking missile in that game and in the world cup, sometimes some players haunt a keeper
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tell jones to start scoring goals for the national team when we play an intl and then we will shut up
otherwise take the blade that he getting and shut up
Really Stern is we leadin scorer and man real hate on him. So me eh feel that go stop d hate.
stern probably throw away more goals than he score :devil:
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probably?
i see him do that in one game
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I was front and center in de whole Nashville scene. It was a gathering after the match which was to honor de team and have dem mix with supporters. De Warrior Nation had a minor role in hooking up with the T&T Embassy in DC to make it happen. Anyway, KJ was basically rude, unpleasant, and had ah sour vibes about him. It was kinda surprising to me, but I say tuh mehself dat he probably must be was feeling ah way because of de 3-0 cutass dat we did jes get. He definitely could/should have handled it better, but so it go. I ran into him another time at de W-Connection vs Red Bulls game in de Manny. Ah didn't talk tuh him, but he seemed to be in ah better mood.
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We have taken this "Kenwyne hates the sw.net" thing too far. I have had quite a few encounters with Kenwyne and at no point in time was he disrespectful when he referred to this site.
In fact, the "worst" thing Jones ever said to me was when i asked him "how does he feel knowing that people think that he doesnt give his all for his country" and his response was "i dont care what they think".
Quite frankly, i knew where he was coming from. He meant that he prefers to focus on his own game and the coach's advice, rather than what the opinion of the masses was.
Carlos Edwards once said to me that he likes to read this site to get info on fellow pros abroad, but sometimes the amount of negativity that comes from this site is a real turn off.
Just as how racist chants from a few dozen in a crowd can make a whole stadium get branded as racist, we have a few negative posters who give this site a bad name.
ah love it!!
So because he never tell u anything bad about SW.net that means that he doh harbor any ill feelings towards this Site? Maybe if you were there in Nashville with the rest of us he would not have responded saying "I want nothing to do with all yuh" ::)
I understand yuh trying to deflect (what u perceive as) negativity directed at Kenwyne, but your view in this whole matter is at best...myopic if you actually trying to convince people that de man was never disrespectful to de fans on this site.
Now in spite of all that went down I bear no hatred whatsoever towards de fella , but like Kicker said...for him to dis an entire community because of a few posters who might (for the most part) comment about his poor touch or subdued goalscoring prowess, that's not cool.
This is a public forum where people will have varied opinions about your game, and if you as a prominent sportsman can't take criticism then maybe yuh in de wrong business if all yuh expect is people to blow sunshine up yuh tail.
Allyuh rell unfair hoss. Is Kenwayne suppose to know who motives sincere or not? How he will know who coming to him genuine from who does be constantly talkin assishness about him and simply lookin fuh him to say sumting dey could use? Is nuh like he know any ah we personally so de best approach is to actually stay away from all. Dis way he doh ha to be careful of what he say and how it geh spin. He eh ha to worry bout no kakahole talk about he so called "starboy attitude" and he doh ha to submit heself to the potential of somebody saying some assness to him that truly have no real platform to understand what he goes through.
I want to know who here has been injured and had their livlihood potentially threatened in service of sweet T&T and despite not having been paid what was promised still willing to return and serve. (To all affected) If yuh motives is not to constantly berate and chastise KJ then what does his current form have to do with Nashville?
Unfair??? lol Breds I done with this issue.
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Unfair??? lol Breds I done with this issue.
Thank yuh.
See what Tallman post dey? It was a reception organized by WN and de Embassy to honor the team. Men here have short memories, or never used to go on the WN site. Man like Killa talking all kinda shit about who looking to take what and spin it how... yuh lucky ah know yuh personally tuh be a smart fella cuz right now yuh posting one setta fanboy shit talk. Kenwyne could piss on your head and yuh'll convince yuhself is rain, so it eh really have no arguing with you.
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when he was at Sunderland he get more wood from dem dan we ever give him here...yey he never say dat shit to dem!
More f**kin schupid logic again!!!
yeah is f**kin stupid logic because yuh doh agree with it, but trute is trute and Ken Jones bamsee in yuh mout!
He should apologize..de cyat hole...dat said I does still watch every game he play, wish he would score in each gameand I used to fight down Kev in de Sunderland thread for him.
He should simply say he facking sorry..and by the way..the Surgeon General issue a warning dat suck Jones ass can be hazardous tuh yuh health. :)
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Well If yuh say KJ don't read I want him to listen to this song then :devil: I like this site too bad yes! Big up to KJ. De man putting trini on de map. Bust de net!!!! Stamina, stamina, stamina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBCyIb2q4B4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsH4PHyk9yc&feature=player_embedded
quote author=Quags
KJ I want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina,stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. KJ if yuh feeling hot drink some fever grass and deal with Man City. Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. Ah luv this site too bad. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: KJ boy is just something about you. Yuh does just look lazy on de field. Anyways what i say doh matter once yuh score yuh good to go :devil: We want to see Stamina, stamina, stamina, stamina. :rotfl: :rotfl: Tevez is ah stamina man, Roney is ah stamina man, Chicharito is ah stamina man, Messi is ah stamina man, KJ is Raster man :rotfl: :rotfl:
you talking too an internet breeze ,jones dont read the site ,so sending messages for or against him is just a futile venture .
Somebody say Jones said he dont care what the fans think about his National performances haha nice .But he cares about Stoke fans .
[/quote]
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when he was at Sunderland he get more wood from dem dan we ever give him here...yey he never say dat shit to dem!
More f**kin schupid logic again!!!
yeah is f**kin stupid logic because yuh doh agree with it, but trute is trute and Ken Jones bamsee in yuh mout!
He should apologize..de cyat hole...dat said I does still watch every game he play, wish he would score in each gameand I used to fight down Kev in de Sunderland thread for him.
He should simply say he facking sorry..and by the way..the Surgeon General issue a warning dat suck Jones ass can be hazardous tuh yuh health. :)
Fisherman does talk bout fish!
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Real real big game tomorrow. As a Trini, or Caribbean player playing in the FA cup final, that is a real accomplishment.
Yorke and Shaka have done it, best of luck to a fellow Trini tomorrow.
Wrt all this about KJ and the fans, we all know Trinis is some of the biggest haters it have. You will never get everyone on your side all the time. The closest player I see who we had full love for was Latas.
This KJ situation remind me plenty of Yorke in the Villa and Man U days. Everyone had an opinion that he would never give his best for Trinidad and because of that he was not respected as much as Latas who we know came back for each and every fete match we had and light up the place for T&T.
KJ is his own big man, he hadda decide on a stance and stick to it. If he wanna hate on us the fans, so be it, thats the man choice, cause at the end of the day, in his mind, we are nothing but destructive to his development.
If he wanna try to make everybody happy, he knows what he have to do (behaviours, performances etc).
In both Yorke and Stern case, the fans were against them big time. Even Latas when he walk out on Simoes and abandon the team. Them fellas couldnt walk the streets in them days. But check what happen to all 3 - they went through their rough patch and came through in the end.
I know for Yorke, it was a calling that saw him come back to captain the team and take us to the WC. That is his legacy. Maybe KJ not at that place yet, but he should know that Trini ppl are extremely inconsistent - one minute they love ya, next minute they hate yuh.
With the status comes the responsibility, you now represent your country and you now play for a top team in England.
I will be first to admit, KJ has not impressed me in a national shirt yet. That just my humble opinion, but I will not boo him, cause under all the shortcomings on the field I see, at least I see he trying. That is all yuh could expect a man to give.
When Yorke was not taking on T&T, I couldn't care about what was his scenes for T&T, cause I know he was not trying. Remember when he did come back for the once a year game and he would be ike a fairy all over the field, steups.
But KJ was trying, real hard too, its just he might have been a little off-form, or the system we was playing was not not best for him, or sometimes yuh dunno what a man going through in life.
If he starta decline T&T then that a different story, or come back and play with no effort, yea, I could be well on my way to delivering level cuss and boo.
If yuh reading this breds, best of luck tomorrow, and if you havent started yet, sometime soon you will get an internal tug that will start eating away at you to work on your national legacy.
AT the end of the day, when you career done in 10 years time, who and where you think will mean the most to you for the rest of your life?
Take a page out of Lara book, out of Beckham book etc etc.
All the truly great footballers (except Giggs/Cantona) were known for giving their blood and soul for their country...
Good luck tomorrow!
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What if the man just had a bad day? lol
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no negativity guys ,massive game this.
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Real real big game tomorrow. As a Trini, or Caribbean player playing in the FA cup final, that is a real accomplishment.
Yorke and Shaka have done it, best of luck to a fellow Trini tomorrow.
Wrt all this about KJ and the fans, we all know Trinis is some of the biggest haters it have. You will never get everyone on your side all the time. The closest player I see who we had full love for was Latas.
This KJ situation remind me plenty of Yorke in the Villa and Man U days. Everyone had an opinion that he would never give his best for Trinidad and because of that he was not respected as much as Latas who we know came back for each and every fete match we had and light up the place for T&T.
KJ is his own big man, he hadda decide on a stance and stick to it. If he wanna hate on us the fans, so be it, thats the man choice, cause at the end of the day, in his mind, we are nothing but destructive to his development.
If he wanna try to make everybody happy, he knows what he have to do (behaviours, performances etc).
In both Yorke and Stern case, the fans were against them big time. Even Latas when he walk out on Simoes and abandon the team. Them fellas couldnt walk the streets in them days. But check what happen to all 3 - they went through their rough patch and came through in the end.
I know for Yorke, it was a calling that saw him come back to captain the team and take us to the WC. That is his legacy. Maybe KJ not at that place yet, but he should know that Trini ppl are extremely inconsistent - one minute they love ya, next minute they hate yuh.
With the status comes the responsibility, you now represent your country and you now play for a top team in England.
I will be first to admit, KJ has not impressed me in a national shirt yet. That just my humble opinion, but I will not boo him, cause under all the shortcomings on the field I see, at least I see he trying. That is all yuh could expect a man to give.
When Yorke was not taking on T&T, I couldn't care about what was his scenes for T&T, cause I know he was not trying. Remember when he did come back for the once a year game and he would be ike a fairy all over the field, steups.
But KJ was trying, real hard too, its just he might have been a little off-form, or the system we was playing was not not best for him, or sometimes yuh dunno what a man going through in life.
If he starta decline T&T then that a different story, or come back and play with no effort, yea, I could be well on my way to delivering level cuss and boo.
If yuh reading this breds, best of luck tomorrow, and if you havent started yet, sometime soon you will get an internal tug that will start eating away at you to work on your national legacy.
AT the end of the day, when you career done in 10 years time, who and where you think will mean the most to you for the rest of your life?
Take a page out of Lara book, out of Beckham book etc etc.
All the truly great footballers (except Giggs/Cantona) were known for giving their blood and soul for their country...
Good luck tomorrow!
This is ah big post Trini.. My sentiments exactly.
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What if the man just had a bad day? lol
Like you eh realize he is a representative of our country and has to put his feelings aside to mingle with the people who does cuss him regular and talk bout he first touch of ah rapist and he bein de wuss ting to wear ah tugs ::)
Man could say what dey want oui, KJ had he foot broken in ah fetematch playing for a federation that quite frankly does treat we players like shit. And to top it off still comes back when called so he is a patriot and deserves better respect than he gets here. Man does want to compare what we dishin out to dem brits buh guess wha, de british teams paying him 35K a week so I sure that does make up fuh de abuse. We federation does feed dem fry f**kin chicken an backslide on payment so I eh sure why man feel he ha to take shit from we and still smile and say thank you very much.
Best of luck yute!! Do yuh ting!!!
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It would be rel hard for me to be anything else other than sour after a 3-0 cutass. Buh dahs just me. Hope he score and dey win.
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Last trini to win a european trophy is....
...my guess is the wrexham crew winning autoglass trophy
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I does always support him...regardless of the SHIT he do we...say what..best of luck but yuh need to say sorry still...rasta head f**ker...ah should send Republic Bank security on yuh asssss.
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I does always support him...regardless of the SHIT he do we...say what..best of luck but yuh need to say sorry still...rasta head f**ker...ah should send Republic Bank security on yuh asssss.
how does a man say good luck and rast head f**ker in de same sentence. Unbelievable!
What is Schizophrenia?
Schizophrenia is a serious mental illness and patients experience progressive personality changes and a breakdown in their relationships with the outside world. They have disorganized and abnormal thinking, behaviour and language and become emotionally unresponsive or withdrawn. :o :o