ARSENAL FORWARD

[daryn]

Remember that within a football game, punishment is constituted by 2 options only.. A caution or a sending off.. That gives hardly enough leeway to protect the interests of the sport.

2 things

1. so how come people who get the yellow during the game don't seem to get further punishment afterward?
Maybe that's just my perception but anyhow I looked it up: UEFA has previously disciplined only one player for cheating a referee since the Article 10 rule was introduced three years ago.  

2. if they want to charge someone for bringing the game into disrepute they should charge them for that and not 'for deceiving the referee'.  As observer pointed out there is already a prescribed course of action for deceiving the referee on the books.

I see BnS's point about the guidelines just serving as a baseline.  that just seems to go back to the response by Arsenal:
We believe it is imperative that UEFA's explanation for its decision provides clear and comprehensive standards that will be consistently enforced.

[GunnerStunner]

of course its easy for the ignorant and biased to say wenger is just a cry baby

but

he has a vaild point, why pick on one player? because the losing side complained? well isnt that what wenger is doing? but his pleas will fall on deaf FA and FIFA ears

another valid point, UEFA and ALL football associations will need to review ALL video evidence and charge each offence for the round of games played

Nah, only for the most egregious offenses.

I'd also be careful how I toss around labels like "ignorant and biased" if I were you... when it comes to irrational partisan comments, only Small Mag worse than you on this board.

nah you have to be trying to get me vex, it have plenty more on this board , i defend my side and have i said he didnt dive? nope but the victimisation of this players is sickening, the punishment does not fit the crime, and if it is the rule, then why apply them haphazardly?
are rules only applicable based on emotion or fact?
get real ppl

[dwn]

Simply put, there's no difference between Eduardo's dive and any other player's dive - yet there is a huge difference in the punishment. I figure that's the main basis for Arsenal raising an issue with Eduardo's suspension.

Remember that within a football game, punishment is constituted by 2 options only.. A caution or a sending off.. That gives hardly enough leeway to protect the interests of the sport.

The question your comment raises is this -
Then why isn't everyone who dives given a two game suspension after the fact?

Eduardo's ban is like saying -
If you dive you get a yellow.
If you dive and the referee doesn't see it, you get a two game suspension.

[GunnerStunner]

What a week it's been for football in general, especially for Arsenal fans. We've had a media circus surrounding an incident with striker Eduardo da Silva, and we've also had our manager sent off in a high-profile match against our biggest rivals. With the media headlines once again focusing on our club, is it any surprise that as Arsenal fans we're just wondering if there is a certain amount of bias in the industry against us?

Is there a specific reason, for example, that the media have chosen to focus on Eduardo and not this? (WEST HAM V MILLWA supporter violence and pitch invasion) Surely violence in football is of a much greater concern than "diving"? Hooliganism, it would seem, has been the winner this week.

Speaking to BBC Five Live, Football Association Chief Executive Ian Watmore has said that the incident between West Ham United and Millwall should be viewed with perspective. I completely agree, but one cannot help but wonder if a quiet word has been uttered into the ears of newspaper editors nationwide. Words accompanied, for emphasis, with four numbers. 2018. Violent clashes between fans and riot police at Upton Park filled the front and back pages on Wednesday, but that was the last we had heard of it. Did someone say, "Give this any more coverage and you endanger our chances of hosting the 2018 World Cup."

Arsenal will be charged by the FA for "failing to control their players in a match", as a result of their six bookings against Manchester United. I may be wrong, but I have yet to see fines being imposed on both West Ham and Millwall for failing to control their fans, for failing to provide adequate safety and protection to spectators. The term "brushed under the carpet", comes to mind. To the journalists who were crying out for justice for Celtic in midweek, where are your cries for justice on two clubs whose fans have a known history of such violence?

By not putting pressure on the FA (like you've done on UEFA), you've encouraged this incident to be ignored and, as Watmore said, to be viewed as a "one-off". Funnily enough, Watmore also claims that England are viewed as an example when it comes to clamping down on hooliganism and chants at football matches. He said: "FIFA and UEFA and many of the associations around the world do come to us for a lead on combating violence and hooliganism, racism and other forms of chanting, and we have to remain the best in the world at combating that and remain at the top of our game." Why then, has there been no action taken against Man United for failing to stamp out that song about our manager? The one that says (and it absolutely disgusts me to write this) that he has a certain fondness for little children.

And to subject him to further abuse by sending him off for a nothing incident, is something else that the Football Association should look at.

Ironically, United 'fans' bay for blood when a certain degree of respect is not shown towards their Munich dead, but when a chant like that is part of a Man United fan's songbook, or even as a CD (this has now been taken down by Play.com but still available on Amazon), is it so hard to wonder why you do not get that moment of respect? Have you afforded the same degree of respect towards Liverpool's dead, when it comes to remembering Hillsborough?

To the media and Mr Watmore, if England really are the world's best at combating hooliganism and stamping out racism and other forms of chanting, then let's see some action taken on a club that has done nothing to eradicate this form of abuse directed at a man with a daughter old enough to understand what the word means. How will he answer, when she asks, "Why are they calling him that?"

And where are the cries of justice for Arsenal, who were once again undone by a "dive" by England's darling, Wayne Rooney. It is not the first time that Rooney has sought to "deceive" a match official in order to gain an advantage for him and his team. It's incredulous how so many "deceptions" by one player go unpunished, culminating in the most recent one against Arsenal, where his left leg begins to give way even before Manuel Almunia touches him. "Clever play, good thing he's English," is what most English pundits would say. The same thing they said when Michael Own dived to win that penalty against Argentina during the World Cup.

Here are some examples, four too many, of England's darling deceiving match officials, but receiving no retribution for it.there were videos showing rooneys dives but i couldn't link them properly

If the Football Association (and UEFA) are serious about stamping out cheats from the game, then let's make an example of the spearhead of England's attack. Make an example of Wayne Rooney.

Before we forget, let's divert our attentions to Sky and the BBC's penchant for replaying incidents that involve fouls by Arsenal players, and then for their match pundits to analyse and overanalyse said incidents. Why are these two media giants not replaying the incident below, and again putting pressure (like they did on UEFA) on the FA and referees' association to evaluate the performance of Mike Dean and his assistants? As then Wimbledon-owner Sam Hammam said in 1995, "I have to hand it to Manchester United. They have the best players ... and the best referees."


The tackle and subsequent handball should have been a red card for Fletcher. As it wasn't dealt by the referee, it's perfectly possible for the FA to step-in and review the incident post-match, unlike the incident with Eduardo, which was actually dealt with, contrary to what UEFA Chief Executive David Taylor has said: "We only look at matters of a serious nature that the referee did not see. The regulations allow for this type of action but they are only used sparingly."

No, Mr Taylor. The referee did see the incident [involving Eduardo], and he awarded the penalty to Arsenal. That should have been the end of it, but what you and your Scottish colleagues have done is introduce new precedent where an incident can be re-refereed by a video panel (whether this panel is independent or non-Scottish is up for debate). I am glad that this precedent has been set, because it should be turned into legislation for FIFA to impose on the national leagues. Then, maybe, the English FA will provide the same treatment to other clubs as they do Arsenal. Unless of course, there is a World Cup bid at stake.

I look forward to football's governing bodies, the media, Messrs Taylor and Watmore, proving me wrong.

[dinho]

2 things

1. so how come people who get the yellow during the game don't seem to get further punishment afterward?
Maybe that's just my perception but anyhow I looked it up: UEFA has previously disciplined only one player for cheating a referee since the Article 10 rule was introduced three years ago.  

Hmm, I cant say to be honest, but what i will say is this.. You ever notice when these rules come about, they pick a big team, big game or big tournament to implement? Like the tackle from behind red card before a world cup, when everyone was getting sent off?

Sometimes that is the only way to get a point across, to target on the big stage. Like I said, the fact is Eduardo's cheating was blatant, and it had far reaching ramifications.. The single play rendered the game and any chance of Celtic getting to the CL a moot point. With that you could argue any chance at millions of dollars just for qualifying and countless revenue from participation.

So yes, harsh on Eduardo and Arsenal but this might be the incident that sets the precedent, but i think it is a good one.
[/quote]

2. if they want to charge someone for bringing the game into disrepute they should charge them for that and not 'for deceiving the referee'.  As observer pointed out there is already a prescribed course of action for deceiving the referee on the books.

I see BnS's point about the guidelines just serving as a baseline.  that just seems to go back to the response by Arsenal:
We believe it is imperative that UEFA's explanation for its decision provides clear and comprehensive standards that will be consistently enforced.

Agreed.

[Observer]

2 things

1. so how come people who get the yellow during the game don't seem to get further punishment afterward?
Maybe that's just my perception but anyhow I looked it up: UEFA has previously disciplined only one player for cheating a referee since the Article 10 rule was introduced three years ago.  

Hmm, I cant say to be honest, but what i will say is this.. You ever notice when these rules come about, they pick a big team, big game or big tournament to implement? Like the tackle from behind red card before a world cup, when everyone was getting sent off?

Sometimes that is the only way to get a point across, to target on the big stage. Like I said, the fact is Eduardo's cheating was blatant, and it had far reaching ramifications.. The single play rendered the game and any chance of Celtic getting to the CL a moot point. With that you could argue any chance at millions of dollars just for qualifying and countless revenue from participation.

So yes, harsh on Eduardo and Arsenal but this might be the incident that sets the precedent, but i think it is a good one.

2. if they want to charge someone for bringing the game into disrepute they should charge them for that and not 'for deceiving the referee'.  As observer pointed out there is already a prescribed course of action for deceiving the referee on the books.

I see BnS's point about the guidelines just serving as a baseline.  that just seems to go back to the response by Arsenal:
We believe it is imperative that UEFA's explanation for its decision provides clear and comprehensive standards that will be consistently enforced.

Agreed.


[/quote]

I hope we see some consistency throughout football now, (which will never happen, especially in CONCACAF) and which quite frankly we never saw with the tackle from behind. For me a much bigger issue in the game, is player pretending to be injured. It amazes me that FIFA, UEFA turn a blind eye to this and cannot recognize that players never seem to get injured when their team is losing. Pretending to be injured is now a major delaying tactic to break the rhythm of the game, time wasting etc etc. In CONCACAF we all know who the main culprits are and it never seems to be addressed.

[GunnerStunner]

At last, a club willing to stand up and fight against the insane, bent and discredited UEFA.

Arsenal's statement over the Eduardo affair was everything we could have wished for – a complete catalogue of everything that is wrong with the warped European governing body, including its arrogant belief that it can get away with anything, just because it is a monopoly.

Let's consider what will happen now.

The UEFA "report" on the show-trial will be handed over to Arsenal tomorrow. Arsenal could just accept it (which seems impossible given the strength of their language on the web site today) or appeal.

This is where it gets tricky. If UEFA change their minds and "let Eduardo off with a warning" what will Arsenal do? The wind will be removed from the sails, and there will be less focus on their demand that every other offence not punished by the referee is dealt with subsequently.

So, in order to get this matter resolved, we need UEFA to continue with their current childish view of the world (along with their belief in their own invulnerability) and confirm the verdict.

That would then put the ball back in Arsenal's court, and Arsenal, (along I hope with everyone else) will start pelting UEFA with complaints about every single decision that is taken. The game will disintegrate – and with it UEFA – and from the ashes a new organisation will arise.

Well, OK, not quite, but it could be the start of reform.

Many major clubs (obviously not Celtic, and others in Scotland who used the SFA to start this affair, but certainly the major players in Europe) are utterly fed up with UEFA's nonsense, and would like to move away from UEFA.

This could be the step in that direction – the catalyst that drives the process of rationalisation of European football forwards.

The manager of Croatia, who always comes across to me as one of the good guys (but I could be terribly wrong there) has thrown his hat in the ring alongside Arsenal in attacking UEFA, which is a start.

[Bitter]

Gunner,  If you going to post articles/entries from somewhere else, please include the source. A link would be nice.

[GunnerStunner]

i can't even link a video or picture properly,

from now on

any thing i post that contains no gramatical or spelling erros camefrom bbc, espnsoccernet, skysports or arsenal-mania.com

does this bring down my grade point average proffesor bitter?

[GunnerStunner]

 
i notice no one commented on my reproduced post about the media and fa biasedness

no suprise, everyone knwos the FA has thier darlings, and fergie was upset when David Dein was on the FA but he's no longer with arsenal so i guess thats of for SAF

and his comments after the arsenal game were thinly veiled, he knew his side just got away with murder

[Bitter]

Man, just post the url and tell we where yuh get it from.
Yuh workin with a b-plus right now.  

[Bakes]

i can't even link a video or picture properly,

from now on

any thing i post that contains no gramatical or spelling erros camefrom bbc, espnsoccernet, skysports or arsenal-mania.com

does this bring down my grade point average proffesor bitter?

The man is right, when people read something they like to know the context.  So if you post something that has an Arsenal slant, it's good to know if it's coming from an objective source like the BBC or a partisan site like arsenal-mania.  I'm sure you can understand that if someone posts an article saying that Dwight Yorke is the "Greatest Ever!!", it makes a difference if the article was published in the Express or whether it was published in the UK Guardian.

As for posting a link... assuming you know where the URL window is, just highlight what's in there, copy and paste... presto! we have linkage.

[GunnerStunner]

there somefantastic vids of roooooney diving, that i want to link tell meh how plz

its from www.arsenal-mania.com the articles is: To the media and the FA: Have you got your priorities right?

http://arsenal-mania.com/articles/3107345/To-the-media-and-the-FA-Have-you-got-your-priorities-right.html

[Bakes]

there somefantastic vids of roooooney diving, that i want to link tell meh how plz

its from www.arsenal-mania.com the articles is: To the media and the FA: Have you got your priorities right?

http://arsenal-mania.com/articles/3107345/To-the-media-and-the-FA-Have-you-got-your-priorities-right.html

I only know How to link YouTube vids...

[DeSoWa]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HXw7Xk4hk-Q" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HXw7Xk4hk-Q</a>

Big Up!

[doc]

From Times Online
September 2, 2009
Eduardo ban the worst case of Uefa bungling, says Patrick Barclay
Times Chief Football Commentator delivers his verdict on Uefa's decision to retrospectively ban the Arsenal striker for diving. He talks to Ben Smith


Is the two-match European ban a brave judgment or a stupid one? And do Uefa have any hope of upholding this ruling?

It is a cowardly judgment that was made simply to appease the English press. Uefa will find it very difficult to show any consistency going forward.

The general principle before this incident seems to have been that there should be no retrospective judgment if a referee has seen an incident during play. But in the Eduardo case the referee did see it. Therefore, it should not have been reviewed. But it was reviewed. What that means is that Uefa has made a rod for itself, leaving the governing body in a ridiculous position.

From now on every incident of diving, even if it is spotted by the referee, will have to be punished by a two-match suspension - even if it is only a yellow card offence in the rule book. So does that mean you hand out suspensions every time a referee books a player for diving?
Related Links

    * Arsenal to appeal Eduardo’s two-game ban

    * Upright behaviour the way to stop diving

    * Arsenal plea over Eduardo set to fall on deaf ears

It is the worst piece of judicial bungling I have ever come across in all my years of covering football.

Will Uefa now come unstuck over less obvious cases of diving?

Eduardo's dive wasn't clear. It was quite a shock to return from the Champions League draw and see the incident so many witnesses had condemned. The first time I watched it was in the Sky TV studio before filming Sunday Supplement. There were four journalists there, now bear in mind you can't get four journalists to agree on anything, but we all said we couldn't be 100 per cent certain it was dive.

So how Uefa, with the benefit of the replays we saw, came to the conclusion they did is beyond belief. I can only assume the witch-hunt mentality that Arsene Wenger has alluded to has spread to Uefa, which personally I find very worrying. I have never known such a mess.

How will Uefa police this in the future?

Uefa appear to favour retrospective punishment to video assistance for referees during matches, when wrongs could actually be righted on the advice of the fourth official. But Michel Platini is against video assistance full stop, so we will see more additional assistants, known as AARs, introduced. This policy does offer hope of a substantial improvement in justice without the hazards of video, so I like the concept.

An official on the goalline may have spotted the Eduardo incident and it could have been addressed immediately.

Where does all this leave the referees?

It is very difficult for a referee to police the rules as they stand, without having to play God by getting into players' heads. There are times when there is no contact and you can see with a certain degree of certainty that was a dive but most of the time that is not the case even with the aid of video evidence.

The referees are in an extremely difficult position and Uefa have set the most dangerous precedent imaginable.

How will this play out from here?

Uefa have got two choices: what they should do is overturn their decision and allow Arsenal's appeal. But what they will do is probably reduce Eduardo's ban to one match - which is the worst outcome of all.

To take the step of admitting they have mishandled the situation is probably beyond Uefa. If they did have any honour and decency they would admit they have got this wrong. What they will probably do is uphold their ruling, maybe reducing it to a one-match ban, and then they will not touch diving again. Uefa will just hope this has the salutary effect and hope they can ride it out.

What does this mean for the wider game?

There was an incident in the Bolton Wanderers v Liverpool game on Saturday when Fernando Torres was brilliantly tackled by Zat Knight in the penalty area. The tackle was clean but slightly from behind, so Torres went over Knight's outstretched leg and took a tumble. Torres made no attempt to claim a penalty and the referee waved play on. But Knight and Gary Cahill then stood over Torres calling him a diver and we are going to get a lot more of that from now on.

Because of Uefa's ruling, those players, ie the ones calling Torres a diver, could be banned for two matches for simulation. Which means "acting with obvious intent to make any match official make an incorrect decision". So if we were going to be consistent, Knight and Cahill would be looking at a two-match ban. It is a crazy situation.

source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6818782.ece

[GunnerStunner]

From Times Online
September 2, 2009
Eduardo ban the worst case of Uefa bungling, says Patrick Barclay
Times Chief Football Commentator delivers his verdict on Uefa's decision to retrospectively ban the Arsenal striker for diving. He talks to Ben Smith


There was an incident in the Bolton Wanderers v Liverpool game on Saturday when Fernando Torres was brilliantly tackled by Zat Knight in the penalty area. The tackle was clean but slightly from behind, so Torres went over Knight's outstretched leg and took a tumble. Torres made no attempt to claim a penalty and the referee waved play on. But Knight and Gary Cahill then stood over Torres calling him a diver and we are going to get a lot more of that from now on.

Because of Uefa's ruling, those players, ie the ones calling Torres a diver, could be banned for two matches for simulation. Which means "acting with obvious intent to make any match official make an incorrect decision". So if we were going to be consistent, Knight and Cahill would be looking at a two-match ban. It is a crazy situation.

source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6818782.ece

brilliant simply brilliant, UEFA were and are impressionable, see liverpool winning  champions league but failing to qualify the for the following year

[takenoprisoners]

Djourou suffers injury blow
Gunners defender undergoes knee surgery

Last updated: 5th September 2009


Djourou: Out of action

Johan Djourou is facing up to six months on the sidelines after undergoing a knee operation.

The Arsenal defender went under the knife in Geneva on Friday, with the Swiss football federation confirming the procedure had been carried out on their official website.

The 22-year-old had been hoping to push for a regular starting berth with the Gunners this season, following the summer sale of Kolo Toure to Manchester City.
However, on the advice of medical staff, he has opted to have surgery in an effort to rid himself of a niggling ailment.

The Switzerland international was forced to pull out of his country's clash with Italy last month after struggling with a recurrence of a knee problem.

Djourou is hoping to be back in action by March 2010 and is still hopeful of being involved at next summer's World Cup finals - should Switzerland qualify.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11670_5539672,00.html

[MarylandTrini]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JtwWLaTmiic" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/JtwWLaTmiic</a>

Rooney dive on Saturday

[WestCoast]

I guess that since swan dive boy gone, belly flop man have to take over
boy rooney wha wrong wid you

[capodetutticapi]

I guess that since swan dive boy gone, belly flop man have to take over
boy rooney wha wrong wid you

nah nah nah,that was no dive.de defender pull he shut plus he step on he foot by mistake.

[GunnerStunner]

By Chris Harris
 
Arsène Wenger DID receive an apology following his sending off at Old Trafford last month.
 
The Arsenal manager was sent to the stands in the dying seconds of the 2-1 defeat against Manchester United on August 29 after kicking out at a water bottle in the technical area when Robin van Persie’s stoppage-time effort was ruled out for offside.
 
Wenger’s subsequent dismissal brought a dramatic game to a farcical conclusion and the Frenchman has since been contacted by the Head of Referees, Keith Hackett.
 
“He apologised for what happened,” explained Wenger.

“There was no bad intention behind that [bottle kicking]. It was frustration that the goal had been cancelled.

“We fought so hard in the game and for us to go home without any points was hard to take.”

[GunnerStunner]

time for epl again

bring on city, ade has some licks to get and toure will have some goals to collect

they going to be out to prove something but we are stinging from the loss at our own hads to manchester united, only thing a few players may have some international fatigue, as city dont have that many inernationals who played this week

[MarylandTrini]

Arshavin is out for 3 games, aggravating his injury playing for Russia on Wednesday.
Theo is possibly back for the Champions League game next week, but not in time for tomorrow.
Rosicky played 58 mins on Wednesday, maybe Saturday is too soon? He'll probably make the bench and come on for a 10 mins.

My team:

Almunia
Sagna Gallas Verm Clichy
Song
Denilson Fabregas
Bendtner RVP Eduardo

Bench: Mannone, Gibbs, Eboue, Senderos, Diaby, Ramsey, Rosicky

[giggsy11]

Djourou out for the season.

[dinho]

Adebayor rippin right now..

[dinho]

...... AND HE JUST POISON ALLYUH!!!

[Small Magician aka Wazza]

4-1 now.... wowzers! 

[jason23]

I HAVE JUS LOST MY REASON 2 LOVE AGAIN........MAN C-4 ARSENAL 1...WEN WILL THE PAIN GO AWAY

[Tenorsaw]

Adebeyor returns to haunt his former team...and taunts the Arsenal fans in the process.   Man City might be for real.  Hughes has them looking like a decent unit.